Time For Leonard To Take A Stand(Vague Spoiler?)

[SD70ACe]

I have been a big supporter of Leonard/Penny but this last episode killed that for me. Penny is too childish and insecure. I don`t want drop any spoilers so............

Leonard needs to give Penny an ultimatum: Get over her petty insecurities or at least be willing to discuss them, or it is over. Her reaction to Leonard`s attempt to help may have crossed a line but her reaction was totally uncalled for. If an adult truly cares about somebody then they need to be able to forgive and look past relatively minor transgressions....anything else is nothing more than childish. I see her as nothing more than an insecure, immature, and selfish bitch.

[MJistheBOMB]

I feel he should have respected her wishes and backed off and let her get a feel for it first. She had every right to be upset in this situation I think. Him wanting to help her was sweet and great...but there is a time and a place for that. Like maybe AFTER she turned in her paper and she happened to get a bad grade, that could be his cue to dive in and offer her his help whenever she needs it :-).

In other ways, yes, she still has some growing to do....and Leonard does too.

Monique

Edited November 2, 2012 by MJistheBOMB

[phantagrae]

He was wrong. She had a right to be mad because she had expressly told him that she wanted to do it in her own. He had offered to look at her paper, she had said no, that she wanted to do it in her own and why, and yet he still went behind her back. I think she had every right to be mad and I think it's not unreasonable for her to feel that even if he doesn't intend it that way, that it's still a judgement of her ability for him to interfere.

He doesn't really have the right to tell her to get over her insecurities when he obviously doesn't think she can do things on her own and be good enough. His intentions were good, but sometimes you just have to let things play out. He already knew why she didn't want his help.

And if he loves her, then he has to love the whole package, insecurities and all. Period. She's always going to be outside the intellectual circle of this entire group--they ALL have advanced degrees and she's a drop-out. She's not a scholar and probably never will be, and now in her first attempt his actions just underscore that truth.

Now, in turning to the girls, I think she's better able to open up with them and ask for help because her friendship with them is just different. Maybe it's a girl thing or whatever, or that she feels more comfortable revealing her insecurities with them. And of course, her last comments to the girls aren't meant to be taken seriously--it's a comedy after all. I really don't think that she's gong to become some kind of ongoing bully.

The girls are complicent in the deception as well, so I don't think anyone is innocent in the whole scheme.

Edited November 2, 2012 by phantagrae

[Superlovelexi]

I think whole silly situation with the paper made them all look bad. I hope they don't do it like that again. If Penny is going to keep going with that class (and I hope she does) Then I hope they actually show her learning and maybe stating some real historical facts in her conversations with her friends and Leonard instead of just having this be one of those things that we never hear about again much except one line of dialogue like "Oh Penny how was class today? Penny: "Oh it was okay, the professor is kind of hot." That would make whole storyline of Penny going back to school pointless if they don't make it part of some sort of on going growth with her character.

As for Leonard I get that he should have stayed out of it, but really if he has to accept that she is a whiny insecure dumb blonde than she should accept that he is a needy control freak that only wants her to be happy. Love is a two way street not a one lane highway.

But, I refuse to accept that Penny treating the girls that way is cool or funny. I think its pretty lame to make Penny act like that towards them just for a laugh. I don't think Penny wants to be bully to them at all, but I think the writers have her act like "the bully" girl stereotype sometimes and that is a continued pattern played up for laughs on the show. Because this isn't first time its happened so I doubt it'll be the last.

They've done it before. One example is when Penny talked about how she and her friends tied a Nerd girl up and left her in a cornfield that was an example of how Penny use to be a bully even back then and she hasn't really changed much. She didn't think it made her a bully But, it totally did and Amy and Bernadette were scared of her after that comment too. Well same thing with tonight's episode with high school comments and them being afraid to talk back to her and are only keeping her secret because they don't want her to be mad at them.

The writers must think its a funny dynamic somehow that Penny is this pretty popular prom queen bully type girl that Bernadette and Amy wish they were friends with back in high school so they let her bully them now so they can continue being part of her world. I know its their choice, they aren't kids, but adults and Penny is their friend so they can choose to do that if they want too, but in my opinion that is awful thing for a show to do to treat bullying nerds as just a joke. As if that is SO funny. I doubt its all that funny to nerds who actually get beat up or picked on in real life. Its one of those its only funny when its not happening to you type deals which is really kind of an unempathetic attitude IMO.

But, BBT is isn't alone in these type of jokes, they make fun of the dynamic between nerds and bullies a lot on different sitcoms. But, I do believe they will keep playing it just for laughs and its not that Penny is trying to be mean to them because she hates them or anything. Its just like how Sheldon is mean to his guy friends a lot especially making fun of Howard's MIT background and job as engineer which hurts Howard's feelings, but Sheldon doesn't realize that he sounds like a bully when he says those things. Penny doesn't think she is being mean to the girls either, but that just makes them both look bad and not necessarily funnier. Sometimes its funny when they are mean to people,especially characters who are mean to them like Sheldon fighting with Kripke or Wil or Penny fighting Todd Zarnecki, but other times its just annoying and distasteful to see them treat their real good friends the way they do. But, their friends pick on Sheldon and Penny too so it goes both ways I guess. It can be funny or it can just look cruel depending on the writing and the situation that is occuring at the time. I found this particular situation with Penny bullying Amy and Bernadette into not telling Leonard about her paper to be a not a very funny one because it just makes her look like an insecure liar and makes them look too weak-willed.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Superlovelexi

[Sherminator]

Yeah, take a hike, Lenny boy!

Sorry, I meant take a stand!

Or did I?

[netmouse]

Agreed. I made reference to this in the episode discussion. The relationship is redundant, one sided and getting boring imo.

[Fruit Loop]

Smart Dummy vs Stupid Genus

Actually I believe the Writers are being true to the Original Characters of P & L. Leonard is the Genus Nerd while Penny is the Typical Blond wannabee actress who has skated by on her good looks and social skills. Penny is the Smart Dummy and Leonard/Sheldon are the Stupid Geniuses. I believe this weeks episode problems were true to the character and showed both have real issues. Those Issues and how they are resolved is what keeps the show HOT.

.

[netmouse]

Flame shields UP ... Set faces to STUN ... Shippers incoming, Captain

[Fruit Loop]

Smart Dummy vs Stupid Genus

Actually I believe the Writers are being true to the Original Characters of P & L. Leonard is the Genus Nerd while Penny is the Typical Blond wannabee actress who has skated by on her good looks and social skills. Penny is the Smart Dummy and Leonard/Sheldon are the Stupid Geniuses. I believe this weeks episode problems were true to the character and showed both have real issues. Those Issues and how they are resolved is what keeps the show HOT.

Yep I am a Rocket Scientist misspelling GENIUS.

[C-Trayne]

Let me start by saying that i am a big L/P supporter but i feel that this time penny's reaction was totally justified, I mean she asked him to let her do this on her own and he went behind her back to try and "fix" it.

When in reality he actually rewrite the entire thing. I could see things being different if he maybe offered some suggestions or tried to work with her but he didn't and that caused the fight.

However I did like how they had penny kind of teach Leonard a lesson rather than staying mad at him.

[phantagrae]

Yep I am a Rocket Scientist misspelling GENIUS.

Might as well be a toll-taker at the Golden Gate Bridge...

[Moonbase]

I enjoyed the episode, I thought Penny made her point and she had too, he was being too controlling. The writers said Leonard and Penny were going to have a few issues this season. Looks like they are okay to me, nothing they can't solve so far. All steam ahead.

[HeWolf]

Yep! Penny really proved to Leonard she can do the work on her own. Good job Penny (Bernadette and Amy)... This is probably how the good-natured simpleton got through high school. Booooo, Penny!

[Fruit Loop]

Might as well be a toll-taker at the Golden Gate Bridge...

Roflmao. That will be $ 6.00 per Car but only if they are South Bound. North Bound goes for free.

.

[Wayner]

This reminds me in so many ways to when Sheldon cleaned Penny's apartment during the night. Both Leonard and Sheldon can't help themselves when they see something that is plainly wrong.

If Penny enjoys her history lessons maybe she might like another physics lesson from Sheldon..'It was a warm summers evening ........'

[Moonbase]

Yep! Penny really proved to Leonard she can do the work on her own. Good job Penny (Bernadette and Amy)... This is probably how the good-natured simpleton got through high school. Booooo, Penny!

Maybe, if she even got through high school.

I think the point was to fix one of the issues in her relationship with Leonard. I can't see Bernadette and Amy finishing all her course work from now on…. surely.... I'm hoping that part is just a gag.

[phantagrae]

This reminds me in so many ways to when Sheldon cleaned Penny's apartment during the night. Both Leonard and Sheldon can't help themselves when they see something that is plainly wrong.

If Penny enjoys her history lessons maybe she might like another physics lesson from Sheldon..'It was a warm summers evening ........'

I've read that that's one difference between men and women--a woman might want to just vent about an issue, like some pain-in-the-butt co-worker, but the man wants to start offering solutions, rather than just letting her vent. : P

[netmouse]

@Wayner: I thought the exact same thing.

Looks like season 6 is going to be all about Leonard and Penny and whether they work out or whether they end it all again leaving season 7 open to re hash it all over again.

[DPK]

They both came off badly in this instance. Just for different reasons.

[Moonbase]

They both came off badly in this instance. Just for different reasons.

Totally, I think the writers are being careful not to make either side come off as morally superior to the other. So when the nerd messes up, so does the normal. If Penny had not have cheated on that paper, some fans would be baying for his blood right now. Calling him all sorts. Both of them are fallible which I like.

I don't condone cheating of course but I think it was a necessary step in their development. I had something similar happen to me. Someone I know passed off something I did as their own work. It counted towards part of her degree final mark, as well. Being a sissy nerd I let it slide, it wasn't an amazing piece anyway but I am surprised at how some people cheat without a second thought. I'm hoping they won't have Penny make this a regular thing though.

[Pomita]

This reminds me in so many ways to when Sheldon cleaned Penny's apartment during the night. Both Leonard and Sheldon can't help themselves when they see something that is plainly wrong.

I like this take on it. Leonard compulsively correcting Penny's paper at night was actually his inner obsessive Sheldonesque nerd coming out! The two buddies do have more in common than they might think.

[johnny-cake]

I didn't see it yet so I can't comment on the actual topic. But I am slowly getting more pissed that they aren't getting on with this relationship and making it more stable. I will however ALWAYS love Leonard AND his "needy control freak" flaws, thank you very much.

I like what Wayner and Pomita said. But I know that a lot of people will still say Leonard was in the wrong because "Sheldon didn't know any better and Leonard did". But how the f do you know that? BOTH of the characters have problems when it comes to social norms, and maybe Leonard isn't as bad, but it's still there. He always tries to do what he believes is proper and it never seems to work out. Trying to do what is right, and not doing it right, is something Leonard doesn't understand he has a problem with. Like Sheldon with so many things. He doesn't know that it isn't working. So why is Leonard dumped on when he makes mistakes? He may be the most "normal" of the group, but he still isn't great with social situations.

He doesn't know any better either.

Edited November 8, 2012 by earthcake

[Fruit Loop]

Wow you really just went after someone because they clearly just missed an "i"?

You may of missed the fact I went after MYSELF.

[johnny-cake]

What? I did apparently. Still... be nice to yourself.

[4ofN]

Penny getting upset with Leonard was justified before she cheated on her assignment. After she cheated, it just made her look like an idiot.

Isn't the idea of her going to school about her bettering herself? Her cheating ruins that. I would have preferred her doing the assignment herself and getting a D. She could be proud of that.