Penny Finally Says I Love You To Leonard But Is It A Game Changer?

[Nogravitasatall]

I contend that that P/Lrelationship is the core of the show. A classic set up of the hopeless romance, highly relatable and designed to be deserving of emotional investment. The relationship had a stroke in s3 and a heart attack at end S4. Each event was just plausible enough but TPTB have given themselves insurance- spread the risk- by adding more romantic pairings. They can give the show a different heart attack (peril) next time. No need to go third strike on L/P. And audiences would pay attention to that third strike. Once is accident, twice coincidence, third time is enemy action.TPTB dont want to be the enemy and they want the show to keep succeeding, so I think L/P are safe. And I still think there is a problem with the skank and slut labels. Julia Gillard had the best rebuttal to that kind of labelling. Go look for it. Awesome. And that's me done on labels.

[goblyn-ina-trenchcoat]

I contend that that P/Lrelationship is the core of the show. A classic set up of the hopeless romance, highly relatable and designed to be deserving of emotional investment. The relationship had a stroke in s3 and a heart attack at end S4. Each event was just plausible enough but TPTB have given themselves insurance- spread the risk- by adding more romantic pairings. They can give the show a different heart attack (peril) next time. No need to go third strike on L/P. And audiences would pay attention to that third strike. Once is accident, twice coincidence, third time is enemy action.TPTB dont want to be the enemy and they want the show to keep succeeding, so I think L/P are safe. And I still think there is a problem with the skank and slut labels. Julia Gillard had the best rebuttal to that kind of labelling. Go look for it. Awesome. And that's me done on labels.

skank is a word used by the show. and a good description of penny.

[goblyn-ina-trenchcoat]

But they left it in the show.  As corny as it is they could have done a dream sequence and taken it out.  You may not see it this way but for some people it was like a betrayal.  Of those a percentage will never watch the show again, others may watch but never get over it, and the rest, like myself, will never trust the show as much as before.

 

It was also nice of them to bring it back up right before the winter break.  It is great they have really learned their lesson, not.

I could not have said it better.        Obviously!

[Nogravitasatall]

skank is a word used by the show. and a good description of penny.

I respect your personal and informed choice to continue its use. It concisely advises a reader of your position. It's almost code.

[Tensor]

   the point is after screwing raj..there is nothing diferent between penny and the whore of omaha.

 

Really?  Can you point to where Penny accepted anything of monetary value from Raj, after the fact?   Can you point out exactly where the whore of Omaha regretted what had happened with Howard, before meeting his mother?   

she has alot of work to do. if she want to be worthy of leonerd. right now all penny deserves is to be told

 

Yeah, cause she was single when she had her intent, but Leonard wasn't single when he intended to have sex with Alice.  He didn't, but you've been on an intent kick, so let's bring in Leonard's intent.  

 

every day what a worthless skank and whore she is, and when accepts that.she can start becoming the women she was in s1 s2.

 

I notice you completely give Leonard a pass on his behavior, but not Penny.   Me, I'm willing to give them both a pass and understand they BOTH have issues to work through.   Penny has never cheated within a committed relationship and broke off one relationship when she found out the other person was cheating.   And if you want to bring up she shouldn't have done it within Raj, cause he's Leonard's friend, then where's your condemnation of Leonard for getting involved with a woman he knew his friend (Howard) was interested in.   And before you jump up and down about how it shouldn't matter cause Stephanie wasn't interested in Howard, well, Leonard shouldn't have been interested in Penny, because he had a girlfriend at the time.   It's obvious you have some problem with Penny, but damning Penny for her behavior and saying she isn't worthy of Leonard when he behaved the same, in not worse, is wildly inconsistent.  

[Tensor]

 You may not see it this way but for some people it was like a betrayal. 

 

How is it a betrayal?   Because two single people tried to have sex and one of them regretted it?   And it turns out they never did have sex anyway?  

Of those a percentage will never watch the show again,

 

Man, just think, if they had that percentage, they might be hitting 19.5 million viewers a week, instead of the 19.25 they have now.   They might have even become the number 1 comedy or even made it to the number 1 non-sports show.   It's quite obvious that the Raj-Penny thing was a complete disaster.  Better cancel the show.  

 

others may watch but never get over it, and the rest, like myself, will never trust the show as much as before.

 

Not to be pedantic, but If you never trust the show as much as before, that means you'll never get over it.  The latter is a subset of the former.      

 

It was also nice of them to bring it back up right before the winter break.  It is great they have really learned their lesson, not.

 

What lesson?  Oh yeah, that the Raj-Penny thing just destroyed the show.    Yeah,  shame how the ratings have tanked since then, isn't it?

[Slicknickshady]

Exactly, Penny and Raj never had sex.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Slicknickshady

[Chrismo]

It seems Leonard is the one to blame for Penny/Raj thing. He was sleeping with Raj's sister at the time. Raj was upset, lonely and drinking. Penny realized she made a mistake with Leonard breaking up with him. But Leonard had moved on Priya. She was with Raj and did something she regretted. There was no way Penny could have known that Leonard/Priya broke up. Notice Leonard wasn't mad that it happened because he was to blame.

[goblyn-ina-trenchcoat]

I respect your personal and informed choice to continue its use. It concisely advises a reader of your position. It's almost code.

very true. it is code.we all are exposed to the same images and words,

but from our individual "spot" in the audience we have our own view.

not sayin anyone is wrong,just reporting from my spot.

[goblyn-ina-trenchcoat]

Exactly, Penny and Raj never had sex.

we will just have to disagree.

[goblyn-ina-trenchcoat]

How is it a betrayal?   Because two single people tried to have sex and one of them regretted it?   And it turns out they never did have sex anyway?  

 

Man, just think, if they had that percentage, they might be hitting 19.5 million viewers a week, instead of the 19.25 they have now.   They might have even become the number 1 comedy or even made it to the number 1 non-sports show.   It's quite obvious that the Raj-Penny thing was a complete disaster.  Better cancel the show.  

 

 

Not to be pedantic, but If you never trust the show as much as before, that means you'll never get over it.  The latter is a subset of the former.      

 

 

What lesson?  Oh yeah, that the Raj-Penny thing just destroyed the show.    Yeah,  shame how the ratings have tanked since then, isn't it?

it is a betrayal for some fans,because of the emotional investment these put in the fairytale. duh!

oh yes big ratings. again fucking duh! far more people enjoy laughing AT nerds than with nerds.

[Nogravitasatall]

it is a betrayal for some fans,because of the emotional investment these put in the fairytale. duh!

oh yes big ratings. again fucking duh! far more people enjoy laughing AT nerds than with nerds.

I don't want to overstep, but now I think I want hand you a tissue. Or maybe I'm not up on the winking things. Genuine confusion:). Edited December 20, 2012 by Nogravitasatall

[goblyn-ina-trenchcoat]

I don't want to overstep, but now I think I want hand you a tissue. Or maybe I'm not up on the winking things. Genuine confusion:).

it is sad that the more the guys struggle and fail the higher the ratings.

but i will be ok. thanks for asking.

[goblyn-ina-trenchcoat]

Really?  Can you point to where Penny accepted anything of monetary value from Raj, after the fact?   Can you point out exactly where the whore of Omaha regretted what had happened with Howard, before meeting his mother?   

 

Yeah, cause she was single when she had her intent, but Leonard wasn't single when he intended to have sex with Alice.  He didn't, but you've been on an intent kick, so let's bring in Leonard's intent.  

 

 

I notice you completely give Leonard a pass on his behavior, but not Penny.   Me, I'm willing to give them both a pass and understand they BOTH have issues to work through.   Penny has never cheated within a committed relationship and broke off one relationship when she found out the other person was cheating.   And if you want to bring up she shouldn't have done it within Raj, cause he's Leonard's friend, then where's your condemnation of Leonard for getting involved with a woman he knew his friend (Howard) was interested in.   And before you jump up and down about how it shouldn't matter cause Stephanie wasn't interested in Howard, well, Leonard shouldn't have been interested in Penny, because he had a girlfriend at the time.   It's obvious you have some problem with Penny, but damning Penny for her behavior and saying she isn't worthy of Leonard when he behaved the same, in not worse, is wildly inconsistent.  

ok lets see.

miss kim=enemy spy

DR.stef=crazy

DR.plimpton=skank

old lady in limo=skank

priya=crazy

alice=skank

 

yep leonerd is a magnet for crazy and or trashy women.

yet that is basically leonerds entire list of sex partners. (not including penny)

falls far short of pennys 30 or more.

[Nogravitasatall]

Lucky Penny. This is important to you. Can't we get passed the Madonna/whore thing? One of my attractions to this show is that the characters don't judge each other. I have even thought this approach was part of the show's intentional anti-anti-intellectual setup. Remember the "homo habilis " taunt. These guys are homo novus. They don't really need sexual participation to replicate their genes. I admired Leonard's attempt to take an evolved position. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Wallace "The intellectual is someone who has found something more interesting than sex"

[goblyn-ina-trenchcoat]

Lucky Penny. This is important to you. Can't we get passed the Madonna/whore thing? One of my attractions to this show is that the characters don't judge each other. I have even thought this approach was part of the show's intentional anti-anti-intellectual setup. Remember the "homo habilis " taunt. These guys are homo novus. They don't really need sexual participation to replicate their genes. I admired Leonard's attempt to take an evolved position. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Wallace "The intellectual is someone who has found something more interesting than sex"

not sure what 80s pop stars have to do with this?

im happy intellectuals have found a way to remove love and bonding and meaning from sex.

(you know in a smart way)

the greatest expression of affection reduced too mastrbation as a team effort.

i think ill take that tissue now.

[BangerMain]

ok lets see.

miss kim=enemy spy

DR.stef=crazy

DR.plimpton=skank

old lady in limo=skank

priya=crazy

alice=skank

 

yep leonerd is a magnet for crazy and or trashy women.

yet that is basically leonerds entire list of sex partners. (not including penny)

falls far short of pennys 30 or more.

Ok. I'll bite.

 

How many of Penny's 30+ sex partners can you name?

Edited December 20, 2012 by BangerMain

[Nogravitasatall]

not sure what 80s pop stars have to do with this?

im happy intellectuals have found a way to remove love and bonding and meaning from sex.

(you know in a smart way)

the greatest expression of affection reduced too mastrbation as a team effort.

i think ill take that tissue now.

I'm trying to give you an out here. I now think you over value sex. And sex is not the greatest expression of affection. Agape and Eros etc.

But I laughed at tissue. Go ahead. Be my guest.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Nogravitasatall

[C-Trayne]

very true. it is code.we all are exposed to the same images and words,

but from our individual "spot" in the audience we have our own view.

not sayin anyone is wrong,just reporting from my spot.

 

theres a difference though between viewing the show from "our spot" and tunnel vision...

[goblyn-ina-trenchcoat]

I've dragged this tread wayyyy off topic.

my fault.

[Nogravitasatall]

Cool. In the sense of the ILY being a game changer, on another thread @ar diem suggested that the show is >past< the apex of its trajectory, so s6 is >past< the beginning of the end. Does the loss of the narrative peril regarding the L/P take the the energy out go the show a la Moonlighting (Bruce Wiilis/Cybill Shepherd), or to use a rocketry metaphor, is this just firing up stage 2? I'm going to say that the ILY is a small boost ( throttles to 103%) and it makes me happy - and the Shamy and Howardette are the strap-on boosters. It is not a game hanger.

( this post has been edited to reflect ar diem intended "past the apex")

Edited December 20, 2012 by Nogravitasatall

[Ar Diem]

How is it a betrayal?   Because two single people tried to have sex and one of them regretted it?   And it turns out they never did have sex anyway?  

 

 

 

It is funny.  People here have said that the reason Penny will never cheat is because the show learned its lesson from the fans outrage.  According to you there was nothing to be outraged about yet peope obviously were... hmmmm.  According to some here everyone on the show was against it but Lorre made the call to do it anyway.  Why would anyone have been against it?

 

Oh and to your critique of my breakdown, I meant the second set would always hate her and probably Raj moving forward.

[Ar Diem]

Cool. In the sense of the ILY being a game changer, on another thread @ar diem suggested that the show is at the apex of its trajectory, so s6 is the beginning of the end. Does the loss of the narrative peril regarding the L/P take the the energy out go the show a la Moonlighting (Bruce Wiilis/Cybill Shepherd), or to use a rocketry metaphor, is this just firing up stage 2? I'm going to say that the ILY is a small boost ( throttles to 103%) and it makes me happy - and the Shamy and Howardette are the strap-on boosters. It is not a game hanger.

 

 

No.  I never said we were at the apex.  I believe we have already passed the midpoint and we are on the downside.  If we were at the apex you would be suggesting the show could go for 13 seasons.  I think anything past 8 and the show will be running on fumes like "The Office" did.

[Nogravitasatall]

Ok. Didn't intend to misquote you. ( Have corrected prior post) Wasn't actually doing the math, just visualising the trajectory and projecting own view on emotional apex for L/P part of the story. I can't see 13 seasons. Saw Christina Applegate talk about Married with Children at season 13. She said Ed O'Neill hated coming in and they shot eps in 3 days and no fun. Hope for 10 and will still watch even if dreck. It's close to my favourite genre and I personally find it highly relatable.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Nogravitasatall

[C-Trayne]

It is funny.  People here have said that the reason Penny will never cheat is because the show learned its lesson from the fans outrage.  According to you there was nothing to be outraged about yet peope obviously were... hmmmm.  According to some here everyone on the show was against it but Lorre made the call to do it anyway.  Why would anyone have been against it?

 

Oh and to your critique of my breakdown, I meant the second set would always hate her and probably Raj moving forward.

 

Everyone looks at things in a different way i think is the easiest way out of your conundrum here.  While yes it is fact that the actors/actresses on the show were strongly opposed to the idea as well as the writers Lorre went ahead and over ruled their judgment.  Thats just what he does and after all that happened on Two and half men i was surprised at how long it took for something like this to occur.

That being said, if we think about it logically then there technically is nothing to be outraged about.  Yes two single people had sex when one was clearly too drunk to remember her actions.  I think the reason fans took it so badly is because A) She had expressed that she didn't want to sleep with raj, it was in Leonard's bed, and C) Leonard/Penny's past together.

 

I mean in real life it is a douche move to go after a friends ex especially in his bed, that is true.  However, they really did nothing wrong if you look at the big picture.  Leonard was in a relationship at the time that Penny thought wasn't going to end and she was depressed.  In her drunken state her brain reached out for anything to ease her pain, in this case achieving the flood of dopamine through orgasm likely seemed logical.

 

I admit, personally, i hate the scene and feel like it does scar both characters even if that wasn't the intent.  Its a hard line to walk when dealing with situations like this and I think Lorre did infact make a pretty large blunder in pushing this scene through.  However, looking at where we are now i feel like this is all behind the characters and honestly should be dropped.  It happened, its over, and the characters have moved on.  L/P are in a place now that is far stronger than it has been in the past and they just seem to be getting stronger and stronger.