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Leonard And Penny Shippers Thread (Possible Spoilers)


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Great minds think alike. The coincidence was striking. Thanks for sharing.

 

I was wondering, can anyone think of whether Penny has contributed to the upgrade of the relationship yet? As far as I can remember, she's either been holding the relationship back, or been dragged forward by Leonard. That's why the inadvertent stealth move in seemed likely. I can't believe that Leonard would deliberately stealth move in, and Penny hasn't initiated any relationship upgrades yet. They're in a weird place, in that Leonard put Penny in control of the pace of the relationship, but so far she's done nothing. I'm not saying that she's dragging her feet as it hasn't been all that long in "show time" since the VD episode, so just simply settling into the nice stable situation they have now is fine. However, if my guess is correct, then we have no history of Penny raising the stakes in the Lenny yet. One would expect some action next season, but as to what that would look like, I have no guess. 

 

episode 3.1 she starts their first relationship without any initiation from Leonard.... does this count??

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Great minds think alike. The coincidence was striking.

Yeah it was, wasn't it?

 

I was wondering, can anyone think of whether Penny has contributed to the upgrade of the relationship yet? As far as I can remember, she's either been holding the relationship back, or been dragged forward by Leonard. That's why the inadvertent stealth move in seemed likely. I can't believe that Leonard would deliberately stealth move in, and Penny hasn't initiated any relationship upgrades yet. They're in a weird place, in that Leonard put Penny in control of the pace of the relationship, but so far she's done nothing. I'm not saying that she's dragging her feet as it hasn't been all that long in "show time" since the VD episode, so just simply settling into the nice stable situation they have now is fine. However, if my guess is correct, then we have no history of Penny raising the stakes in the Lenny yet. One would expect some action next season, but as to what that would look like, I have no guess.

It's gonna, sorta, kinda depend on what you mean by dragging it forward. She grabbed Leonard on his return from the North Pole, something Leonard wouldn't have done. In 5.23 she suggested moving the relationship faster. Not breaking up with him after the marriage proposal (as she would probably have done in the past)could also be considered as moving forward. She went to the Leonard's lab to learn more about what he did. I'm not talking about the sex here, just the fact that she wanted to learn more about his job, which strengthend their relationship, could be considered raising the stakes. Her being willing to talk thing out, instead of ignoring them qualifies, I would think. I realize these are subtle, but her investing more in the relationship could, depending on one's definition, meets your criteria. I would also think that her support of, and saying he should take, the position on the experimental team is a rather large step in their relationship. I'm not saying she couldn't move things faster, but I think there are some examples.

Edited by Tensor
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@hamerman55, this is why i bang on about seeing a key. Its a symbol. Or if you bang it, maybe a cymbal. Either, it would be a small thing for them to do. The im passionate speech and the eating upgrades are other things they have done, but as you say mostly she allows rather than gives.

Again maybe they blow that one away for s7

I see what you mean. I like your turn of phrase "allows rather than gives". So far, Leonard has done all the heavy lifting in this relationship. Apart from "The Electric Can Opener Fluctuation", all she's done is initiate sex for the first time at that stage of the relationship. Sex, while an important, involves no risk on her part and hasn't really been coupled to any change in the relationship other than they now have sex. Even in this case, one gets the feeling that she'd been pining over him all summer, and was in denial prior to that. Further, in the two times we've seen where she initiated sex, there wasn't a lot of thought before hand. In fact, the ILY sort of slipped out of her in the heat of an argument. She's never sat down, thought about it and moved things forward.

Leonard deserves major respect for starting the Beta Test. He showed some big brass ones by asking Penny out after wargaming his way through it. His best take was that it would be a mess, but he was willing to put it out there. He had no knowledge of Penny's pining for him all through the Priya relationship. She sniped at her a bit but it seems that Leonard didn't pick up on it. I wonder if she would have said something if she hadn't almost slept with Raj. The sense I got was that she was stepping very lightly around Leonard. She did drop a big hint about liking the "take charge" Leonard, but really, she was the one to dump him. It was her place to speak.

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@tensor, I believe you are right. I hadn't thought about it that way. I suppose I was focused on the living together step. She's actually put quite a bit of effort into keeping things rolling, and not letting little things be problems. I'm having to get used to the idea of Penny being as invested in the relationship now as Leonard.

@vasu, I have mixed feelings about how to classify "The Electric Can Opener Fluctuation" kiss. While I wanted to cheer, I also felt like it was about damn time. She was the queen of mixed signals in season 2, starting with the makeout contest in the hall in the second episode. However, that was the official start of Leonard and Penny 1.0.

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Yeah it was, wasn't it?

It's gonna, sorta, kinda depend on what you mean by dragging it forward. She grabbed Leonard on his return from the North Pole, something Leonard wouldn't have done. In 5.23 she suggested moving the relationship faster. Not breaking up with him after the marriage proposal (as she would probably have done in the past)could also be considered as moving forward. She went to the Leonard's lab to learn more about what he did. I'm not talking about the sex here, just the fact that she wanted to learn more about his job, which strengthend their relationship, could be considered raising the stakes. Her being willing to talk thing out, instead of ignoring them qualifies, I would think. I realize these are subtle, but her investing more in the relationship could, depending on one's definition, meets your criteria. I would also think that her support of, and saying he should take, the position on the experimental team is a rather large step in their relationship. I'm not saying she couldn't move things faster, but I think there are some examples.

yeah... Ok but what about

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testing our closure ?? :p

lol. Kinda. Im supposed to doing something. And often ive got nuthin'

But.. What about her running after him sometime. Its all a bit understated except for the post Arctic thaw. I get what Tensor says but leonard seems to have had to work hard to get this far.

Make it a gender equity issue dammit. Equal opportunity to be chased around.

Not worth the wait really

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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episode 3.1 she starts their first relationship without any initiation from Leonard.... does this count??

 

For me the kiss was almost null due to Penny running after Sheldon.  Penny was more concern about Sheldon than she was about Leonard and that didn't sit right with me.  I think what gets to me is that Penny bends over backwards to comfort Sheldon and most times brush Leonard off.

 

I know she was concerned about Sheldon but come on.... his actions is what pushed the guys to go there.  Yes, it was wrong and they apoglize for their part in it.  Yet, Sheldon is the one that gets all the attention, all the understanding, all his needs taking care of.

Edited by ArmyGirl
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Yeah it was, wasn't it?

 

It's gonna, sorta, kinda depend on what you mean by dragging it forward. She grabbed Leonard on his return from the North Pole, something Leonard wouldn't have done. In 5.23 she suggested moving the relationship faster. Not breaking up with him after the marriage proposal (as she would probably have done in the past)could also be considered as moving forward. She went to the Leonard's lab to learn more about what he did. I'm not talking about the sex here, just the fact that she wanted to learn more about his job, which strengthend their relationship, could be considered raising the stakes. Her being willing to talk thing out, instead of ignoring them qualifies, I would think. I realize these are subtle, but her investing more in the relationship could, depending on one's definition, meets your criteria. I would also think that her support of, and saying he should take, the position on the experimental team is a rather large step in their relationship. I'm not saying she couldn't move things faster, but I think there are some examples.

 

 

Tensor, I get what you are saying.  Think of it this way Penny put more effort into the relationship she had with Kurt.  She when into debt for the (loser) guy and that was nothing subtle in that, it show she really cared for him. So why not put more effort into what she feels for Leonard.

 

As for going to Leonard job, that is due in part to Amy, Bernie and to a point Alex that she did.  As for not breaking up with Leonard after the proposal that would have been dumb in my opinion, she got away with it once when Leonard told her he loved her and I just don't see the viewers buying into again.  I stil think the relationship is still too one sided and it's time that Penny stepped up to the plate. 

 

I will wait to see how Penny handle the information of Leonard job opportunity before I can say it's real growth on her part.

Edited by ArmyGirl
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@tensor, I believe you are right. I hadn't thought about it that way. I suppose I was focused on the living together step. She's actually put quite a bit of effort into keeping things rolling, and not letting little things be problems. I'm having to get used to the idea of Penny being as invested in the relationship now as Leonard.

Yeah, but it's only been this year that she's done that (not counting 5.23). I do give her credit for not running out after the proposal, however, she again thought about breaking up with him in 6.02 (although, again, she hung in there). Then, the next week, she started on the path to being actively involved in and working on the relationship. My whole complaint about it, is that it's never been specified, so we don't know why she has such a problem with commitment. Most people suspect it's because of her bad relationship with Kurt and Mike, but we don't know. At least we're now aware that she knows she has commitment problems, but we don't know why she has those problems. I would really like the character to actually verbalized exactly what she is so afraid of.

In some ways it's funny as the character has demonstrated that she is not one to be involved in a cheating situation. She'll break it off, once she is aware. So if she isn't interested in cheating herself or going with someone who is cheating, why would she be worried about being in a relationship with Leonard? After all, she dismisses the idea of Leonard cheating or breaking up with her, and thus dismisses her getting hurt by him. If she is so dismissive about Leonard hurting her, why is she worried about opening up and being in a relationship with him? They're contradictory.

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For me the kiss was almost null due to Penny running after Sheldon.  Penny was more concern about Sheldon than she was about Leonard and that didn't sit right with me.  I think what gets to me is that Penny bends over backwards to comfort Sheldon and most times brush Leonard off.

 

I know she was concerned about Sheldon but come on.... his actions is what pushed the guys to go there.  Yes, it was wrong and they apoglize for their part in it.  Yet, Sheldon is the one that gets all the attention, all the understanding, all his needs.

 

 

As I have said before , whole season 3 was THE SHELDON SHOW  , it was clear what the writers were trying to do most of the times, create situations using leonard-penny relationship so Sheldon can make jokes about them , instead of telling a good story.( I can give few examples also)

 

I am not saying that they were bad or they were not funny .... but they could have a done a better job... ,

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Hi all

 

Just want to say that this is my favourite thread due to the brilliant insights of the likes of Tensor, hamerman,, chiara et al. I have lurked on this forum for years but this only my second post.

 

I have a couple of questions which I'm sure one or more of you will be able to help me with.

 

Two phrases used in (I think) S6 intrigue me.

 

They are SHAGGING (referring to sexual intercourse) and ON A STICKY WICKET (referring to a difficult situation). Both of these are, I believe, of British origin. Certainly the second one derives from the game of cricket which is a very English game.

 

I wonder if these phrases have entered the American idiom or just been thrown into the show by the

writers.

 

Keep making your insightful comments as I find Lenny shippers to be the most rational and least antagonistic, which now makes a Lenny shipper.

 

 

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Tensor, I get what you are saying.  Think of it this way Penny put more effort into the relationship she had with Kurt.  She when into debt for the (loser) guy and that was nothing subtle that, it show she really cared for him. So why not put more effort into what she feels for Leonard.

I don't think they're comparable. She lived with Kurt for four years and you don't just shut off those feelings. She has yet to live with Leonard and it has only been seven months since she had the thought of ending it. All you have to do is compare the Penny of 6.02 and the Penny of the recent episode to see how far she's come this year. I have no problem agreeing with her lack of effort prior to 6.05.

 

As for going to Leonard job, that is due in part to Amy, Bernie and to a point Alex that she did.

Which matters not. She is the one that had to actually go to the lab, in addition to her rather skewed view of what she expected out of a relationship. She was working to change her idea of and the effort put into her relationship with Leonard.

 

As for not breaking up with Leonard after the proposal that would have been dumb in my opinion, she got away with it once when Leonard told her he loved her and I just don't see the viewers buying into again.

If you're going to try to analyze the character, you can't worry about what the viewers will or will not buy. Because then you are saying the problem is with the writers and thus, the character has no say in the matter. And saying it's the writers is fine, but then you can't analyze the character as if the character has free will.

 

I stil think the relationship is still to one sided and it's time that Penny stepped up to the plate.

It hasn't really been one sided since 6.12 "Egg Salad". Penny's verbalized her worry about Leonard breaking up with her twice since(and including) that episode. Leonard said it at the end of last year, and in 6.05, but hasn't since. He's also become much more assertive (see his charge into her apartment in "The Tangible Affection Proof". She stated she was at the memorial service to "support her man", not to mention she is the one that suggested to Leonard that she help him.

 

I will wait to see how Penny handle the information of Leonard job opportunity before I can say it's real growth on her part.

The problem with this thread is that spoilers are allowed. But since you don't seem to know, I won't say anything.

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Tensor, on 30 Apr 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Yeah, but it's only been this year that she's done that (not counting 5.23). I do give her credit for not running out after the proposal, however, she again thought about breaking up with him in 6.02 (although, again, she hung in there). Then, the next week, she started on the path to being actively involved in and working on the relationship. My whole complaint about it, is that it's never been specified, so we don't know why she has such a problem with commitment. Most people suspect it's because of her bad relationship with Kurt and Mike, but we don't know. At least we're now aware that she knows she has commitment problems, but we don't know why she has those problems. I would really like the character to actually verbalized exactly what she is so afraid of.

In some ways it's funny as the character has demonstrated that she is not one to be involved in a cheating situation. She'll break it off, once she is aware. So if she isn't interested in cheating herself or going with someone who is cheating, why would she be worried about being in a relationship with Leonard? After all, she dismisses the idea of Leonard cheating or breaking up with her, and thus dismisses her getting hurt by him. If she is so dismissive about Leonard hurting her, why is she worried about opening up and being in a relationship with him? They're contradictory.

The only logical explanation of this is that she thought she could do better than Leonard(starting from beta-test time)..... and that is the reason she thought of breaking up with him again in 6.02...

Edited by vasu

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The only logical explanation of this is that she thought she could do better than Leonard(starting from beta-test time)..... and that is the reason she thought of breaking up with him again in 6.02...

It's not the ONLY logical explanation. Leonard was pushing her, something she didn't like at the time, again in 6.01. If she thinks she can do better, she would have broken up with him in 5.23. There's no reason to stay with him if she's upset with the proposal. Or, she is just unsure of her feelings, as she stated. Nor, is there any reason for her to be jealous of Alex in 6.03.

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Maybe Leonard can accidentally pull a Dr. Stephanie. It could be innocent little things like they need to change the sheets, and the only ones clean between them Leonard's Spiderman sheets. He already keeps inhalers there. He probably keeps clothes there so he can shower at her place before picking up Sheldon. At some point, Penny could notice that he's stealth moved in by accident. Leonard would be all apologetic after she accuses him, like the whole Alex hitting on him (like that was his fault). Then they could talk about it, and Penny decides she's actually OK with it, and invites him to stay. It wouldn't be a money thing, just convenience. They could even keep it a secret for a while to fool the other, until one of the other girls figures out.

 

Nope, don't want this due to Penny not wanting to live with Leonard, made that very clear in The Spoiler Alert Segmation.  All we would hear is that she was pushed into doing something she didn't want.  Penny is still all about having her own private space and isn't anywhere ready to change.  I don't want Leonard being the bad guy in the relationship anymore aka the 'Jerk'.

 

I do wish TPTB would give Leonard his own place and we all know that that would become the hang out place for the guys.  I know it won't happen, they have to kiept him in Sheldon orbit so he can keep being the old cashcow punching bag.

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In some ways it's funny as the character has demonstrated that she is not one to be involved in a cheating situation. She'll break it off, once she is aware. So if she isn't interested in cheating herself or going with someone who is cheating, why would she be worried about being in a relationship with Leonard? After all, she dismisses the idea of Leonard cheating or breaking up with her, and thus dismisses her getting hurt by him. If she is so dismissive about Leonard hurting her, why is she worried about opening up and being in a relationship with him? They're contradictory.

In 'The Weekend Vortex' Penny said:

 

Penny: Mm. You know, Amy, sometimes when you’re in a relationship with someone you really care about, the sucky part is, it leaves you open to getting hurt.

Amy: Do you ever worry about Leonard doing that to you?

Penny: That’s hilarious. No.

 

It was ambiguous whether she meant Leonard would never hurt her or she wasn't that invested in the relationship. At least that's how I took the statement.

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In 'The Weekend Vortex' Penny said:

 

Penny: Mm. You know, Amy, sometimes when you’re in a relationship with someone you really care about, the sucky part is, it leaves you open to getting hurt.

Amy: Do you ever worry about Leonard doing that to you?

Penny: That’s hilarious. No.

 

It was ambiguous whether she meant Leonard would never hurt her or she wasn't that invested in the relationship. At least that's how I took the statement.

 

I think we can take it as her confidently(arrogantly ;)) saying that Leonard would never hurt her

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I do wish TPTB would give Leonard his own place and we all know that that would become the hang out place for the guys.  I know it won't happen, they have to kiept him in Sheldon orbit so he can keep being the old cashcow punching bag.

 

Its a problem. I might say a three body problem. boom tish

 

The slow reader made a science joke. Hope I got there first (Tensor did I or? Or should I ask Pomita? I think she's the astrophysicist)

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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Re: Penny and Kurt vs Penny and Leonard - From the very little we've seen and heard about Kurt, and Penny's emotional state about relationships, I'm going to go out a limb here and say that I think Kurt was manipulative in a way Leonard could never hope to be. It seems that Kurt was often a jerk and Penny confronted him about it, and was never really happy in the relationship, but Kurt was the abusive type to make a lot of big gestures and big promises about changing his behavior which he never was able or never intended to keep. We know Penny has a huge heart - I can someone like Kurt, who would have spent money on her and wheedled away at her emotionally with a lot of promises (like the fact he was at her Halloween party because he swore he changed) that he didn't bother to keep after he got back into her good graces.

 

Leonard is not like that, and he never will be. When Penny is angry at him, he doesn't make puppy dog eyes and say "sorry, baby - you know I just can't help myself, I promise I'll never go it again, here's a pretty necklace and some flowers and I'll bombard you with gifts and texts and calls until you relent."

 

Leonard often tries to reason his way through it, or sincerely apologize, or try to make light of it. But he's not manipulative, he's always sincere and awkward and usually says something which makes things 10 times worse. (One day we'll look back on this moment and laugh! So why not start right now?!) This is part of why I find Leonard adorable, and part of what I think a part of Penny appreciates is different about him or any other boyfriend she ever had. Leonard isn't manipulative, and when he does cross the line (doing her paper for her) he admits his wrongdoing rather promptly and apologizes. But Leonard has never tried to buy her over with gifts or make her promises about how he's going to change or just been...that guy.

 

Leonard's not like any other guy Penny has ever dated, let alone met. Geniuses and nice guys like Leonard don't just drop from trees. I think a lot of instances, even from the very 2nd episode (chattering at Raj and saying "just because my ex is a jerk doesn't mean Leonard and Sheldon are, right?) is about Penny adjusting to how different her relationship with Leonard is than any other she's had in her life, and trying to "relearn" her expectations and emotional responses from all of the "losers" (as her Dad calls them) she's dated in her past.

 

I know it's ironic that Penny has worn her heart on her sleeve for loser after loser while she's struggled back and forth in her relationship with Leonard, but I think it just boils down to the fact he's so different from any other guy she's ever been with.

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In 'The Weekend Vortex' Penny said:

 

Penny: Mm. You know, Amy, sometimes when you’re in a relationship with someone you really care about, the sucky part is, it leaves you open to getting hurt.

Amy: Do you ever worry about Leonard doing that to you?

Penny: That’s hilarious. No.

 

It was ambiguous whether she meant Leonard would never hurt her or she wasn't that invested in the relationship. At least that's how I took the statement.

I'd like to think she thought Leonard would never hurt her. Leonard thought it too in his simulation of their reunion. Arrogance or unconcious certainty, I dont know.

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Re: Penny and Kurt vs Penny and Leonard - From the very little we've seen and heard about Kurt, and Penny's emotional state about relationships, I'm going to go out a limb here and say that I think Kurt was manipulative in a way Leonard could never hope to be. It seems that Kurt was often a jerk and Penny confronted him about it, and was never really happy in the relationship, but Kurt was the abusive type to make a lot of big gestures and big promises about changing his behavior which he never was able or never intended to keep. We know Penny has a huge heart - I can someone like Kurt, who would have spent money on her and wheedled away at her emotionally with a lot of promises (like the fact he was at her Halloween party because he swore he changed) that he didn't bother to keep after he got back into her good graces.

 

Leonard is not like that, and he never will be. When Penny is angry at him, he doesn't make puppy dog eyes and say "sorry, baby - you know I just can't help myself, I promise I'll never go it again, here's a pretty necklace and some flowers and I'll bombard you with gifts and texts and calls until you relent."

 

Leonard often tries to reason his way through it, or sincerely apologize, or try to make light of it. But he's not manipulative, he's always sincere and awkward and usually says something which makes things 10 times worse. (One day we'll look back on this moment and laugh! So why not start right now?!) This is part of why I find Leonard adorable, and part of what I think a part of Penny appreciates is different about him or any other boyfriend she ever had. Leonard isn't manipulative, and when he does cross the line (doing her paper for her) he admits his wrongdoing rather promptly and apologizes. But Leonard has never tried to buy her over with gifts or make her promises about how he's going to change or just been...that guy.

 

Leonard's not like any other guy Penny has ever dated, let alone met. Geniuses and nice guys like Leonard don't just drop from trees. I think a lot of instances, even from the very 2nd episode (chattering at Raj and saying "just because my ex is a jerk doesn't mean Leonard and Sheldon are, right?) is about Penny adjusting to how different her relationship with Leonard is than any other she's had in her life, and trying to "relearn" her expectations and emotional responses from all of the "losers" (as her Dad calls them) she's dated in her past.

 

I know it's ironic that Penny has worn her heart on her sleeve for loser after loser while she's struggled back and forth in her relationship with Leonard, but I think it just boils down to the fact he's so different from any other guy she's ever been with.

 

 

You know, I've never given Kurt much thought because he has been out of the picture for so long. It was five (?) years ago we saw the last of him. I guess I wrote him off because I could not find him at all relatable. He was so obviously a jerk. But I kinda miss seeing that last idiot, Zack. He had an quality of nuttiness that almost let him fit in.

 

She did, or does, go to extremes.

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