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Leonard And Penny Shippers Thread (Possible Spoilers)


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re the moral arguments, just helicoptering up from the detail to say i enjoy that they play in some grey areas. Its one of the 'hooks' of the show and drives engagement with it. if they didnt add this spice and tone then the show would be less attractive and more of a clown parade.

And i would have been more curious about the piercings than Leonard, ceterus paribus. :)

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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You could say the same thing about Martha (Sheldon's 'date' in 3-12 the Psychic Vortex) She was all the things you said about Alice,

 

Martha: Is that the limited edition Green Lantern lantern?

Sheldon: In brightest day, in darkest night, no evil shall escape my sight.

Martha: Oh, that is so awesome.

 

she could talk to Sheldon about 'Flatland',

 

Martha: Flatland is more than just a mathematical essay. It is also a treatise on Victorian social mores.

Sheldon: You know, I had never considered that. Wow, that’s going to completely change my visits there.

 

and she was 'interested' in Sheldon on the second date.

 

Well, it’s late.

Martha: Uh-huh.

Sheldon: Time for bed.

Martha: Okay.

 

Scene: Outside Sheldon’s bedroom.

Martha: Sheldon?

Sheldon: Yes?

Martha: Listen, they’re kind of getting busy in the living room, and I was wondering if I could hang out in here for a while.

 

Of course Sheldon missed the obvious opportunity. If not Sheldon she would have been a good match for any of the guys (if not for the fact that Sheldon was the only one available then) They could have brought her and her friend Abby back later when Leonard and Howard were unattached.

 

She probably would have been too tall for Leonard :p

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She probably would have been too tall for Leonard :p

Well, there was always Howard, at the time he wanted a tall girl.

Season 3 episode 5 The Creepy Candy Coating Corollary

 

Howard: And tall. I want our kids to be able to ride space mountain before they’re 20.

 

I think the reason Raj / Abby didn't continue is because Abby wanted a date for her friend, and Sheldon was a bust.

Edited by eirwinrommel

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Awww I didn't think so. I thought it was cute. That kind of stuff wasn't/isn't Penny's thing. It doesn't mean she's stupid. She did get 'excited' lol about the potato (I'm not making fun either, I really thought it was cute :) ) which was a big switch from..... earlier Penny, who would have fluffed it off and not cared one way or another. She was really interested!

 

Plus, I dug P. Proton, digging on the fact that a science guy was with such a cutie :)

It was cool that Penny seemed so, dare I say, passionate about the science. Sure some of her questions were dumb, but as a professor, I can say the hard part is getting people excited about science. Most people can't be bothered. It seemed to me that Penny was actually a bit on the nerdy side tonight, as she started off playing with a computer doing rocket launches by inputting coordinates, stuck right with Leonard and Sheldon with Professor Proton (which was good as she kept Prof. Proton interested) and asked questions. She may have sounded like Zack, but one of Zack's great qualities is that as dumb as he was, he was interested in trying to learn. It seems that Penny might be too, plus it was something important to Leonard. She's either working on the relationship, or actually interested, which amounts to the same thing. It remains to be seen how smart Penny really is, which we've debated, but she's curious. An excellent trait.
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It was cool that Penny seemed so, dare I say, passionate about the science. Sure some of her questions were dumb, but as a professor, I can say the hard part is getting people excited about science. Most people can't be bothered. It seemed to me that Penny was actually a bit on the nerdy side tonight, as she started off playing with a computer doing rocket launches by inputting coordinates, stuck right with Leonard and Sheldon with Professor Proton (which was good as she kept Prof. Proton interested) and asked questions. She may have sounded like Zack, but one of Zack's great qualities is that as dumb as he was, he was interested in trying to learn. It seems that Penny might be too, plus it was something important to Leonard. She's either working on the relationship, or actually interested, which amounts to the same thing. It remains to be seen how smart Penny really is, which we've debated, but she's curious. An excellent trait.

To me, the problem was not so much that Penny asked "innocent" questions or did not understand how things worked. That is perfectly fine : we know she is basically scientifically illiterate so her child-like enthusiasm was actully a plus in my eyes. It showed she was, as you said, curious and eager to learn. She now sees science as this awesome magic trick she wants to know the secret of !

 

However, the "what do you two talk about ?" line was a jab and an unfair one at that.

Comparing Penny's response in this episode to Zack's excitement in The Lunar Excitation is a good point : when Zack was being mocked by the Geek Squad for his ignorance, somebody (aka Penny) defended him. When Penny's intellectual relevance was being challenged by Pr Proton, nobody (yes, Leonard, I am looking at you) reacted. I am not saying he should have been incredibly offended (it would have been over-the-top) but a little response would have been welcome, something like "anything but science" or "not that"...

We know Penny and Leonard talk. They do so all the time. If anything, the talking is the big difference between Lenny 1.0 and Lenny 2.0 : back in season 3, the only real intimacy they could manage was in the bedroom. Nowadays, they can have meaningful conversations with their clothes on. Just a week ago, they talked about their respective passions and Penny declared herself to Leonard. If that is not talking, I do not know what is !

This line was the writers' sacrificing continuity for the sake of a cheap joke. They did the same with Leonard's sexual prowess (we were given every indication that he was actually quite good in this area -and willing to Google if necessary- until Penny and Priya talked about his relative lameness in the bedroom). Go figure !

 

So my reaction to it is a bit mixed. I am delighted Penny was shown to be enthusiastic and curious about science. Great traits indeed and a nice follow-up to her visit to Leonard's lab in The Holographic Excitation and her fascination for her boyfriend's theories and experiments. I really liked that Leonard taught her how to use the rocket launcher and she immediately put her new knowledge to "good" use. I do not mind her scientific ignorance : that is in keeping with the show's canon. But the jab... Completely unnecessary. 

Edited by Chiara
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First off, sorry for the double post. Second off (?), sorry for rehashing old-ish conversations (again, I should not stay away for too long, those threads go fast !)
 

I hold Penny mostly blameless for sleeping with Raj. Raj was the bad guy there, as Penny was blackout drunk by the tme they went to the bedroom.

 Maybe I am reading way too much into this (wouldn't be the first time) but I do not quite see why anybody should be to blame. 
 
Penny and Raj were both sad for they both felt as if they had lost the most important person in their life (Howard for Raj; Leonard for Penny). 
They both drank willingly, without anybody forcing anybody.
We can assume Penny was drunker than Raj for he remembered more of the evening that her but there is no doubt he was quite plastered all the same. 
It would be unfair to say Raj sort of forced himself on a borderline unconscious Penny : she was clear-minded enough during the whole thing that she not only asked Raj if he had "protection" but also attempted to help him with it. To him, it would have looked like she was more than willing to pursue.
They were both single at the time so nobody got cheated on.
Raj did not owe it Leonard not to sleep with Penny : even if one agrees with the "bro' code", one has to admit Leonard was the first to invalidate it by sleeping with Priya. If one does not care for the aforementioned code (which is my case), one is bound to see both Priya and Penny as free, mature women who can have sexual intercourse with whichever consenting adult they wish, without any guy (may he be a relative or an ex) attempting to narrow down their options by scaring off or intimidating potential partners. [/end of my Germain Greer-inspired rant]
 
The Raj/Penny thing was the story of two sad, desperate, drunken people who (almost) made a stupid mistake. I understand the dismay it caused : it was shocking and out of the blue. However, I doubt this particular tale needs a villain. 
The real objective was to make Penny call herself a "skank" (this lovely use of a moralising and judgmental terminology being one of the writers' lowest points, in my opinion). Just another chapter of "Penny's penance". 
-------------
On a completely different note, I have no doubt Penny will make her move in the foreseeable future. She is now comfortable enough about her feelings that she does not have to be prompted by a crisis to disclose them. It will come. When ? The end of season 7 (or mid season 8) seems like a fair bet.
The only real (aka narrative) obstacle is Sheldon but the writers appear to have found a way to "separate" the Leodon (is that the correct term ?) : tenure. If anything can make Bert want to live apart from Bernie, it is it. Mr. Molaro said this storyline could go on for one or two season(s) so I would expect Penny's proposal to come around the time this finishes. 
 

Now Alice might have been a better match...not only for Leonard but any guy on the show(even Sheldon if she was also a genius).......
[...]
 
CUTE+NERDY+GOOD MORALS+GOOD SOCIAL SKILLS  =  The perfect mix.for these guys

 Alice was an improved version of Penny : she was cute, nice, friendly, flirty, accepting and convinced she was doomed to fall for jerks (she ran away from Leonard when she found out he had a girlfriend like Penny ran from David when she discovered he was married). The only difference was that she was already a comic book geek whereas Penny has to work at fitting into this particular world. 
In very much the same way, Kevin (the laptop guy in The Ornithophobia Diffusion) was an improved version of Leonard : funny, kind, roommate-hating, spectacle-wearing and smart. But he was naturally sociable whereas Leonard has to work his cute tushy off when it comes to meeting people. 
Writers, not just the TBBT ones, love planting these doppelgängers : they are a nice, cheap way to remind the audience of where a character's real affections stand. They are cute but doomed never to be anything but plot props.

Edited by Chiara
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They really are taking chucks out of Penny this season. This last episode had brilliant Sheldon/Leonard/Proton scenes but they are playing the stupid bimbo angle with her too strongly.

 

It makes her relationship with Leonard look very shallow. The writers couldn't even have her like Buffy and give them one thing in common. These two are making less and less sense lately, it's similar to what was happening in season 5.

Edited by Moonbase
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 Maybe I am reading way too much into this (wouldn't be the first time) but I do not quite see why anybody should be to blame. 

 

Penny and Raj were both sad for they both felt as if they had lost the most important person in their life (Howard for Raj; Leonard for Penny). 

They both drank willingly, without anybody forcing anybody.

We can assume Penny was drunker that Raj for he remembered more of the evening that her but there is no doubt he was quite plastered all the same. 

It would be unfair to say Raj sort of forced himself on a borderline unconscious Penny : she was clear-minded enough during the whole thing that she not only asked Raj if he had "protection" but also attempted to help him with it. To him, it would have looked like she was more than willing to pursue.

They were both single at the time so nobody got cheated on.

Raj did not owe it Leonard not to sleep with Penny : even if one agrees with the "bro' code", one has to admit Leonard was the first to invalidate it by sleeping with Priya. If one does not care for the aforementioned code (which is my case), one is bound to see both Priya and Penny as free, mature women who can have sexual intercourse with whichever consenting adult they wish, without any guy (may he be a relative or an ex) attempting to narrow down their options by scaring off or intimidating potential partners. 

 

-------------

 

You are very convincing. I have been swayed.

 

Now, off to pick up some drunk chicks.  "I do not quite see why anybody should be to blame" for what might happen. 

 

Dare I say they're asking for it?

 

 

(maybe I should just delete that last line, or the entire post)

:icon_rolleyes:

 

 

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I wonder if the writers were giving us a little more changed Penny this episode. Penny was acting a little geeky this episode, she was so into playing with that computer rocket launcher, which seems to me that she is now starting to get into some of their toys. So now she likes some of their video games, she is a little interested in comic books and now she is playing with some of their toys, Penny is definitely changing some.

I was thinking more about the " what do you two talk about remark" and really Leonard did act a little embarrassed when it was said, sort of he really didn't know what to say, because his childhood hero said it. Leonard seemed just as excited as Sheldon about him, but he acted more like an adult about it, instead of Sheldon's child like innocence. So Leonard's awe of Dr Proton may have hindered him defending Penny.

Also, I vote for no babies. The girls can get pregnant in the last season and Penny can have Leonard's smart and beautiful baby, but only in the last couple of episodes. The show is too short now to give time to babies.

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Maybe I am reading way too much into this (wouldn't be the first time) but I do not quite see why anybody should be to blame. 

 

Penny and Raj were both sad for they both felt as if they had lost the most important person in their life (Howard for Raj; Leonard for Penny). 

They both drank willingly, without anybody forcing anybody.

We can assume Penny was drunker that Raj for he remembered more of the evening that her but there is no doubt he was quite plastered all the same. 

It would be unfair to say Raj sort of forced himself on a borderline unconscious Penny : she was clear-minded enough during the whole thing that she not only asked Raj if he had "protection" but also attempted to help him with it. To him, it would have looked like she was more than willing to pursue.

They were both single at the time so nobody got cheated on.

Raj did not owe it Leonard not to sleep with Penny : even if one agrees with the "bro' code", one has to admit Leonard was the first to invalidate it by sleeping with Priya. If one does not care for the aforementioned code (which is my case), one is bound to see both Priya and Penny as free, mature women who can have sexual intercourse with whichever consenting adult they wish, without any guy (may he be a relative or an ex) attempting to narrow down their options by scaring off or intimidating potential partners.

-------------

 

You are very convincing. I have been swayed.

 

Now, off to pick up some drunk chicks.  "I do not quite see why anybody should be to blame" for what might happen. 

 

Dare I say they're asking for it?

(maybe I should just delete that last line, or the entire post)

:icon_rolleyes:

Feel free to do as you wish though I do not see why you would feel the need to erase this post.

As I mentioned before, I had deleted the previous version of this post (the phantom bit of post related to the Raj/Penny/Leonard situation) because it was a response to a conversation that had died out quite some time before I posted so, as I wrote at the time, I chose to wait for the topic to come back and post my opinions on the matter then. 

 

As for trying to make me sound like a rape apologist, well...  I suppose the right euphemism would be for me to say that I fail to appreciate it. 

I can only repeat my previous points : both Penny and Raj were drunk. Was one of them more drunk than the other ? A posteriori, it looks like it considering Raj recalled more of the evening than Penny. Was there any way for him to know that she was more inebriated than him ? Given that her level of lucidity and willingness at the time (conscious enough to kiss, to go to Leonard's bedroom, to ask whether Raj had "protection", to try to help him with it) seemed to match his own, I highly doubt it. Was there any way for him to know she would "black out" ? Again, I doubt it. 

 

If we consider Raj took advantage of Penny on that fateful night, we have to say the same of Leonard in The Lunar Excitation : in both cases, Penny was visibly drunk when she made her moves, did not remember much (if anything at all) of the night  the following day and bitterly regretted her nocturn activities after she woke up. 

 

Yet, neither of these instances appears to match the Steubenville scenario (I do apologise for bringing such a tragedy up but unfortunately, it seems fitting). The reason why the young men from Steubenville went to prison is not that they got drunk and had sex with an inebriated young woman who said "yes" on the night and regretted doing so the next day. 

The reason was that they abused somebody who was visibly unconscious, thereby incapable of consenting (or dissenting). They could see she was unable to move or talk, they could see she was passed out, they could see she was completey and utterly vulnerable and there is no way in hell they could have honestly mistaken that for sincere, freely given consent. 

 

Equating the two is, in my opinion, intellectually dishonest. 

Edited by Chiara
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I think the biggest problem with this episode was it was written around Bob Newhart. Not that it was a bad thing entirely, but having been a fan of his for a long time, I don't ever recall where someone would fire back a defense when he dropped a line like "what do you two talk about". i sensed a lot of open air for Bob to drop his patented, and funny, dry wit. It was also in keeping with the awe that Leonard and Sheldon have for him. This was the man that inspired them to go into physics, and they are not naturally combative. They've just met the man, so while Leonard should have defended Penny, he's not naturally wired to jump into a fight. The line just smacked of classic Bob Newhart. A comeback would not have fit the style he normally uses. His typical humor is to set up a scene where he drops these lines into dead silence, while audience collapses with laughter. Likely the problem was that the writers were trying to write Bob Newhart humor, and Lorre's people often have an edge that needs softening by the bigger picture. They wanted to maximize Bob's time. It was entirely weird that Amy wasn't involved, for example. She should have been all over the man who inspired Sheldon. Instead, I don't remember her name even being mentioned. @sram brought up many of these points as well. I wanted to add my perspective as an old Bob Newhart fan.

From what I recall of the discussion between Penny and Priya about Leonard's sexual prowess, their conclusion was that he was quite satisfactory, and even Leonard wasn't worried "I'm the king of foreplay". The only negative thing said was it was a very bad thing to fall asleep during the foreplay. Quite frankly, if my girlfriend did that she'd be wearing a bucket of ice water in a few minutes.

@chiara, you are entirely right that the intimacy now is in the discussions of Leonard and Penny. They talk about serious stuff too. It is all about quiet intimacy too - cooking together, sharing TV shows, simply enjoying each other's company. Although it would be nice to see them in the bed after a spirited lovemaking session. The discussions then would be interesting, but we've only seen that in "The Recombination Hypothesis" where Leonard imagined it. I always have to remind myself that most of the episode was in Leonard's mind, so the characters were written from his thoughts..

Edited by hamerman55
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The line "what do you talk about?" has been used before.

"What do you talk about after the coitus"  - Sheldon

 

But you do have to ask yourself what do Leonard and Penny talk about? Where's their connection?

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The scene with Sheldon bugging Leonard in bed would have really cute if Penny was there too. I could just see Leonard excusing himself to smack Sheldon, then Penny asking him incredulously " did you smack Sheldon!" and him shyly saying yes. Penny would then say "Good, that's a good boyfriend" pull the covers over herself and him, then go back to sleep. She should have definitely been there with him.

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The line "what do you talk about?" has been used before.

"What do you talk about after the coitus"  - Sheldon

 

But you do have to ask yourself what do Leonard and Penny talk about? Where's their connection?

 

Leonard has a small circle, just 3 close friends, and Penny. I imagine Leonard gets all the science talk he can take and more from Sheldon and the others. Penny is a welcome contrast. He probably listens more than talks with her, because talking gets him into trouble. How do you explain that to Prof Proton?

Edited by Disgusted
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The scene with Sheldon bugging Leonard in bed would have really cute if Penny was there too. I could just see Leonard excusing himself to smack Sheldon, then Penny asking him incredulously " did you smack Sheldon!" and him shyly saying yes. Penny would then say "Good, that's a good boyfriend" pull the covers over herself and him, then go back to sleep. She should have definitely been there with him.

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@SRAM and hamerman55
I suppose these two explanations combined do account for Leonard's lack of reaction at Pr Proton's jab. It makes sense. I still do not quite like it, but it does make sense. 
 

Also, I vote for no babies. The girls can get pregnant in the last season and Penny can have Leonard's smart and beautiful baby, but only in the last couple of episodes. The show is too short now to give time to babies.

I do not know. I am still a bit of a sucker for seeing those mythical "smart and beautiful" babies. If the wedding takes place quite late in the run of the show (and, let's face it, it probably will), the writers can kill two birds with one stone. 
 
I know Penny loathes the idea of a shortgun wedding (cf. her daynightmare in The Recombination Hypothesis) but what truly frightens her about the idea is that the pregnancy would trigger the wedding. What if they decide to get married and shortly before the wedding takes place, Penny finds out she is pregnant ? Shotgun wedding, but not really. 
I would love to see Penny and Leonard's respective reactions to that. My bet is that she would be ultimately quite philosophical  ("can take the girl out of the trailer park but...") while Leonard would be both elated and terrified ! Fun for everyone !
 

But you do have to ask yourself what do Leonard and Penny talk about? Where's their connection?

Difference; I would say. They tried being in relationships with their "type" and failed miserably every time. They seem to like that they do not quite get each other : they are exotic to each other, like rare birds they have never seen before and try to figure out. 
Furthermore, their personality traits are mutually beneficial : with Penny, Leonard learns to relax, be less emotionally dependent, more assertive and sociable; with Leonard, Penny learns to value things other that appearances and finds her way through a more adult, intellectual world. 
 

From what I recall of the discussion between Penny and Priya about Leonard's sexual prowess, their conclusion was that he was quite satisfactory, and even Leonard wasn't worried "I'm the king of foreplay". The only negative thing said was it was a very bad thing to fall asleep during the foreplay.

Well, falling asleep during foreplay sort of indicates that it is not going that splendidly... And there also was Penny's line one of the first episodes of the sixth season : "He tries so hard". That was pretty damning. 
All in all, we know for a fact the writers will have no problem throwing canon under the bus if it stands between them and a joke. So I suppose we just have to live with it and learn to dismiss certain elements. 
 

Quite frankly, if my girlfriend did that she'd be wearing a bucket of ice water in a few minutes.

That is wrong. And it made me laugh. I am a bad person. 
 

The discussins then would be interesting, but we've only seen that in "The Recombination Hypothesis" where Leonard imagined it. I always have to remind myself that most of the episode was in Leonard's mind, so the characters were written from his thoughts.

Quite tellingly, in this episode, Leonard has Daydream Penny say "this is where everything goes wrong, when we talk". It was true of their first attemtp at a relationship. Now, when they talk, they improve it. Kuddos for progress and maturity.
 

That's the great thing about rationalization and situational ethics, we can both be right!

Fair enough. 

Edited by Chiara
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I think the biggest problem with this episode was it was written around Bob Newhart. Not that it was a bad thing entirely, but having been a fan of his for a long time, I don't ever recall where someone would fire back a defense when he dropped a line like "what do you two talk about". i sensed a lot of open air for Bob to drop his patented, and funny, dry wit. It was also in keeping with the awe that Leonard and Sheldon have for him. This was the man that inspired them to go into physics, and they are not naturally combative. They've just met the man, so while Leonard should have defended Penny, he's not naturally wired to jump into a fight. The line just smacked of classic Bob Newhart. A comeback would not have fit the style he normally uses. His typical humor is to set up a scene where he drops these lines into dead silence, while audience collapses with laughter. Likely the problem was that the writers were trying to write Bob Newhart humor, and Lorre's people often have an edge that needs softening by the bigger picture. They wanted to maximize Bob's time. It was entirely weird that Amy wasn't involved, for example. She should have been all over the man who inspired Sheldon. Instead, I don't remember her name even being mentioned.

 

I agree with you about Leonard not defending Penny. I disagree about the weirdness of no Amy. Her being there would have been overkill IMO. Professor Proton was Sheldon and Leonard's childhood idol. Penny worked in the scenes because as you mentioned Bob Newhart could drop his patented lines about her. That and Penny was like a typical kid that he was use to performing at parties for. She didn't how his tricks worked at was interested in what he was doing. I don't think his line about him lasting that long during his routine was about how she looked but her interest in what he was actually doing. Amy would have known all his tricks like Sheldon and Leonard and most likely would have not had the same interest in him as Sheldon and Leonard.

Edited by Chrismo
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I think the biggest problem with this episode was it was written around Bob Newhart. Not that it was a bad thing entirely, but having been a fan of his for a long time, I don't ever recall where someone would fire back a defense when he dropped a line like "what do you two talk about". i sensed a lot of open air for Bob to drop his patented, and funny, dry wit. It was also in keeping with the awe that Leonard and Sheldon have for him. This was the man that inspired them to go into physics, and they are not naturally combative. They've just met the man, so while Leonard should have defended Penny, he's not naturally wired to jump into a fight. The line just smacked of classic Bob Newhart. A comeback would not have fit the style he normally uses. His typical humor is to set up a scene where he drops these lines into dead silence, while audience collapses with laughter. Likely the problem was that the writers were trying to write Bob Newhart humor, and Lorre's people often have an edge that needs softening by the bigger picture. They wanted to maximize Bob's time. It was entirely weird that Amy wasn't involved, for example. She should have been all over the man who inspired Sheldon. Instead, I don't remember her name even being mentioned. @sram brought up many of these points as well. I wanted to add my perspective as an old Bob Newhart fan.

 

 

I agree with this... the lines he made about penny didn't bother me... it was all for the humor and I think it flowed well.  There've been jokes about penny not being smart about science in the past, so nothing really new there to me.

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I agree with this... the lines he made about penny didn't bother me... it was all for the humor and I think it flowed well.  There've been jokes about penny not being smart about science in the past, so nothing really new there to me.

 

Plugging a potato into his pacemaker? That was a line worthy of Zack. I mean Penny's not educated but she's not that much of an ignoramus.

 

 

Leonard has a small circle, just 3 close friends, and Penny. I imagine Leonard gets all the science talk he can take and more from Sheldon and the others. Penny is a welcome contrast. He probably listens more than talks with her, because talking gets him into trouble. How do you explain that to Prof Proton?

 

Not science talk I mean anything. Where's their connection? Why would these two marry?

Edited by Moonbase

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Not science talk I mean anything. Where's their connection? Why would these two marry?

 

"You complete me"  is kind of trite, but the shoe fits.

Leonard is looking for affection that he didn't get from his mother.

Penny's locus of identity is totally external to her.

Leonard needs someone with a affectionate, forgiving heart.

Penny needs someone who believes in her. 

 

I'm surprised its taking so long.

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Disgusted,

 

I think I sort of know the answer, but are we going to have to wait 3-4 more seasons to see what ultimately happens between Penny and Leonard?  It seems like a bit of dilemma for the writers - creating a hit show with great characters that the audience, I think it's fair to say, have come to love, esp. L&P.  I am sure there is some worry that "closing the deal" for L&P will leave the show without some its necessary situation comedy (and drama).  On the other hand, how long can they stretch this relationship dance out before resolving it?  If we don't get the answer until the 2nd half of Season 10 (which it seems is a possible series length), we are talking about Spring 2017.  Will the audience, esp. us L&P "shippers", be that patient (of course we don't yet know how this will turn out for them either)?

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@Chiara, Back to Raj. I knew it wasn't the Ducati comment :) I don't think Raj broke laws or breached obligations. But on the whole, from observations of his behaviour over the past 6 seasons, I just think he's a selfish jerk, looking after himself. Howard, even though there was some self interest in "taking a peanut",' was to a greater degree looking out for his friend.

So the pair contrasts. Howard appeared to be a jerk but wasn't really. Raj presents nicely but is a jerk was my point.

That one instance of this was that he acted selfishly about getting his leg over was nicely provocative. I like that adult behaviours get depicted and resolved sensibly on the "idiot box". The characters worked out a resolution and everyone still speaks to each other. Yay.

AND

wrt the "what do you talk about". Leonard the eight year old could say nothing back to Prof Proton. Because he's eight, here.

And, it was an old white male speaking. So just stop there.

But I get confused in the game of character vs writers so I don't always know who to blame. Maybe I should take a class.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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