Episodes 6.02 The Decoupling Fluctuation (Oct. 4)

[rubyanjel]

I didn't think it was amazing, not many funny lines for me. It was touching that Sheldon was worried about Leonard. "worst bedtime story ever" made me laugh. But boy the shenny's got blown out of the water this episode. The chemistry between Penny and Sheldon was dialled down to zero and Sheldon more or less spelt it out. "I'm a big fan of homostatus" He may as well of said "I'm with Amy and would never hurt Leonard" It couldn't have been clearer. Also Penny walked away when Amy told Bernadette she plans to marry Sheldon in 4 years. This was deliberate, so she didn't pass it on to Sheldon, she's a gabby gerty. It seems most of them are, except Bernadette. So that's safe.

I think she just stood up because she went for a drink. Something normal people do. Unlike other people who read it as "Penny stood up because she would be hurt if she finds out Amy plans on marrying Sheldon." But I like your theory too.

Also, what more could you expect about their discussion? It's not there to directly refute Shenny since in the show's universe, Shenny does not exist. Their conversation is about what's happening in the show. So there's no chance they would address something that's not happening.

Really? She has called him that and worse a number of times. Penny thinks he is a wierdo.

Sheldon wasn't totally affected with what Penny called him. Howard and Leonard called him crazy. I think it's just typical.

Edited October 7, 2012 by jeanalice

[Grasshopper]

I have had the impression from some interviews that KC and JG don't really have any problem with going along the path that has been given them so far. I don't think that they think in terms of their characters being terrible people or dysfunctional people, etc.

I think that for them it's more of a roller coaster ride that's interesting to play.

It seems to me that it's only the fans, or some fans, who look at the characters in a negative way.

I agree with you completely on that matter phantagrae. These ups and downs actually pertain to the way many relationships go in real life. I have a friend in real life that has an up and down relationship that is so erratic that it makes Penny and Leonard seem perfectly normal. I won't get into details about my friend, out of respect, but trust me. It is weird. I am afraid to answer the phone when he calls me every other day because I don't know if I am goung to hear if he is planning to move out or everything is beautiful.

This segment of the show is to keep the audience in suspense, and not know what to expect, so they keep us hanging and coming back each week to see what developes next, whether it be good or bad.

If anyone wants to talk about disfuntional TV relationships, you must all look back at some of the classic sitcoms over the years. Gloria and Mike and Archie and Edith of all in The Family. Lucy and Ricky in I Love Lucy. BTW to those who don't know, they were married in real life. How about Ralph and Alice of the Honeymooners? WHOA! If you want to talk about a couple that fought a lot, top that one. Alright, all these couples were already married on the show, but that's not the point. The Big Bang Theory is unique, so get used to it.

I understand everyones point though. We all don't want to see Penny completely turn into a mean old trashy, alcoholic slut. I sure don't want to see it but it's not like there is no hope. Give it some time and things will change. I HOPE!!!

Edited October 7, 2012 by Grasshopper

[Pomita]

This isn't what I was driving at in my initial post though. I was not trying to start an old vs new debate. I was referring to the shenny discussions we have had of late. There's been talk of a foreshadowing of a shenny relationship because they mentioned them being an old married couple, and whatnot. But here we have Sheldon sitting on Penny's bed and telling her, very calmly, that he doesn't like change and regardless of her feelings he wants her to continue dating Leonard. Of course, it's just a scene about Sheldon's concern for his friend to us, but to a shenny this has to be the most anti-shenny sentiment we have ever seen.

I completely agree with you on this. But as BangerMain says.. nothing can stem their hopes. Today I see comments all over the internet saying that since Sheldon noticed Penny's shampoo, he's most definitely secretly attracted to her.

[Pomita]

I think she just stood up because she went for a drink. Something normal people do. Unlike other people who read it as "Penny stood up because she would be hurt if she finds out Amy plans on marrying Sheldon."

Really? As Sheldon would say - oh good lord.

Also, what more could you expect about their discussion? It's not there to directly refute Shenny since in the show's universe, Shenny does not exist. Their conversation is about what's happening in the show. So there's no chance they would address something that's not happening.

That's how I saw it, too. But it's also true, as Moonbase says, that this conversation did actually refute the Shenny, for anyone who can catch that logic.

[BazingaFan]

I agree -- I don't know if the writers meant to do this, but the conversation that sheldon and penny had shows that shenny is never going to happen. Sheldon loves Leonard, and he would never hurt his friend, plus he and penny do not see each other that way. I think it is crazy that people think differently.

I want more sheldon and penny scenes because they are good, but it is definitely not because there is any romance or flirting going on.

Edited October 7, 2012 by BazingaFan

[Convict13]

I completely agree with you on this. But as BangerMain says.. nothing can stem their hopes. Today I see comments all over the internet saying that since Sheldon noticed Penny's shampoo, he's most definitely secretly attracted to her.

I told you so back when I read the report, Shenny's around the world would take the fact that he noticed her shampoo to mean that he has feelings for her. I think the writers do this sort of thing on purpose, and they have a little giggle.

[BangerMain]

Thank you for the explaination regarding the actor protocol for their roles they play. Therefore, the fault for the past years of subpar storelines and writing falls directly and precisely on Lorre and the witers. No mater what the protocol is, actors are human. They want to be aclaimed by their fans and peers, be nominated for an emmy for instance. That never would and didn't happen in the last two plus years with what Kaley had to work with. So as a good actress she just took one for the team and didn't / wouldn't say anything. How very commendable.

The only thing I recall Kaley saying this summer on what has happend to Penny over the last two season is that she misses the days when she was the only girl on the show. That says volumes without criticzing the producers since the addition of Amy and Bernie cooresponds to the time her character started to dissintegrate into the mess we have now and the other female characters became the relationship focus. She used to comment about what she wants for Leonard and Penny (married with babies) but now says you never know where the genius of Chuck Lorre will take them. Johnny now says the same thing so someone must have reminded them of whose the boss.

Kaley is very Internet savy and you know she has heard the negative comments about the Penny character from the fans but more importantly she is now surpasssed in the industry media buzz for the show that she stars, by a supporting actress, Mayim. That's got to hurt.

Kaley is not going to say anything in public that will break ranks with the party line but I got a feeling that she and Johnny were quietly in the background encouraging the massive overhaul of Penny that is occurring in the episodes that have been taped so far.

Edited October 7, 2012 by BangerMain

[DPK]

Sheldon noticing the Shampoo would just be a normal thing he'd notice. He's notice other little oddities like that but we've talked about the Shenny's way twisting every little thing.

As for Leonard being too needy. If wanting to be loved and valued by the other person that you're in a relationship with is being too needy, then everybody who's ever been in a committed relationship is too needy then, because that is what everybody wants, that's if they are really honest with themselves. It's a basic human need and Leonard seems to be the only character that is criticized for it. It amazes me.

He's not constantly harassing and pushing Penny to say "ILY" or anything or to force Penny into doing something she doesn't want to do. He simply wants to be able to have a open and honestly relationship with her where the communication lines are open and he's not getting that at all. Like any reasonable person he is frustrated.

Penny for her part is not holding up her end of things. She NEVER wants to talk about any of the issues, she DOESN'T communicate with him about how she's really feeling and going by the information this episode provides it is very clear that Leonard is much more invested in the relationship than she is. Her almost completely insincere answers to Amy/Bernadette's questions in the beginning of it punctuates this reality.

I could get behind the argument that maybe Leonard pushes too hard at times if Penny was ever shown to be willing to really discuss these issues but she isn't. NO TIME is ever a good time for her so really, what is Leonard supposed to do? If he does nothing then he gets slammed for being a spineless pushover, if he actually does something and confronts her then he's being too pushy and needy. He can't win either way.

The only thing I recall Kaley saying this summer on what has happend to Penny over the last two season is that she misses the days when she was the only girl on the show. That says volumes without criticzing the producers since the addition of Amy and Bernie cooresponds to the time her character started to dissintegrate into the mess we have now and the other female characters became the relationship focus. She used to comment about what she wants for Leonard and Penny (married with babies) but now says you never know where the genius of Chuck Lorre will take them. Johnny now says the same thing so someone must have reminded them of whose the boss.

Kaley is very Internet savy and you know she has heard the negative comments about the Penny character from the fans but more importantly she is now surpasssed in the industry media buzz for the show that she stars, by a supporting actress, Mayim. That's got to hurt.

Kaley is not going to say anything in public that will break ranks with the party line but I got a feeling that she and Johnny were quietly in the background encouging the massive overhaul of Penny that is occurring in the episodes that have been taped so far.

I could see this being the case. I really feel for Kaley. Mayim and Melissa are great performers but the additions of Bernadette and Amy have really made a huge cut in Penny's screentime. That cut in screentime limits the development for her character, which since the begining had always been very limited anyway. This only compounds the problem.

It's a hard thing because Chuck Lorre really has a nasty view of women and general and it always manages to find it's way into his shows. It also doesn't help that the guy has a massive ego that doesn't look like it will be getting checked anytime soon. He's arguaby the most powerful man working in television right now. He has three hit shows running at the same time.

Edited October 7, 2012 by DPK

[rubyanjel]

Sheldon noticing the Shampoo would just be a normal thing he'd notice. He's notice other little oddities like that but we've talked about the Shenny's way twisting every little thing.

As for Leonard being too needy. If wanting to be loved and valued by the other person that you're in a relationship with is being too needy, then everybody who's ever been in a committed relationship is too needy then, because that is what everybody wants, that's if they are really honest with themselves. It's a basic human need and Leonard seems to be the only character that is criticized for it. It amazes me.

He's not constantly harassing and pushing Penny to say "ILY" or anything or to force Penny into doing something she doesn't want to do. He simply wants to be able to have a open and honestly relationship with her where the communication lines are open and he's not getting that at all. Like any reasonable person he is frustrated.

Penny for her part is not holding up her end of things. She NEVER wants to talk about any of the issues, she DOESN'T communicate with him about how she's really feeling and going by the information this episode provides it is very clear that Leonard is much more invested in the relationship than she is. Her almost completely insincere answers to Amy/Bernadette's questions in the beginning of it punctuates this reality.

I could get behind the argument that maybe Leonard pushes too hard at times if Penny was ever shown to be willing to really discuss these issues but she isn't. NO TIME is ever a good time for her so really, what is Leonard supposed to do? If he does nothing then he gets slammed for being a spineless pushover, if he actually does something and confronts her then he's being too pushy and needy. He can't win either way.

God. Thank you. This is what I've been telling people about Leonard recently. It's either those people are numb and are naive but he isn't pushing Penny. Episode 1, it's Raj who became the audience's voice during his drunk moment. Episode 2, it's ironic Amy has a more stable relationship than Penny and that Bernie and Amy are the ones calling Penny off on her shit.

[vasu]

Sheldon noticing the Shampoo would just be a normal thing he'd notice. He's notice other little oddities like that but we've talked about the Shenny's way twisting every little thing.

You're right. In fact Sheldon also noticed Leonard's testicles in season 4. I wonder why the Shelnard's(if any) did not notice it and twist it

Edited October 7, 2012 by vasu

[Pomita]

You're right. In fact Sheldon also noticed Leonard's testicles in season 4. I wonder why the Shelnard's(if any) did not notice it and twist it

Good point. :D

[BangerMain]

This is what I've been telling people about Leonard recently. It's either those people are numb and are naive but he isn't pushing Penny. Episode 1, it's Raj who became the audience's voice during his drunk moment. Episode 2, it's ironic Amy has a more stable relationship than Penny and that Bernie and Amy are the ones calling Penny off on her shit.

Steve Molaro, the head writer, said this summer that Leonard's friends, mainly Bernadette and Amy, would be the catalyst for "maturing" Penny this season. The format seems to be: first have one of Leonard's friends state the problem in her behaviour to her. Then have her try to explain her actions. Then she thinks about why she does this.

They now have her working on two issues after two episodes (The "ILY" problem brought up by Raj and the irrational breakups with Leonard, from questioning by Bernie, Amy and Sheldon). Next week will bring another problem for her to solve. And according to the taping reports, the hits keep coming.

Still, this leaves Leonard as an oddly passive bystander in his own relationship. Yes, he's the beneficiary of his friends efforts but in this episode he had no idea why he started getting sex from Penny or that her original intent was to breakup with him again. Is he going to wake up one day and wonder why he's suddenly married to Penny? Maybe in the second half of the season Leonard will grow a pair and not need "a little help from his friends".

Edited October 7, 2012 by BangerMain

[Moonbase]

You're right. In fact Sheldon also noticed Leonard's testicles in season 4. I wonder why the Shelnard's(if any) did not notice it and twist it

...and that Leslie Winkle had started shaving her legs

As for Leonard being too needy, he just wants some reassurance and given the time they have known each other it's perfectly reasonable.

I completely agree with you on this. But as BangerMain says.. nothing can stem their hopes. Today I see comments all over the internet saying that since Sheldon noticed Penny's shampoo, he's most definitely secretly attracted to her.

*snicker* They are both super cute so I get that side of it. But how they focus on Sheldon noticing a shampoo smell and conveniently forget the two minutes dialogue which shot their dream to hell, is beyond me. Maybe I should do a shenny comic strip at some point. See what happens...

Edited October 7, 2012 by Moonbase

[Jacks]

Been reading up on various thoughts about Leonard seemingly coming across as "needy"

Like was stated by DPK, we all are "needy" in one way or another so that shouldn't be seen as faulty imo...

But with the relationship with his mom, that was shown in many episodes in earlier seasons, I don't find it strange at all. He has had no real affection from his parents/ mom if we are to believe what they told us in the stories his mom visited. She had a closer relationship with Sheldon....So if people see his trying to evolve in a relationship, as "needy", I think they would react the same way if they had his childhood.

[mjc45]

Steve Molaro, the head writer, said this summer that Leonard's friends, mainly Bernadette and Amy, would be the catalyst for "maturing" Penny this season. The format seems to be: first have one of Leonard's friends state the problem in her behaviour to her. Then have her try to explain her actions. Then she thinks about why she does this.

They now have her working on two issues after two episodes (The "ILY" problem brought up by Raj and the irrational breakups with Leonard, from questioning by Bernie, Amy and Sheldon). Next week will bring another problem for her to solve. And according to the taping reports, the hits keep coming.

Still, this leaves Leonard as an oddly passive bystander in his own relationship. Yes, he's the beneficiary of his friends efforts but in this episode he had no idea why he started getting sex from Penny or that her original intent was to breakup with him again. Is he going to wake up one day and wonder why he's suddenly married to Penny? Maybe in the second half of the season Leonard will grow a pair and not need "a little help from his friends".

agree-you just beat me to it. everyone is tying to get

penny with leonard, i saw molaro talk about it,

outside force could get them together, any one think

it is wil wheaton who is comming on in esp.#7 or 8.

he did break them up in season #3

[SodidIwin?]

Steve Molaro, the head writer, said this summer that Leonard's friends, mainly Bernadette and Amy, would be the catalyst for "maturing" Penny this season. The format seems to be: first have one of Leonard's friends state the problem in her behaviour to her. Then have her try to explain her actions. Then she thinks about why she does this.

They now have her working on two issues after two episodes (The "ILY" problem brought up by Raj and the irrational breakups with Leonard, from questioning by Bernie, Amy and Sheldon). Next week will bring another problem for her to solve. And according to the taping reports, the hits keep coming.

Still, this leaves Leonard as an oddly passive bystander in his own relationship. Yes, he's the beneficiary of his friends efforts but in this episode he had no idea why he started getting sex from Penny or that her original intent was to breakup with him again. Is he going to wake up one day and wonder why he's suddenly married to Penny? Maybe in the second half of the season Leonard will grow a pair and not need "a little help from his friends".

Leonard needs to “let it be” for now and let Penny come to terms with her feelings for him. Therefore, in the meantime she has to “carry that weight” with “ a little help form her friends”. However at the end of the day I believe they “will come together”! Then one night when they are both in bed she will turn to him and whisper “do you want to know a secret?” He will say yes, and at that time she will say “I want to tell you” “I want you” “in my life” forever and that I Love You!

[DPK]

The issue is that any time Leonard confronts her about something or asks about the status of where they are in the relationship he is constantly mocked for being too needy or whiney and a lot of other adjectives from people.

Again what these people are typically refusing to acknowledge or are simply letting it go over their heads is the real reason for it. The fact that Penny doesn't clue him in on anything regarding her real feelings. I can't stress this enough either but Penny NEVER wants to be open or discuss anything when it comes to how she's either really feeling in regards to where their relationship is and or is going or when it comes to discussing any of the issues and problems that they have. How can you reasonbley expect Leonard to behave when he's faced with Penny's constant stonewalling. These are issues that they have to work out, they won't work themselves out and Leonard is the only one in this relationship that wants to do the work.

If Penny would actually open up to him for a change he wouldn't have to put any kind of pressure on her at all. Despite overexaggerated claims made by others he's hardly pesturing all the time either. He hasn't prestured her into an "ILY". Raj is the one who brough that up in the premiere and the only thing Leonard did was confirm that she hadn't told him. In this episode it was Amy and Bernadette.

Whenever Leonard does bring it up he's being a whiney, needy, insecure child. When he doesn't say anything he's a balless, spinless man who needs to "grow a pair". He can't be both at the same time. Leonard isn't being unreasonable and if Penny actually put half the effort into the relationship that he is and would just be open with him he wouldn't needed to bring it up at all nor would Penny's friends need to constantly point out to her that she needs to get her crap together.

[Puppy Chow]

Maybe I should do a shenny comic strip at some point. See what happens...

FWIW, I approve of this idea. :D

[Moonbase]

FWIW, I approve of this idea. :D

Uh-oh.

[BangerMain]

Leonard needs to “let it be” for now and let Penny come to terms with her feelings for him. Therefore, in the meantime she has to “carry that weight” with “ a little help form her friends”. However at the end of the day I believe they “will come together”! Then one night when they are both in bed she will turn to him and whisper “do you want to know a secret?” He will say yes, and at that time she will say “I want to tell you” “I want you” “in my life” forever and that I Love You!

Brilliant! "Regards, From me to You".

Edited October 7, 2012 by BangerMain

[BangerMain]

The issue is that any time Leonard confronts her about something or asks about the status of where they are in the relationship he is constantly mocked for being too needy or whiny and a lot of other adjectives from people.

Again what these people are typically refusing to acknowledge or are simply letting it go over their heads is the real reason for it. The fact that Penny doesn't clue him in on anything regarding her real feelings. I can't stress this enough either but Penny NEVER wants to be open or discuss anything when it comes to how she's either really feeling in regards to where their relationship is and or is going or when it comes to discussing any of the issues and problems that they have. How can you reasonably expect Leonard to behave when he's faced with Penny's constant stonewalling. These are issues that they have to work out, they won't work themselves out and Leonard is the only one in this relationship that wants to do the work.

If Penny would actually open up to him for a change he wouldn't have to put any kind of pressure on her at all. Despite over exaggerated claims made by others he's hardly pesturing all the time either. He hasn't pestered her into an "ILY". Raj is the one who brought that up in the premiere and the only thing Leonard did was confirm that she hadn't told him. In this episode it was Amy and Bernadette.

Whenever Leonard does bring it up he's being a whiny, needy, insecure child. When he doesn't say anything he's a balless, spineless man who needs to "grow a pair". He can't be both at the same time. Leonard isn't being unreasonable and if Penny actually put half the effort into the relationship that he is and would just be open with him he wouldn't needed to bring it up at all nor would Penny's friends need to constantly point out to her that she needs to get her crap together.

Excellent analysis!

What I and other fans forget is that the writer's have pretty much written Leonard into a no win situation. Leonard's friends have to be his surrogates to Penny because she won't talk to him about her feelings..All these things that should be simple conversations between a couple are unavailable to Leonard since he knows she will either shutdown or explode. That's why the writers are using this tactic of having the friends talk for Leonard. If he tried to do this there would be a lot of her screaming and slamming doors. It is frustrating that he has to tiptoe around her as if she were a mine field.

if Leonard "grew a pair" as many of us have suggested and Penny is the way she is now, he would have been long gone. If Leonard was truly like 95% of men, he would have no reason to take this abuse from Penny since he has already gotten from her all that she currently has to offer, many, many times. The Lenny would be over as he would have followed the pattern of every other man in her life and hit the flush handle.

So for the sake of the premise of the series this is the best that can be done for Leonard until they finish with Penny repairs this season.

Edited October 7, 2012 by BangerMain

[Pomita]

Maybe I should do a shenny comic strip at some point. See what happens...

Should be interesting.

I agree that all my sympathies are with Leonard at this point. I can sort of understand where Penny is coming from - she's trying to sort out a rather unsightly mess of immature misconceptions about love and relationships - but she certainly isn't behaving well with him. Two years back, in season 3 when she broke up with him, I did feel that Leonard was being too pushy about the ILY. But after so much water has flown under the bridge, now, at least, he's entitled to feel that he deserves something more definite from her. Or at least more openness and willingness to communicate. They seem to fall into the classic relationship problem of 'talking on eggshells' every time he tries to bring up the topic of what's between them.

[rubyanjel]

Yep, I'm aware of what the spoiler entails but I just wanted to say how I'm so sick of people who are so protective of Penny that Leonard's been pushing her and pressuring her to admit her feelings. It's sad that he doesn't have a side where he'd win because others will keep on judging him and claim that he's needy and greedy. I mean, if I were to have a boyfriend, I'd someone like Leonard who is willing to discuss these kinds of issues and don't just let them hang in the air. I feel so sorry for him whenever people call him a royal jerk just because he simply wanted to know what his partner is feeling in their relationship so they can solve it while they still can.

[Europa]

Two years back, in season 3 when she broke up with him, I did feel that Leonard was being too pushy about the ILY. But after so much water has flown under the bridge, now, at least, he's entitled to feel that he deserves something more definite from her. Or at least more openness and willingness to communicate.

Totally agree. Back then, he was being pushy. At this point, I'm proud of him for pushing the issue. He wants to know how she feels, and he deserves to know! I think he feels that she loves him and is just having a hard time verbalizing it (when in fact, sadly, it seems from the last episode that maybe she doesn't love him after all). I personally am glad that he's not just letting it go. At this point, after everything they've been through, he needs to know if he should continue to hold this torch for her or just give it up and find a woman who really appreciates him - and isn't afraid to say it.

Penny should know this, incidentally. She's met Leonard's mother, she knows he once built a machine to give himself hugs (!) - Leonard is a man who needs affirmation and acceptance.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Europa

[Leonard + Penny]

This episode was better than last weeks but still "lame"

Sheldon had his moments I guess. I laughed when he said the words "hubba, hubba" I also laughed when he called himself a romantic.

I cant believe Amy is already planning their marriage, 4 years, so specific...she creeps me out

I found it funny that Sheldon was so concerned about the status of Leonard and Penny's relationship. Hasn't he always been against it and even told Leonard he was chasing an impossible dream?

And if it wasn't official already, it now is. The show has sold out. My worst fear came true, they changed the intro and added Amy and Bernadette. So much for an idea of finding a unique way of killing them off

Lenny is becoming annoying. Mainly Penny. You wonder why that girl is a trainwreck. She's so unsure of everything and puts herself in bad situations. Then cries when it goes badly, reminds me of girls in HS, lol. She's taking Leonard for a ride. Here hes trying and just wants to talk about things but she won't give him the time of day. I think I would rather the girl of my dreams dump me honestly than lead me on a wild goose chase where at days end I have no shot.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Leonard + Penny