Ship Zone Leonard And Penny Shippers Thread (Possible Spoilers)

[ajond]

I agree. I think you guys are being a little hard on Sheldon. Sure he can get a lot of the focus put onto him, but that is down to the fact he is such an eccentric character and so much of what happens effects him in the biggest and funniest ways. This is a comedy after all and the writers are always going to go for what is funny. Yeah he can be selfish and egotistical, condescending and a real pain in the ass, but he really does care for his friends. It's why he asked Penny not to hurt Leonard, and why he helped Penny when she fell in the bathtub. It's why he went through so much trouble to reinstate the full roommate agreement. Of course you could say that this was just because he wanted Leonard to drive him around everywhere again, but I think it was more to do with the fact he wanted him to be his friend again.

 

I don't think Leonard living with Sheldon has stunted his growth or trapped him. Leonard could move out whenever he wants. He has no ties to Sheldon besides that piece of paper so if he really wanted to, he could leave, but he stays of his own free will because he understands how Sheldon is and accepts him that way. Johnny Galecki said it best when he said that the two of them sort of need each other. They are freaking Bert and Ernie guys! Come on!

Can't agree with this. Sheldon is extremely selfish. Apart from "don't hurt my friend" and helping P with money and her fall, the rest of the time it is all abut himself. His lift to work/comic book store and everywhere else is a prime example of this.The roommate agreement is so heavily weighted in his favour it cannot be used to show his caring nature. He also is prepared to abandon social norms when it suits him Barging into P's apartment when he turned the lights out is a case in point. Also in S6 he has become seriously irritating, Where are the writers going with this?

 

BTW love your fanfics

Edited June 27, 2013 by ajond

[eirwinrommel]

Sheldon, doesn't just want to control everything. He wants what he wants, and thinks that's law of nature. He uses the various 'agreements' as a weapon to get his way, and when that doesn't work he breaks said 'agreements' to get his way.

 

Season 5 episode 19

 

Amy: No, hang on. I followed all the protocols set forth by you in the relationship agreement. I made a written record request 72 hours in advance. I checked the tyre pressure on the car. I even contacted the Centres For Disease Control to find out what shots they recommend for travel to Orange County. FYI, it’s none.

Sheldon: Amy, the relationship agreement was not designed for either one of us to get our way.

Amy: You use it to get your way.

Sheldon: I use it to get the right way. The fact that the right way is also my way is a happy coincidence.

 

Later

 

Amy: You sure you’re okay with this?

Sheldon: Yes. I decided to find a way that I could have this experience and enjoy it.

Amy: Thank you. That means a lot to me.

Sheldon: Oh, don’t thank me. Thank wireless technology. I realized, I can go to your aunt’s awful party and still spend the whole day gaming with my friends.

Amy: Sheldon, my relatives are going to want to talk to you, and you’re going to be sitting there playing a game? Isn’t that a little rude?

Sheldon: Oh, I got that covered. Headset. I won’t hear a word the old geezers are saying.

Amy: You know, if playing that game is more important to you than honouring your commitment to me, and you don’t mind me showing up at a party all by myself after I’ve already told everybody I’ll be bringing somebody, then, fine. Go home and play your game.

Sheldon: Thanks. Ooh, listen, I wouldn’t mind a piece of birthday cake, provided the old gal’s candle blow is clean and dry.

 

If Sheldon was really bound by the agreement, or cared about Amy's feelings, he would have gone to the party. It was only a few of hours out of the weekend (they didn't even start playing until after they would have left).

[Nogravitasatall]

Not that I set out to thump on Sheldon. Lol.

He's just such soft target he always gets to walk. The few instances where he has been supportive have not been shining examples of altruism.

i don't hate him but I don't have to like him all the time to enjoy the show. And that should be ok.

[Nogravitasatall]

Can't agree with this. Sheldon is extremely selfish. Apart from "don't hurt my friend" and helping P with money and her fall, the rest of the time it is all abut himself. His lift to work/comic book store and everywhere else is a prime example of this.The roommate agreement is so heavily weighted in his favour it cannot be used to show his caring nature. He also is prepared to abandon social norms when it suits him Barging into P's apartment when he turned the lights out is a case in point. Also in S6 he has become seriously irritating, Where are the writers going with this?

BTW love your fanfics

Also by the way, Sheldon does not care about money so any financial transaction is probably inconsequential to him. If he doesn't care, is he being generous? We perceive it as generosity but what's his intent? He did not sacrifice anything to give her the cash. And if he hadn't helped Penny in the shower, he'd have been a sociopath. Where is the motivation?

I'm struggling to see him as trying to do good rather than doing what he wants or must.

Maybe I can persuaded otherwise. I just never see him conflicted, except maybe over Amy. Even that is self interest to an extent.

not sure if this belongs on this thread.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[I.Am.Molly]

Also by the way, Sheldon does not care about money so any financial transaction is probably inconsequential to him. If he doesn't care, is he being generous? We perceive it as generosity but what's his intent? He did not sacrifice anything to give her the cash. And if he hadn't helped Penny in the shower, he'd have been a sociopath. Where is the motivation?

I'm struggling to see him as trying to do good rather than doing what he wants or must.

Maybe I can persuaded otherwise. I just never see him conflicted, except maybe over Amy. Even that is self interest to an extent.

not sure if this belongs on this thread.

 

I think you are wrong in saying that Sheldon doesn't care about money. He has that money jar guarded by snakes... he must care about it a little.... haha No seriously though, he was actually saving the money he gave to Penny, but what he was saving for was something that he wasn't going to get in the near future, and so he saw no reason not to lend her the money. He didn't worry about her paying it back, because he didn't need it back yet. The intent behind it is just logic. He had the money and didn't need it, she needed the money and didn't have it, so he gave her it, as a loan yes, but with no real rush to get the money back. Your point about the shower is true, it would have been pretty sick if he hadn't helped her, but then again, he could have just dropped her at the hospital and left. Yet he stayed and tried to comfort her. He took her home and made sure she got to bed and sang to her. That's pretty caring in my book. If he really couldn't care less about her, like I said, he would have just dropped her off and went home. Part of him probably wanted to do that, but he didn't because he was concerned about her well-being, which is pretty selfless.

 

I think a lot of what he does is due to logic, and wanting to be in control, but there are moments where you can really see that he does care about others' feelings. This is especially shown in his relationship with Amy. He has done so much with her that he hates doing and he does it because he wants to make her happy. Hand holding during the movies, compromising on his Halloween costume. He even says it himself in The Tenure Turbulence when he and Amy are talking about going to the memorial service.

 

Amy: Oh. Well, in that case, perhaps I should come along.

 

Sheldon: Well, now that I think about it, that would be most helpful.

 

Amy: Of course it would. I’m well-versed in academic politics, and as a respected scientist, I can only raise your stock as a candidate.

 

Sheldon: Actually, I meant you could drive me. But if it makes you happy, that other stuff too.

 

He even let Amy try and mess with his brain to stop him from being in such need of closure.

 

He is really an overgrown child that doesn't really know how to tackle the outside world and uses his formulas, and relationship agreements and logic to deal with certain situations because he has a need to have structure and order to everything, when that really is impossible. Its why he takes that 20 minute break each day to play hack-e-sack, and give his head some sort of rest between trying to manoeuvre around social situations that he doesn't understand but tries too, for the sake of the people around him.

 

Like I said before, he is selfish and egotistical most of the time, but there are moments when you can see that he is trying his best to be like the rest of them, even though a big part of him probably doesn't want too. Like when he tried to figure out what line he had crossed after he blurted to Penny that Leonard had said their first night together wasn't great. He struggled with that for a good while and was happy with himself when he got it right and then later on, when he pretty much encouraged Penny to go back to being friends with Leonard and he was mad at him for it, he tried to figure out what he had done wrong there, before deciding that he didn't care. His first instinct was to try and work out what he had done wrong, and then when it got too confusing for him he gave up. In that sense he is conflicted because he has moments where he wants to know and understand why everyone around them acts the way they do, but then another part of him just says, what's the point?

 

I think I am rambling a bit here so I will end this here! And I am not saying everyone has to like Sheldon, I know everyone has different opinions on different people in the show, but I really do think sometimes it's easy to say he is this and that and get carried away, turning him into some sort of heartless robot. He does care, he just doesn't show it very often, or talk about it, because he isn't into all that 'hippy dippy stuff'

Edited June 28, 2013 by I.Am.Molly

[Guest DroneInTheSun]

Definitely not the right topic, but since someone mentioned The Week-End Vortex, let's remember that he actually apologises to Amy and that she's more than excited to go to the Science Centre with him. And in The Shiny Trinket Manoeuvre, he's so distraught by their argument about the Neuron cover that he actually ends up drinking virtual alcohol - he doesn't understand why Amy's upset, but it upsets him that she is upset. Sheldon may not show it, but deep down, he does care. That's the paradox of his character, really: he doesn't want to care, because he's not a hippie, but he does.

It's the same with Leonard. He goes tell Penny not to break up with Leonard because he likes homeostasis, but at the last moment, he tells her not to hurt his friend. He can pretend to only care about himself all he wants, he doesn't fool anyone. That's why Leonard stays, even through all the crap. Leonard's got the biggest heart of anyone on this show and he's able to see past everyone's barriers and he knows that Sheldon cares. When they first meet, Sheldon says he loves the spot on the couch because it allows him to avoid conversations, but now, whenever he mentions why he loves his spot, he says that it's ideally placed because it allows him to take part in conversations. From the very first day of their friendship, Leonard was able to get through Sheldon's armour to get the humanity in him out of his body.

That's why I say that more than Leonard/Penny, Leonard and Sheldon's relationship is at the chore of the show. It's the basis upon which all other relationships are built.

[Disgusted]

 

 

An interesting observation I have seen in several places is that control freaks that actually have the power to control others often have deviant sexual desires. Basically they are turned on by the opposite of control (bondage, etc.). Maybe some of Sheldon's issues with Amy are that he really wants her to control him, and that desire frightens him. Passive guys like Leonard go the other way. It seems that Penny really likes it when Leonard exerts control.

 

 

Hmmm, you may be onto something here......

 

 

Edited June 28, 2013 by Disgusted

[Nogravitasatall]

Definitely not the right topic, but since someone mentioned The Week-End Vortex, let's remember that he actually apologises to Amy and that she's more than excited to go to the Science Centre with him. And in The Shiny Trinket Manoeuvre, he's so distraught by their argument about the Neuron cover that he actually ends up drinking virtual alcohol - he doesn't understand why Amy's upset, but it upsets him that she is upset. Sheldon may not show it, but deep down, he does care. That's the paradox of his character, really: he doesn't want to care, because he's not a hippie, but he does.

It's the same with Leonard. He goes tell Penny not to break up with Leonard because he likes homeostasis, but at the last moment, he tells her not to hurt his friend. He can pretend to only care about himself all he wants, he doesn't fool anyone. That's why Leonard stays, even through all the crap. Leonard's got the biggest heart of anyone on this show and he's able to see past everyone's barriers and he knows that Sheldon cares. When they first meet, Sheldon says he loves the spot on the couch because it allows him to avoid conversations, but now, whenever he mentions why he loves his spot, he says that it's ideally placed because it allows him to take part in conversations. From the very first day of their friendship, Leonard was able to get through Sheldon's armour to get the humanity in him out of his body.

That's why I say that more than Leonard/Penny, Leonard and Sheldon's relationship is at the chore of the show. It's the basis upon which all other relationships are built.

Hi Lost,

I copied this to the Sheldon Cooper character thread on the front page and responded there. Hope that's ok.

[Nogravitasatall]

I think you are wrong in saying that Sheldon doesn't care about money. He has that money jar guarded by snakes... he must care about it a little.... haha No seriously though, he was actually saving the money he gave to Penny, but what he was saving for was something that he wasn't going to get in the near future, and so he saw no reason not to lend her the money. He didn't worry about her paying it back, because he didn't need it back yet. The intent behind it is just logic. He had the money and didn't need it, she needed the money and didn't have it, so he gave her it, as a loan yes, but with no real rush to get the money back. Your point about the shower is true, it would have been pretty sick if he hadn't helped her, but then again, he could have just dropped her at the hospital and left. Yet he stayed and tried to comfort her. He took her home and made sure she got to bed and sang to her. That's pretty cacring in my book. If he really couldn't care less about her, like I said, he would have just dropped hder off and went home. Part of him probably wanted to do that, but he didn't because he was concerned about her well-being, which is pretty selfless.

I think a lot of what he does is due to logic, and wanting to be in control, but there are moments where you can really see that he does care about others' feelings. This is especially shown in his relationship with Amy. He has done so much with her that he hates doing and he does it because he wants to make her happy. Hand holding during the movies, compromising on his Halloween costume. He even says it himself in The Tenure Turbulence when he and Amy are talking about going to the memorial service.

Amy: Oh. Well, in that case, perhaps I should come along.

Sheldon: Well, now that I think about it, that would be most helpful.

Amy: Of course it would. I’m well-versed in academic politics, and as a respected scientist, I can only raise your stock as a candidate.

Sheldon: Actually, I meant you could drive me. But if it makes you happy, that other stuff too.

He even let Amy try and mess with his brain to stop him from being in such need of closure.

He is really an overgrown child that doesn't really know how to tackle the outside world and uses his formulas, and relationship agreements and logic to deal with certain situations because he has a need to have structure and order to everything, when that really is impossible. Its why he takes that 20 minute break each day to play hack-e-sack, and give his head some sort of rest between trying to manoeuvre around social situations that he doesn't understand but tries too, for the sake of the people around him.

Like I said before, he is selfish and egotistical most of the time, but there are moments when you can see that he is trying his best to be like the rest of them, even though a big part of him probably doesn't want too. Like when he tried to figure out what line he had crossed after he blurted to Penny that Leonard had said their first night together wasn't great. He struggled with that for a good while and was happy with himself when he got it right and then later on, when he pretty much encouraged Penny to go back to being friends with Leonard and he was mad at him for it, he tried to figure out what he had done wrong there, before deciding that he didn't care. His first instinct was to try and work out what he had done wrong, and then when it got too confusing for him he gave up. In that sense he is conflicted because he has moments where he wants to know and understand why everyone around them acts the way they do, but then another part of him just says, what's the point?

I think I am rambling a bit here so I will end this here! And I am not saying everyone has to like Sheldon, I know everyone has different opinions on different people in the show, but I really do think sometimes it's easy to say he is this and that and get carried away, turning him into some sort of heartless robot. He does care, he just doesn't show it very often, or talk about it, because he isn't into all that 'hippy dippy stuff'

I'd be wary about giving him a pass as an overgrown child. He has the same social obligations as any other adult person and if he lets down his end of the social contact that's on him, unless he is diminished in capacity in someway.

But he can be cute as a button. Penny said something to this phenomenon, but in a different context, about Priya.

Penny: Well, doesn’t matter if she gets it, as long as she’s pretty.

As you say he has moments (but Penny put him on the spot with soft kitty). His preferences run the other way. It's only when he is not himself that he gives into the hippy dippy stuff. That's ok - that's his hero's journey. eta this is what Amy is part of.

But back to the money. I agree he was acting rationally. He did not mean it as a gift or act of generosity . It was just a transaction. We see it as being generous but because it cost him nothing it may have less value than one might think. Compare that to Leonard's debt recovery from Kurt. Leonard paid a price for that. (Waves flag for Team Leonard)

Edited June 28, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[SRAM]

Leonard has to pay a price for everything he does. He is constantly having to work to be Penny's boyfriend, when someone like David Underhills, had her after one date. Leonard has to act almost as Sheldon's slave to live with him and he is always having to do things for Raj and Howard. He even had to be Amy's date to a wedding. He didn't really have an easy time with Priya and actually had to change some to keep her, but still she left. Alex seemed to be the only girl impressed with him for who he was ( Alice wasn't around enough to know what she wanted). His life is perfectly described in the episode he comes back from the North Pole, 'He just cannot catch a break'.

[Chrismo]

Leonard has to pay a price for everything he does. He is constantly having to work to be Penny's boyfriend, when someone like David Underhills, had her after one date. Leonard has to act almost as Sheldon's slave to live with him and he is always having to do things for Raj and Howard. He even had to be Amy's date to a wedding. He didn't really have an easy time with Priya and actually had to change some to keep her, but still she left. Alex seemed to be the only girl impressed with him for who he was ( Alice wasn't around enough to know what she wanted). His life is perfectly described in the episode he comes back from the North Pole, 'He just cannot catch a break'.

I see where you are coming from but I don't totally agree with you. On paper the best match to Leonard would be Alex and generally you are correct that it does seem he does pay a price for everything he does. My difference is with regards to Underhill and to Penny. Underhill wasn't like a typical physicist (compared to the rest of the guys. Not as nerdy.) and he seem to fit Penny's  typical guy at that time.(season 2). Not only that I think its a bit of work for Penny to be Leonards girlfriend. She doesn't really fit with the rest of the gang(even the girls) and she does things with the Leonard and the guys she probably never did in her life. I think people most of the show has been centered around Leonard getting Penny and you don't often see things from Penny's point of view.

[eirwinrommel]

Sheldon: Actually, I meant you could drive me. But if it makes you happy, that other stuff too.

 

The whole point with Sheldon is that he gets what he wants. If it makes someone else happy (or not) is immaterial to him. Deep down Sheldon may care about others, but only because they may be distracted from helping him. 

Amy can come along, because she can drive him to the event.

Leonard can't go on the expedition because he won't be available to do things for him.

Penny can't break up with Leonard because Leonard will be sad, and if Leonard becomes sad enough he might move out and then Sheldon will have to acquire and train a new room mate. Also Penny won't be as available to do things for him, and that will make Sheldon's life inconvenient.

Sheldon wants homeostasis because any major change will make things inconvenient for him.

Just look at Season 5 episode 15.

 

Sheldon: Oh, your concern for me is touching. It will serve you well when you take me to the dentist tomorrow.

Amy: I’m sorry, Sheldon, I’m busy. I’m right in the middle of my addiction study. I’ve got a lab full of alcoholic monkeys, and tomorrow’s the day we switch them to O’Doul’s.

Sheldon: You’re my girlfriend and you’re not going to cater to my every need? Oh, where’d the magic go?

 

Sheldon: Well, if Amy’s too busy, that gives the rest of you an opportunity to make my life easier, thus assuring yourselves a footnote in my memoirs, tentatively entitled You’re Welcome, Mankind. All right, then, just shout when you hear the task you want to undertake.

 

From Sheldon's POV the others should be happy/eager to serve him.

[Nogravitasatall]

I see where you are coming from but I don't totally agree with you. On paper the best match to Leonard would be Alex and generally you are correct that it does seem he does pay a price for everything he does. My difference is with regards to Underhill and to Penny. Underhill wasn't like a typical physicist (compared to the rest of the guys. Not as nerdy.) and he seem to fit Penny's  typical guy at that time.(season 2). Not only that I think its a bit of work for Penny to be Leonards girlfriend. She doesn't really fit with the rest of the gang(even the girls) and she does things with the Leonard and the guys she probably never did in her life. I think people most of the show has been centered around Leonard getting Penny and you don't often see things from Penny's point of view.

Yup 100%. She's really pushing it uphill. All her aspirations and circumstances require her to struggle. She has a harder life than any of the others and maybe shows more integrity. No wonder she's been wary of Leonard in the past. She's jumped into a different social and intellectual class. I can't imagine the difference between Princeton and Omaha. In life Leonard has the ball and just has to not fumble. Penny has punted on her future.

This is what to me makes the flipped proposal proposition so good. It levels the playing field for her.

[eirwinrommel]

I see where you are coming from but I don't totally agree with you. On paper the best match to Leonard would be Alex and generally you are correct that it does seem he does pay a price for everything he does. My difference is with regards to Underhill and to Penny. Underhill wasn't like a typical physicist (compared to the rest of the guys. Not as nerdy.) and he seem to fit Penny's  typical guy at that time.(season 2). Not only that I think its a bit of work for Penny to be Leonards girlfriend. She doesn't really fit with the rest of the gang(even the girls) and she does things with the Leonard and the guys she probably never did in her life. I think people most of the show has been centered around Leonard getting Penny and you don't often see things from Penny's point of view.

I can see what you mean. The whole experience with Leonard and the others is something she would never have tried under normal circumstances. In the long run it's been to Penny's benefit.

[ajond]

Yup 100%. She's really pushing it uphill. All her aspirations and circumstances require her to struggle. She has a harder life than any of the others and maybe shows more integrity. No wonder she's been wary of Leonard in the past. She's jumped into a different social and intellectual class. I can't imagine the difference between Princeton and Omaha. In life Leonard has the ball and just has to not fumble. Penny has punted on her future.

This is what to me makes the flipped proposal proposition so good. It levels the playing field for her.

 

Love this viewpoint. P is definitely the one struggling to maintain her identity in the midst of six others in her group. All geniuses or at least super smart. I love "pushing it uphill" it defines her life in a nutshell.

[Nogravitasatall]

Leonard has to pay a price for everything he does. He is constantly having to work to be Penny's boyfriend, when someone like David Underhills, had her after one date. Leonard has to act almost as Sheldon's slave to live with him and he is always having to do things for Raj and Howard. He even had to be Amy's date to a wedding. He didn't really have an easy time with Priya and actually had to change some to keep her, but still she left. Alex seemed to be the only girl impressed with him for who he was ( Alice wasn't around enough to know what she wanted). His life is perfectly described in the episode he comes back from the North Pole, 'He just cannot catch a break'.

Even Leonard almost slept with Underhill. Lol. .

[SRAM]

I'm not saying Penny didn't put out effort. After all her character is the beautiful girl with the big heart that is able to see people for who they really are and that is why she falls in love with Leonard, she sees the man underneath the nerd. I agree so far her character has been the one to change the most in the group too. But honestly who had to work more in their relationship, even after Penny got upset over Priya, she didn't have to win Leonard back, Leonard still had to convince her he was her soulmate. The last half of season 6 is the first time Penny has become invested in the relationship and is now vulnerable.

[hamerman55]

I'm not saying Penny didn't put out effort. After all her character is the beautiful girl with the big heart that is able to see people for who they really are and that is why she falls in love with Leonard, she sees the man underneath the nerd. I agree so far her character has been the one to change the most in the group too. But honestly who had to work more in their relationship, even after Penny got upset over Priya, she didn't have to win Leonard back, Leonard still had to convince her he was her soulmate. The last half of season 6 is the first time Penny has become invested in the relationship and is now vulnerable.

I strongly agree with the last point. Until now, she was ready to walk whenever something better came along, and in fact had said as much to Leonard off-camera. He mentions this when Howard asks about the three date rule. Leonard has a little security in a relationship now, as all of his others were tenuous or clearly doomed.

[vasu]

What you and others have said about Sheldon is absolutely true. Its been going on the length on the show. At that point in the show though people who were watching and more importantly people on the L/P forum really looked at Priya as the enemy. I think many people, including myself, really didn't look at it as a victory for Sheldon but a victory for Leonard and Penny. To me there was no way Priya and Leonard were going to last and if this was going to get rid of her the sooner the better.

 

 i guess  from your point of view  I can see how it could have looked....

 

 

Not really, because it's literally the first proof that she isn't committed to her relationship to Leonard. Then there's the fact that she's going back to India and doesn't tell him (only three episodes later), and of course the coup de grâce when she cheats on him. You can't brush off the Roommate Agreement incident as unimportant because it's symptomatic of the fact that Priya ultimately doesn't give a crap about Leonard.

 

Re: Sheldon - I agree that in The Agreement Dissection, he wasn't thinking about Leonard, and that it seems that their friendship is most often than not one-sided, but Sheldon's also proved he actually cares about Leonard. I don't think you can really brush off their friendship like that either. Leonard's been a positive influence on Sheldon from Day One, and Sheldon knows it - that's why he tells Leonard he loves him at least twice.

 

Again what Priya did later does not make Sheldon's actions during Agreement episode any better...

 

All Sheldon knew was that Priya did not want to tell her parents that she and Leonard were dating...that's it...and more over Sheldon's socially inept ...there is no way he could have know how they both felt about each other or how much she is committed to their relationship.......  and lets not forget Leonard too did not tell her mother that he was dating Penny ... so even based on experience Sheldon should never understand Priya's commitment towards Leonard

 

So all Sheldon did was to put his friend's relationship in jeopardy to get what he wants...which as I have said before..makes it a utterly despicable act , and Sheldon a back-stabbing rat...  and of course Leonard because of his lack of spine does nothing....

 

And the worst thing was that when Sheldon delivers the final blow by telling Priya that he studied at starfleet academy , the audience cheer as he goes to his room triumphant......so basically I am being asked to cheer for this selfish guy...

 

That scene was just poor writing or rather biased writing.... they just wanted to have Sheldon win over Priya without considering how is should have effected Leonard and their friendship , because this should have been a deal breaker.

[vasu]

I agree. I think you guys are being a little hard on Sheldon. Sure he can get a lot of the focus put onto him, but that is down to the fact he is such an eccentric character and so much of what happens effects him in the biggest and funniest ways. This is a comedy after all and the writers are always going to go for what is funny. Yeah he can be selfish and egotistical, condescending and a real pain in the ass, but he really does care for his friends. It's why he asked Penny not to hurt Leonard, and why he helped Penny when she fell in the bathtub. It's why he went through so much trouble to reinstate the full roommate agreement. Of course you could say that this was just because he wanted Leonard to drive him around everywhere again, but I think it was more to do with the fact he wanted him to be his friend again.

 

I don't think Leonard living with Sheldon has stunted his growth or trapped him. Leonard could move out whenever he wants. He has no ties to Sheldon besides that piece of paper so if he really wanted to, he could leave, but he stays of his own free will because he understands how Sheldon is and accepts him that way. Johnny Galecki said it best when he said that the two of them sort of need each other. They are freaking Bert and Ernie guys! Come on!

 

If you are talking about the friend contraction episode....

 

let me put what I saw ...

 

Sheldon clearly would not have cared about Leonard if any one else would have taken the chauffeur duty .. if any other weak willed friend would have done all those things for him , it was quite clear that Sheldon would not have bothered about Leonard.....

When finally no one bothers about him , then he goes to lenghts to get Leonard back......  this all would have been fine , if Sheldon would have shown a tiny bit of appreciation for Leonard , but it was clearly a ruse as  all he was going to give Leonard on "Leonard's day" was a crummy card...... and of course Leonard reflexively is never given a back bone...because he clearly should'nt have settled for a "Leonard's day" after hearing what he was going to get........ wimp wimp..

 

for me in this episode Leonard and Sheldon did not look two friends , but looked like a bully and a wimp....

 

And regarding Penny : she goes "Awwwwww" when Sheldon comes to her apartment later when the power is off....it reflects poorly on her character because she clearly would'nt be saying "Awww" if she had to chauffeur him around...so she won't to do it but Leonard has to.....

 

And I'm not being hard on Sheldon alone... I am saying that  who-ever involved in the story are unlikable.....

 

And the writers and actors may say many things...but in the end all it matter is what we see on screen....

I'm not denying that there are no moments in the show where I can see their friendship...but many a important moments which should have bigger one were looked over or not dealt properly in the show......like in the season 6 finale....just tell me a scene where it genuinely looked like Sheldon was trying to make Leonard stay because he cared about Leonard or missed living without him...

Edited June 29, 2013 by vasu

[ajond]

If you are talking about the friend contraction episode....

 

let me put what I saw ...

 

Sheldon clearly would not have cared about Leonard if any one else would have taken the chauffeur duty .. if any other weak willed friend would have done all those things for him , it was quite clear that Sheldon would not have bothered about Leonard.....

When finally no one bothers about him , then he goes to lenghts to get Leonard back......  this all would have been fine , if Sheldon would have shown a tiny bit of appreciation for Leonard , but it was clearly a ruse as  all he was going to give Leonard on "Leonard's day" was a crummy card...... and of course Leonard reflexively is never given a back bone...because he clearly should'nt have settled for a "Leonard's day" after hearing what he was going to get........ wimp wimp..

 

for me in this episode Leonard and Sheldon did not look two friends , but looked like a bully and a wimp....

 

And regarding Penny : she goes "Awwwwww" when Sheldon comes to her apartment later when the power is off....it reflects poorly on her character because she clearly would'nt be saying "Awww" if she had to chauffeur him around...so she won't to do it but Leonard has to.....

 

And I'm not being hard on Sheldon alone... I am saying that  who-ever involved in the story are unlikable.....

 

And the writers and actors may say many things...but in the end all it matter is what we see on screen....

I'm not denying that there are no moments in the show where I can see their friendship...but many a important moments which should have bigger one were looked over or not dealt properly in the show......like in the season 6 finale....just tell me a scene where it genuinely looked like Sheldon was trying to make Leonard stay because he cared about Leonard or missed living without him...

 

Absolutely. Sheldon has morphed into a self serving manipulative guy. Very little to like about him at the moment. Definitely not the S1-3 Sheldon who, though socially awkward, was likeable at least. To me the most intriguing aspect to  S7 and beyond is how they get the innocence back into S.( Maybe not so innocent, in the pilot he was shown as experienced at masturbating for money)

!!!!!

 

On a slightly related subject, if TBBT is going beyond S7 shouldn't they have announced it by now?

[Tensor]

On a slightly related subject, if TBBT is going beyond S7 shouldn't they have announced it by now?

Not necessarily. There's nothing that says when a renewal has to be announced. That said, renewals for the next year have to be announced before upfronts, usually beginning around the middle to end of May, prior to the fall season.

[Chrismo]

 

 

 

 

 

 

And regarding Penny : she goes "Awwwwww" when Sheldon comes to her apartment later when the power is off....it reflects poorly on her character because she clearly would'nt be saying "Awww" if she had to chauffeur him around...so she won't to do it but Leonard has to.....

 

 

And the writers and actors may say many things...but in the end all it matter is what we see on screen....

I'm not denying that there are no moments in the show where I can see their friendship...but many a important moments which should have bigger one were looked over or not dealt properly in the show......like in the season 6 finale....just tell me a scene where it genuinely looked like Sheldon was trying to make Leonard stay because he cared about Leonard or missed living without him...

I'm not getting how this involves Penny and her character. She just said that Sheldon looked sad. You're right she wouldn't chauffeur him around but as you pointed out that's Leonard's choice. Matter of fact I think Penny's the one that puts up with his crap the least out of anyone. And you may be right I can't give you a scene that shows Sheldon would miss Leonard or cared about him staying but I'm not sure if everyone cares that much about that. It is a comedy show not a drama.

[vasu]

I'm not getting how this involves Penny and her character. She just said that Sheldon looked sad. You're right she wouldn't chauffeur him around but as you pointed out that's Leonard's choice. Matter of fact I think Penny's the one that puts up with his crap the least out of anyone. And you may be right I can't give you a scene that shows Sheldon would miss Leonard or cared about him staying but I'm not sure if everyone cares that much about that. It is a comedy show not a drama.

 

I'm just saying she would'nt be saying "Aww" if she had to chauffeur him around...so when she wont do that , why push Leonard to ??

 

And regarding this being a comedy show not a drama....we had sit to through episodes of Penny thinking of breaking-up with Leonard again ...... was it not drama??...and more over to show genuine affection all it needs is one look or few seconds ..that's it...that's all it...it does make it a drama...and the funny thing Sheldon whinning about Leonard leaving was not even that funny...

[I.Am.Molly]

Leonard has to pay a price for everything he does. He is constantly having to work to be Penny's boyfriend, when someone like David Underhills, had her after one date. Leonard has to act almost as Sheldon's slave to live with him and he is always having to do things for Raj and Howard. He even had to be Amy's date to a wedding. He didn't really have an easy time with Priya and actually had to change some to keep her, but still she left. Alex seemed to be the only girl impressed with him for who he was ( Alice wasn't around enough to know what she wanted). His life is perfectly described in the episode he comes back from the North Pole, 'He just cannot catch a break'.

 

I think you are making Leonard out to be more spineless than he actually is. He hasn't had to do any of those things, he has done them because he wants too. No-one, not even Sheldon, has ever forced him to drive him to work or the comic book store or whatever, and that is shown in the episode where he works late and refuses to take him anywhere. If and when he doesn't want to do it, he wont. He does it because he cares about others and wants to help them out, not because it's forced upon him. He didn't have to be Amy's date either, he went because he was her friend and presumably, he didn't want her to go alone.

And I don't know if he really had to work to be Penny's boyfriend more than he really just had to wait it out. I still stand by the point that Penny is the one who has had to work more in their relationship. And to be fair, Alex doesn't really know him, or who he is. She works for his best friend and talks to him sometimes at lunch, what she has is simply a school girl crush. Penny knows him and accepts him for who he is, and I think she is the only girlfriend he's had that has.

 

I'm just saying she would'nt be saying "Aww" if she had to chauffeur him around...so when she wont do that , why push Leonard to ??

 

And regarding this being a comedy show not a drama....we had sit to through episodes of Penny thinking of breaking-up with Leonard again ...... was it not drama??...and more over to show genuine affection all it needs is one look or few seconds ..that's it...that's all it...it does make it a drama...and the funny thing Sheldon whinning about Leonard leaving was not even that funny...

 

In your opinion it wasn't funny. I thought it was, and i'm sure I'm not the only one. And to be fair, you only had to 'sit through' one episode of Penny breaking up with Leonard, the first time they simply stopped dating, no real drama involved there. Chrismo is right, this show is a comedy, so obviously the writers are going to go with what is funny before they go with what is dramatic. That's why Leonard leaving was made more comical, as well as when Howard left and when he returned. I have no doubt that when Leonard returns, it will be funny. The writers have always picked funny over heartfelt, and I hope they always do. Except maybe a few isolated scenes, like the Shamy in Sheldon's bedroom, and Penny's epiphany, that really do require those dramatic moments.