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Leonard And Penny Shippers Thread (Possible Spoilers)


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You just had to like Zack in The Justice League Recombination.  He was pretty funny as Superman.  At least he wasn't a creep like Kurt.

I always liked Zack. That Penny chose him to date right after Leonard showed that at least she was now looking for nice guys. Zack was actually pretty nerdy, in an uneducated way. He at least displayed some intellectual curiosity. From first meeting him, he was more interested in checking out the guy's laser experiment than going to a party with a hot girl. It was clear he was really interested. It must have seriously messed with Penny's head that even her dumb hot date thought that science was cooler than she was, for even a moment. Penny booty-calling Leonard was just the icing on the cake. Horny as she was, she couldn't even tolerate Zack relative to Leonard.

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They are SHAGGING (referring to sexual intercourse) and ON A STICKY WICKET (referring to a difficult situation). Both of these are, I believe, of British origin. Certainly the second one derives from the game of cricket which is a very English game.

 

I wonder if these phrases have entered the American idiom or just been thrown into the show by the

writers..

First off, thanks.

Sticky wicket has been in general use, in the US for a while. It's not a top ten idioms, but quite a few Americans will understand how it is used, even if they don't know where it comes from. Shag (or shagging) was popularized by the "Austin Power" series of movies. It brought it into America's consciousness. It can be used to sorta slide something by the censors as the word is not considered offensive as some others.

 

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It's not the ONLY logical explanation. Leonard was pushing her, something she didn't like at the time, again in 6.01. If she thinks she can do better, she would have broken up with him in 5.23. There's no reason to stay with him if she's upset with the proposal. Or, she is just unsure of her feelings, as she stated. Nor, is there any reason for her to be jealous of Alex in 6.03.

 

Ok , we certainly do not see eye-to-eye regarding that episode... ;)

 

This is what I felt like after seeing that episdoe regarding the penny-leonard love saga

 

SEASON 1 : PENNY HAS FEELINGS FOR LEONARD

SEASON 2 : PENNY HAS FEELINGS FOR LEONARD

SEASON 3 : PENNY HAS FEELINGS FOR LEONARD

SEASON 4 : PENNY HAS FEELINGS FOR LEONARD

SEASON 5 : PENNY HAS FEELINGS FOR LEONARD

And then in EPISODE 6.02 : Penny still does not know how she feels...... as a  normal audience I  would say ...Really?? still after 5+ years??....  ... enough of this boring repeatetive storylines please....... :p

 

that episode plot clearly was a subject for big drama...and choosing this as a story-line in a sitcom makes is worse because...they have to be humorous...thus failing to give good insight into characters making them look shallow...

 

And if this were real life ...the first question Bernie or Amy would ask Penny when she says that she is thinking of breaking up with Leonard again is.... 

"just tell us why were you so sad and upset when Leonard was with Priya? "

 

I can get why the writers did not go there... ;) ... 

 

Sure there are many amazing things that happened after that episode...but I thought there was no need to go that far........

 

And talking about character insight ... I really thought we were going to get few scenes where Penny discusses her relationship with Leonard after blurting out the ILY... but we got none :(

Edited by vasu
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Ah, Penny and commitment. The eternal dilemma !

 

In my opinion, Penny is not so much a commitmentphobe as she is a spontaneity/accident-phobe. What made her daydream turn nightmarish in The Recombination Hypothesis was not the wedding scene with Leonard itself but the shotgun element of it : "It's a little late for me to start saying no, isn't it ?". Furthermore, the first words that came out of her mouth after Leonard asked her out were "Have you thought it through ?". Quite an interesting reaction.

 

It seems to me that what Penny fears above all, in the context of her relationship with Leonard, is being cornered, put on the spot out of the blue  and having to react appropriately without the luxury of time and forethought. It is a testament to what her relationship with Leonard means to her that she is so cautious about it, considering she naturally tends to just go for things, without necessarily giving it much thought. 

The stakes with Leonard are very high because, on top of being her boyfriend, he is her best friend. While she was less than pleased when he got with Priya and definitely felt jealous of their couple, what truly took her down was Leonard telling her they could no longer be friends, as per Priya's request. That was the real beginning of the downwards spiral for her.

She was aware of that danger from the very start, back in The Tangerine Factor : "if things don't go well with Leonard, I risk losing a really good friend". So for a long while, she tried to have her cake and eat it too : be in a relationship with Leonard (because she was attracted to him) but keep it casual enough that if it were to fail, they could still be friends at the end of it. That, very demonstrably, failed. In a way, The Ornithophobia Diffusion was a useful wakeup call for her : she and Leonard do get along because they are romantically attracted to each other, not in spite or in parallel of it. They could never be "just"  friends. From then on, it has been all in or fold, no third option. 

 

That is a level of risk Penny is clearly unfamiliar with. Her other boyfriends were guys she did not really care about on a personal, intimate level : they looked nice, they sounded nice, they might have nice cars and that was about it. Aside from physical attraction, there was not much between her and them. So breaking up and leaving them behind, never to see them again, was not something she feared. Sure, she did lend Kurt money long after their breakup but I assume she would do that for pretty much anyone she knows. Back then she could not really stomach Howard yet, had he called her from a police station and asked her to bail him out, I am certain she would have. 

Was she ever truly in love with Kurt, or any other guy she dated aside from Leonard ? I am tempted to say no. In the pilot, she did say she was still in love with him yet, an episode and a half later, she was seen kissing another guy in the hallway. So, ten days after separating from a man she "loved", she was happy with somebody else... Rebound ? Maybe. Sign that she was not as heartbroken as she thought she was ? More plausible.

 

I know serial loser/jerk-dating is usually associated with self-esteem issues but, in Penny's case, I really believe it stemmed from the same root as all her other problems : laziness. She does not like to work !

It was quite simply much easier to date morons she did not actually love than really interesting guys she could genuinely fall for : the gratification was instantaneous, the pleasure intense and the eventual pain/disappointment very short-lived. No effort to make, no long-term commitment required. The moment it gets fishy, pack your things and go. Easy-peasy !

 

Leonard is a different animal altogether and she is still learning to adjust. So, while it she might not apear to be doing much, I think she has really been putting an uncharacteristic amount of effort into it, as Tensor pointed out. It may not look very spectacular but she has been trying (and growing up) : controlling her fight-or-flight impulses, overcoming her natural escapism, learning to listen, etc.

It may be a tad unfair to compare her endeavours with Leonard's because they are coming from two very different places : he has been absolutely sure of his feelings for her since day one so his decisiveness and relentlessness have been entirely warranted. Penny, on the other hand, started off appreciating Leonard as a great friend, very gradually grew to love him and eventually accepted her feelings for him.

I believe she finally came to terms with her love for Leonard in The Holographic Excitation : that, to me, was the real beginning of their new relationship in a way. Since then, Penny's behaviour towards Leonard has been pretty good and her attitude in the context of their relationship has steadily improved, in spite of the occasional setback. 

 

There is no doubt in my mind Penny wants to marry Leonard. I believe even she knows it. But she needs more time to get herself sorted before she can make that decision. She will propose, no question about that. It will be a clumsy, a bit wonky and a not quite perfect proposal but it will happen. 

In the meantime, they are as good as married anyway. 

 

(Overly long post again. Bad Chiara, bad !)

Edited by Chiara
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In a nutshell, Penny is growing up. She has developed the wisdom to accept a less-traveled path, and stay with the good guy, and the good friends. She has to work at it, but she now knows that the work pays off in deeply satisfying ways. She has a wide net of emotional bonds, and a guy who worked to get her for six years, and know her well enough to let her decide when they get married. Leonard did say if she decides to get married, but Penny's actions since then say she's thinking when they get married.

Lets not forget that Penny's notorious for not working, or working as little as possible. Think of unkempt apartment, her "I'm cute, I get by" type of comments. That she is actually working at, not just putting effort into her relationship, but also the rest of her life ( has anyone paid attention to the relative neatness of her apartment lately), are more indications that she is growing up and actually working at making changes in her life.

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Lets not forget that Penny's notorious for not working, or working as little as possible. Think of unkempt apartment, her "I'm cute, I get by" type of comments. That she is actually working at, not just putting effort into her relationship, but also the rest of her life ( has anyone paid attention to the relative neatness of her apartment lately), are more indications that she is growing up and actually working at making changes in her life.

Im watching. i see a vacuum cleaner in her future. It snuck into howadette's house and may migrate.

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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To me when Penny was talking about breaking up with Leonard what she was really saying was, "I'm bored. I've been in love before and there's always been drama. I don't know what to do with no drama."

 

That has been Penny's journey this season. Learning how to be in a relationship where she's not waiting on that proverbial 'other shoe' to drop. We've seen her learning this with the quiet moments of, "How was your day?", spaghetti dinners (just Leonard and Penny), helping Leonard with tenure, and just watching a TV show.....all small moment's that are adding up to a stable 'drama' free relationship.

Edited by keie
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To me when Penny was talking about breaking up with Leonard what she was really saying was, "I'm bored. I've been in love before and there's always been drama. I don't know what to do with no drama."

 

That has been Penny's journey this season. Learning how to be in a relationship where she's not waiting on that proverbial 'other shoe' to drop. We've seen her learning this with the quiet moments of, "How was your day?", spaghetti dinners (just Leonard and Penny), helping Leonard with tenure, and just watching a TV show.....all small moment's that are adding up to a stable 'drama' free relationship.

I believe you are right. I think another part is that her job is boring, so she expected a lot of excitement from her social life. The guys are excited about their work, and need to come home for downtime. Those small moments require a certain degree of maturity to appreciate, as you need some life experience to realize they are actually hard to come by. Leonard will do better work with stability at home, and Penny may find that true in her acting. As @chiara @Disgusted pointed out earlier, Penny now has an emotional castle to sally forth from, and slay dragons.

One thing I hope they do next season is show her running lines with Leonard for one of her plays. It would be really funny if it were "Taming of the Shrew".

Edited by hamerman55
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I believe you are right. I think another part is that her job is boring, so she expected a lot of excitement from her social life. The guys are excited about their work, and need to come home for downtime. Those small moments require a certain degree of maturity to appreciate, as you need some life experience to realize they are actually hard to come by. Leonard will do better work with stability at home, and Penny may find that true in her acting. As @chiara point out earlier, Penny now has an emotional castle to sally forth from, and slay dragons.

One thing I hope they do next season is show her running lines with Leonard for one of her plays. It would be really funny if it were "Taming of the Shrew".

 

Yeah Penny's been in that job too long. The writers claim they have humanised her, this season but to me, they have just taken the fire out of her. Made her apathetic. I hope she does more acting too.

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One thing I hope they do next season is show her running lines with Leonard for one of her plays. It would be really funny if it were "Taming of the Shrew".

For me, having roles in theatre, this would be a lot of fun to see.

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I was surprised they only renewed the show for a single season. In 2011, they were given three seasons. Any reason why CBS would be holding out? It seems like the writers would like an idea of how long of an arc they can work with. I sort of expected them to renew for two seasons.

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I was surprised they only renewed the show for a single season. In 2011, they were given three seasons. Any reason why CBS would be holding out? It seems like the writers would like an idea of how long of an arc they can work with. I sort of expected them to renew for two seasons.

Can you point out where you saw it was renewed for one season? The renewal for next season (season 7) was part of the 2011 three season renewal. In press releases and entertainment articles, it can appear as if season 7 was a one year renewal. Such as "CBS has renewed TBBT for next year" not also mentioning that it was renewed for next year in 2011. An additional one year renewal would be for the 2014-2015 season, season 8, and that normally wouldn't be announced until mid May or so. I think it's pretty much expected to be renewed for a minimum of two seasons. Seasons 8 and 9 (2014-2015 and 2015-2016.

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Lionne got me thinking about Penny's past. I had blocked or dismissed Kurt because from my point of view Leonard is obviously the better choice.

Then i wondered how Penny came to think Kurt was ever a viable option and that made me consider that perhaps her commitment issues relate to self image or identity. How do you reconcile wanting Kurt with wanting Leonard. Penny is no longer that person.

So her epiphany might not only relate to her recognition of Leonard and her friends as something to be passionate about but also her acceptance of herself, her situation and her evolution from wannabee actress to responsible adult.

She doesn't have to drop any aspirations, but she can let go any regrets.

This is of a piece with the other baggage drops foreshadowed in the spoiler reports and clears the decks for a refreshed s7.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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Yeah Penny's been in that job too long. The writers claim they have humanised her, this season but to me, they have just taken the fire out of her. Made her apathetic. I hope she does more acting too.

hi Moonbase,

where does one get the lowdown on the writers? Is there a repository or does one have to trawl? I see pop pieces about the show but nowt serious about the writing.

Cheers

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If you go to the main page (not the forums) and look up the episodes the writers are listed there for each episode, also once you know the writers they are all listed on Imdb.com with varying bits of info :)

Edited by rachygd
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Can you point out where you saw it was renewed for one season? The renewal for next season (season 7) was part of the 2011 three season renewal. In press releases and entertainment articles, it can appear as if season 7 was a one year renewal. Such as "CBS has renewed TBBT for next year" not also mentioning that it was renewed for next year in 2011. An additional one year renewal would be for the 2014-2015 season, season 8, and that normally wouldn't be announced until mid May or so. I think it's pretty much expected to be renewed for a minimum of two seasons. Seasons 8 and 9 (2014-2015 and 2015-2016.

I hadn't thought about this being of the original three year renewal. I saw it "announced" as a renewal for the 2013-14 season on CBS and TVbythenumbers. The latter site was interesting in that its renew or cancel index was over a 2. Anything over a one is regarded as a sure bet for renewal. I don't recall any other show with an index as high as a 2. I didn't actually look at CBS. The Google search showed that they were renewed for next season. I'll look more closely.

I looked at CBS, and the page on TBBT were remarkably uninformative. Just clips and full episodes. I didn't see any statements about renewals, but the site was also full of ads that crashed my iPad.

Edited by hamerman55

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OK, here goes, and I hope I'm not the target of tomato-throwing for suggesting this ending for the Leonard and Penny story - they marry, have a couple kids and Penny finds her sweet spot as a stay at home mom while Leonard brings home the money as his career takes off.  I know this doesn't include Penny's acting career on the upward trajectory, but so far we haven't seen any career path that excites her (even acting, from what I see).  Now she professes that she's passionate about Leonard and his/her friends.  She's shown her maternal side already, especially with Sheldon (she sure knows the Kitty song), and her street-wise nature (which Leonard doesn't have) would ensure that the kids would grow up safe and self-sufficient as adults.  

 

I don't know that Penny has ever expressed her desire to have kids someday, but she seems to care about people and I'm not getting the sense that she's really that committed to becoming an actor (other than the superficial reason of being rich and famous).  Staying home to handle the kids is not for everybody, but it's still a valid vocational choice (which also does not preclude her from re-entering the job world down the road).  It seems Howard and Bernadette have already agreed that Howard will assume the stay at home parent role if they have kids (she makes more than he does).

 

OK, ready, aim, fire with those tomatoes.

I agree.  I will save my tomatoes for my salads.

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Did anyone notice hat the group was remarkably unhelpful in setting Leonard up with anyone during the interregenum between The Wheaton Recurrance and The Beta Test Initiation? The girl Bernie set him up with was remarkably inappropriate, and basically everyone hated Priya. Amy admired her in theory, but mainly to remind and school Penny on what she lost.

It also seems that the main event at girls' night out was Priya-bashing, yet when she moved away, everyone sort of stepped back and waited for Leonard to do something. One would have thought that one of the girls would have suggested that Penny at least start flirting with him. Given Penny's statement in The Boyfriend Complexity, wouldn't she have expected Leonard to come running if she even hinted at getting back together? Amy is certainly forthright enough to suggest something, probably something primate related, but still effective. Given that Amy pointed out that Penny was supposed to be sad when Leonard hooked up with Priya, and that she should be jealous of Alex, it seems that Amy has been Penny's teacher in regard to matters of the heart. How weird is that? Generally, Amy called the responses for the girls throughout the Priya arc spot on. Given that Amy would like to hang with Penny as much as possible, being BFFs, it just seems weird that good old unfiltered Amy didn't suggest to Penny that she put on one of her skimpy Season 1 outfits and go Leonard-fishing. Instead, Leonard has to do all the heavy lifting to restart the relationship.

Given how extraordinarily unhappy Penny was without Leonard, I'd have thought that she or one of the girls would have said something. Just as an earlier poster suggested that the obvious comeback during episode 6.02 from the girls should have been "and remind us why you were so unhappy and depressed when Leonard was dating Priya?" when Penny said she was going to break up with Leonard. We've discussed this episode at length, and it still sticks out as momentary insanity by the writers. Could someone remind me again why thus episode seemed like a good idea? To me, the more likely thing would be some of what I've suggested. Yes, Leonard was leaning on her a bit to discuss where they were headed, but if the writers are going to do something this subtle, then more exposition is needed. In fact, the 6.01 episode pretty hamhandedly cast Leonard in the "female" role, and it took a drunk Raj to call her on her crap. Yet, he gets tossed out of the apartment, likely by Penny, when he insists that she tell Leonard she loves him. Then in the next episode she's ready to dump him? The writers better have a very serious episode coming up real soon to explain Penny's commitment issue, that she would be so afraid of letting Leonard know she loved him that she would shut down completely in 6.01 then actually start to break up with him, in spite of how unhappy she was for over two years without him. Because she has commitment issues? Them's some serious issues of some sort that she would prefer to go back to how unhappy she was before, and surely lose Leonard as a friend, rather than do the easy thing and stay with him. And it is crazy that the girls wouldn't have been all over her about the very idea that she was unhappy with Leonard. They listen to her whine for two years, then stand back while she contemplates and the plans to commit personal and social suicide? It just doesn't scan. It seems like the season only started making sense when Alex shows up.

Edited by hamerman55

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I think the reason Penny didn't go after Leonard, when he broke up with Priya, was because the show was always about him trying to get Penny and they were sticking to that plot. The writers were too invested in the Leonard chasing Penny storyline, to switch to a Penny chasing Leonard storyline. However the way they have done season 6, I think it is now possible to do some role reversal work, on these two characters in season 7.

I am also beginning to believe that episode 6.02 was now just a reset or reboot episode for Penny.

I think the reason no one offered to set Leonard up with other girls was because everyone thought he should be with Penny. Bernadette has always been a Lenny shipper, so her bringing that wacky friend to a blind date with Leonard may have been on purpose because she knew she wasn't Leonard's type.

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I believe you are right. I think another part is that her job is boring, so she expected a lot of excitement from her social life. The guys are excited about their work, and need to come home for downtime. Those small moments require a certain degree of maturity to appreciate, as you need some life experience to realize they are actually hard to come by. Leonard will do better work with stability at home, and Penny may find that true in her acting. As @chiara point out earlier, Penny now has an emotional castle to sally forth from, and slay dragons.

 

 

 

Check your sources.  :fi_lone_ranger:

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Did anyone notice hat the group was remarkably unhelpful in setting Leonard up with anyone during the interregenum between The Wheaton Recurrance and The Beta Test Initiation? The girl Bernie set him up with was remarkably inappropriate, and basically everyone hated Priya. Amy admired her in theory, but mainly to remind and school Penny on what she lost.

Well, to be fair, it wasn't until the middle of the fourth season that the girls were close enough to Penny to fully realized that Penny hadn't gotten over Leonard. Leonard himself had hints, but didn't act on them.

 

It also seems that the main event at girls' night out was Priya-bashing, yet when she moved away, everyone sort of stepped back and waited for Leonard to do something. One would have thought that one of the girls would have suggested that Penny at least start flirting with him. Given Penny's statement in The Boyfriend Complexity, wouldn't she have expected Leonard to come running if she even hinted at getting back together?

Well, given that Leonard was still dating Priya until after episode 7 (The Good Guy Fluctuation) and Leonard declared himself single the next week ( 5.08 The Isolation Permutation) and they had their disastrous "date as friends" in 6.09 ("The Ornithophobia Diffusion"), taking only three more episodes before Leonard asked her out and they got back together doesn't seem all that remarkable. Still, after the above, it is rather strange that the girls didn't say anything to Howard and Sheldon about Penny's actions or even going directly to Leonard (Bernie more than Amy for this one).

 

Amy is certainly forthright enough to suggest something, probably something primate related, but still effective. Given that Amy pointed out that Penny was supposed to be sad when Leonard hooked up with Priya, and that she should be jealous of Alex, it seems that Amy has been Penny's teacher in regard to matters of the heart.

I'm not sure it's so much matters of the heart as the expected instinctive reaction based on Amy understanding of the brain.

 

How weird is that? Generally, Amy called the responses for the girls throughout the Priya arc spot on. Given that Amy would like to hang with Penny as much as possible, being BFFs, it just seems weird that good old unfiltered Amy didn't suggest to Penny that she put on one of her skimpy Season 1 outfits and go Leonard-fishing. Instead, Leonard has to do all the heavy lifting to restart the relationship.

Two things, while Leonard fishing may have worked, it would have taken Leonard to break up with Priya before he would have been caught by Penny. Leonard is not one to cheat on his SO. The second, and I've got nothing but speculation on this one, they both may have been waiting for the other to make the first move, considering the break-up, the thing with Raj, and their disastrous "date".

I'm not saying you're wrong in any of your analysis, it's probably a combination of some of your speculation and mine, along with speculations by quite a few others. The problem, as I've said is we get a five to six minute window into the week of the characters, which isn't really enough to determine exactly the motivation, unless the character specifically states something. Which means it is very open to interpretation.

 

Given how extraordinarily unhappy Penny was without Leonard, I'd have thought that she or one of the girls would have said something. Just as an earlier poster suggested that the obvious comeback during episode 6.02 from the girls should have been "and remind us why you were so unhappy and depressed when Leonard was dating Priya?" when Penny said she was going to break up with Leonard. We've discussed this episode at length, and it still sticks out as momentary insanity by the writers. Could someone remind me again why thus episode seemed like a good idea? To me, the more likely thing would be some of what I've suggested. Yes, Leonard was leaning on her a bit to discuss where they were headed, but if the writers are going to do something this subtle, then more exposition is needed. In fact, the 6.01 episode pretty hamhandedly cast Leonard in the "female" role, and it took a drunk Raj to call her on her crap. Yet, he gets tossed out of the apartment, likely by Penny, when hhe insists that she tell Leonard she loves him. Then in the next episode she's ready to dump him? The writers better have a very serious episode coming up real soon to explain Penny's commitment isue, that she would be so afraid of letting Leonard know she loved him that she would shut down completely in 6.01 then actually start to break up with him, in spite of how unhappy she was for over two years without him. Because she has commitment issues? Them's some serrious issues of some sort that she would prefer to go back to how unhappy she was before, and surely lose Leonard as a friend, rather than do the easy thing and stay with him. And it is crazy that the girls wouldn't have been all over her about the very idea that she was unhappy with Leonard. They listen to her whine for two years, then stand back while she contemplates and the plans to commit personal and social suicide? It just doesn't scan. It seems like the season only started making sense when Alex shows up.

You've got all of this spot on, in my opinion. The only thing I have been able to come up with for 6.1 and 6.2 is that they were trying to completely break down Penny before starting in on her redemption.

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