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Hmm, the problem of this argument is that when your faith is involved then it is not possible to argue at all. I am not against homosexual marriage but I cannot argue with you both if you tell me the reason of your opinion is your religion point of view. I respect all the religions and I cannot tell you "don´t believe this or you are wrong in this" because in this case this argument will become religion argument and not about marriages!

To say that you respect all religions means that you probally have little knowledge on the subject of religion. Those that claim to respect all religions are in error. It is fine to say I respect the people of all religions, but to say that you respect all religions is illogical.

If you are an athiest, you should have no respect for any religion. But, you should have respect for the people of religions.

If you are a thiest you should only have respect for your own faith. Otherwise, your knowledge in your religion is limited.

Contary to the false peacemakers of the world claiming that all religion is equal and leads to the same end. The facts are plain. Reigions don't get along, and the end results in disagreements, disputes, hatred and war. The last six thousand years of recorded human history is testament to that.

All religions can't be right. They all have different beliefs leading to never ending disagreements.

Only one religion tell us that very fact. Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

All religions have their own spiritual leaders. Mohammed, Budha, Vishnu claiming salvation through them.

Only one religion tells us this.... Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.

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Okay, this is really the end of the line for this thread. I don't mind some political or religious debate on the forum, so as long as it's kept civil and reasonable. I know some members have expressed

LMAO!!!!!!!!!! You're a comedian, I like that. Okay, okay....I wanna be a lesbian! I'll let you know how it works out Yeah, no....   Here's what I say: people can't help how they love. The Bible wa

No disrespect to anyone's views, but this discussion has become a matter of:  

Can you see? I was right! This argument about marriages became argument about religion very fast :)

Only this I can say:

* I have some knowledge about most of religions.

* I am not atheist.

* I respect all the religions because I respect PEOPLE. Religions are made by people and interpreted by people.

* I cannot say to someone that his religion is wrong. Who I am for doing that? Even sometimes I hate some acts made in the name of a religion.

* I cannot argue more about this topic because I can see you are religious person and I don´t have the right to tell you if you are wrong or right in your faith.

You know religion and politic are very sensitive topics :)

And yes, I am sure you will reply me about "religions are made by people" :)

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I'm not arguing about religion but of right and wrong. Do you do what is right, where you live?

I have chosen to follow the BIBLE (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth) which is to ME is the ultimate book of right and wrong.

The BIBLE says it is good for man and woman to be together.

IT began with Adam and Eve.

The BIBLE says it is an abomination for man and man to be together.

It was not Adam and Steve.

You only used part of the quote, the FULL quote is as follows:

"A religion is made for man in search for god.

A relationship is GOD in search of man."

Since I've chosen a relationship with JESUS, I have also chosen to follow HIS ways.

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Can you see? I was right! This argument about marriages became argument about religion very fast :)

Only this I can say:

* I have some knowledge about most of religions.

* I am not atheist.

* I respect all the religions because I respect PEOPLE. Religions are made by people and interpreted by people.

* I cannot say to someone that his religion is wrong. Who I am for doing that? Even sometimes I hate some acts made in the name of a religion.

* I cannot argue more about this topic because I can see you are religious person and I don´t have the right to tell you if you are wrong or right in your faith.

You know religion and politic are very sensitive topics :)

And yes, I am sure you will reply me about "religions are made by people" :)

Point 1: Marriage is about religion, most folk are marriage through a religion. God invented marriage and His word states it is between a man and a woman.

Point 2: If you have some knowledge about most religions, then you should know that most religions do not support same sex marriage.

Point 3: If you are not an atheist you should know that same sex marriage is against God's instruction. You should follow God on this matter having no opinion of your own.

Point 4: It is illogical to claim respect for all religions when they cannot all be right. Respecting a false premise will result in the continuation of that false premise. If you were alive three thousand years ago, would you respect the religions that sacrificed children?

Point 5: You are most welcome to argue with me. You cannot hurt my feeling, you can say anything to me. I am aware that your feeling may get hurt, as you probably have little experience of true debate. It is not my intention to upset you, but I must speak the truth. Sometimes truths hurts. Of course you may disagee on what truth is, hense, the reason for debate.

Point 6: Religion and politics are sensitive subjects. But, did you notice the world is governed by both. What do we do. Ignore it, don't talk about it, and hope it goes away!

Edited by Catweazle

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Point 1: Marriage is about religion, most folk are marriage through a religion. God invented marriage and His word states it is between a man and a woman.

Point 2: If you have some knowledge about most religions, then you should know that most religions do not support same sex marriage.

Point 3: If you are not an atheist you should know that same sex marriage is against God's instruction. You should follow God on this matter having no opinion of your own.

Point 4: It is illogical to claim respect for all religions when they cannot all be right. Respecting a false premise will result in the continuation of that false premise. If you were alive three thousand years ago, would you respect the religions that sacrificed children?

Point 5: You are most welcome to argue with me. You cannot hurt my feeling, you can say anything to me. I am aware that your feeling may get hurt, as you probably have little experience of true debate. It is not my intention to upset you, but I must speak the truth. Sometimes truths hurts. Of course you may disagee on what truth is, hense, the reason for debate.

Point 6: Religion and politics are sensitive subjects. But, did you notice the world is governed by both. What do we do. Ignore it, don't talk about it, and hope it goes away!

About your point 1: You are right that lot of people is married by a religion but not all of them. In my country we have 2 types of marriages: marriage by law (made in a government office) and religious marriage (in the church) Here nobody can marry in the church if before they didn´t marry by law in the Government office. But we can marry only in this office if we want and we don´t need to marry in the church if we don´t want. I am not sure about your country but here marriage is not a religious issue. Becomes religious if we are a religious couple and we want to marry by church too (an expensive option!)

About your point 2: you are right in this :)

About your point 3: If God gave me intelligence it is because He wants I should think and have my opinions. And He made the homosexuals too. Even in the animals there are "homosexual" couples.

About your point 4: 3000 years ago there were religions sacrificing Children but nowadays still lot of people is killed in name of religions. As I said, I respect the faith of people but I don´t agree when their faith make them to kill/disturb/ spoil the life of others. Everybody has the right to have a religion but they don´t have the right to imposse their faith to others in an agressive way.

About your point 5: Do you think I have experience of true debate? Actually I think I don´t have and that is why I felt fear to hurt you or make you upset with me. You know, I am new in this site and I want to make friends, not to disturb you :p And it is clear for me that you don´t want to upset me.

About your point 6: I AGREE VERY MUCH WITH YOU!!!!!!!! (that is why even I didn´t want to argue about this topic I answered it :D I am saying my opinion but at the same time I am saying: oh no, I don´t want to argue about this ha ha I am so silly :icon_redface:

Do you know? when I say the word is governed by politics and religions people look at me as I am crazy. I think very less people can see that. That is why I am liking so much this site. NICE TO MEET YOU :)

Edited by Lissie

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About your point 1: You are right that lot of people is married by a religion but not all of them. In my country we have 2 types of marriages: marriage by law (made in a government office) and religious marriage (in the church) Here nobody can marry in the church if before they didn´t marry by law in the Government office. But we can marry only in this office if we want and we don´t need to marry in the church if we don´t want. I am not sure about your country but here marriage is not a religious issue. Becomes religious if we are a religious couple and we want to marry by church too (an expensive option!)

About your point 2: you are right in this :)

About your point 3: If God gave me intelligence it is because He wants I should think and have my opinions. And He made the homosexuals too. Even in the animals there are "homosexual" couples.

About your point 4: 3000 years ago there were religions sacrificing Children but nowadays still lot of people is killed in name of religions. As I said, I respect the faith of people but I don´t agree when their faith make them to kill/disturb/ spoil the life of others. Everybody has the right to have a religion but they don´t have the right to imposse their faith to others in an agressive way.

About your point 5: Do you think I have experience of true debate? Actually I think I don´t have and that is why I felt fear to hurt you or make you upset with me. You know, I am new in this site and I want to make friends, not to disturb you :p And it is clear for me that you don´t want to upset me.

About your point 6: I AGREE VERY MUCH WITH YOU!!!!!!!! (that is why even I didn´t want to argue about this topic I answered it :D I am saying my opinion but at the same time I am saying: oh no, I don´t want to argue about this ha ha I am so silly :icon_redface:

Do you know? when I say the word is governed by politics and religions people look at me as I am crazy. I think very less people can see that. That is why I am liking so much this site. NICE TO MEET YOU :)

About point 4. There is more killings of babies NOW than EVER BEFORE in history, it's called ABORTION! HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of innocent Babies are being KILLED every day. Does not this go against Imposing their "faith" (or lack of) to others in an aggressive way AGGRESSIVE?? it's MURDER that about as aggressive as you can get.

How can it be called "pro-choice" when the babies have NO CHOICE as they are being MURDERED.

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About point 4. There is more killings of babies NOW than EVER BEFORE in history, it's called ABORTION! HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of innocent Babies are being KILLED every day. Does not this go against Imposing their "faith" (or lack of) to others in an aggressive way AGGRESSIVE?? it's MURDER that about as aggressive as you can get.

How can it be called "pro-choice" when the babies have NO CHOICE as they are being MURDERED.

You think in this way because you are not a woman :)

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Are you trying to tell me that it's OK to KILL a baby just because your a woman??

It doesn't matter if I'm a man or woman, MURDER IS MURDER.

My wife is even more vocal than I am when it comes to MURDER of innocent babies..

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About your point 1: You are right that lot of people is married by a religion but not all of them. In my country we have 2 types of marriages: marriage by law (made in a government office) and religious marriage (in the church) Here nobody can marry in the church if before they didn´t marry by law in the Government office. But we can marry only in this office if we want and we don´t need to marry in the church if we don´t want. I am not sure about your country but here marriage is not a religious issue. Becomes religious if we are a religious couple and we want to marry by church too (an expensive option!)

About your point 2: you are right in this :)

About your point 3: If God gave me intelligence it is because He wants I should think and have my opinions. And He made the homosexuals too. Even in the animals there are "homosexual" couples.

About your point 4: 3000 years ago there were religions sacrificing Children but nowadays still lot of people is killed in name of religions. As I said, I respect the faith of people but I don´t agree when their faith make them to kill/disturb/ spoil the life of others. Everybody has the right to have a religion but they don´t have the right to imposse their faith to others in an agressive way.

About your point 5: Do you think I have experience of true debate? Actually I think I don´t have and that is why I felt fear to hurt you or make you upset with me. You know, I am new in this site and I want to make friends, not to disturb you :p And it is clear for me that you don´t want to upset me.

About your point 6: I AGREE VERY MUCH WITH YOU!!!!!!!! (that is why even I didn´t want to argue about this topic I answered it :D I am saying my opinion but at the same time I am saying: oh no, I don´t want to argue about this ha ha I am so silly :icon_redface:

Do you know? when I say the word is governed by politics and religions people look at me as I am crazy. I think very less people can see that. That is why I am liking so much this site. NICE TO MEET YOU :)

Point 1: In my country marriage by state is called a civil wedding . However, thankfully, a church wedding by those who choose that route, do not have to undergo a civil wedding also. I don't know much about your country, but it sounds as though they don't believe marriage under God in a religious service is legal enough. Sounds like a case of state overuling God.

Point 3: Some people use thier intelligence to form the opinion that murder is the right way to solve their problems. Some people use their intelligence to form the opinion that young children enjoy sex, and become paedophiles. Do you see the danger of thinking you have the right to form your own opinions. If your parents gave you a rule not to stick your hand in fire, would you form your own opinion to test their rule? God gave man rules for their own good. Their opinions on those rules are irrelevant. God did not create homosexuals. There is no gay gene. Homosexuality is a choice.

Point 4: Therefore you now see that your respect is conditional. The wise thing to do is to further seek the conditions of religions. One religion tells us in Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things, hold fast to what is good.

You are an intelligent young lady. I offer you this advise. From the moment you were born you have been bombarded with information of the opinions of man. Most folk on this Earth are victims of circumstance, never having the opportunity to challenge the world into which they were born.

In the western world polictical correctness is the new god.To challenge it is to be labelled bigot. Do not be afraid to go aganist the grain. Test all things, hold fast to that what is good.

Edited by Catweazle

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You think in this way because you are not a woman :)

God tells us in Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those that call evil good and good evil.

We now live in a world where that very thing is happening.

In the 1960's homosexuality was a crime and classed as evil. Today, homosexuality is accepted, praised and considered good.

In the 1960's abortion was a crime and classed as evil. Today, it is accepted and classed as good.

What is good about murder? Is it a good that the muder of an innocent child be the result of the mothers immorality?

Maybe, you are of the opinion of men, and not the opinion of God!

Edited by Catweazle

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Point 1: In my country marriage by state is called a civil wedding . However, thankfully, a church wedding by those who choose that route, do not have to undergo a civil wedding also. I don't know much about your country, but it sounds as though they don't believe marriage under God in a religious service is legal enough. Sounds like a case of state overuling God.

Point 3: Some people use thier intelligence to form the opinion that murder is the right way to solve their problems. Some people use their intelligence to form the opinion that young children enjoy sex, and become paedophiles. Do you see the danger of thinking you have the right to form your own opinions. If your parents gave you a rule not to stick your hand in fire, would you form your own opinion to test their rule? God gave man rules for their own good. Their opinions on those rules are irrelevant. God did not create homosexuals. There is no gay gene. Homosexuality is a choice.

Point 4: Therefore you now see that your respect is conditional. The wise thing to do is to further seek the conditions of religions. One religion tells us in Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things, hold fast to what is good.

You are an intelligent young lady. I offer you this advise. From the moment you were born you have been bombarded with information of the opinions of man. Most folk on this Earth are victims of circumstance, never having the opportunity to challenge the world into which they were born.

In the western world polictical correctness is the new god.To challenge it is to be labelled bigot. Do not be afraid to go aganist the grain. Test all things, hold fast to that what is good.

Point 1: yes here too is called "civil wedding" and this is the only wedding our government accept as legal. Religious wedding don´t have any value for our law, this is only a choice of people. In your country the church has a big power and it is related to the royalty, etc. My country is a new nation born in democracy without any power like king or queen. We have a president voted by the population. Even here the major religion is Catholic, the church is not part of our government and they only are free to give their opinions about these issues but they don´t have any legal power.

Point 2: you are very much wrong here. How you can say that paedophiles and murderes use their "intelligence"? That is not INTELLIGENCE!

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God tells us in Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those that call evil good and good evil.

We now live in a world where that very thing is happening.

In the 1960's homosexuality was a crime and classed as evil. Today, homosexuality is accepted, praised and considered good.

In the 1960's abortion was a crime and classed as evil. Today, it is accepted and classed as good.

What is good about murder? Is it a good that the muder of an innocent child be the result of the mothers immorality?

Maybe, you are of the opinion of men, and not the opinion of God!

Well, human being is slow for giving the rights to others and accepting changes. Women have the right to vote for about 85 years only and in some countries even less. Less than 100 years ago lot of people had the opinion that a woman voting is an aberration. And this is only one example of our western society. Happen the same with homosexual weddings. This is starting now and lot of people is thinking this is an aberration. Changes scare people.

Edited by Lissie

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MY nation was began with freedom OF (not from) religion.

In GOD we TRUST,

One nation under GOD,

GOD will bless those that worship HIM,

WE are turning away from GOD so HE is turning away from us!

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Point 2: you are very much wrong here. How you can say that paedophiles and murderes use their "intelligence"? That is not INTELLIGENCE!

Human beings are the only creatures that have the intelligence to be able to plan, plot, scheme and create. Animals live by rudmentary intelligence and instinct.

It takes great intelligence to be able to plot ahead to create evil. Have you every watched Columbo? Animals do not have the intelligence to do that. Only humans have great intelligence.

To plan a murder, or groom a child takes cunning and intelligence. A man uses may use his intelligence for evil as well as good. Your mistake here is to fail to understand that fact. You are probaby thinking, "Oh it's not intelligent to do such an evil thing, as it will lead to prison". Murder or grooming a child is not a good or wise thing to do, but it is the power of human intelligence that enables such things.

God gave man something that he didn't give animals. Intelligence. The intelligence was given so we can do great and good things. But, it is being used to do great and evil things also!

You're mistaking wisom for wrong use of human itelligence. It is not wise to do wrong, but it takes human intelligence to do it!!

Edited by Catweazle

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Well, human being is slow for giving the rights to others and accepting changes. Women have the right to vote for about 85 years only and in some countries even less. Less than 100 years ago lot of people had the opinion that a woman voting is an aberration. And this is only one example of our western society. Happen the same with homosexual weddings. This is starting now and lot of people is thinking this is an aberration. Changes scare people.

You are making the great mistake of accepting man's morality over God's. Allowing women the vote is an irrelevance. No woman was jailed for voting and breaking the law before women's vote existed. Women simply couln't vote because there was no structure in place.

But, for homosexuals God speaks on that matter. He dosn't speak on women's vote. The Bible make it very clear that homosexuality is wrong. You are listening to your own opinion again and ignoring God's. This is what society is doing.

Same sex marriage is not progress, it is the eroding of God's morailty.

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We as humans are BORN selfish and self centered. New born babies only think of themselves. "I'm hungry, FEED ME", "I'm wet, CHANGE ME", I'm lonely, HOLD ME"!

As they grow older do they "learn" to be selfish? No it's a carry over from being babies!

Does a parent have to teach a child to lie? No, it comes naturally to them!

Who teaches a child that hitting will hurt another! NO ONE!

We are the only "animal" that needs laws to continue as a society.

This is why GOD gave man rules, because we need them!

When I was in school, (while the 10 COMMANDMENTS were still on the walls) the biggest problem I remember was chewing gum, or at worst fist fighting. Now kids have to worry about being SHOT! Teachers being raped! Teachers seducing children, and worse!

No one is able to follow the COMMANDMENTS 100%, because we ARE NOT perfect, we will continue to sin. However By trying to follow those 10 COMMANDMENTS we would have a better world. WITH OUT rules society WILL fail!

Those that use their intelligence to hurt others NEVER got over their selfish ways as a child and CHOOSE not to follow rules.

Every time we throw out a law,(or ADD a bad law) the closer we get to lawlessness.

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We as humans are BORN selfish and self centered. New born babies only think of themselves. "I'm hungry, FEED ME", "I'm wet, CHANGE ME", I'm lonely, HOLD ME"!

Human beings are not born selfish and self centred, that is an absurd statement. A new born baby is born with little more than rudimentary instinct to feed and make known discomfort. They are born a clean state, and must learn everything that is not encoded in their makeup, such as instinct. Selfishness is a trate that must be aquired, as trates such as humility and kindness. There is no selfish gene in the DNA of babies.

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Since the time of Adan & Eves' transgression, "man" has been born in sin. It IS in our nature. We are born with original sin!

In you post # 91 you state "To plan a murder, or groom a child takes cunning and intelligence", I have either heard of or seen exceptions in both cases.

"To plan a murder" i have heard that Sharks kill for sport. Wolves kill for sport. I have seen a female Coyote entice a male dog away from home, only to have the pack attack it.

Why are the prisons filled with murderers that MOSTLY have a lower intelligence?

"Or groom a child" I have had enough Dogs to watch them groom the puppies until they can get around on their own. Monkeys groom their babies and one another ALL the time. Grooming is not just a human thing.

Why does "man" abuse their young, mistreat their old, and kill each other MORE than ANY other creature on earth?

GOD has put "man" In charge of all things, BUT we have abused that power!

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Since the time of Adan & Eves' transgression, "man" has been born in sin. It IS in our nature. We are born with original sin!

In you post # 91 you state "To plan a murder, or groom a child takes cunning and intelligence", I have either heard of or seen exceptions in both cases.

"To plan a murder" i have heard that Sharks kill for sport. Wolves kill for sport. I have seen a female Coyote entice a male dog away from home, only to have the pack attack it.

Why are the prisons filled with murderers that MOSTLY have a lower intelligence?

"Or groom a child" I have had enough Dogs to watch them groom the puppies until they can get around on their own. Monkeys groom their babies and one another ALL the time. Grooming is not just a human thing.

Why does "man" abuse their young, mistreat their old, and kill each other MORE than ANY other creature on earth?

GOD has put "man" In charge of all things, BUT we have abused that power!

Point 1: Can you show me in scripture where is the term "original sin". This is a term was created by the Catholic Church and is not biblical. As I have already stated, and maintain, babies are born without knowledge. They are clean slates and must aquire knowledge witch forms their nature after birth.

Point 2: Animals live by instinct. Animals that kill for fun as you have stated, which I doubt, have that trate in their nature before birth. God gave animals instinct and rudimentary intelligence. God gave man rudimentary instinct and great intelligence. God gave humans the intelligence to do incredible things. Put a man on the moon. Split the atom. There is no limit to what man can achieve given enough time. Animals on the other hand have remained in the same condition as the day they were created.

Point 3: I think you will find those lower intelligent prisoners are sharing their cells with some very intelligent criminals.

Point 4: You're kidding right? You think I'm referring to combing hair? Don't you know what internet or other form of grooming is?

Point 5: That has to be a rhetorical question right? I'm sure you've picked up the idea that I have some biblical knowledge.

Point 6: I know.

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Point 1: Can you show me in scripture where is the term "original sin". This is a term was created by the Catholic Church and is not biblical. As I have already stated, and maintain, babies are born without knowledge. They are clean slates and must aquire knowledge witch forms their nature after birth.

Point 2: Animals live by instinct. Animals that kill for fun as you have stated, which I doubt, have that trate in their nature before birth. God gave animals instinct and rudimentary intelligence. God gave man rudimentary instinct and great intelligence. God gave humans the intelligence to do incredible things. Put a man on the moon. Split the atom. There is no limit to what man can achieve given enough time. Animals on the other hand have remained in the same condition as the day they were created.

Point 3: I think you will find those lower intelligent prisoners are sharing their cells with some very intelligent criminals.

Point 4: You're kidding right? You think I'm referring to combing hair? Don't you know what internet or other form of grooming is?

Point 5: That has to be a rhetorical question right? I'm sure you've picked up the idea that I have some biblical knowledge.

Point 6: I know.

POINT 1) The words "original sin""may not be used, but neither is TRINITY. If you are a CHRISTian than you must agree that the TRINITY exists as well as other words we now use that are not found in the BIBLE. Getting back To original sin, if you read ROMANS 5:12 (which I will quote) through 5:21 (not quoted) it describes it quite well.

ROMANS 5:12 "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because all sinned."

POINT 2) I totally agree that we ("man") have a much greater intelligence than animals.If what you say about all animals having the trait of instinct being in their nature (DNA?), then why do some wild animals need to be taught to hunt? Whether animals kill for fun or just instinct, I think we will just have to agree to disagree on that point.

POINT 3) I'm sure there are a lot of very intelligent people in prison, however the key word I used was "MOSTLY".

POINT 4) Since Cain was the first murderer, How/where did Cain "acquire" the ability the ability to murder? It couldn't be instinct or DNA or even taught TO him.

POINT 5) No, not a rhetorical question. See answer # 1 "man" is BORN with a sinful nature!

Edited by walnutcowboy

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next topic for argument:

Can you buy happiness???

Me, I say happiness can be bought. When you buy stuff you like, and have dreamed long time getting, you will be happy for a short time.

-also, more money you have, a better lifepartner you can get. Sad but true!

-also, if you have money to buy doctors and medicines, you will be healthier, and health brings happiness.

Everlasting happiness? Well, there is no such thing! Not even in religion. Oh, religious people may brag that they have a lasting happiness in J-man ans so forth, but that is just a one big fat lie. I mean have you seen a happy christian?!?

But religion aside, I say happiness can be bought. Any arguments?

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