Ship Zone Leonard And Penny Shippers Thread (Possible Spoilers)

[Guitars1964]

I tend to feel like penny gets a lot of stick on this forum sometimes, so I like to, when I can, try and defend her actions. I think I have a tendency to see the good in people before the bad and that could be why I am always in her corner. I have always seen her as someone who doesn't think before she acts, she just lives on her gut and acts spontaneously, usually to her detriment. Like when she jumped at the chance to go out with david under hill, or the thing we were discussing earlier with Stuart. I don't think she has ever done something intentionally to hurt leonard. I think she does these things and then realises later on how that must of made him feel. I suppose the raj thing would be a good example of that too, but I still find it hard to defend her on that one. In my opinion sleeping, or intending to sleep with a close friend of your ex isn't such a bad thing, they were consenting adults after all. But I feel like due to the history between l/p, makes it much worse. Yet I have never thought any less of her because of it, and i dont worry about it ever happening again. I still feel like she didn't mean any harm in doing it, and she was drunk! I think we have all done stupid stuff when drunk! Oh and please excuse any spelling mistakes or anything in this, I am at work right now hehe

 

Well, I've posted my criticisms of Penny, for sure.  But I suspect many of us that have done that are big supporters of Penny, which is why some of her actions drive us nuts.  And, not for nothin', but being drunk doesn't get anyone a free pass in behavior.  Especially if one has a history of over-drinking - gotta know what may happen when the bottle is drained.

 

And, before I get too serious on Penny, I shall again remind myself that the poor girl is held hostage by TBBT writers - now that DOES get her a free pass in behavior sometimes! ;>)

[I.Am.Molly]

Especially if one has a history of over-drinking - gotta know what may happen when the bottle is drained.

 

Now, this is one point I always dislike. I will admit that Penny did drink more often in season four, however I don't think this could count as over-drinking. There has been scenes where she has been shown as drinking an excessive amount, the two times when Bev came to visit, when she was playing twister with the girls, that new years eve night when she came back to Leonards, and I have a feeling i'm missing out one, maybe two. Every other time she has only been shown with a glass of wine in hand, not drunk. I have never thought she over drinks, or even really binge drinks. I would say she drinks when she is sad, but, speaking from a woman's point of view, that is just something that happens sometimes. That and a heck of a lot of junk food!

 

We all have different opinions on what constitutes as what in terms of behaviour, so I understand everyone will have a different view on what Penny has done. But shes a good girl at heart

[Guitars1964]

Now, this is one point I always dislike. I will admit that Penny did drink more often in season four, however I don't think this could count as over-drinking. There has been scenes where she has been shown as drinking an excessive amount, the two times when Bev came to visit, when she was playing twister with the girls, that new years eve night when she came back to Leonards, and I have a feeling i'm missing out one, maybe two. Every other time she has only been shown with a glass of wine in hand, not drunk. I have never thought she over drinks, or even really binge drinks. I would say she drinks when she is sad, but, speaking from a woman's point of view, that is just something that happens sometimes. That and a heck of a lot of junk food!

 

We all have different opinions on what constitutes as what in terms of behaviour, so I understand everyone will have a different view on what Penny has done. But shes a good girl at heart

 

Agreed on your last sentence, and 6x24 at the airport made everything better for me overall in terms of their relationship.  It's just that, in the past, I wasn't clear about what the writers were trying to convey with her sometimes.  But, as you say, we'll all have slightly different takes on it.

[ajond]

Agreed on your last sentence, and 6x24 at the airport made everything better for me overall in terms of their relationship.  It's just that, in the past, I wasn't clear about what the writers were trying to convey with her sometimes.  But, as you say, we'll all have slightly different takes on it.

Actually the thing that irritates me more than anything else is the constant (and , I believe deliberate) trashing of Penny. The drinking and the casual sex are the obvious culprits. The reason I am so annoyed is that I cannot see any logic in it. If it was all done for laughs then I can only say it has not been successful. Maybe I should just ignore all the trashing in the past and rejoice in the current situation. I've said this before, but I'm sure if the writers (even Molaro) see a funny line in trashing Penny they will do it.

Edited June 15, 2013 by ajond

[hamerman55]

Actually the thing that irritates me more than anything else is the constant (and , I believe deliberate) trashing of Penny. The drinking and the casual sex are the obvious culprits. The reason I am so annoyed is that I cannot see any logic in it. If it was all done for laughs then I can only say it has not been successful. Maybe I should just ignore all the trashing in the past and rejoice in the current situation. I've said this before, but I'm sure if the writers (even Molaro) see a funny line in trashing Penny they will do it.

I think they should watch the first season (and maybe the second) very carefully. Penny was a delight then. She was funny, they did not portray her as a slut, and she was good to the guys. Clearly enough people liked her to get the season renewed. It didn't become the Sheldon Show until mainly the third season. Most of the trashing of Penny has been ascribed to Lorre insisting that his original conception of the girl with Leonard and Sheldon had to be a world-weary slut. There was a very good reason why they basically patterned Penny on Kaley Cuoco, based on her screen test. She was very likable. I believe that if the writers just accepted where she is now, and write her as originally conceived in the first season or two, we'd have a funnier, more likable Penny. The drunken, slutty Penny, even though the timelines don't support her sluttiness, has never been funny. Pitiable maybe, due to her mistake in dumping Leonard, but not funny. Since she and Leonard have essentially committed to each other, they've been writing her much more sympathetically. That she has commitment issues is fine, but let's lay off on her as a slut and a drunk. 

 

Having said that, I suspect Penny is really happy for the first time in her adult life. Sometimes that is a bit scary, since you have so much to lose. 

[SRAM]

I like Penny except for the fact that she keeps hurting Leonard. I like how in the second half of season six that has been reduced a lot , but even in the Valentines episode she ruined his plans and hurt him, which led to the final confrontation.

[hamerman55]

I'm with you, although I don't think he was so much hurt in the VD episode as angry.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[Zhalen565]

I'm with you, although I don't think he was so much hurt in the VD episode as angry. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Probably the first time we have seen him angry in this way. Normally they don't speak for days after a Penny meltdown. This time he walked to 4A giving a simple "Yep" reply to her and the look she gave to him at that point has always made me have her thinking "I've really screwed this up". Then for once in his life Leonard confronts her about her actions instead of retreating, hallelujah. As we then see things definitely change for the better. A complete contrast to his thoughts in episode 100, " this is where everything goes wrong, when we talk"

[eirwinrommel]

Sorry I haven't said a whole lot lately, I just can't seem to whip up much enthusiasm while waiting to see how the writers are going to screw around L/P. I've liked many other people's comments just not a whole lot to say right now. Maybe after comic-con after we hear something definite about season 7.

[rickfromillinois]

Now, this is one point I always dislike. I will admit that Penny did drink more often in season four, however I don't think this could count as over-drinking. There has been scenes where she has been shown as drinking an excessive amount, the two times when Bev came to visit, when she was playing twister with the girls, that new years eve night when she came back to Leonards, and I have a feeling i'm missing out one, maybe two. Every other time she has only been shown with a glass of wine in hand, not drunk. I have never thought she over drinks, or even really binge drinks. I would say she drinks when she is sad, but, speaking from a woman's point of view, that is just something that happens sometimes. That and a heck of a lot of junk food!

 

We all have different opinions on what constitutes as what in terms of behaviour, so I understand everyone will have a different view on what Penny has done. But shes a good girl at heart

If you drink so much that you can't remember what happened the previous night, you drink too much.   If you make a statement that you may have to go for some distance to find a bar where someone inside hasn't seen you naked, you drink too much.   If you go to bed with someone you normally wouldn't because you have been drinking, you drink too much.  If you go to Disneyland for a make-over to look like one of their characters and you brink alcohol and get drunk, you drink too much.   The writers have often portrayed Penny in a very poor light if you stand back and think about what they are having her do.  Another example is her taking clothes out of the bin for clothes to be donated to charity.  These incidents that they have Penny involved in may be done for comedic reasons but I think that they end up doing the character a diservice. 

[hamerman55]

If you drink so much that you can't remember what happened the previous night, you drink too much.   If you make a statement that you may have to go for some distance to find a bar where someone inside hasn't seen you naked, you drink too much.   If you go to bed with someone you normally wouldn't because you have been drinking, you drink too much.  If you go to Disneyland for a make-over to look like one of their characters and you brink alcohol and get drunk, you drink too much.   The writers have often portrayed Penny in a very poor light if you stand back and think about what they are having her do.  Another example is her taking clothes out of the bin for clothes to be donated to charity.  These incidents that they have Penny involved in may be done for comedic reasons but I think that they end up doing the character a diservice. 

This is the sort of thing that makes it look like Lorre can't let his original concept of the girl in the show alone. He has to prove that he was right, when instead, he ends out trying to destroy the character we all loved. I think that Lorre has hated the Penny character of the first two seasons, and was the impetus to trash and darken the character back to what he thought she should be. Handing over the reigns to Molaro was smart, as he probably couldn't bring himself to admit that his concept wasn't working within the narrative. It is a testament to the show that it was successful in spite of one of the major characters being run down, and the character popularity pools support this. All the characters have supporters, although Sheldon's are the most vocal.

 

The first good sign we had of Penny softening back to her old self was in the pivotal VD episode, when she asked Leonard to be her Valentine. Since then, she's been much more like earlier, but with some evidence of scars of the past couple of years. So possibly Penny's character is now a merger of the original Lorre concept and the Kaley Cuoco based character of seasons 1 and 2. I wish they would get that slutty and alcoholic Penny IS NOT FUNNY. It is sad. As much as people deride introducing too much drama into TBBT, the way they portrayed Penny during the dark period was pretty damn dramatic.

 

In many respects, Penny's character reflects her relationship with Leonard. When they are close, she is doing good. When they are not, she's having trouble. Narratively, it makes sense to have a period where we're shown why Penny and Leonard need to be together. She's a mess without him, and he's stronger when he has a solid relationship with her. The latter has only been apparently recently, but he has only recently had some confirmation that she needed him as much as he needed her.

[I.Am.Molly]

If you drink so much that you can't remember what happened the previous night, you drink too much.   If you make a statement that you may have to go for some distance to find a bar where someone inside hasn't seen you naked, you drink too much.   If you go to bed with someone you normally wouldn't because you have been drinking, you drink too much. 

 I completely agree. However those are isolated incidents, she doesn't drink like that every week on the show. She doesn't even drink like that every couple of weeks on the show. In fact she is only ever shown a couple of times per season getting drunk, therefore she doesn't drink too much. Binge drinks on occasion? Drinks far too much sometimes? Yeah probably, but what girl/guy in their mid twenties hasn't?

The statement about having to go some distance to find somewhere where someone hasn't seen her naked... that is one of the comments that is hard to defend. Yeah, our girl is a bit promiscuous, as I said, i feel like she is a good girl at heart, i'm not going to try and say she is perfect! Haha. I do feel that the 'Penny is a slut' thing, gets brought up for laughs more than anything. Although i never take it too seriously, mainly because it is never backed up by any actions on the show. Over the six seasons, I think we are yet to see the men stumbling out of Penny's apartment first thing in the morning, that Sheldon suggested there was. And lets not forget she once went six months without sex at all. She's probably a bit loose when drunk, but i still refuse to call her a slut. I think her promiscuity is often exaggerated, like ajond said, for laughs.

 

 

I like Penny except for the fact that she keeps hurting Leonard.

 

I agree that Penny has hurt Leonard in the past a few times, but she has never done it intentionally. It goes back to what i said before about her being spontaneous and acting on things without thinking over the consequences. For example, the episode where Leonard buys the time machine. She was angry at him for causing her to be late for work, and lashed out in the heat of the moment, ridiculing something that was part of who he was and obviously hurt him. but as soon as she cooled down and realized what she had said had hurt him, she apologised. The incident with Howard could be a good example of this too.

 

 

Actually the thing that irritates me more than anything else is the constant (and , I believe deliberate) trashing of Penny.

In my opinion, they didn't trash her. What i think they were doing in season four, was showing a young woman going through, not only a break up, but a break up where she still had to live across the hall from her ex, who she still had feelings for. I think it was made pretty clear that Penny regretted the break up, almost as soon as she had done it, and found it hard to watch Leonard move on with Dr Slutbunny, while she was still very much upset about the break up (I think tensor brilliantly captured this in his fic). Because of this, she done what I imagine many young women would have done in the same situation, and turn to the odd drink for comfort. It was their way of showing that Penny wasn't handling the break-up as well as she probably thought she would, and honestly i'm glad they showed her like that. I think i would have been more annoyed if they showed her being her usual, bubbly self in season four and make it seem like she couldn't care less about what had happened. She was quite immature back then, and probably saw no other way to deal with her feelings than to hide them with the occasional drink. I think the writers were simply showing a young, immature girl going through a break-up that she regretted, and like i said, i prefer that they done that than tried to make it out like she wasn't affected by it.

 

And please guys, don't think i am attacking your opinion, or think that you dislike Penny, i am simply trying to explain what i feel are the reasons behind what the writers have done with Penny

Edited June 16, 2013 by I.Am.Molly

[hamerman55]

Sorry I haven't said a whole lot lately, I just can't seem to whip up much enthusiasm while waiting to see how the writers are going to screw around L/P. I've liked many other people's comments just not a whole lot to say right now. Maybe after comic-con after we hear something definite about season 7.

In many respects, I'm with you on this. What I've written is mostly musing about where we are, and a lot of wishful thinking about directions I'd like the show to choose. Last season, a lot of my wishes were granted. I recall a conversation with a fellow TBBT fan, stating that what I really hoped to see was Penny admit that she was insecure in the relationship, be jealous of other women chasing after Leonard and be afraid Leonard would dump her for being a bitch. Not that Leonard would dump her, but almost exactly what we got. Penny has admitted that Leonard is at least as important to her, as she is to him. Essentially, that there be balance in the relationship, which we now have.

 

I am quite concerned that the writers and show-runners will start to screw things up again with L/P. It is good that Lorre has a new show, which may be a better outlet for his issues. If Molaro stays as show-runner, good things are likely for L/P, and we can have the joy of watching their relationship flourish. Then they can focus on more science stuff. The tenure issue, Leonard's collaboration with Hawking, Sheldon's collaboration with Barry, and Raj's ability to talk to women are all great places to go. The relationship issues can be interesting too, without making things too crazy. Bernie can keep tweaking Penny about committing to Leonard, and Shamy will have to deal with figuring out what the hell they are doing altogether. If any character needs a little rehabilitation, it is Sheldon. So lots to look forward to.

[vasu]

I thought Penny calling out Leonard after he sleeps with Dr.SlutBunny was pretty bitchy , the problem mainly was because it never looked like she was upset because he moved or she had some feelings for him , it only felt that she was upset because Leonard had moved on before she had...... ... and of course Leonard looks like a complete idoit/wuss for not standing up to Penny and trying to apologize which he had absolutely no reason to... she made it quite clear to him that she did not love him , broke up with in-front of all his friends , and wanted to be just friends again with him.... So poor charcterization of both Leonard and Penny .....  

 

And the booty call episode was probably the worst Penny I have ever seen ..... the fact the she shows absolutely no sympathy toward Leonard after she leads him on is despicable behavior , what makes it worse is the reason she breaks up with him was to not lead him on , and here she does exactly that but still shows no concern or care....

[hamerman55]

@I.Am.Molly, I agree with your comment about season 4 Penny not handling her mistake in breaking up with Leonard very well. While she has had more dating experience than the guys, she has little or no experience with mature relationships. She would date a guy, they would break up, and she would move on. @vasu's point is good too, in that boys and relationships were disposable to her up to that point. The booty call was a good example, in that she was mad at Leonard for inadvertently destroying her ability to continue to regard them as such. 

 

Leonard presented her with a serious problem - this was a guy she didn't want to lose, and she didn't really understand or want to accept why. She did love him, and he was good for her too. He just was so not the sort of guy she expected for this to be the case, and I think it scared her that she had actually found someone that she had long term feeling about. I'm reminded of an episode in "Friends" where it comes out that Ross has war gamed out his entire relationship with Rachel. Where they will live, what the kids' names will be, the whole package. Rachel is of course freaked out by this, and points out that her thinking has only extended to who's apartment they will sleep at on a given night, or where they might go eat dinner. One could imagine that Penny glimpsed thoughts like that in her (Leonard was looking like the one) and it scared her. Quite frankly, Leonard's ILY at this point was not that big a deal. It is clear that Penny regards the statement "I Love You" as a huge deal, representing a sea change in a relationship. This is a trope in TV, generally. I think that Penny realizing that she reeled off a section of dialog from one of Leonard's favorite movies without thinking about it, and them both recognizing that she was being drawn into the nerd lifestyle, was very disturbing to her. The booty call was prompted by Penny learning that Leonard had "broken" her, and she could not go back to her happy-go-lucky, disposable boys lifestyle. She fought it for two and a half years, but Leonard owned her.

 

Dr. Slutbunny is really a foreshadowing of Alex, in that Leonard IS attractive to other beautiful, intelligent women, and serious competition to Penny. To some extent, she still thinks dating is a competition (her reaction to the scene in the restaurant in "The Tangible Affection Proof" is evidence of this. Gretchen didn't deserve to "win". What really sucks in this scene is that Penny still hasn't accepted that Leonard is the catch that he is. It is not clear to me what she isn't finding in Leonard, other than the obvious things that he isn't a rich, handsome movie star). She was angry that Leonard appeared to have moved on, that he had an opportunity to move on and that he didn't have to go to any trouble to do so. He was just there, and this hot, sexually aggressive woman wanted him. She wanted the other guys too, but the point being made is that such a woman would want them. She "lost" the competition on all levels. Leonard got laid before her, another woman showed interest in him immediately after the break up, it didn't appear that he was suffering sufficiently and she was not the only hot girl these guys could get on with. It may be that this episode burst the bubble she was living in, and led to her erratic behavior in the fourth season. Shoot, even asexual Sheldon had a girl friend now. 

 

My sense is that Penny spent the time between the breakup and "The Tangible Affection Proof" fighting herself, still hoping for a dream she probably doesn't really want. I believe it has been said that dreams and fantasies are very hard to give up. Of course, when we do, we often find that reality is so much better. This could be one of the morals of TBBT. Sheldon's fantasy is a Noble prize, and it is destroying his life. Life got really good for Howard when he discarded his masturbation fantasies, and accepted Bernie. Penny really isn't Leonard's fantasy, as she is real and right there. He is not pursuing something he can't have, he's working hard for a reality. 

 

Going forward, it would be reasonable to speculate on the effect of four months apart on Penny's view of her relationship with Leonard. The writers have set up an interesting problem for Penny. It is all on her, and Leonard has shown that he is tough enough to leave it on her. Further, I suspect that Bernie and Amy will have much fun tweaking Penny about proposing to Leonard, if they know of the deal. (A question going forward. Do Amy and Bernie know? They could do a whole episode on THAT.). Penny now has to look Leonard in the eye, get down on one knee, as ASK him to marry her. Beg, in fact. I am impressed with how smart Leonard was in setting this up. Penny has to formally state in clear language that he is the one, and he could quite reasonably tell people that this is what happened. There would be no face-saving for Penny, since for either of them to pretend that Leonard actually did the proposing would negate the meaning of the proposal. Penny not only has to be OK with proposing to Leonard, but also being OK with what it means for her to do so. That she didn't settled for Leonard, that she chose him from all others. I do not think this will be rushed, because I think that the writers can have a lot of fun with it. Much humor can be had at Penny's expense, and it can be truly funny. They could ensure this by making Penny propose in front of the group, just like Howard did. First we have Penny just laying it all out there, with the effusive proposal Leonard requires, and then her daring anyone to risk as ass-kicking if they say anything about it.

[I.Am.Molly]

 It is all on her, and Leonard has shown that he is tough enough to leave it on her. Further, I suspect that Bernie and Amy will have much fun tweaking Penny about proposing to Leonard, if they know of the deal. (A question going forward. Do Amy and Bernie know? They could do a whole episode on THAT.). Penny now has to look Leonard in the eye, get down on one knee, as ASK him to marry her. Beg, in fact. I am impressed with how smart Leonard was in setting this up. Penny has to formally state in clear language that he is the one, and he could quite reasonably tell people that this is what happened. There would be no face-saving for Penny, since for either of them to pretend that Leonard actually did the proposing would negate the meaning of the proposal. Penny not only has to be OK with proposing to Leonard, but also being OK with what it means for her to do so. That she didn't settled for Leonard, that she chose him from all others. I do not think this will be rushed, because I think that the writers can have a lot of fun with it. Much humor can be had at Penny's expense, and it can be truly funny. They could ensure this by making Penny propose in front of the group, just like Howard did. First we have Penny just laying it all out there, with the effusive proposal Leonard requires, and then her daring anyone to risk as ass-kicking if they say anything about it.

 

I totally agree that there could be so much humour from Penny proposing to Leonard, although I hope it is limited to the preparation. Like you said, Amy and Bernadette finding out has the potential to be brilliant, as is Penny trying to figure out the best way to do it. But I don't really want her to beg him to marry her. I think it would remove all sense that these two are on equal ground. I just want her to lay it all out there, tell him that he is the one she wants to be with forever, and all that fluffiness. I also hope it is done in private, not in front of the whole group, but overall I agree with what you are saying, Penny proposing has the potential to be really funny, I think Kaley Cuoco would do a great job of being both funny and emotional during the whole thing.

Okay I think I need to stop talking about the proposal because I will get myself all overexcited! haha

[rickfromillinois]

I am not sure how TPTB are going to handle Penny's actions while Leonard is gone, or if they go into it much at all.   They very well might start the season off with Leonard returning and pick up things from there.   I would like to see or at least hear the other characters mention how Penny handled Leonard's abscense.  I personally do not see her "falling apart" while he is gone, but IMO she is more likely to miss him terribly,  spend allot of time with her friends for support, and perhaps have Sheldon say something about how she was driving him crazy because of her constant talking about Leonard, although I think that he too will have missed Leonard allot.   No matter how the writers have things go, I think that it will be very interesting.

[SRAM]

This is the sort of thing that makes it look like Lorre can't let his original concept of the girl in the show alone. He has to prove that he was right, when instead, he ends out trying to destroy the character we all loved. I think that Lorre has hated the Penny character of the first two seasons, and was the impetus to trash and darken the character back to what he thought she should be. Handing over the reigns to Molaro was smart, as he probably couldn't bring himself to admit that his concept wasn't working within the narrative. It is a testament to the show that it was successful in spite of one of the major characters being run down, and the character popularity pools support this. All the characters have supporters, although Sheldon's are the most vocal.

 

The first good sign we had of Penny softening back to her old self was in the pivotal VD episode, when she asked Leonard to be her Valentine. Since then, she's been much more like earlier, but with some evidence of scars of the past couple of years. So possibly Penny's character is now a merger of the original Lorre concept and the Kaley Cuoco based character of seasons 1 and 2. I wish they would get that slutty and alcoholic Penny IS NOT FUNNY. It is sad. As much as people deride introducing too much drama into TBBT, the way they portrayed Penny during the dark period was pretty damn dramatic.

 

In many respects, Penny's character reflects her relationship with Leonard. When they are close, she is doing good. When they are not, she's having trouble. Narratively, it makes sense to have a period where we're shown why Penny and Leonard need to be together. She's a mess without him, and he's stronger when he has a solid relationship with her. The latter has only been apparently recently, but he has only recently had some confirmation that she needed him as much as he needed her.

Your last paragraph is something I have always believed to be one of the themes of the show. The Penny and Leonard characters were always written to need each other. There was an attraction from the very beginning and they suppose to be soul mates. Your right, Penny was a mess without Leonard, because before she dated him, guys came in and out of her life and there was no commitment, no real love. After they broke up, she was a mess, she tried to look for a guy who had some of the qualities of Leonard (Zack was a nice guy, just stupid) but no one was like Leonard. She became different in Season 6, there is a happiness and secure relationship feeling in her now, and especially in the tenure episode, she feels they are a team now, big step for her (remember it was completely her idea to dress like that). She was not a mess in season 6 she was comfortable and happy, because she has the one thing she needs, Leonard.

Sorry to ramble.

[hamerman55]

I totally agree that there could be so much humour from Penny proposing to Leonard, although I hope it is limited to the preparation. Like you said, Amy and Bernadette finding out has the potential to be brilliant, as is Penny trying to figure out the best way to do it. But I don't really want her to beg him to marry her. I think it would remove all sense that these two are on equal ground. I just want her to lay it all out there, tell him that he is the one she wants to be with forever, and all that fluffiness. I also hope it is done in private, not in front of the whole group, but overall I agree with what you are saying, Penny proposing has the potential to be really funny, I think Kaley Cuoco would do a great job of being both funny and emotional during the whole thing.

Okay I think I need to stop talking about the proposal because I will get myself all overexcited! haha

Well not beg, exactly, but don't hold anything back. Not a response to a crisis, or anything lke that. She needs to decide on her own, and come up with something unique and specific to their relationship. It needs to be a surprise for Leonard. On the one hand, proposing in front of the group would sort of make up for dumping him in front of the guys, but I doubt the writers could restrain themselves from a scene like the airport goodbye, with Sheldon screaming for attention. Given that their relationship is the core of the show, for once have it be just about them, and no Sheldon. Maybe have Leonard come to Penny's apartment at the end of a workday, and find it decorated with candles and Penny in her red dress. It could be private, and the others could be hiding in the hall evesdropping. The other place would be in his lab, where she really connected with him at last. It is also his space, and where he is most comfortable. Somehow Penny proposing to Leonard with a laser in the background sort of sums up the show.

[I.Am.Molly]

Maybe have Leonard come to Penny's apartment at the end of a workday, and find it decorated with candles and Penny in her red dress. It could be private, and the others could be hiding in the hall evesdropping. The other place would be in his lab, where she really connected with him at last. It is also his space, and where he is most comfortable. Somehow Penny proposing to Leonard with a laser in the background sort of sums up the show.

You need to stop! All this Penny proposing talk gets me all excited! Haha

[ArmyGirl]

Well not beg, exactly, but don't hold anything back. Not a response to a crisis, or anything lke that. She needs to decide on her own, and come up with something unique and specific to their relationship. It needs to be a surprise for Leonard. On the one hand, proposing in front of the group would sort of make up for dumping him in front of the guys, but I doubt the writers could restrain themselves from a scene like the airport goodbye, with Sheldon screaming for attention. Given that their relationship is the core of the show, for once have it be just about them, and no Sheldon. Maybe have Leonard come to Penny's apartment at the end of a workday, and find it decorated with candles and Penny in her red dress. It could be private, and the others could be hiding in the hall evesdropping. The other place would be in his lab, where she really connected with him at last. It is also his space, and where he is most comfortable. Somehow Penny proposing to Leonard with a laser in the background sort of sums up the show.

 

I don't want it done in private.  I want Penny to make up all the bad treatment of Leonard from the public dumping to the ruined VD dinner and I think in order to do that Penny has to let the world know she wants to marry Leonard.  Penny gets off too easy majority of the time in the relationship and it's time she steps up to the plate and do right by Leonard. 

 

Let Penny put her heart out there for once and treat Leonard like he is her king the way he has always treated her like she was his queen.  I mean doesn't Leonard deserved the same? So have Penny go big and special and all out for Leonard.

 

Only thing I worry about is the 'IF' you ever decide you want to get married.  For me that is so much power in Penny hands and it's still on her timetable. I feel the writers left a loophole for them wiggy threw if they decide to change direction, again.

Edited June 17, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[Guitars1964]

I don't want it done in private.  I want Penny to make up all the bad treatment of Leonard from the public dumping to the ruin VD dinner and I think in order to do that Penny has to let the world know she wants to marriy Leonard.  Penny gets off to easy majority of the time in the relationship and it's time she steps up to the plate and do right by Leonard. 

 

Let Penny put her heart out there for once and treat Leonard like he is her king the way he has always treated her like she was his queen.  I mean doesn't Leonard deserved the same? So have Penny go big and special and all out for Leonard.

 

Only thing I worry about is the 'IF' you ever decide you want to get married.  For me that is so much power in Penny hands and it's still on her timetable. I feel the writers left a loophole for them wiggy threw if they decide to change direction, again.

 

I kind of liked the "if" because it was Leonard's recognition that Penny was really nervous about getting married, and I think he was trying to take all the pressure off her.  Having said that, were this "real life", I'd say it would have to be understood that Leonard doesn't have to wait forever for Penny to decide.  Not that he'd break the promise and ask her, but rather that, at some undetermined future point, he'd have to tell her that he wants to be in a committed, married relationship and he has to move on to find someone who is of the same mind.  I wouldn't envision that as an ultimatum to force her hand, but rather letting her know that, well, he's moving on.  Unless Leonard decides having Penny in his life in any capacity is better than not at all.

 

Sloppy romantic that I am (but don't tell anybody), I'd like to see a proposal, if it happens, in private.  Of course, that would mean forsaking, for a brief moment, the gag reel and going for the sentimental - not sure the writers will ever agree to that (esp. in light of the way they handled the airport goodbye ILY).  I have generally had the impression, at least as far as the traditional man asks woman approach goes, women prefer the proposal in private, not in front of family and friends, etc.  Leonard may not care, as long as it's not on the Jumbotron (although that would be a cool way to handle it, I think - at some sporting event or concert, and they'd both be crying - it would be the complete opposite of private, but would be entertaining and would tie back nicely to his comment on Valentine's Day).

 

Lastly, I suspect the proposal and wedding, if it ever comes to that (and I think it will), will not be written into the script until the writers know they are writing for the last season.  Of course, my guess is as good as anyone else's here.

[I.Am.Molly]

I don't want it done in private.  I want Penny to make up all the bad treatment of Leonard from the public dumping to the ruin VD dinner and I think in order to do that Penny has to let the world know she wants to marry Leonard.  Penny gets off too easy majority of the time in the relationship and it's time she steps up to the plate and do right by Leonard. 

 

Let Penny put her heart out there for once and treat Leonard like he is her king the way he has always treated her like she was his queen.  I mean doesn't Leonard deserved the same? So have Penny go big and special and all out for Leonard.

 

I don't think Penny get's off easy at all in the relationship, in fact I think it is her who has had to do more, especially in 2.0 L/P. She is the one who has had to grow up and mature during the relationship, and I don't think that was easy at all. Look at the Beta Test, she could have taken the 'easy' route, and just restarted their relationship back to where it had been before, but she was the one who wanted to take things slow so they didn't rush in and mess anything up. Then, she had to deal with Leonard's spontaneous proposal, which couldn't have been easy to deal with. She decided at that point to try and move past it and continue their relationship, instead of breaking up with him then and there, which would have been easier in the long run. At the beginning of season 6, she decided, with a lot of help from her girls, that she had to step up her game and take more interest in what he loves and what he does, which she normally has pretty much no interest in. Although I agree that Leonard has done a lot and been incredibly patient with Penny, to say that she has had it easy, in my opinion, would be a complete slap in the face to how much she has obviously grown up for him.

 

I also don't think that she has to give him a big, public proposal in order to show the people around him how much she cares about him, I think the fact that she actually does propose would be sufficient enough to prove how committed she is to him. And I don't think Leonard would care what everyone thinks, he would just be happy that she has done it, and would recognise what her doing it meant. I agree with big and special though, just big, special, and in private.

 

Although saying that, I doubt it will happen. I do think they will have it in private, after all it is a pretty huge moment, but I do think the other guys will have some sort of input. I can almost see Penny trying to propose in her apartment and Sheldon knocking on her door and both Leonard and Penny yelling at him to get lost. Honestly, I don't mind the comedic inputs, wherever they come from, because this is a comedy after all. I just hope that between the comedy there is real feeling and sentiment behind the proposal. I'll look to FanFiction for the big dramatic, heartfelt, romantic proposals! haha

Edited June 17, 2013 by I.Am.Molly

[ArmyGirl]

I kind of liked the "if" because it was Leonard's recognition that Penny was really nervous about getting married, and I think he was trying to take all the pressure off her.  Having said that, were this "real life", I'd say it would have to be understood that Leonard doesn't have to wait forever for Penny to decide.  Not that he'd break the promise and ask her, but rather that, at some undetermined future point, he'd have to tell her that he wants to be in a committed, married relationship and he has to move on to find someone who is of the same mind.  I wouldn't envision that as an ultimatum to force her hand, but rather letting her know that, well, he's moving on.  Unless Leonard decides having Penny in his life in any capacity is better than not at all.

 

Sloppy romantic that I am (but don't tell anybody), I'd like to see a proposal, if it happens, in private.  Of course, that would mean forsaking, for a brief moment, the gag reel and going for the sentimental - not sure the writers will ever agree to that (esp. in light of the way they handled the airport goodbye ILY).  I have generally had the impression, at least as far as the traditional man asks woman approach goes, women prefer the proposal in private, not in front of family and friends, etc.  Leonard may not care, as long as it's not on the Jumbotron (although that would be a cool way to handle it, I think - at some sporting event or concert, and they'd both be crying - it would be the complete opposite of private, but would be entertaining and would tie back nicely to his comment on Valentine's Day).

 

Lastly, I suspect the proposal and wedding, if it ever comes to that (and I think it will), will not be written into the script until the writers know they are writing for the last season.  Of course, my guess is as good as anyone else's here.

 

The "IF' bothers me because we all know how lazy Penny can be and very few things are important to her and I just don't see her proposing will be at the top of her list.  I don't want Leonard sitting around forever waiting on Penny to finally get to the point that she wants to marry him, as we all know he wants children and I'm sure he wants to be still young enough to enjoy a little time with them.  He deserves to have those 'smart and beautiful' babies.

 

I'm sure the writers will try to stretch the proposal and wedding out to the very end, though I have to wonder how many Lenny fans will hang around forever to get some real payoff.  What's if the show goes pass the ten year mark?  Will we still be waiting on a proposal? How about marriage?  At some point some people will give up and walk away from TBBT --- I know I have done this with a few shows that keep me hanging in limbo.

 

As for the proposal, being that this is Penny I have no clue what she will do or come up with.  I do want it to be special and well thought out as I only see her doing the proposal thing once in her lifetime ---- if at all.

Edited June 17, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[ArmyGirl]

I don't think Penny get's off easy at all in the relationship, in fact I think it is her who has had to do more, especially in 2.0 L/P. She is the one who has had to grow up and mature during the relationship, and I don't think that was easy at all. Look at the Beta Test, she could have taken the 'easy' route, and just restarted their relationship back to where it had been before, but she was the one who wanted to take things slow so they didn't rush in and mess anything up. Then, she had to deal with Leonard's spontaneous proposal, which couldn't have been easy to deal with. She decided at that point to try and move past it and continue their relationship, instead of breaking up with him then and there, which would have been easier in the long run. At the beginning of season 6, she decided, with a lot of help from her girls, that she had to step up her game and take more interest in what he loves and what he does, which she normally has pretty much no interest in. Although I agree that Leonard has done a lot and been incredibly patient with Penny, to say that she has had it easy, in my opinion, would be a complete slap in the face to how much she has obviously grown up for him.

 

I also don't think that she has to give him a big, public proposal in order to show the people around him how much she cares about him, I think the fact that she actually does propose would be sufficient enough to prove how committed she is to him. And I don't think Leonard would care what everyone thinks, he would just be happy that she has done it, and would recognise what her doing it meant. I agree with big and special though, just big, special, and in private.

 

Although saying that, I doubt it will happen. I do think they will have it in private, after all it is a pretty huge moment, but I do think the other guys will have some sort of input. I can almost see Penny trying to propose in her apartment and Sheldon knocking on her door and both Leonard and Penny yelling at him to get lost. Honestly, I don't mind the comedic inputs, wherever they come from, because this is a comedy after all. I just hope that between the comedy there is real feeling and sentiment behind the proposal. I'll look to FanFiction for the big dramatic, heartfelt, romantic proposals! haha

 

I'm not taking anything from Penny by saying she mostly had it easy in her relationship with Leonard.  Penny has been calling the shots for the longest and rarely gave anything meaningful to Lenny, sure she came around in the latter part of Season Six. 

 

I love how some go on and on about how much Penny have to put with when it comes to Leonard.  So the man proposal and he apologize for it --- I mean some acted like he tried to kill Penny or something.  Yes, Leonard can put the cart before the horse sometimes but we all know he loves Penny and wants a life with her.  Penny get to be over the top because she is young and needs times to grow up but never once does anyone say that Leonard is feeling his way through a mine field where Penny is concern.  Leonard didn't have a mother there to help him understand love, romance, or how a relationship works.  The guy is mostly doing the best he knows how and for the longest he had no help from Penny.  So while some always cut Penny some slack on how she handle things, I think the same should be afforded where Leonard is concern.

 

As for the proposal, you have your way of wanting it done and I have mines.  It will all be left up to the writers and I just hope they do right by the Leonard Fans, Penny Fans, and Lenny Fans.

 

eta:  As for as the beta test --- we all remember her reaction to it.

Edited June 17, 2013 by ArmyGirl