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Penny Finally Says I Love You To Leonard But Is It A Game Changer?


Superlovelexi
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Everyone looks at things in a different way i think is the easiest way out of your conundrum here.  While yes it is fact that the actors/actresses on the show were strongly opposed to the idea as well as the writers Lorre went ahead and over ruled their judgment.  Thats just what he does and after all that happened on Two and half men i was surprised at how long it took for something like this to occur.

That being said, if we think about it logically then there technically is nothing to be outraged about.  Yes two single people had sex when one was clearly too drunk to remember her actions.  I think the reason fans took it so badly is because A) She had expressed that she didn't want to sleep with raj, B) it was in Leonard's bed, and C) Leonard/Penny's past together.

 

I mean in real life it is a douche move to go after a friends ex especially in his bed, that is true.  However, they really did nothing wrong if you look at the big picture.  Leonard was in a relationship at the time that Penny thought wasn't going to end and she was depressed.  In her drunken state her brain reached out for anything to ease her pain, in this case achieving the flood of dopamine through orgasm likely seemed logical.

 

I admit, personally, i hate the scene and feel like it does scar both characters even if that wasn't the intent.  Its a hard line to walk when dealing with situations like this and I think Lorre did infact make a pretty large blunder in pushing this scene through.  However, looking at where we are now i feel like this is all behind the characters and honestly should be dropped.  It happened, its over, and the characters have moved on.  L/P are in a place now that is far stronger than it has been in the past and they just seem to be getting stronger and stronger.

it will haunt penny and the show untill she redeems herself.

and its not just r/p, s5 saw penny play games with leonerd that were just cruel.

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Ok. Didn't intend to misquote you. ( Have corrected prior post) Wasn't actually doing the math, just visualising the trajectory and projecting own view on emotional apex for L/P part of the story. I can't see 13 seasons. Saw Christina Applegate talk about Married with Children at season 13. She said Ed O'Neill hated coming in and they shot eps in 3 days and no fun. Hope for 10 and will still watch even if dreck. It's close to my favourite genre and I personally find it highly relatable.

 

 

No worries.  I still watch "The Office" or I should now say "The Dwight Show" but it should have stopped after 8. 

 

I can imagine how Ed must have hated those last seasons of MWC.  The effects of that pace are cumaltive and even with taking long breaks it wears them down.  I think they get bored in their roles too. 

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Everyone looks at things in a different way i think is the easiest way out of your conundrum here.  While yes it is fact that the actors/actresses on the show were strongly opposed to the idea as well as the writers Lorre went ahead and over ruled their judgment.  Thats just what he does and after all that happened on Two and half men i was surprised at how long it took for something like this to occur.

That being said, if we think about it logically then there technically is nothing to be outraged about.  Yes two single people had sex when one was clearly too drunk to remember her actions.  I think the reason fans took it so badly is because A) She had expressed that she didn't want to sleep with raj, B) it was in Leonard's bed, and C) Leonard/Penny's past together.

 

I mean in real life it is a douche move to go after a friends ex especially in his bed, that is true.  However, they really did nothing wrong if you look at the big picture.  Leonard was in a relationship at the time that Penny thought wasn't going to end and she was depressed.  In her drunken state her brain reached out for anything to ease her pain, in this case achieving the flood of dopamine through orgasm likely seemed logical.

 

I admit, personally, i hate the scene and feel like it does scar both characters even if that wasn't the intent.  Its a hard line to walk when dealing with situations like this and I think Lorre did infact make a pretty large blunder in pushing this scene through.  However, looking at where we are now i feel like this is all behind the characters and honestly should be dropped.  It happened, its over, and the characters have moved on.  L/P are in a place now that is far stronger than it has been in the past and they just seem to be getting stronger and stronger.

 

 

See you keep making it about the characters.  I am making it about the show and what it does to and with the characters.  I don't blame Penny or Raj, I blame the show.  The show is the one that dogs Penny and has made Raj and Leonard douches.

 

You think the Penny tried to sleep with Raj because she was drunk and depressed. You could just as easily start with the "sex" and move backwards.  Loore wanted them in bed together so they came up with a plausible reason and made her drunk and depressed.  When you look at it in those terms you can be more clinical about it.

 

You also want to sell this idea that they are in a stronger place but for all I know they may be on shaky ground again before the end of the season.  The Alex character is there for a reason.  Hopefully she is there to move them along because this "will they, won't they" crap is getting old.

 

Oh, and I am not outraged.  I am sad they have made these characters less believable and less likeable over time.

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To entertain self wrote this in a local vernacular. Probably not funny and no more persuasive counter arguement than earlier standard English. Will try not to chase that last word. No offence intended.

Cobber,

I reckon you are coming the raw prawn. The Penny/Raj thing was just a furphy. Lorre would have to be a right galah or have a few roos loose in the top paddock to set up Penny (a beaut sheila) as the town bike. She was just full as a goog. She has never pulled a train or been seen near a Doggie (go Dogs!). Leonard is just a thick gubba with no clue and Raj is a shirtlifter with too much brass and not enough sense. Howard is a old snowdropper and Sheldon is a deadset drongo. But the show is deadly. And mate, its popular as XXXX in Brisvegas during schoolies. Anything else and ya just gamin.

Fair dinkum

M
 

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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See you keep making it about the characters.  I am making it about the show and what it does to and with the characters.  I don't blame Penny or Raj, I blame the show.  The show is the one that dogs Penny and has made Raj and Leonard douches.

 

You think the Penny tried to sleep with Raj because she was drunk and depressed. You could just as easily start with the "sex" and move backwards.  Loore wanted them in bed together so they came up with a plausible reason and made her drunk and depressed.  When you look at it in those terms you can be more clinical about it.

 

You also want to sell this idea that they are in a stronger place but for all I know they may be on shaky ground again before the end of the season.  The Alex character is there for a reason.  Hopefully she is there to move them along because this "will they, won't they" crap is getting old.

 

Oh, and I am not outraged.  I am sad they have made these characters less believable and less likeable over time.

 

guilty as charged unfortunetly haha I tend to analyze things like this a bit too much.  I like to think of why the writers made thee characters do things rather than just saying "this happened because the writers said so."  I mean it makes sense and you are right that it is definitely the show and the writers who are screwing things up and not the characters.  But i don't know how you can classify leonard as a douche? lol

 

Also i personally do think that they are in a better place right now tho i can understand why you may not.  However, i will say as i have before and i know it hurts waiting, but

 

*Minor spoiler*

 

i think Episode 12 will help clear up the Alex situation

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  But i don't know how you can classify leonard as a douche? lol

 

 

I didn't read the spoiler.  I like to wait.

 

Leonard was making out with a girl that Howard was interested in before Howard was informed,  Dr. Stephanie, and he tried to cheat on Priya.

 

Douche x2

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To entertain self wrote this in a local vernacular. Probably not funny and no more persuasive counter arguement than earlier standard English. Will try not to chase that last word. No offence intended.

Cobber,

I reckon you are coming the raw prawn. The Penny/Raj thing was just a furphy. Lorre would have to be a right galah or have a few roos loose in the top paddock to set up Penny (a beaut sheila) as the town bike. She was just full as a goog. She has never pulled a train or been seen near a Doggie (go Dogs!). Leonard is just a thick gubba with no clue and Raj is a shirtlifter with too much brass and not enough sense. Howard is a old snowdropper and Sheldon is a deadset drongo. But the show is deadly. And mate, its popular as XXXX in Brisvegas during schoolies. Anything else and ya just gamin.

Fair dinkum

M

and op cit.

I wont pretend that I understood even half of that. :icon_cheesygrin:

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Leonard was making out with a girl that Howard was interested in before Howard was informed,  Dr. Stephanie, and he tried to cheat on Priya.

 

Douche x2

 

Well , the thing is no character in perfect...if they were perfect then there would have been nothing for us to see...

Yes, Leonard should have informed Howard about the Stephanie thing before... but Leonard feeling guilt was a part of the story...if this were not shown then I would have called him a douche..

 

And regarding cheating on Priya with Alice... I think its a pretty simple moral dilemma that anyone , most probably guys could relate to, with his girlfriend in India and a girl throwing herself at him , it was easy to understand why he was so tempted . 

 

And from the show point of view..his interactions with both Penny and Sheldon were pretty funny and good...as Leonard tried to get some approval from both and both Penny and Sheldon's responses fitted their characters well.... I especially liked that Penny quickly knew how to handle this scenario, either accept that you're cheating on Priya or you cannot be with Alice. All these made him look like a douche but in very believable way

 

 

But in the end he goes to Priya and apologizes immediately(this was most important part of the story)....and the news that Priya already cheating on Leonard was quite predictable but still was good as everyone was waiting for their break-up....

 

So , what Leonard learnt in that episode is that he could never cheat on his girlfriend no matter what happens...

 
Finally Leonard attempting to be the good guy despite being the bad guy was pretty believable. It was just a simple moral story about wanting everything but not being honest...executed with a perfect twist ..which made the output perfect..because ,these characters reacting to real-life scenario is when show the flourishes....
 
 
And a similar story happened with Sheldon in the spock doll episode...
 
 
 Leonard                    -----------------------------------           Sheldon 
 
  Priya                       ------------------------------------           Broken Toy
 
  Alice                       ------------------------------------           Leonard's Toy
 
  wants to do Alice     -------------------------------------           wants to play with Leonard's toy
 
  is conflicted..so       -------------------------------------            is conflicted...tries to take advice from spock doll
  takes advice from P/S
 
 but in the end does not  ----------------------------------          but in the end does not go with it and apologizes
go with it and apologizes
 
So, is Sheldon a douche in this story ???
 
Basically , what the writers were telling us in both these episodes was that even though Leonard and Sheldon when presented with the opportunity to do things which they actually want to do (but they know that they are wrong) they can't bring themselves to do it , because deep-down they both are pretty good guys...as simple as that :)
Edited by vasu
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I didn't read the spoiler.  I like to wait.

 

Leonard was making out with a girl that Howard was interested in before Howard was informed,  Dr. Stephanie, and he tried to cheat on Priya.

 

Douche x2

 

You can't say that, if you do it means we agree there.   :icon_razz:   What's up with that?   :icon_lol:    

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I think maybe it means you can't make entertainment without douches. Name an entertaining show about saintly people who are always better than us. And tell me how it rated and how long it ran. Please.

(And why did douche become a perjorative. We don't say that. Blow me down, thats odd :-))

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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*Minor spoiler*

 

i think Episode 12 will help clear up the Alex situation

 

 

Good :) I like Alex okay, but I don't want her breaking up Penny and Leonard.  L/P aren't my favorite couple on show anymore, but I do still want them to end up together and I like that Penny finally said to Leonard "I love you."  It was a sweet moment between that was long overdue, but nicely handled by both actors IMPO.   

Edited by Superlovelexi

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They didnt have sex.

when penny woke up,her reaction said everything. not only did they have sex penny expected what she did with raj would fix him.

she was insulted that her skills didnt fix him.

it will haunt penny and the show untill she redeems herself.

and its not just r/p, s5 saw penny play games with leonerd that were just cruel.

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I just wanted to poke my head in here because I didn't know that everyone was against the idea of Raj and Penny sleeping together and Lorre pushed ahead with it. Wtf? How could he think that was a good idea, surely when EVERYONE tells you it's a bad idea maybe you should stop and think about it for a second? What was he hoping to obtain with that? It sounds like the whole thing is pretty unanimously hated by cast, crew and fans alike. :s

 

I personally just try to pretend it never happened. I don't feel like letting something like this ruin my appreciation for the character, especially since it was basically 1 episode out of 100+ episodes, and it didn't seem to have overarching effects on the dynamics later on, although it did piss me off the way Raj brought it up in the last episode. The thing is, all characters will have an episode where they do something stupid that really bums you out, and in cases like this it's just terrible writing choices. In these situations I just try to remember it's the writers that are to be blamed, because the characters aren't real people. As long as they don't stick to their guns when they mess up (and up until last week's episode I didn't think Lorre did), I can forgive them.

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Wtf does her reaction have to do with anything? She couldn't remember anything and acted surprised... u can't just claim that the characters did something that the writers have specifically said they DID NOT do... WTF

 the quote "really.....still cant talk to me?" that says everything.

obviously she remembers what she did. and thinks raj should be over his mute thing because of it.

she drank more booze with leo in previous eps with no memory problems.

the whole she dont remember what happened thing dose not hold up.

this is what "the writers put on screen.

 

 

 

raj is a turd

penny is a skank.

that how the writers want it thats what we got

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I think maybe it means you can't make entertainment without douches. Name an entertaining show about saintly people who are always better than us. And tell me how it rated and how long it ran. Please.

(And why did douche become a perjorative. We don't say that. Blow me down, thats odd :-))

 

I think it really means you can't push your personal agendas on programming without having douches.

 

But to answer your question since sex was not even allowed to be suggested between married couples for 30 or 40 years just pick any one of those wildly popular shows.  Also, it is not about making them saintly (nice extreme there) it is about not crossing certain lines.

 

And please tell me how entertained you were by Raj trying to sleep with a drunken Penny.  How hard were you laughing?  Were you shouting "Go Raj" at your TV?

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the quote "really.....still cant talk to me?" that says everything. obviously she remembers what she did. and thinks raj should be over his mute thing because of it. she drank more booze with leo in previous eps with no memory problems. the whole she dont remember what happened thing dose not hold up. this is what "the writers put on screen.       raj is a turd penny is a skank. that how the writers want it thats what we got
Horseshit. You definitely aren't watching the same show that the rest of us are watching. There's differences of opinion, and there are idiotic ramblings based on facts made up out of thin air and God knows what else. You fall squarely into the latter category, and we're all dumber for having listened to them. You are awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. (Whoever gets that reference wins the Internet for today.) Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2

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Horseshit. You definitely aren't watching the same show that the rest of us are watching. There's differences of opinion, and there are idiotic ramblings based on facts made up out of thin air and God knows what else. You fall squarely into the latter category, and we're all dumber for having listened to them. You are awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. (Whoever gets that reference wins the Internet for today.) Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2

 

 

If the ramblings were so idiotic they should have been easy to refute yet you resort to name calling.  Goblin is more negative about that scene than I am but I get where he/she is coming from.

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<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="MJPollard" data-cid="77966" data-time="1356118757"><p>

Horseshit. You definitely aren't watching the same show that the rest of us are watching. There's differences of opinion, and there are idiotic ramblings based on facts made up out of thin air and God knows what else. You fall squarely into the latter category, and we're all dumber for having listened to them. You are awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. (Whoever gets that reference wins the Internet for today.) Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2</p></blockquote>

Billy Madison!!! You sir win big both because I agree and that was funny

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I think it really means you can't push your personal agendas on programming without having douches.

But to answer your question since sex was not even allowed to be suggested between married couples for 30 or 40 years just pick any one of those wildly popular shows. Also, it is not about making them saintly (nice extreme there) it is about not crossing certain lines.

And please tell me how entertained you were by Raj trying to sleep with a drunken Penny. How hard were you laughing? Were you shouting "Go Raj" at your TV?

I was thinking more of douche as a term similar to say dickhead or scumbag or fuckwit. It might be I don't get the idiom. You can make comedy without sexual content and sexual relationships. But as we being here attest, adding the the frank depictions of sexual adult behaviour to popular entertainment has become a common method of heightening the audience engagement ( to sell more product and compete) - communicating straight to that lizard hind brain. If you define douche as someone who sexually "cheats" explicitly on screen then we have seen that fairly frequently since I guess the 70s. We had full frontal female nudity, gay relationships and explicit sexual infidelity here on broadcast TV in drama at 8.30pm in the late 1970s I recall: look up a show called No96. It trickled down. For other values of douche, we have always had sexual infidelity in entertainment so far as I know, though maybe not as explicitly disclosed. USA had the Hayes code for many years so things got throttled back in cinema and consequently TV.

As for Raj yes I was entertained. I laughed. I literally thought "fuck me, how is the maestro going sell this?". A real big cliffhanger in s4. And we are talking about 10 seasons now. It gave the show juice.

And it was a community service announce regarding the hazards of binge drinking, so props there too.

Hang on, do you think Lorre is making Penny his voodoo doll for all the women he wants to get back at or is there more? Can you articulate what his agenda is?

Or maybe it should be a new topic?

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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Horseshit. You definitely aren't watching the same show that the rest of us are watching. There's differences of opinion, and there are idiotic ramblings based on facts made up out of thin air and God knows what else. You fall squarely into the latter category, and we're all dumber for having listened to them. You are awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. (Whoever gets that reference wins the Internet for today.) Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2

ROFLMFAO!!!! wow that was superb :icon_eek:

can hardly wait to see your reaction to my break down of couch conversation in 5x1.

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If the ramblings were so idiotic they should have been easy to refute yet you resort to name calling.  Goblin is more negative about that scene than I am but I get where he/she is coming from.

thank you. i just think that the question, still cant talk to me?

indicates that whatever happened prior to the question was expected to change raj. the rest is fill in the blanks.

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Dude she woke up in bed with him naked what else would she think had happened? They decided naked twister might be fun to try??? How bout some common sense here...

Second, we don't know how much or for how long they continued drinking... they can't show everything in only 20min, stuff does happen behind the scenes (well were supposed to imagine so anyways)

I think hour over thinking a question she asked that was simply supposed to bring some attempted humor into a shitty situation

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