Ayebee Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 I don't think Penny crossed any sort of line UNTIL she made Bernadette and Amy write the paper for her. Before this it only looked like she wanted to complete it herself, with no help from anyone, hence "If I fail, I fail, and if I pass, I pass", but in the end it looks like she is doing this just to impress Leonard. That's not good! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Europa Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I don't think Penny crossed any sort of line UNTIL she made Bernadette and Amy write the paper for her. Before this it only looked like she wanted to complete it herself, with no help from anyone, hence "If I fail, I fail, and if I pass, I pass", but in the end it looks like she is doing this just to impress Leonard. That's not good! Didn't they just help her? I thought that was what Penny said... apparently they only helped her enough to get a B-. She does need to do it herself though, and I don't think she intended to ask for help until she found out Leonard thought her paper was bad - it punctured her self confidence and prompted her to ask the girls. She did say "next time" but hopefully she will be going it alone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pomita Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Didn't they just help her? I thought that was what Penny said... apparently they only helped her enough to get a B-. She does need to do it herself though, and I don't think she intended to ask for help until she found out Leonard thought her paper was bad - it punctured her self confidence and prompted her to ask the girls. She did say "next time" but hopefully she will be going it alone. Not intending to defend Penny here (she definitely messed up too), but it certainly seemed like she fully intended to do it herself, without anyone's help, till after what happened with Leonard. She wasn't even willing to tell anyone about it, initially! But the incident with Leonard did in a way put her in a position where her insecurities compelled her to take outside help to 'prove herself' to Leonard. I also agree with Earthcake's point; sometimes Leonard 'doesn't know any better', either. His social awkwardness plays out in his romantic relationships, especially with Penny. Of course he has to learn - just as Sheldon is slowly learning, in his relationship with Amy - but at least he wasn't trying to intentionally demean Penny with what he did. I don't think either of them were completely in the right or wrong, here; they just pushed each other's worst buttons, in the situation. Edited November 7, 2012 by Pomita Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbase Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Only a season ago everyone was accusing Leonard and Penny of having no substance. Now they have the most complex relationship on the show. I remember some of us complaining about how little characterisation Penny had. They have given us what we asked for, she has a real personality now. Things are changed a lot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruit Loop Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 Not intending to defend Penny here (she definitely messed up too), but it certainly seemed like she fully intended to do it herself, without anyone's help, till after what happened with Leonard. She wasn't even willing to tell anyone about it, initially! But the incident with Leonard did in a way put her in a position where her insecurities compelled her to take outside help to 'prove herself' to Leonard. I also agree with Earthcake's point; sometimes Leonard 'doesn't know any better', either. His social awkwardness plays out in his romantic relationships, especially with Penny. Of course he has to learn - just as Sheldon is slowly learning, in his relationship with Amy - but at least he wasn't trying to intentionally demean Penny with what he did. I don't think either of them were completely in the right or wrong, here; they just pushed each other's worst buttons, in the situation. You make a great point. Because Leonard Looked and even said something to the effect it needed help. Penny's back was against the wall. She had to prove to Leonard she was doing OK without his Help. If Leonard had not looked, Penny would have done the work herself. . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pomita Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 Only a season ago everyone was accusing Leonard and Penny of having no substance. Now they have the most complex relationship on the show. I remember some of us complaining about how little characterisation Penny had. They have given us what we asked for, she has a real personality now. Things are changed a lot. True! But 'we' are never going to be completely satisfied, no matter what they do. It's either too much or too little. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
netmouse Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 Penny's really beginning to show a lot of selfishness within the alleged "relationship" that is The Lenny. Paging, Dr Stephanie. Dr Stephanie to the ER, stat !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Trayne Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 Penny's really beginning to show a lot of selfishness within the alleged "relationship" that is The Lenny. Paging, Dr Stephanie. Dr Stephanie to the ER, stat !! How do you figure? I think what we are seeing is a kind of evolution of Penny. Especially after the Halloween episode where she started putting forth the effort to see what it is Leonard does. Not only that but shes returned to school likely because deep down she is still insecure about being to dumb for him. Sure she may have "lied" about her paper telling Leonard she did when in reality the girls helped her but i think that it was really just to teach him a lesson that she can handle it and he shouldn't be as forceful in trying to help her or go behind her back when she asks him not to do things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
netmouse Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 I guess I'm just not liking the fact that she has considered dumping Leonard. Regardless of whether or not she goes through with it, it's just not nice. A case of art imitating life for me when it comes to this topic. Leonard's like a puppy. You can kick him all you want and he will still come and sit on your lap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasu Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) I guess I'm just not liking the fact that she has considered dumping Leonard. Regardless of whether or not she goes through with it, it's just not nice. I also feel the same...I mean after all the things she went through after breaking-up with him the first time......that was pretty bad...and at that point of time she clearly considered that she could do better..... and also he was'nt even pressuring her... And her only problem was that she did not want to hurt Leonard....which kind of implies that if Leonard was ok she would have been happy to end things....no sign of romantic love here... Edited November 9, 2012 by vasu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruit Loop Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 I also feel the same...I mean after all the things she went through after breaking-up with him the first time......that was pretty bad...and at that point of time she clearly considered that she could do better..... and also he was'nt even pressuring her... And her only problem was that she did not want to hurt Leonard....which kind of implies that if Leonard was ok she would have been happy to end things....no sign of romantic love here... Yes and now the Biological Clock is ticking. Leonard is a Good Provider that will buy her two closets full of shoes. Why not settle? . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantagrae Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 I also feel the same...I mean after all the things she went through after breaking-up with him the first time......that was pretty bad...and at that point of time she clearly considered that she could do better..... and also he was'nt even pressuring her... And her only problem was that she did not want to hurt Leonard....which kind of implies that if Leonard was ok she would have been happy to end things....no sign of romantic love here... I don't know that she thought she could do better. She broke up with him after the I Love You, but only becasue she thought she was doing him a favor in letting him be free to find someone better, perhaps. If she was really taking Wil Wheaton's advice into account, she wasn't ready to say ILY and thought that maybe Leonard would be better off with someone who could make that committement more readily than she. In the end she saw that it was a mistake to have broken up with him (presumably because she did feel love for him and considered him a good guy to be with--he's sweet and well-mannered, etc., even if he's a little needy or insecure.) If he hadn't said the ILY words, she probably would not have thought of breaking up with him. It wasn't that she considered him beneath her or not good enough for her. Subsequently, we didn't really see her dating much, though apparently she did date other guys. Whatever the case, she obviously didn't find anyone out there that she liked more than Leonard. And I do think that she has questioned herself as to whether or not she's good enough for him, with her committement issues and her lack of education. If he could have someone like Priya, for instance, then why would he want her (Penny)? In any real relationship there is a level of vulnerability involved. You have to be able to make yourself vulnerable in order to offer yourself to another person who may reject you one way or another. I think that Penny has had it easy in that regard for some time because she is pretty and generally self-confident. But with Leonard she has found that is more than just an eager nerd who fell under the spell of her looks. She has had this feeling of inadequacy in knowledge before, so I think that making the decision to try to do something about it is a big step for her. She's not just trying to continue the way she always has, but is trying for some personal growth. I think that one of the issues in this conflict about her education and being "just a dumb waitress" or whatever is that Leonard hasn't properly explained what he really thinks or feels about her intelligence/education. Back when he first found out that she had lied about finishing community college, he brought her the brochures, but didn't explain himself well. What he should have tried to tell her was that it didn't matter to him whether or not she had a degree (not whether or not she was dumb), but that if she wanted to go back to school that he would be supportive. Of course, that's not funny, and the show is a comedy... I think it's kind of like a seesaw--one or the other of them is up while the other one is down but little by little they're leveling off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasu Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) When I said at the point of time i was referring to episode 6.02 (he was not pressuring her)...everything in my previous post was referring to the episode 6.02(hurting leonard---when she says that is the last thing I want to do during the sheldon scene).... her considering she could do better( The opening scene where she tell the girls that she's been in love before and it was different and exciting) He was clearly pressuring her during the first time and frankly the first break-up was more of his fault... English is not my native language... so i guess i was not able to convey my thoughts properly ISubsequently, we didn't really see her dating much, though apparently she did date other guys. Whatever the case, she obviously didn't find anyone out there that she liked more than Leonard. And I do think that she has questioned herself as to whether or not she's good enough for him, with her committement issues and her lack of education. If he could have someone like Priya, for instance, then why would he want her (Penny)? This is one of the reason I did not the like way she was portrayed in some scenes during Beta-Test... Especially the way she laughed off Amy's comment about Leonard hurting her(That's hilarious no)--- I get that this is a sitcom and that was played out for laughs.....but I thought a simple and sweet "No Leonard would never do that" would have been better..there is not much of a difference between the two but I feel this would have implied her confidence in him(which I think the writers were trying to imply)....not her arrogance or her feeling superior.... Edited November 9, 2012 by vasu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
netmouse Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 Isn't Penny's dad due for a return episode this season? Maybe he can talk some sense into her ??!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Trayne Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 Isn't Penny's dad due for a return episode this season? Maybe he can talk some sense into her ??!! Is he? I hope so both to see him again and hopefully for what u said! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
netmouse Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 @C-Trayne: pretty sure it was mentioned in general news towards the end of last season that he would be getting some more airtime on the show. iirc it was around the same time they announced that Stuart and Kripke were going to be regulars through season 6. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Trayne Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 Well that'll be nice. It'll be good to see him interact with Leonard now that he and penny are actually dating! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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