Ship Zone Leonard And Penny Shippers Thread (Possible Spoilers)

[Nogravitasatall]

Well it's a good thing it's a television show because there is no way in hades that I would want my son(s) to stay in or restart a relationship like Leonard is in before Season Six.  ETA:  Of course Leonard isn't a wimp but you have to admit the writers after Season Two just had his character take and take and take all the crap that Penny and Sheldon and Priya dished out to him.  The writers messed up and decided to stick in that mode for some reason.... tho most of us probably have an ideal why.

 

I do love Lenny 2.0 that took place during the latter part of the Season Six after Penny finally got her crap together. I could actually see the writer trying to undo most of the mess they had created with the relationship.

I have to rationalise my preferences. lol. He got kicked and kicked and kicked but never gave up. Even his tolerance of Sheldon maybe can be seen as an expression of forbearance and love.  I like that. Maybe not a bad example for the kids. My three have watched - now they are over it. But then, I taught the youngest two the Firefly theme when they were around 5 & 6 so I'm a bad parent. (they heard it a lot).

 

But they did go an unusual way to extend the run of the show and get fresh ideas.  They avoided the musical beds of the other shows about single people, with guest starring lovers. I liked that too.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[Chrismo]

I understand what you are saying.  Just look at the way Penny treated Sheldon in Season Three Premiere 'The Electric Can Opener Fluctuation' and compare it to the way she treated Leonard in Season Three Finale 'The Lunar Excitation'.  There are many examples where Penny doesn't show any kind of sympathy for Leonard and I always wonder why she feels so deeply for a hurt Sheldon but rarely a hurt Leonard. 

 

I don't know if the writers intended for most of the scenes to play out that way but sometimes one could be left with the impression that Penny cared more about Sheldon than she ever did about Leonard.  Small comforting actions on Penny part would have went a long way in not leaving the scenes so open to interpretation by the viewers, imo.

 

btw another example is S3E11 'The Maternal Congruence' you would think Leonard deserved a little sympathy about all the bad news his mother dumped on him, instead we get Penny getting drunk with his mother.  Penny and Sheldon keeping the secret of his mother kissing Sheldon.  For two people to proclaim they care so greatly about Leonard it didn't play out that way for me.

 

Edit to add:  I get that it's a situation comedy but I feel that Leonard is the one that always get the short end of the stick. 

I think your mixing apples and oranges with regards to the Can Opener and Lunar episodes. From Penny's POV (right or wrong) it looks like they ganged up against him in Can Opener. In Lunar Penny's reaction to Leonard drunk should have been Leonards reaction to Penny drunk.

In the maternal episode Leonard's mother was dumping on everyone but Sheldon. In regards to the kiss is there any benefit from Leonard knowing about that?

[Chrismo]

Do you really feel or think that everyone gets that Penny treats Sheldon like a little brother? (Sure I know this but there are many that don't and that is why the Shenny stink is all over those scenes.)  I mean come on sometimes Penny concerns goes beyond the pale for Sheldon, imo.  Yet, She is always too hurt about this or that when it comes to showing just a little compassion for Leonard over things she had done to him. There were no rare crumbs of that little something to point at and say yes, there it is or yep, I see it.   

 

As for Dr. Plimpton, Penny didn't give Leonard any choice over ending their relationship.  Never mind this the same Penny that talked about how she would have 36 hours of mindless sex after she was dumped on by one of her exes.  So I  didn't feel that Penny had a right to say anything or to judge Leonard in this situation and I wish to cow that he hadn't tried to explain it to her.  It was none of her business. And, no I don't buy that Penny was hurting that much from breaking up with Leonard. I do feel she was upset that Leonard wasn't crying and in bed moaning over not being with her.

 

Why would Penny be annoy with Leonard for not telling his mother about her? After all didn't Leonard and Penny have a conversation about his mother and how their relationship work?  Penny knows the ins and outs of Beverly from S2E15 'The Maternal Capacitance' so I don't get why she wouldn't be a little upset for Leonard instead of being drinking bubbies with Beverly (yes, yes, I know comedy at all cost, even when it doesn't make sense).

 

I think the writers focus on one character to the point they short change the other characters and it reflects back in what gets played on screen. So yes, Leonard being the one that is struggling and we should root for in attaining his goals and dreams though their lack of emphasis on said character tend let a lot be left to the viewers to figure this out, imo.

 

 

btw sorry took me so long to response but I am during laundry.... grrr 

Usually though you wouldn't walk into your ex's apartment shortly after your break up. The Leonard/Dr. Plimpton and Penny/Raj were different situations. While Leonard and Penny shouldn't have had any comment about who they were sleeping with Penny's comment was at least IMO somewhat understandable. Obviously she caught on to what had happened in L/S's apartment and her first reaction was to say something. Leonard tried to have a conversation about it and then Sheldon got involved since he had no clue what was going on. Leonard trying to explain his action later to Penny (without her bringing it up) made no sense. The Penny/Raj situation happened so fast with Penny hurrying out the door really didn't Leonard any chance to say anything. He had more time to think about what happened and with Penny talking about going back to Nebraska didn't want to lose her forever and thus "forgave" her for what she did.

[vasu]

Another example of a "wimpy" Leonard from the latest season .... he gives puppy dog expression when Penny says they have to talk....so I guess we have to assume that he some how knew what was going on..so he tried to get her to pity him.....  how pathetic is that..............someone tell me how this is not wimpy

 

and for Penny in the same episode who after whinning all the time when Leonard was with Priya about how great he was and how she would miss him.....acts like she could clearly do a lot better but is unfortunately stuck with Leonard.......

[Guitars1964]

Well, the unsolvable "problem" for a lot of us will always be the writers' (understandable) need to make it funny - it is a sitcom.  About socially unhip science geeks.  So we'll probably continue to see stuff that frustrates us.  I think Sheldon will have to largely remain Sheldon.  I guess I am most protective, if that's the right word,  of Leonard and Penny, so, probably like a lot of us, I want to see them progress together in their relationship, perhaps allowing them to be the stable center around which the other zany characters orbit.  Maybe that wouldn't allow enough of TBBT comedy that's made the show the hit that it is - I don't know. 

 

Leonard has at times been portrayed as wimpy or way too compliant.  To me that's because he fell head over heels in love with a woman that he felt was way, way out of his league, and he thought the way to her heart was to try to shape himself into whatever form he thought she wanted.  As for Penny, what she has wanted has been the Leonard that is comfortable in his own skin.  And, of course, early on, Penny was convinced that Leonard would lose interest in her because she wasn't highly academic, which negatively impacted how she acted with him, when in actuality that was not an issue for him.

 

I read a book that talks about this too-common relationship problem, called imaging, where both people try to project an image to the other that they think the other wants, even though it's not authentic.  One of the outcomes can be what's happened in the past with L&P - by assuming the other wants something different than their authentic selves, they both screw up the relationship.

 

Plug for Tensor - he's doing a nice job in his current Fan Fiction of showing us a scenario in which Leonard and Penny honestly explore the truth and thereby finally get to some for-real intimacy (don't mean just sex here).  Or at least that's my take from what I've read to date.

[Chrismo]

Another example of a "wimpy" Leonard from the latest season .... he gives puppy dog expression when Penny says they have to talk....so I guess we have to assume that he some how knew what was going on..so he tried to get her to pity him.....  how pathetic is that..............someone tell me how this is not wimpy

 

and for Penny in the same episode who after whinning all the time when Leonard was with Priya about how great he was and how she would miss him.....acts like she could clearly do a lot better but is unfortunately stuck with Leonard.......

The puppy dog expression comment was made by Penny and was what she perceived. Was she just having second thoughts? Not only that but episode 5.23 was the one Leonard proposed during sex. Episode 5.24 they were fighting during H/B's wedding. Season 6 started with Raj interrupting their evening which led to the episode you're talking about. So at that time things weren't exactly going that well between them. In regards to her being able do to better that may or may not be true. The last guy though before Leonard was Zack at New Year's season 4.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Chrismo

[vasu]

The puppy dog expression comment was made by Penny and was what she perceived. Was she just having second thoughts? Not only that but episode 5.23 was the one Leonard proposed during sex. Episode 5.24 they were fighting during H/B's wedding. Season 6 started with Raj interrupting their evening which led to the episode you're talking about. So at that time things weren't exactly going that well between them. In regards to her being able do to better that may or may not be true. The last guy though before Leonard was Zack at New Year's season 4.

 

From what we got in the episode , it was clear that Leonard made those puppy dog eyes for real and it was not Penny's perception....

 

What else ccould be her motivation behind thinking about breaking-up with him again.....she compared her present relationship to her previous relationships and then came to the conclusion that she should break up with him again...implying she thought she could do better...

 

And regading Penny's insecurity about her lack of education.....this was never quite consistent....we have seen many times Penny acting like she is doing a favor to Leonard by dating him or infering that she is the best that Leonard could ever do....... so when she brings up being insecure after that kind of behaviour, it kind of lacks authenticity...you can't have it both ways....

[SRAM]

I have been trying to understand 6.02 for a long time, and the only thing I can come up with is the writers were building L/P up for another drama like the bowling alley break up, using the 'Marry Me' like the 'I love you' and Raj pushing to provide a smiliar pushing by Weaton.  However this time, Penny makes the other decision and stays with Leonard, to see what happens, and is rewarded with the rest of Season 6.

[BangerMain]

From what we got in the episode , it was clear that Leonard made those puppy dog eyes for real and it was not Penny's perception....

What else ccould be her motivation behind thinking about breaking-up with him again.....she compared her present relationship to her previous relationships and then came to the conclusion that she should break up with him again...implying she thought she could do better...

And regading Penny's insecurity about her lack of education.....this was never quite consistent....we have seen many times Penny acting like she is doing a favor to Leonard by dating him or infering that she is the best that Leonard could ever do....... so when she brings up being insecure after that kind of behaviour, it kind of lacks authenticity...you can't have it both ways....

What is consistent in the writer's presentation is that Penny sees a shifting reality. For most of her life her value was based on her superior beauty and she was with people who reinforced that to her. She felt in the beginning that she indeed had the upper hand in her new relationship with Leonard because he bought into this line of thinking too.

After she went out with Leonard the first time she saw a different value system. The outside world placed a higher value on Leonard. The men she went out with were either dunderheads or miscreants who did not think long term, just like her. When she went out with Mike or David Underhill she was reminded that she was considered as just a disposable sex toy for men who had anything of value. This point was driven home with her father's visit when he told Leonard of his fear of an unhappy end for Penny.

Penny is a little slow to except it but she knows that this new value structure will replace her own the older she gets.

Edited June 30, 2013 by BangerMain

[rickfromillinois]

Just a few points, if you want to have a better understanding of the realtionship between Sheldon and Penny, watch the episode where she takes Sheldon to Disneyland.   It is similar to a mother or aunt taking a young child to an amusement park.  After seeing that episode I personally find the whole Shenny concept not only bizrarre but somewhat disgusting.   As for Leonard being a whimp, I think that often what people who keep referring to the earlier episodes are missing is that over the seasons we have seen (IMO) is a personal growth in Leonard.   It seems to me that we have seen a steady growth in Leonard's self confidence and willingness to stand up for himself.   I also think that the same can be said for Penny.  Originally she seemed to be a "party girl" more interested in having a good time and immediate gratification with little regard to the consequences.   Over time I believe we have seen her become more compassionate, more selfless, and more aware that actions do have consequences.  This is not a constant and did not happen overnight, but I beleive we have seen been seeing her mature and grow as a person.   I think that the same can be said of the Leonard and Penny relationship.  I believe that they originally broke up because of Penny's fears and because of Leonard's over dependence.   I think that even while they were no longer a couple we saw Penny's internal struggle to show that whatever Leonard did was no longer her business while at the same time she was unable to totally seperate herself from him, and her vocallizing her regrets over her decision.   We also saw that Leonard, even when with other women, wanted to remain in close contact with Penny.  Finally after they got back together we saw that relationship has continued to grow, especially demonstrated in the Valentine's day episode.  In that we saw Leonard inform Penny that she had behaved badly towards him, and when he told her that that he wouldn't ask her to marry him again we see, with a frightened look on her face, ask him if they are breaking up.   I think that now their realtionship is more balanced with neither of them takng the other of granted.

[Kasey]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but with the childhood that Leonard had I'm sure he grew up in a home where you pretty much learned to accept what is.  I think that is how he approaches Sheldon in a 'if you can't beat them, join them' type of mentality.  I think that is how he viewed Penny for a very long time.

 

Now I see him realizing that you don't have to accept things just because.  That you can stand up for some things and even make it better.  When he felt confident enough to move out on Sheldon was because he had somewhere else to go.  Granted he thought he would be more welcomed than he was. 

 

I think though that sometimes things are added into an episode for comedic effect and not necessarily for character development.  And that makes it hard to follow a certain progression in a relationship.

 

Oh BTW, can someone provide a link to Tensor's fanfic please?

[I.Am.Molly]

I have been trying to understand 6.02 for a long time, and the only thing I can come up with is the writers were building L/P up for another drama like the bowling alley break up, using the 'Marry Me' like the 'I love you' and Raj pushing to provide a smiliar pushing by Weaton.  However this time, Penny makes the other decision and stays with Leonard, to see what happens, and is rewarded with the rest of Season 6.

 

Interesting theory, I have never thought of it in that way but now that you say it you can definitely see the similarities in the two. 

 

I have my own idea of what was going on in her head at that point and i see it like this. Now this is probably going to come out all jumbled because there are a few points i want to make, so please bear with me! haha

 

At that point in time, Penny was still quite immature. When we look at her only real other experience of love, it is with Kurt and considering what we have seen of Kurt I think it is safe to assume that he is quite a dominant character, just like Penny, therefore it isn't too much of a stretch to assume that their relationship was quite volatile. I don't mean that to say that he ever would have hurt her physically or anything, but I can see a lot of shouting matches, door slamming and storming out in their relationship. After those fights, I can imagine there were probably some huge 'make-up' sessions, so their relationship probably went from one extreme to the other. Now, if this is Penny's only other experience of being in love, then what she had with Leonard, could come across as 'boring'. I'm not saying that she is right in thinking that, but you can sort of understand where she would get that idea from.

 

When she first got together with Leonard, she probably didn't feel that way because it was a new relationship, that brought about new experiences and challenges. It would have been exciting and she would have been learning new things that she didn't know before about him, until, in her mind, it got too serious and for whatever reason, she panicked and ran. During that time that they were broken up, she realized what a big mistake she had made and that was shown in the show, but I don't think it really hit home with her, until he got with Priya, at which point it was too late to do anything really about it because to her, he had moved on. 

 

Then Leonard and Priya broke up, and I know some of you think that in that moment Penny should have went running to Leonard, and in some respects I agree, but that just isn't in Penny's character. I can almost see it like, she had thought about it, but when it actually came down to making that jump and putting her feelings out there to get him back, she panicked, again, until he asked her out and despite her few reservations over the idea she accepted his offer. She asked him 'Have you thought this through?' which tells me she was scared of going down the same path and ending up at the same destination; hurting him, again. That is why I think she wanted to take things slow. She didn't want to rush into another full blown relationship with him like she had the first time. She wanted to date him and get to know him again. I know that might not make sense since they have known each other for a while, but while he was with Priya, she was banned from seeing him, so more than likely spent a lot less time with him than she usually would have, and she probably wanted to make that time up.

 

Anyway, when she finally thought they were both ready to take that jump, end the BETA test and become a full blown couple again, he proposed. Probably the worst thing he could have done to someone with commitment issues, but instead of leaving him, like I think she would have done in the past, she stayed in the hope it would blow over and they could get back to how they were before. In this time, between 5:23 and 6:02, I doubt they were having sex, and Leonard was probably being very cautious around her, because he probably knew how close she came to leaving him after his spur of the moment proposal, and he didn't want to lose her again. So during that time, things probably did become a little stale and probably slightly awkward. He wouldn't have wanted to push her to get back into bed with him, they probably stopped going places together and so to her, it became 'boring'.

 

In 6:02, when she was telling the girls it was boring, she also said that she loved him and that she had been in love before, but it was different. I assume that her time with Kurt is what she was talking about, so when you compare the two: a volatile and passionate relationship that went from one extreme to the next, and her safe, yet seemingly stale relationship with Leonard, it just wasn't as fun. That is where the immature Penny showed herself. She mistook the safeness in Leonard for a boring relationship, because she thought that being in love with someone meant that there had to be that crazy passion; even though it didn't. So yeah, she considered breaking up with him, and in my opinion that 'look' he gave her, was greatly exaggerated in her own mind, because I think if Leonard had really thought she was going to leave him, he would of asked her. Think back to when he was dating Priya and she said 'we need to talk', he panicked, and started asking her if she was breaking up with him and how cruel it was because they had just went shopping. I think he would have done the same in that situation with Penny, if he really thought that was what she was going to do.

 

I assume she slept with him after he gave her that look, because she either couldn't think of anything else to say, or because she thought maybe that would bring back that passion and excitement that she had felt with Kurt, and with Leonard during the first stages of their relationship, and maybe it did, that we don't really know. All we know is that in the next episode, Alex is brought into the picture and I think that is when Penny really realizes just how much she didn't want to lose Leonard again. It is easy to forget when you are in a relationship, how horrible it felt when you weren't in it. During the time when Penny was thinking of leaving Leonard, she more than likely forgot just how heartbroken she was when he was with Priya, because she was so focused on what was going wrong between them at that time. Then when she saw Leonard and Alex in the cafeteria, all those thoughts more than likely came back, and she realized she wanted him and she wanted to work to get their relationship back on track. 

 

I think this is when she started to mature a little, especially when it was made clear to her that she was the one who had to change in their relationship; not him. She was the one who had to take an interest in all the things he loved and had to take the time to rediscover what it was she fell in love with him for in the first place. So she did; she went to his lab, to see lectures with him, and even tried to get into comic books and it was during this time that she found her passion for him that she had lost.

 

IMO, it wasn't so much that she found Leonard boring, it was more that she was comparing her last experience of being in love and that so called passion and intensity she probably thought she had with Kurt, which at that time, she just didn't have with Leonard and assuming that meant the relationship with him was boring. And it wasn't until she took the time to rediscover what she fell in love with him for in the first place, that she realized that she was actually passionate about him, and that what she had felt with Kurt, or whoever it was she was talking about when she said 'i have been in love before', wasn't really love in the first place. 

 

That's right, I just got all fluffy at the end, but let's be fair, this thread sort of needed it!

Edited June 30, 2013 by I.Am.Molly

[BangerMain]

I.Am.Molly,

That is as good an explanation for the incongruous 6.02 as anyone can ever give, that includes the writers. I have always thought of the 6.02 episode as the start of the reconstruction of Penny that was promised by Prady and Malaro in the summer of 2012 and I doubt they gave the project as much thought as you just did since they did not try to reconcile the broken Penny of season 4 and the first part of season 5 with the suddenly seemingly puzzled Penny of early season 6.

What you wrote would fill in the logic gaps perfectly. Tensor's "Chew Toy" fanfic is also attempting to fill in those inconsistencies with logically explanations for the characters action that the writers did not have a chance to do. The writers are creating a comedy and they only have time for a few minutes of L/P per week.

Edited June 30, 2013 by BangerMain

[mjc45]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but with the childhood that Leonard had I'm sure he grew up in a home where you pretty much learned to accept what is.  I think that is how he approaches Sheldon in a 'if you can't beat them, join them' type of mentality.  I think that is how he viewed Penny for a very long time.

 

Now I see him realizing that you don't have to accept things just because.  That you can stand up for some things and even make it better.  When he felt confident enough to move out on Sheldon was because he had somewhere else to go.  Granted he thought he would be more welcomed than he was. 

 

I think though that sometimes things are added into an episode for comedic effect and not necessarily for character development.  And that makes it hard to follow a certain progression in a relationship.

 

Oh BTW, can someone provide a link to Tensor's fanfic please?

IT IS IN THE FAN- FIC UNDER THE SHOWS

THE TITLE IS (CHEW TOY)

it is great read, a lot of us are followers of the story.

[Zhalen565]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but with the childhood that Leonard had I'm sure he grew up in a home where you pretty much learned to accept what is.  I think that is how he approaches Sheldon in a 'if you can't beat them, join them' type of mentality.  I think that is how he viewed Penny for a very long time.

 

Now I see him realizing that you don't have to accept things just because.  That you can stand up for some things and even make it better.  When he felt confident enough to move out on Sheldon was because he had somewhere else to go.  Granted he thought he would be more welcomed than he was. 

 

I think though that sometimes things are added into an episode for comedic effect and not necessarily for character development.  And that makes it hard to follow a certain progression in a relationship.

 

Oh BTW, can someone provide a link to Tensor's fanfic please?

Here you go, enjoy

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/9327819/1/The-Chew-Toy-Revelations

[Kasey]

Thank you mjc45 and zhalen565...

[SRAM]

I.AM.MOLLY

I am seeing your point about the 'Puppydog eyes' the more I think of it. I her mind she pictured a very vulnerable Leonard that she was going to hurt and she couldn't do it because she loved him. That is also why she had so much trouble explaining it to the girls afterward.

I also think the writers have been maturing the characters too during the show.

[Tensor]

I.AM.MOLLY

I am seeing your point about the 'Puppydog eyes' the more I think of it. I her mind she pictured a very vulnerable Leonard that she was going to hurt and she couldn't do it because she loved him. That is also why she had so much trouble explaining it to the girls afterward.

I look at it as a kind of dual reasoning. She couldn't bring herself to hurt Leonard again, as she did care deeply for him (I'm not sure at that point it was love, but hey, we all have a bit of a different look at it). Second, she was aware of how the first break up came back to bite her and she wanted to be absolutely sure before doing it this time. My reasoning for this is in the scenes before the scene with Leonard, she is quite confused and her comments indicate that it just isn't about hurting Leonard, it's also about her confusion (the scene with the girls, her "I've got a lot of things to figure out" to Sheldon). Leonard's puppy dog eyes are the impetus to keep her from breaking up with him, much as Wil Wheaton was the impetus to cause the break up the first time, even though, both times, there were other factors involved.

Hint, I guarantee you will see that somewhere else, later, in a different form.

 

I also think the writers have been maturing the characters too during the show.

Yeah, I think that started in season four. I say season four because, in the case of Howard, although he dated Bernadette in season three, his actions that season were still immature. Leonard and Penny learned quite a bit about relationships in season four, even if it wasn't about the two of them. And Sheldon and Amy.....that may have had to wait until season five, and it's moving slooooooooowwwwwwwwwly.

[Nogravitasatall]

" That's right, I just got all fluffy at the end, but let's be fair, this thread sort of needed it!" (I.Am.Molly post 2712)

I.am.Molly, I just have to take issue with you about the level of fluff here. This has got to be about the fluffiest thing that many here do. It's just a new, "better",' boring kind of fluff. Hehehehe.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[I.Am.Molly]

" That's right, I just got all fluffy at the end, but let's be fair, this thread sort of needed it!" (I.Am.Molly post 2712)

I.am.Molly, I just have to take issue with you about the level of fluff here. This has got to be about the fluffiest thing that many here do. It's just a new, "better",' boring kind of fluff. Hehehehe.

 

Ah, come on now, you have to admit it did get a little negative back there. Just bringing the love back a little.

[Nogravitasatall]

I have really been enjoying the recent dialogue going on in this topic. One thing great about you guys is that you can argue like adults and not insult each other like people in other topics.

I don't know why, but this just riles me up.

.

But I also think it reflects the preferences of types who like Leonard and Penny. They (L/P) are dysfunctional but not so out there. Shenny is WAY out there. And Shamy is just perfect, except for Sheldon being a dork to Amy >50% of the time (has anyone just done the math on that?). I also believe most of Penny and Leonard's problems can be sorted by talking. In Tensor's thought experiment, that's what they are doing. Maybe thats an attraction to a type and that shows in the style here.

I should find a Transformers fan site and check out the quality and style of discourse for contrast. (Not).

Totally wasting time here.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[SRAM]

Ahhhh.....Come on, you know Leonard and Penny are the fluff epicenter.

[I.Am.Molly]

Ahhhh.....Come on, you know Leonard and Penny are the fluff epicenter.

 

Haha! Yes they are. But i was referring to the fact the conversations inside the thread were getting a little negative, not the relationship itself.

[Nogravitasatall]

I have a vision of the hairy biker types sitting in a bar, like the Sons of Anarchy crowd, discussing Leonard and Penny. Then hitting each other with pool cues when they disagree.

[Nogravitasatall]

Ah, come on now, you have to admit it did get a little negative back there. Just bringing the love back a little.

And you better not stop. Don't leave us! (its not like we've just been shopping and I'm wearing contacts but you get the analogy).