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6.05 The Holographic Excitation (Oct. 25)


Tripper
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But if you consider the ages of these characters, by the time they would have seen them, the view toward them was a bit different. I was about a junior in high school when the first film came out--and I'm 13 years older than Jim Parsons. Assuming that Sheldon is the same age as JP, he would have been about 4 or so. Now, Sheldon might have seen them at that age ;) , but Amy probably would not.

I think they had a wider appeal back in the day because they were kind of billed as old-school adventure, but over the years they've kind of been pushed into that sci-fi corner.

But Star Wars is so accessible. It's got everything, it's funny, it's got a great story, with love and comradery and you don't have to a nerd to like it. I was young when it came out but my parents were into it and I've watched it many times over the years. The whole franchise was a phenomena. I was shocked Amy didn't like it. The gasp came from me!! :mellow:

If I saw that film in someone collection I wouldn't say that person must be a nerd. If I saw Star Trek… well thats a different matter! :icon_cheesygrin:

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But Star Wars is so accessible. It's got everything, it's funny, it's got a great story, with love and comradery and you don't have to a nerd to like it. I was young when it came out but my parents were into it and I've watched it many times over the years. The whole franchise was a phenomena. I was shocked Amy didn't like it. The gasp came from me!! :mellow:

If I saw that film in someone collection I wouldn't say that person must be a nerd. If I saw Star Trek… well thats a different matter! :icon_cheesygrin:

Oh, I agree that Star Wars isn't just for nerds, BUT, that doesn't mean that some people don't consider it so, especially in a case like Amy's. If her parents weren't into it--and her mother didn't seem like the Star Wars sort--then she might easily have dismissed it and never bothered to see it, or maybe she might have seen bits and pieces on TV or whatever. But there are people out there for whom it holds no appeal. What can ya do?

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And the sex-addict in Penny instead of discussing what the frack is her real deal with Leonard is what's truly annoying and highly unlikable in other people's opinion. Thought the sapiosexual in her is kind of good for Leonard.

That sapiosexual angle is something we have seen in Penny before and it explains her sexual fascination with Leonard. She loves his intellect and she jumps him when he displays it for her:

- the snowflake from the North Pole preserved in plastic.

- the heavy gas that deepens her voice.

- the Holographic display of the galaxy.

Each "trick" gets her so hot for Leonard she literally jumps him.

Because Leonard also treats her like a goddess, it seems to only work for him. It looks like Leonard has finally figured this out when he left the Tardis booth after explaining the Theory of Relativity to her, twice :icon_biggrin:

Edited by BangerMain

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That sapiosexual angle is something we have seen in Penny before and it explains her sexual fascination with Leonard. She loves his intellect and she jumps him when he displays it for her:

- the snowflake from the North Pole preserved in plastic.

- the heavy gas that deepens her voice.

- the Holographic display of the galaxy.

Each "trick" gets her so hot for Leonard she literally jumps him.

Because Leonard also treats her like a goddess, it seems to only work for him. It looks like Leonard has finally figured this out when he left the Tardis booth after explaining the Theory of Relativity to her, twice :icon_biggrin:

I always thought she was touched by the gesture of the snowflake more than the preservation of it. ?

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I think the writers are thinking like Nerds want the Sexually Alpha Girl to combat their own fears of Woman and sex. Therefore Penny is the sexually active mooch that Sheldon makes her out to be. BTW some said something about Priya sleeping with an old boy friend. Let us not forget Penny slept with Leonard's friend Raj in Leonard's Bed. I think I could be more forgiving of Priya being 1/2 way around the world and Not Engaged etc than Penny for sleeping with one one my best Friends who I had to face every day. BTW Fact is the explanation or details of Raj and Penny's encounter didn't make it sound much better. They might not of had Coitus but only because Raj was too early.

While Leonard wasn't thrilled that this happened, he has put that incident behind him is because he was in a committed relationship with Priya at the time the incident occured and both Raj and Penny were single. He really can't hold that against them and technically no real betrayal had occured from either Raj nor Penny. Priya on the other hand legitimately cheated on him. She had sex with an ex while in a committed albeit long distance relationship with him.

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Spot on; if we had a betting pool I'd bet on your scenario; Leonard initiates the break up. Priya coming back; I can see that for the season finale. Very clever & as Raj's sister she's tied to the group. Plus she's fun antagonizing Sheldon. I enjoy her character.

As for the Einstein costume; well I now think perhaps that's the writers' point: Penny and Leonard didn't think to go as a couple. It is fun to guess. Last season ended happily with everyone holding hands, season 6 started badly; Penny wanting to end it, Sheldon outsourcing his date. So repairs to relationships all this season. Then season finale - the relationships, L/P & perhaps S/A in trouble.

Indeed, they're doing the ol' switcheroo.

Season 4 ended with Raj and Penny "sleeping" together, and L/P being almost thrashed to bits, while H/B got into thin ice, when Bernadette gave Howard the rolex watch. S/A was merely the same as always.

Season 5 started as season 4 ended, with relationships being on thin ice, but as the season went on all the relations were semented. However, near the end of season 5, L/P and S/A got into trouble again, when Leonard proposed and Amy trying to increase Sheldon's feelings for her. In the end, though, the relationships seemed to be good again at the handholding scene.

Season 6 started with L/P and S/A being terribly insecure, and for every episode we now have seen, these two relationships have gotten safer and safer. It would be smart to guess what you guess, annieogly, as it seems to be a pattern here.

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I was thinking more of "I don't want to go as characters in a movie I don't even like" and "I want people to know I have a boyfriend" or something like that. The nagging, sex-starved version of Amy is just creepy and unlikable, in my opinion.

I dislike what the writers have done to both Amy and Penny; one is the ' sex-starved, demanding shrew' and the other 'the slutty girlfriend'. Meanwhile I bet Bernadette will be 'the mother'. Howard becomes the 'domesticated' male, Sheldon is on his way & Leonard the 'needy insecure whiner' who needs a hot girlfriend to validate his self worth. It's such a tired bag of couples cliches. Hey it's the 21st century men and women can interact outside the box; especially with a group of brilliant nerds. I don't care who is with whom -just do the relationship angle in a fresh way. The show is so funny with the nerdy science stuff & all the fun games, but once we hit relationship valley it's awful.

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I dislike what the writers have done to both Amy and Penny; one is the ' sex-starved, demanding shrew' and the other 'the slutty girlfriend'. Meanwhile I bet Bernadette will be 'the mother'. Howard becomes the 'domesticated' male, Sheldon is on his way & Leonard the 'needy insecure whiner' who needs a hot girlfriend to validate his self worth. It's such a tired bag of couples cliches. Hey it's the 21st century men and women can interact outside the box; especially with a group of brilliant nerds. I don't care who is with whom -just do the relationship angle in a fresh way. The show is so funny with the nerdy science stuff & all the fun games, but once we hit relationship valley it's awful.

If you can get enough viewers to agree with your assessment, TPTB will change the story lines. That is what this season is all about, changes in the characters to appease the bulk of the audience for ever increasing ratings.

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If you can get enough viewers to agree with your assessment, TPTB will change the story lines. That is what this season is all about, changes in the characters to appease the bulk of the audience for ever increasing ratings.

I know you're absolutely right.

Star Trek had only 3 seasons and now it's beyond classic because it dared to be different. *sigh* I wish Chuck Lorre would channel some Gene Rodenberry.

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While there are things about Penny that I find annoying - she's far too confused about Leonard, and seems to be taking him granted at times - I fail to understand how she is still being called 'slutty'. The last time she had a sexual relationhship with anyone other than Leonard was, what, more than 2 years back? And she's been single for most of those 2 years. Sounds like a strange definition of a slut, to me.

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While there are things about Penny that I find annoying - she's far too confused about Leonard, and seems to be taking him granted at times - I fail to understand how she is still being called 'slutty'. The last time she had a sexual relationhship with anyone other than Leonard was, what, more than 2 years back? And she's been single for most of those 2 years. Sounds like a strange definition of a slut, to me.

The "big lie" of TBBT is Penny's sluttiness. It's all talk and no action. Since mid-way through the second season the only person besides Leonard that Penny is implied to have had sex with is Zack in season three. The only person we have seen her in bed with is Raj. She even complained in season one about going six months without sex and in season four Bernie and Amy took her out to find her a "hiney to bite" to stop her from moping about Leonard. When she finally reunited with Leonard last season they did not have sex for four months as she tested him.

After the season three break up there has been plenty of talk about her sex habits but we have mainly seen her without anyone, except Leonard.

Edited by BangerMain
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I just don't see how Penny is acting "slutty" at all. Like BangerMain stated since the break up in season 3 she has had very few guys showing a up at her apartment. I think she knew right after she broke up with Leonard she had made a mistake but then it was to late and we all know she has a difficult time communicating her feelings. Now in season 6 she is working on the issues she feels in her mind are important in a relationship and with the help of her friends are addressing them. As for her and Leonard having sex all the time...what's wrong with that? She's happy and Leonard is very happy! They are having a very healthy sex life, which is a good thing. Now will their relationship hit some bumps? Certainly but I just don't see them breaking up. Whether Penny knows it for sure now or not and I think she clearly does she wants Leonard and no one else. (What sold me was her beautiful, loving look to Leonard just before she kissed him in the first lab scene.) But one thing is for certain, Penny is not a slut in season 6. What L/P are having is a very healthy sex life. Penny is simply learning more about Leonard and her own feelings along the way.

Edited by SodidIwin?
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While it's true that all the sex talk surrounding Penny is only talk no action...And I know they are meant to be jokes....but I feel the writers went a bit too far with those comments particularly from Sheldon...

no of men she slept with....her promiscuity....physical actions for money etc etc

Penny herself has not been helping the the case with comments like in season 5 premier where she mentioned that her and Amy had to drive to a place where no one had seen her naked..they had to drive too far....And something regarding sleeping with 2 brothers(which was really gross)

But all these hints imply that she was kind of slutty before...

But as someone already mentioned there is nothing wrong having sex with her boyfriend all the time...when they don't have a problem they why should we :p

And If I remember correctly both Leonard and Penny did not have sex in season 5 right??

Edited by vasu
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While it's true that all the sex talk surrounding Penny is only talk no action...And I know they are meant to be jokes....but I feel the writers went a bit too far with those comments particularly from Sheldon...

no of men she slept with....her promiscuity....physical actions for money etc etc

Penny herself has not been helping the the case with comments like in season 5 premier where she mentioned that her and Amy had to drive to a place where no one had seen her naked..they had to drive too far....And something regarding sleeping with 2 brothers(which was really gross)

But all these hints imply that she was kind of slutty before...

But as someone already mentioned there is nothing wrong having sex with her boyfriend all the time...when they don't have a problem they why should we :p

And If I remember correctly both Leonard and Penny did not have sex in season 5 right??

Just with each other when Leonard proposed to Penny. Although Leonard tried to have on-line sex with the woman from India but that didn't go very well! :) then he wanted to have sex with Alice but he was a 1 woman man and would never cheat. Vasu you are correct though that the writers through Sheldon's, Penny's and even Mary Cooper's comments have given Penny that reputation.

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I know you're absolutely right.

Star Trek had only 3 seasons and now it's beyond classic because it dared to be different. *sigh* I wish Chuck Lorre would channel some Gene Rodenberry.

They've opted for ratings and money over originality. I can totally understand why they did it but it's sad to see the uniqueness of the show buried under layer upon layer of emotional dreck. As someone else said out here a while ago - they're boldly going where everyone has gone before. It's now just an above average romantic relationship show.

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They've opted for ratings and money over originality. I can totally understand why they did it but it's sad to see the uniqueness of the show buried under layer upon layer of emotional dreck. As someone else said out here a while ago - they're boldly going where everyone has gone before. It's now just an above average romantic relationship show.

Yes, I'm sure they had a meeting where they said, "You know, this sciency stuff isn't getting us enough ratings. Let's just write about romances now so that the rest of the world will start watching. Here--I have the "hit sitcom secret formula" right here in my briefcase!!"

I see no line of demarcation. I think that people were already hearing about the show and started watching it even before there was any perceived shift. And since the writers would have started down any path they were taking well before the ratings started to climb, I don't see it as some kind of direct relation.

The reason it's a hit is not just because of relationship stories. You can tell all the relationship stories you want and still not have a hit series.

The reason people keep coming back is because they love these characters and enjoy the various quirks of the show. Yeah, the show has mellowed some compared to the early seasons, but it's also somewhat less silly and a litle more humanized.

I still don't think that's the reason for the ratings continuing to go up. It's just funny and sweet and people dig it.

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They've opted for ratings and money over originality. I can totally understand why they did it but it's sad to see the uniqueness of the show buried under layer upon layer of emotional dreck. As someone else said out here a while ago - they're boldly going where everyone has gone before. It's now just an above average romantic relationship show.

The problem is it's impossible to have truly unique comedies (or dramas for that matter) on network TV. That is the purview of cable now which will allow quirky setups for targeted audiences (Louis C K or VP). Network TV shows need support from larger viewer groups who do not normally expect wide deviations from the what they have seen before. They do not want to be puzzled by situations that require stretching their experience base.

That's the way of popular culture. Few people want to be challenged when they want to be entertained, they want entertainment to be an escape from life's challenges. And if a comedy makes them work to understand a joke's reference, that's not entertainment. That's the constraint that a network comedy has to work with.

I like comedies that are off center but I think that TBBT has done a great job of keeping me and the larger masses that want familiar routines, happy in their big tent.

Edited by BangerMain
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Yes, I'm sure they had a meeting where they said, "You know, this sciency stuff isn't getting us enough ratings. Let's just write about romances now so that the rest of the world will start watching. Here--I have the "hit sitcom secret formula" right here in my briefcase!!"

I

That's probably more accurate than you think.

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Yeah, the show has mellowed some compared to the early seasons, but it's also somewhat less silly and a litle more humanized.

I used to complain about TBBT turning into a clown show, with the emphasis on laughing at the characters, instead of with the characters. How wrong I was. It's less silly now. :icon_rolleyes: That's why we have clown suits (smurf costume) endless sight gags instead of tight comedic writing, and to top it off, pie in the face, a typical clown stunt if ever there was one. No 2 year old would understand the first 3 seasons of TBBT but every 2 year old loves a pie to the face. I welcome the new target audience, 2 year olds! Maybe that explains the pro Shenny thread.

The ruthless mocking of Howard's space adventure has really turned my stomach.

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The ruthless mocking of Howard's space adventure has really turned my stomach.

I totally agree, they could have made Howard's space adventure really funny, instead of mother vs wife jokes. It was a treasure throve of a story! What other TV sitcom character goes to the international space station? None! Now they are just mocking him over it, when all his friends should be obsessed by it and asking a dozen nerdy questions. I really don't get why they even bothered sending him.

Edited by Moonbase

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As I see it, TBBT has ALWAYS had silly/slapstick/physical comedy as well as more refined/sciency humor. That's the beauty of it. Season 1 had Sheldon and Leonard getting de-pantsed, Leonard crawling around on all fours with a sensor device in his mouth, Raj and Howard having it out with each other on the floor. Season 2 had Sheldon screaming himself blue behind Howard's scooter, Sheldon collapsing on top of a toy climb, Penny and Alicia having it out with each other on the floor. Season 3 had Leonard/Raj/Howard getting stoned and ridiculous, and Sheldon bouncing around in a ball-pit. Tell me that's cerebral humor.

As Phantagrae says, I don't see any clear demarcation line between 'then' and 'now'. Yes, there has been slightly more focus on relationship storylines of late, simply because they are in relationships now and completely new to that paradigm (as it happens to most of us nerds in some phase of real life). The fact is that nerds do romance and do have relationships, but in their own unique way - which is what these guys are doing. Most common folk don't draw Venn diagrams to decide what couple costume to wear, or make out over laser holograms.

That being said, I was a little disappointed with Howard's space story too. It came across as somewhat sad, right from start to finish - his being almost forced to go, the bullying, his mother/wife issues following him there, his near-breakdown, and the anti-climax of coming back to being almost ignored (for no-one's fault). I wish we could have seen him be happier with the experience, at some point during it. I don't blame the man for feeling the need to keep talking about it now, though his friends getting a bit sick of it eventually is understandable too.

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I used to complain about TBBT turning into a clown show, with the emphasis on laughing at the characters, instead of with the characters. How wrong I was. It's less silly now. :icon_rolleyes: That's why we have clown suits (smurf costume) endless sight gags instead of tight comedic writing, and to top it off, pie in the face, a typical clown stunt if ever there was one. No 2 year old would understand the first 3 seasons of TBBT but every 2 year old loves a pie to the face. I welcome the new target audience, 2 year olds! Maybe that explains the pro Shenny thread.The ruthless mocking of Howard's space adventure has really turned my stomach.
I totally agree, they could have made Howard's space adventure really funny, instead of mother vs wife jokes. It was a treasure throve of a story! What other TV sitcom character goes to the international space station? None! Now they are just mocking him over it, when all his friends should be obsessed by it and asking a dozen nerdy questions. I really don't get why they even bothered sending him.

Sad to say, you are all too right! I have commented before on how this show has changed from its stated concept of celebrating these genius characters to all too often making fun of them. This is not a rant against the show. I enjoy the show and laugh as I watch but that is mainly because I have watched since the beginning. These are characters that I have come to love and appreciate. There is much less commenting on the boards about the inconsistencies in the writing and how the characters are portrayed. Sadly, that is not because the writing is better or the inconsistencies are fewer, instead it is due to us, the viewers, becoming accustomed to them.

The real Sheldon Cooper would never have consented to sticking his face into a pie. He would have openly scorned such an idea and viciously derided anyone foolish enough to suggest such a thing. The Sheldon we have now makes a stupid comment about anti-oxidants and getting a blueberry up his nose. Besides, where exactly are we to imagine they got four blueberry pies? The plan for the evening was to play couple’s games. Not have a pie eating contest. The writers on TBBT have never been nominated for an Emmy and if this continues they never will be.

As for mocking Howard’s adventure; what adventure? They took an idea that had great potential and did nothing with it. Even worse, they used it as an opportunity to degrade, humiliate and expose Howard to more bullying. Then, when he got home it was as if he had gone nowhere at all. Leonard and Raj would certainly have been anxious to hear all about what he experienced. What did he see? What was it like riding a rocket into space? Sheldon might have feigned indifference but even he would have been interested and envious. We did see a continuation of the “will they live with his mother or on their own” scenario. It appears that this is all the writers have in mind for Howard and Bernadette.

I am not one that can tell you the name of the writers or creative staff of TBBT. Some on here are much more knowledgeable in that area than I am. But, from what I’ve read, they have apparently changed the writing staff at least three times during the run of the show? Why? What was wrong with the original writers? They were certainly better than the ones that have given us all this L/P melodrama, and the juvenile situational comedy we’ve seen in the past two seasons. They do manage to come up with some good stuff but much of it would be better suited to a different show. Are they ever going to go back to their roots? Nope; it’s not likely to happen while they’re pulling 15 million viewers a week and winning the ratings battle. They can, however, write a decent show and stay true to the characters they’ve created. They can give us good comedy to laugh at without making us laugh at the expense of the characters. Most of these comments are applicable to the Re-Entry Minimization and not the episode that is the topic of this thread. This episode was, too me, an example of what they can do when they get it right. :icon_lol:

Edited by HeWolf

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I don't know that Sheldon of yore, so to speak, would have objected to a pie-eating contest if victory of some sort hung in the balance. For Sheldon, the goal is winning, and if it means getting a blueberry up his nose I imagine he would do it. He might be arrogant--and yes, he's mellowed a bit since the beginning, but I don't think that's necessarily a terrible thing--but he always wants to win.

I think that the pie-eating contest was the ultimate devolving of the competition that was going on. They started off playing something ordinary like Pictionary, then as the guys wanted to find a game where they could beat the girls, they started reaching further and further for ways to compete. Presumably having exhausted whatever other options they had, someone had the idea for a pie-eating contest--which I imagine led to a quick run to the store for whatever pies were available. There would be no intellectual advantage, and it would just come down to who was more willing to go all out.

I also kind of wish that they'd made a little more of Howard's adventure, at least while he's actually up there, HOWEVER, one thing that has been consistent on this show in regard to the guys' professional endeavors is that they're all always falling short somehow, either through simply finding "negative results" to somehow screwing things up. However brilliant they may be, they're not superstars in their careers. They're always doing something at the university that is either embarrassing or counter-productive, etc.

So I think that in this sense, Howard's space adventure falls in line with this pattern. Howard's true success is in his marriage and I think that that's one aspect the writers are looking to protect.

As for the writers/creative staff for TBBT, I'm neurotic enough to have made an Excel sheet with the eps/writers/directors for all the episodes and I don't see any big upheaval in the writing staff.

There are a few names that show up only a handful of times, and others that have been with the show all along, but may not work on every episode. The way they write, you see all different combinations of writers, divided between those who come up with the Story and those who write the teleplay. In addition to Chuck Lorre & Bill Prady, Steven Molaro and Dave Goetsch have been around since S1 and are still on the staff. There have been others who come and go, but from the list I don't know that there's been like one "team" that then gets jettisoned for another "team". Since they almost always have 2 to 3 writers credited with the Story and 2 to 3 credited with the Teleplay.

I think one could point to an individual episode and say, "This particular grouping came up with this sucky episode", but I don't think it's possible to say, "These writers wrote all the good S1-3 episodes, and these other writers wrote the sucky S4-5 episodes!" or anything like that.

Their teamings and pairings seem pretty complicated to me. No particular grouping really stands out because they just combine and recombine in different ways for each episode. I'm sure there are individuals who have come and gone over the years, but not, seemingly, in the way that people seem to assume.

Edited by phantagrae
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