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Leonard And Penny Shippers Thread (Possible Spoilers)


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I think that it could be done in a humorous way, depending on how Leonard turns her down and how she reacts.   As for Leonard not actually doing something like that, I think that the writers have been showing growth in the Leonard character (Penny too) especially in this season.   I think that when he confronted Penny about how she fixated on her old boyfriend when Leonard took her out for a romantic dinner is an indication of this.  I also think that Leonard turning down a marraige proposal from Penny, not because he doesn't want to marry her, but because he doesn't think that she is ready for that type of commitment at this time in her life, shows that he is mature enough to care more about Penny's well being then his own wishes.   Isn't that one of the major pillars of true love?

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It would have been a bit hard for Leonard to compare Penny to his friends girlfriends, seeing as he fell for Penny in the first episode, prior to Bernadette or Amy ever appearing.  And who was it that

I think you are right. Penny's problem with Leonard is that, in spite of the fact she's known him for six years, she's still getting used to him as her SO. There are two likely reasons. First, her exp

Before I start off let me just say that I understand that not everyone is a fan of the romantics that seem to be taking place more and more as the new season progresses. I'm get it, everyone has their

I think that it could be done in a humorous way, depending on how Leonard turns her down and how she reacts.   As for Leonard not actually doing something like that, I think that the writers have been showing growth in the Leonard character (Penny too) especially in this season.   I think that when he confronted Penny about how she fixated on her old boyfriend when Leonard took her out for a romantic dinner is an indication of this.  I also think that Leonard turning down a marraige proposal from Penny, not because he doesn't want to marry her, but because he doesn't think that she is ready for that type of commitment at this time in her life, shows that he is mature enough to care more about Penny's well being then his own wishes.   Isn't that one of the major pillars of true love?

When did Penny propose marriage? She asked him to be her valentine. Not the same thing. 

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And she tries to help him out with the committee by wearing her very best "mourning" clothes...

Together, they're a lethal combo, an unstoppable machine ! Their kids will be smart, beautiful and delightfully shrewd. 

 

 

That is the whole thing about their relationship.  She would not exceed in his world of science and he has so much trouble in her world of social coolness.  But together, they can do anything and can be comfortable in both worlds.  That has been one of the plots of the whole show.  That is why the show would take a huge blow if they were not together.

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I think that it could be done in a humorous way, depending on how Leonard turns her down and how she reacts.   As for Leonard not actually doing something like that, I think that the writers have been showing growth in the Leonard character (Penny too) especially in this season.   I think that when he confronted Penny about how she fixated on her old boyfriend when Leonard took her out for a romantic dinner is an indication of this.  I also think that Leonard turning down a marraige proposal from Penny, not because he doesn't want to marry her, but because he doesn't think that she is ready for that type of commitment at this time in her life, shows that he is mature enough to care more about Penny's well being then his own wishes.   Isn't that one of the major pillars of true love?

Undeniably, Leonard demonstrating he is capable of overcoming his sincere desire to marry Penny by not jumping at the first opportunity to wed her, whether or not she is ready, would be a very beautiful way for him to prove the depth of his love. And you couldn't be any more right when you say that him refusing a proposal by Penny because he feels she is not ready or not doing it for the right reasons would be a way to show that.

Nevertheless, I am afraid it has already been done, in a way, when he told her he would no longer propose and let her do it.

 

When Penny gave her reasons for interrupting his second proposal, she said that she was afraid he would keep on asking her to marry him and, because she is so happy with him, she'd end up accepting, regardless of her level of readiness. And that frightened her for it may lead to a bad marriage. That (her agreeing to marry him just because she loves him and not because she also feels ready for it) is pretty equivalent to her proposing for the wrong reasons. 

And Leonard reacted perfectly to that fear. He responded in the exact way you recommend : he put his own desire on the backburner and said he'd wait for her to be ready and propose to him, thereby making sure she would not feel coerced into accepting one of his proposals just to appease/please him. 

 

I am not opposed to the scenario you put forward, mind you. It would be further evidence of Leonard's respect for Penny's feelings and his desire for their marriage to be a long-lasting and happy one. But it would "simply" be a confirmation of what we already know, not the proof of a newer, deeper level of commitment. Leonard has proven his devotion as unequivocally as possible, I feel. 

 

When did Penny propose marriage? She asked him to be her valentine. Not the same thing. 

I think rickfromillinois was refering to the hypothetical case in which Leonard would refuse Penny's proposal if he felt she was motivated by the wrong reasons. Rickfromillinois simply jumped from a reference to the Valentine's Day episode to the speculative scenario in order to demonstrate Hypothetical Leonard's behaviour would be consistent with Canon Leonard's past attitude. 

 

That is the whole thing about their relationship.  She would not exceed in his world of science and he has so much trouble in her world of social coolness.  But together, they can do anything and can be comfortable in both worlds.  That has been one of the plots of the whole show.  That is why the show would take a huge blow if they were not together.

Word ! (Look at me, saying "word", being street-y... So convincing and entirely believable !)

Edited by Chiara
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Undeniably, Leonard demonstrating he is capable of overcoming his sincere desire to marry Penny by not jumping at the first opportunity to wed her, whether or not she is ready, would be a very beautiful way for him to prove the depth of his love. And you couldn't be any more right when you say that him refusing a proposal by Penny because he feels she is not ready or not doing it for the right reasons would be a way to show that.

Nevertheless, I am afraid it has already been done, in a way, when he told her he would no longer propose and let her do it.

 

When Penny gave her reasons for interrupting his second proposal, she said that she was afraid he would keep on asking her to marry him and, because she is so happy with him, she'd end up accepting, regardless of her level of readiness. And that frightened her for it may lead to a bad marriage. That (her agreeing to marry him just because she loves him and not because she also feels ready for it) is pretty equivalent to her proposing for the wrong reasons. 

And Leonard reacted perfectly to that fear. He responded in the exact way you recommend : he put his own desire on the backburner and said he'd wait for her to be ready and propose to him, thereby making sure she would not feel coerced into accepting one of his proposals just to appease/please him. 

 

Great reasoning!

 

By having Penny propose under the conditions he set forth in the Valentine's episode, Leonard is assured that Penny will be prepared for a long and happy marriage. He knows of her fears about being hurt again and he won't marry her until is certain he has healed her wounds and her mind is at ease. He saw from her reaction to the proposal of her ex-boyfriend to her former friend that she has some issue about committing and leaving herself open to a massive heartache.

 

Leonard has been shown to have made amazing progress in getting her to trust again:

 

- she does not run away now when he talks about love,

- she now talks about her feelings and insecurities,

- she accepts his criticisms when she knows he is right

- she changes herself to make him happy

- she knows the reason she is frightened about commitment

 

As Variety said in the review of TBBT Valentine's episode, TPTB know how to handle their relationship now.

Edited by BangerMain
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Great reasoning!

 

By having Penny propose under the conditions he set forth in the Valentine's episode, Leonard is assured that Penny will be prepared for a long and happy marriage. He knows of her fears about being hurt again and he won't marry her until is certain he has healed her wounds and her mind is at ease. He saw from her reaction to the proposal of her ex-boyfriend to her former friend that she has some issue about committing and leaving herself open to a massive heartache.

 

Leonard has been shown to have made amazing progress in getting her to trust again:

 

- she does not run away now when he talks about love,

- she now talks about her feelings and insecurities,

- she accepts his criticisms when she knows he is right

- she changes herself to make him happy

- she knows the reason she is frightened about commitment

 

As Variety said in the review of TBBT Valentine's episode, TPTB know how to handle their relationship now.

 

It's to the point where L/P aren't going to break up.  There could  will be bumps and bruises, but they won't break up within the context of how the characters have now come to be defined.   If they do break up, either Penny does something to cause the breakup, which pretty much destroys the character as she is currently written.  Or, Leonard breaks up with her, which destroys Penny, within the context of the show, by her, again, being rejected by someone she has come to trust, open up, and confess her love to.  Of course, this would pretty much require the writers to destroy Leonard, as written. 

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It's to the point where L/P aren't going to break up.  There could  will be bumps and bruises, but they won't break up within the context of how the characters have now come to be defined.   If they do break up, either Penny does something to cause the breakup, which pretty much destroys the character as she is currently written.  Or, Leonard breaks up with her, which destroys Penny, within the context of the show, by her, again, being rejected by someone she has come to trust, open up, and confess her love to.  Of course, this would pretty much require the writers to destroy Leonard, as written. 

Yes. They have written L/P into a "Happiness" corner. Without completely destroying the characters, which would cause outrage in the viewers, we are pretty much in the countdown phase for the canon couple. There is only "when" now, not "if".

Edited by BangerMain
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I'm glad the way they have gone with things personally... Even if they are in a corner I think its the right place to be. I mean they are pretty much at the core of the show and however predictable it might be it's nice seeing them happy

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Wow, the last few posts have gotten pretty deep. I can live with them fighting some, after all her temper is like a firecracker with a short fuse, but they are at a point that it would take something really bad to cause a break up (like one of them sleeping with someone else), which I don't see happening.

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Wow, the last few posts have gotten pretty deep. I can live with them fighting some, after all her temper is like a firecracker with a short fuse, but they are at a point that it would take something really bad to cause a break up (like one of them sleeping with someone else), which I don't see happening.

you know, it is possible to be one of the reason that to minimalize or to overcome that fear of sleeping with someone else they have to move in together . Perhaps, we will get it on last episode of this final season haha.

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I don't know - I think the living arrangements are like another character.  I don't know if Lorre will mess with that any time soon.  In 2 1/2 Men the guys always end up living together in the house, regardless of other relationships, engagements, temporary attempts to live elsewhere, etc.  And not to bring up a dreaded Friends comparison, but to me it was just weird when Chandler hooked up with Monica, and he and Rachel switched apartments.  

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I was looking for the Variety review, and I can't find it online. Is there a link BangerMain?

Great reasoning!

 

By having Penny propose under the conditions he set forth in the Valentine's episode, Leonard is assured that Penny will be prepared for a long and happy marriage. He knows of her fears about being hurt again and he won't marry her until is certain he has healed her wounds and her mind is at ease. He saw from her reaction to the proposal of her ex-boyfriend to her former friend that she has some issue about committing and leaving herself open to a massive heartache.

 

Leonard has been shown to have made amazing progress in getting her to trust again:

 

- she does not run away now when he talks about love,

- she now talks about her feelings and insecurities,

- she accepts his criticisms when she knows he is right

- she changes herself to make him happy

- she knows the reason she is frightened about commitment

 

As Variety said in the review of TBBT Valentine's episode, TPTB know how to handle their relationship now.

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I find it interesting that we will have the three pair-bonded couples together and competing in the recently taped episode for the first time. Sheldon and Howard, and Amy and Bernadette got into it over the parking space, but Leonard and Penny were above it all. Further, Leonard and Penny are actually the "new" couple, as the first two couples have been formally together much longer. Penny pined for Leonard two years, and we've felt that Leonard really would have had Penny even when he was with Priya, but they weren't together.

Part of the fun will be to see Penny, as the nonscientist, functioning in a social academic environment. She's been the slow reader with street smarts when together with the other girls, bullied them a bit with the paper for her class, and appears to be more socially adept (but Bernadette is more of an unknown quantity here. She is far less nerdy than Amy, and has had a least some dating experience. They seem to show two sides to her. One is the tough little cookie and the other is the mousy little blonde. I'm still suprised she let Penny dominate her over the term paper thing. That was an odd episode.).

It will be fun as Penny will play the tenure game in a whole different way from the other girls, and will make Leonard a unique candidate. As Penny is presented as significantly hotter than the other girls, she could be seen as a trophy for Leonard. Amy and Bernadette are more traditional types of partners. I don't recall if Howard is really in the chase for the tenure slot, so we may just see Penny and Amy square off. This will certainly strain the bff relationship.

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Wow, the last few posts have gotten pretty deep. I can live with them fighting some, after all her temper is like a firecracker with a short fuse, but they are at a point that it would take something really bad to cause a break up (like one of them sleeping with someone else), which I don't see happening.

Nobody expects smooth sailing. How terribly dull   ;)

Even happily married people fight on occasion. As a matter of fact, and while I have no firsthand knowledge of marriage, it seems to me that long-lasting couples are those who fight the most. Not in terms of intensity, necessarily, but in terms of regularity. They deal with problems when they happen and do not fear disagreement. 

 

So we have many conflicts to look forward to... and many reconcilations as well. Goody ! 

 

I find it interesting that we will have the three pair-bonded couples together and competing in the recently taped episode for the first time. Sheldon and Howard, and Amy and Bernadette got into it over the parking space, but Leonard and Penny were above it all. Further, Leonard and Penny are actually the "new" couple, as the first two couples have been formally together much longer. Penny pined for Leonard two years, and we've felt that Leonard really would have had Penny even when he was with Priya, but they weren't together.

Part of the fun will be to see Penny, as the nonscientist, functioning in a social academic environment. She's been the slow reader with street smarts when together with the other girls, bullied them a bit with the paper for her class, and appears to be more socially adept (but Bernadette is more of an unknown quantity here. She is far less nerdy than Amy, and has had a least some dating experience. They seem to show two sides to her. One is the tough little cookie and the other is the mousy little blonde. I'm still suprised she let Penny dominate her over the term paper thing. That was an odd episode.).

It will be fun as Penny will play the tenure game in a whole different way from the other girls, and will make Leonard a unique candidate. As Penny is presented as significantly hotter than the other girls, she could be seen as a trophy for Leonard. Amy and Bernadette are more traditional types of partners. I don't recall if Howard is really in the chase for the tenure slot, so we may just see Penny and Amy square off. This will certainly strain the bff relationship.

 

I may be wrong but I do not think Bernadette will be involved in the tenure cagefight. My understanding is that Howard is not trying to get the job so his wife has little reason to mobilise her evil alter ego to tear her friends a new one :)

 

If fight there is, it will probably be between Penny and Amy, mirroring the tug-of-war between Leonard and Sheldon. Chances are, this confrontation will cut much deeper than what took place between Wolowitz and Cooper.

Firstly because this time around there is nothing trivial about the conflict. When Sheldon and Howard fought over the parking spot, it was delightfully inane : Sheldon does not have a car and does not need a spot (I know he does not need nipples either, but you get my drift). The spot was just a mindless and irrelevant attribute neither Howard nor Sheldon really craved until they were put in a difficult situation about it. This time, it is about a truly important matter : tenure is a momentous thing in an academic's life. It means job security and freedom of research, on top of professional recognition. This fight could go deep.

Secondly because Penny and Amy do not have the same type of relationship as Amy and Bernadette. The latter are very good friends; the former are "besties" (at least to Amy). They cannot dish it out in the same way. While Amy and Bernie fighting may be inconsequential in the long run, the same thing cannot be said about Amy and Penny being at war. Just like Sheldon and Howard do not have the kind of bond Leonard and Sheldon have.

 

I do not know if the writers intend to have the ladies fight an alternative version of their men's struggle. They very well might. But I sort of hope it doesn't get beyond the stage we see in The Tenure Turbulence : Amy being admirative of and intrigued by Penny's manipulative endeavours and Penny just having a bit of fun with it, not getting overly involved. I am certain both women sincerely want their boyfriends to be happy and get what they want but this is one hell of a hot potato... I am all for them showing support to their respective S.O.s, however this is high stakes poker now. So I hope they give their partners all the help they can without feeling the need to destroy the opponent at every turn. Positive energy all around ! Especially considering that Penny is a bit stuck in the middle : she loves Leonard but Sheldon is her surrogate little brother/son. If she goes all junior rodeo on people's bottoms, it may get very ugly, very fast. 

Edited by Chiara
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A possible fight over tenure has one thing in common with the fight over the parking spot. It is assigned by the University, and is ultimately out of their control. Since the three of them are on a short list, then someone has to decide who gets it. If Leonard and Sheldon start publicly fighting over it their actions could piss off whoever decides and they could give it to Raj, simply because he was the least annoying of the three.

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I recall the squabbling over the paper they did in the first season, with Howard posting the video to YouTube. I don't think we'll see a repeat of that sort of thing, but there are a lot of parallels. This, the Artic expedition and the phone app are the times I recall them working together, and each time Sheldon's view was it was all about him. Even to the point that the app should be named after him. In the paper, he maintained that Leonard's work was basically a footnote since the theoretical work didn't need confirming (he even stated that the other scientists should have accepted the conclusions without experimental confirmation, which is baloney. Theoretical predictions are not truly accepted without experimental proof, so this was the height of arrogance. In the Artic expedition, the only way Sheldon could have reported his conclusions that fast is if he had calculated the results prior to the trip, and was only willing to accept confirmatory data. His intention to cut the other guys out of the work is also unscientific. Basically, Sheldon is a bad scientist, and giving him tenure would be wrong based on the evidence presented earlier. However, if he and Kripke, working together, scored major grant funding for the university, this erases a lot of sins. Universities are all about grant money (I'm a tenured science professor, so I know all about that) and funding = promotion, including tenure.

Leonard got the funding for his laser work, so he qualifies there too. Plus the professional validation would be a nice development of the character. He's been looked down upon as being academically light by both his mother and Sheldon. Quite frankly, I'm surprised that he suffers Sheldon's constant putdowns. Hardly an episode goes by that Sheldon doesn't say something truly awful to him about his science. He even has more respect for Howard, as he says he's good at what he does (just that it isn't worth doing). In the Higgs-Boson episode, he states that Leonard was really only suited for menial work like sorting through his childhood work. It would be justice is Leonard got tenure first, validating himself academically, and having beat Sheldon out for something Sheldon clearly wants. It would be funny to see Sheldon trying to denigrate tenure after Leonard got it. I can just imagine Sheldon claiming it was only Penny's hotness that mattered, which would also be a putdown of Leonard, Penny and Amy.

Kripke getting tenure is the likely solution though, as even Sheldon has acknowledged that his work on the fusion project was better than his. It would play on their competition, and keep the two roomies even. I doubt could stay room mates if Leonard got tenure, as Sheldon couldn't tolerate it, and Leonard does tend to gloat when he gets one up on Sheldon. It might even smooth over some of the rough spots in their relationship. I would like to see Leonard and Sheldonwork together again, since it seemed they did something ground breaking together in the first season. Leonard would have to be living with Penny first though. They'd be fighting all the time otherwise.

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Interesting thought here. They are setting up to work on giving Penny a better career. What if they are working on giving Leonard some vindication for his career. They could then use these as a point of tension or conflict between L/P to drive stories.

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Interesting thought here. They are setting up to work on giving Penny a better career. What if they are working on giving Leonard some vindication for his career. They could then use these as a point of tension or conflict between L/P to drive stories.

I can see where if both of their careers took off there would be conflict, but there would be a bigger problem, like someone has said before, if Penny becomes a star, it makes no sense her staying in her apartment and living the way she does. So to keep the show the way it is, she will never be able to make it as big in her career as Leonard will be able in his.

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I can see where if both of their careers took off there would be conflict, but there would be a bigger problem, like someone has said before, if Penny becomes a star, it makes no sense her staying in her apartment and living the way she does. So to keep the show the way it is, she will never be able to make it as big in her career as Leonard will be able in his.

 

Oh, no.  I understand that.  I'm just envisioning a more successful tenured Leonard having to do more traveling and more meetings and more in general.  If Penny had to do location or night work, while Leonard is working more, there could be various conflicts.  I don't see Penny becoming a major star.  I do see a possibility of her becoming someone who gets regular gigs in bit parts or guest starring roles.  Of course, the normal caveats apply, the writers can do whatever they damn well please, even if it screws up the characters.    

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It really seemed that Penny was drinking again in this episode. The other girls looked better than her and her hair was a little bit of a mess. Also when Leonard at the end was obviously turned on by her she looked at him funny.

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Penny was a mess.  And what guy drops his pants to his ankles, and leaves them there while he unbuttons his shirt?  I know it was just for laughs but I was already annoyed at Leonard's gig at the school so I just rolled my eyes.    

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Penny was a mess.  And what guy drops his pants to his ankles, and leaves them there while he unbuttons his shirt?  I know it was just for laughs but I was already annoyed at Leonard's gig at the school so I just rolled my eyes.    

I know. I really didn't like that last scene with L/P.

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