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Leonard And Penny Shippers Thread (Possible Spoilers)

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But I get confused in the game of character vs writers so I don't always know who to blame. Maybe I should take a class.

You do great, along with quite a few others here, even if there is some disagreement. There simply isn't enough continuity, nor do we see enough of the characters to determine exactly what is going on. Unless, of course, we get a direct statement. And even then, there may be a conflict with other evidence( think of Penny's "...he really tries).

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Plugging a potato into his pacemaker? That was a line worthy of Zack. I mean Penny's not educated but she's not that much of an ignoramus.

Not science talk I mean anything. Where's their connection? Why would these two marry?

Seriously, I think the physical attraction, which appears to be mutual, is very important. For apparently many in this world, needs lower down the hierarchy than intellectual discussion, are critical for successful long term pairing. That's just fundamental to many chordate lifeforms (hyperbole alert).

Then, they get on. They can have comfortable moments. That's worth a lot.

On top of that she genuinely has the brains to be interested in what he has to say, and he has the ability, rare in many, to be a good communicator and say stuff that in a way that she can understand it. She gives him the same back. So there is respect.

With 7 billion participants there may be a chance it occurs in nature.

Or, Moonbase, there is an <icon:rhetorical> missing in your post :) ): :). Cos I just realised to whom I'm writing (face palm) and how long you have loved/ been tortured by this show. :):). :) lol.

Eta is there an <icon:rhetorical> ? I don't know.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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You do great, along with quite a few others here, even if there is some disagreement. There simply isn't enough continuity, nor do we see enough of the characters to determine exactly what is going on. Unless, of course, we get a direct statement. And even then, there may be a conflict with other evidence( think of Penny's "...he really tries).

I have a rationalisation for that. It was her limbic system warding off a rival. She was driving so she couldn't karate chop Amy in the neck. Lol.

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The scene with Sheldon bugging Leonard in bed would have really cute if Penny was there too. I could just see Leonard excusing himself to smack Sheldon, then Penny asking him incredulously " did you smack Sheldon!" and him shyly saying yes. Penny would then say "Good, that's a good boyfriend" pull the covers over herself and him, then go back to sleep. She should have definitely been there with him.

I remember thinking it odd that Leonard was sleeping alone, too. Your scene would have been much funnier and contributed to the Leonard/Penny relationship. Is there some reason they aren't showing hem in bed together? The last time was in "the Recombination Hypothesis" and that happened twice, but in Leonard's mind. I can see where they are making the point of the new intimacy we've been discussing, but this would have been a natural place to have them together. Are they starting to set up Leonard moving out? He seems to be chafing more at Sheldon's quirks this season. Is it possible that the writers are avoiding it it with the increase in popularity of the show? Showing an unmarried couple at the center of a show could turn off a small portion of the new more casual audience. Of course if they saw the reruns from earlier, there was plenty of that in the first part of season three.

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They are in bed together in 6.06, The Extract Obliteration. Leonard then gets out to read Penny's paper. There are several other spots this year where they either head for bed or hint they where going or have been in bed. That said, I was also surprised Leonard was by himself last night.

Edited by Tensor
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I wondered about Leonard in bed alone too, but I am inclined to think that Penny is still protective of her own space.  Her journey toward totally sharing her life with Leonard (and I don't mean marriage...yet) is a long one, and she's not yet ready for having Leonard around all the time in her place.  Or, maybe she was out late with friends and Leonard just figured he'd sleep in his own bed.  Leonard and Sheldon situations for comedy need Leonard around.  Getting laughs will continue to trump what we might prefer in terms of the story.

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I remember thinking it odd that Leonard was sleeping alone, too. Your scene would have been much funnier and contributed to the Leonard/Penny relationship. Is there some reason they aren't showing hem in bed together? The last time was in "the Recombination Hypothesis" and that happened twice, but in Leonard's mind. I can see where they are making the point of the new intimacy we've been discussing, but this would have been a natural place to have them together. Are they starting to set up Leonard moving out? He seems to be chafing more at Sheldon's quirks this season. Is it possible that the writers are avoiding it it with the increase in popularity of the show? Showing an unmarried couple at the center of a show could turn off a small portion of the new more casual audience. Of course if they saw the reruns from earlier, there was plenty of that in the first part of season three.

 

I also thought that Leonard smacking Sheldon after getting out of bed with Penny would have been funnier, too. I think that a couple of things are at work here:

 

 - Leonard has most of his domestic moments with Penny at her apartment this season. As @Tensor mentioned, there has been only one bedroom scene (6.06) this season and Penny was sound asleep for that time. All other sexy time has been off-camera. Twice, as I recall, (6.02 and 6.12) it was suggested that they may have had sex in Leonard's bed.

 

 - Unlike L/P 1.0, there has been an emphasis on the fact they they talk to each other about their feelings, mainly Penny expressing her feelings like a dam has burst. TPTB seem to want to blunt the suggestion that their relationship is about sex and that they connect on no other level. This has been a big change in Penny as she has found ways to finally experience a deeper, quieter love.

 

There is definitely something about TBBT audience, as your suggest, that would encourage the writers to cool the sex scenes. For one thing its the time slot. Season 3's shows came on at 9:30 PM on the east and west coast after "Two and a half Men". The networks traditionally give more latitude for sex scenes after 9:00PM. Now, TBBT comes on at 8:00PM, what use to be called the family hour, though that's only a rough guideline now days as the moribund "Two and a Half Men" still demonstrates.

 

I still think the main reason sex has become more talked about than shown on TBBT is the general expectations of the audience of the show. The guys are not bed hopping men about town, they are suppose to be science nerds who were never very successful with women. They have shown them to be mainly fixating on one female and having their attentions reciprocated by that woman. Only Leonard has had multiple partners and that is only during those times when Penny throws him out of his orbit around her. When Penny says "heel", he is as faithful as a Shepard's dog.

 

I don't think that a large portion of TBBT fan base wants it any other way

Edited by BangerMain
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They are in bed together in 6.06, The Extract Obliteration. Leonard then gets out to read Penny's paper. There are several other spots this year where they either head for bed or hint they where going or have been in bed. That said, I was also surprised Leonard was by himself last night.

I forgot about that scene. I think partly because I don't care for that episode much. Leonard should think of Penny's school activities as the third rail of their relationship - touch and die. Nothing good ever seems to come from it.

Maybe the time change has a lot to do with the toning down of Penny's wardrobe, and the scenes of them actually in bed. It is frequently clear that they either just had sex or are going to, as you note. I guess I'm just reacting to the observation that Penny was not in bed with him when Sheldon wouldn't shut up. It just seemed odd, and missed making the scene even funnier.

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I don't really care about the writers suggesting sex when they are in bed.  The acting like bunnies in season 3 was OK, but in season 6, they are more adults, so them making out in bed is not needed.  I would even say, if Penny is in pajamas again, they should be full pajamas, like she wore once in a previous season episode.  But I still think their pillow talk is funny and them being in bed when Sheldon does something crazy is still good.  Penny's remarks  and expressions are great when Sheldon wakes them for something stupid.

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@sram, its like the buffy wake up call. They are making this a statement. Maybe it is to keep shots in the locker for later (s9, dreaming heavens, i hope not). Certainly they would have seen the funny too of the menage in 4a. Yet they did the potato pacemaker jumpstart gag and that got through QA.

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The time slot change as an explanation for the "tamer", less visibly sexual side of Leonard and Penny 2.0 is an excellent one. As Bangermain wrote, it is indeed entirely possible this change has had an impact on how explicit the writers think they can be with this sort of things.

Furthermore, there definitely appears to be a desire on their part to present the Lenny's new instalment as a mirror image of its prior incarnation : they used to talk only when in bed, now they talk outside of it; any meaningful discussion relative to their feelings used to signal the beginning of a crisis, now discussing their emotions is how they resolve their conflicts (or simply comfort each other); they used to walk on eggshells (sort of) around each other, now they can goof about.

 

I wonder if this desire to make Lenny 2.0 as different as possible from its 1.0 version may not have a rather crucial (intended) consequence in the long-ish run. Admittedly, it has been a while since I last watched episodes of the third season but wasn't Sheldon almost always around Leonard and Penny back then ? Most of their time together seemed to be spent at the guys' apartment with Shelly present, more often than not. The only instances in which they were sans chaperon was in the bedroom. For all means and purposes, theirs was a three-way relationship.

 

This season, Leonard and Penny are very much on their own. They spend an aweful lot of their shared time at Penny's place, away from Leonard's roommate. Or so it seems to me. Aside from the "symbolic" dimension of the change (Penny now lets Leonard in), it looks as if they, as a couple, are starting to separate themselves from Sheldon. Leonard himself is ever so slowly freeing himself from his friend's reign of terror (and will make one hell of a step in that direction in the finale).

 

Since, narratively speaking, Sheldon is the biggest hurdle to the development of Leonard and Penny's relationship, the fact the latters seem to be distancing themselves from him, in a way, could be a positive foresign.

Edited by Chiara
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I don't really care about the writers suggesting sex when they are in bed. The acting like bunnies in season 3 was OK, but in season 6, they are more adults, so them making out in bed is not needed. I would even say, if Penny is in pajamas again, they should be full pajamas, like she wore once in a previous season episode. But I still think their pillow talk is funny and them being in bed when Sheldon does something crazy is still good. Penny's remarks and expressions are great when Sheldon wakes them for something stupid.

The pillow talk is really what's missing, but maybe there really doing that over dinner now. In Season 3 their only alone time was in bed. That she was not there for the 2:00 AM discussion about Prof Proton seemed an obvious omission. Are they trying to tell us something? Probably not. They are calling back to other episode where Sheldon would pester Leonard through the wall. I would bet if they saw the cooments the writers would slap their foreheads and agree sram's version is funnier.

Edited by hamerman55
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Well, if they really plan to continue the show beyond 7 seasons, and based on ratings that's likely, the writers will have their hands full trying to balance the development and maturation of the characters with the need to keep the premise of the show, which has always made it funny.  I wonder about Howard and Bernadette - Howard's got a couple of "adult" credits to him now, with his trip to the ISS and his marriage.  He has grown up to an extent.  But a chunk of what was funny about him was living at home with his mother screaming off camera as he lies in his silk sheeted bed.  If Leonard and Penny continue to grow as a couple and gravitate away from Sheldon and Sheldon's apartment, it's going to change the basis of a lot of the show's humor.  Judging by all of the posts on this forum, there are lots of us who want to see the characters grow.  Of course, if that implies they are no longer as nerdy, then the writers risk losing the show's original identity.  As I said in an earlier posting, can they really drag out Penny and Leonard's relationship uncertainty (meaning will they or won't they marry?) until the end of the series?

 

I've mentioned the Seinfeld show before as a contrast in type.  While creating laughs and humor must be an ongoing challenge to any show, in Seinfeld they didn't have to worry about having the characters mature - those writers didn't have to worry about keeping the show close to its original premise because the characters never changed.

 

It will be interesting to watch what happens in TBBT.  Should be plenty of posts on the forum as we watch Season 7 unfold in September.

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One of the problems with Howard and Bernadette is that Bernadette is too normal and Howard loves her so much he will do almost anything for her.  An example is the 3D printer, he didn't ask before he bought it, then suffered her punishment because of it.  It sort of makes him look spineless, but he is really so in love with her, so he listens to her and accepts her way of doing things.  Now when Bernadette and the girls got interested in comic books, I remember everybody loved Bernadette and thought she was great, and the girls were awesome.  So if the show is to continue with the relationships getting stronger, and I want it to, the girls changing along with the guys and becoming more nerdy would be good for the show, I think.

 

I always thought the girls dressing up for one of the guys conventions would be a great episode and would be loved by the fans.  I thought a nice little plot would be a Star Wars convention in Las Vegas, where the promoters wanted as many people as possible to come in Storm Trooper uniforms so they could do a military type parade down Las Vegas Strip.  The guys would be all into it and get Storm Trooper costumes and the girls would think they are crazy, but they still want to come because it is Las Vega, but they are not wearing costumes or doing that crazy stuff.  They could then have a funny girls night out where they are having mixed emotions about how they never do anything the guys want to do and stuff.  The end could have Leonard coming out of his bedroom in is Storm Trooper outfit to his three friends, already dressed waiting for him.  He could ask if they are already to go and Penny takes off her helmet to say yes, followed by Bernadette and Amy taking off their helmets.

 

Anyway, I think since the girls are making the guys more normal can't the guys make the girls more nerdy.  You got to admit, Penny playing with that rocket launcher was pretty funny and the girls with comic books are great.  If they make the girls change a little more, I think the relationships would be better in the show and we could get more laughs.

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Anyway, I think since the girls are making the guys more normal can't the guys make the girls more nerdy.  You got to admit, Penny playing with that rocket launcher was pretty funny and the girls with comic books are great.  If they make the girls change a little more, I think the relationships would be better in the show and we could get more laughs.

 

Yeah I've often thought this. I don't know why they have no nerdy females anyway, they missed a good opportunity with Sheldon's girlfriend. A proper nerd girl would have been fun.

Edited by Moonbase
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Yeah I've often thought this. I don't know why they have no nerdy females anyway, they missed a good opportunity with Sheldon's girlfriend. A proper nerd girl would have been fun.

They are not entirely without options in a long run. Raj, Kripke or Stuart are available. But that makes for a crowded dance card. Not that anyone is leaving but they planted some auxiliary characters (I do take notes, Chiara) that could get bumped up and hooked up. Say they swing by a non-whacky Plimpton for Raj and Kripke to squabble over. And once Amy gets some sugar, maybe she can revert.

Eta: they added back d&d and it leads to consequences. Isn't that what you are asking for? I

wrt the little bit of paedophobia, it would be a shame if all those germlines were terminated, but how to keep the same funny is maybe vexing. I think they can run with the dog analogue for a while. Furry families are a real thing. And babysitting Sheldon still has legs.

And to get back on topic, Penny still wants to know stuff. She genuinely hoped for a potato based solution to the energy crisis and had an expectation that the answer was in basic science. Shame she didn't label it the carbon crisis, but I'm glad it got a mention.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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Yeah I've often thought this. I don't know why they have no nerdy females anyway, they missed a good opportunity with Sheldon's girlfriend. A proper nerd girl would have been fun.

 

They should have the girls getting at least a little bit more nerdy than they are now, after all their SO should have some influence on them. Instead the pull of the women to the "normal" side seems to be the most dominant effect.

 

TPTB have used Penny as the template for all the relationships for the guys. It got pronounced minutes before we first meet Bernadette in 3.05, "The Creepy Candy Coating Corollary":

 

Penny: I just told her you’re an aerospace engineer, you speak five languages…

Howard: Six if you count Klingon.

Leonard: Girls don’t count Klingon, Howard. Right?

Penny: Right.

 

Following Penny's lead, Bernadette and Amy have only excepted a certain amount of nerd and geek behavior in the guys but have just begun to explore this in themselves during season 6. Amy knows that Sheldon is not going to change rapidly but she can at least get him to respond when she gets upset. Penny and Bernie have their men pretty much under control so they probably see the nerdy activity as a favorable trade-off. Better having a man playing D&D then T&A.

Edited by BangerMain
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Seems to me that Amy meets the definition of nerdy, no?  I'll admit she has humanized a lot since we were first introduced to her (she was almost a robot in her first meeting with Sheldon), but she's way south of "normal" by anyone's definition. 

 

Anyway, having the girls go in costume to a some kind of nerd convention would be good.  And for those of us who like the Leonard/Penny ship, it would be nice to see Penny just want to do something nice for Leonard ("Sure, honey, why not, let's go.")  Come on, Penny, how about showing a little love for the guy?.   I mean, even in The Proton Resurgence, she still has to break his chops about using the word "cool." (I did love her firing the nerf rockets, though).

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We've seen the girls arguing over comic books, we've seen both Bernadette and Penny playing online video games (Penny at an obsessive level), and we are about to see them playing DND.  While they don't circle back around to them still doing it, how much nerdier can they get?

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Anyway, having the girls go in costume to a some kind of nerd convention would be good. And for those of us who like the Leonard/Penny ship, it would be nice to see Penny just want to do something nice for Leonard ("Sure, honey, why not, let's go.") Come on, Penny, how about showing a little love for the guy?. .

But she was playing with his toy gun, which is always good.

Not that I have a list but Altaira and Jessica 6 come to mind. Leonard can go as Commander John J. Adams or Logan. Or as the alien from "Dark Star"... :)

Sheldon as Robbie? Or Morbius.

Soooo "Not gonna happen". But is this worth a thread for fun?

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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We've seen the girls arguing over comic books, we've seen both Bernadette and Penny playing online video games (Penny at an obsessive level), and we are about to see them playing DND.  While they don't circle back around to them still doing it, how much nerdier can they get?

 

Well the thing with the costumes and conventions had been mentioned a lot in the show, through all the seasons, so I guess I want them nerdy enough to do that.  Penny could go and all the nerds go nuts over her, so she wins a trophy for best costume, which would drive Sheldon crazy.

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We've seen the girls arguing over comic books, we've seen both Bernadette and Penny playing online video games (Penny at an obsessive level), and we are about to see them playing DND.  While they don't circle back around to them still doing it, how much nerdier can they get?

 

This is what I meant by the girls "have only excepted a certain amount of nerd and geek behavior in the guys but have just begun to explore this in themselves". The powers that be do not allow the girls contact with nerdiness to stick. The writers find it funnier to contrast the guys immersion in nerd culture versus the girls indifference to it. Despite having been around men for years who find it important, it's still "Star Wars, Star Trek, same thing".

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This is what I meant by the girls "have only excepted a certain amount of nerd and geek behavior in the guys but have just begun to explore this in themselves". The powers that be do not allow the girls contact with nerdiness to stick. The writers find it funnier to contrast the guys immersion in nerd culture versus the girls indifference to it. Despite having been around men for years who find it important, it's still "Star Wars, Star Trek, same thing".

 

I think this is pretty realistic, actually.  Fact is, you can love a man who's into geek culture and still not embrace it for yourself. I have a dear friend, married 28 years to a geek man who loves all things sci-fi, once spent night after night for several weeks recording (on tape, this was the 90s) every single episode of Star Trek - and he had to sit through them because he wanted to keep out the commercials - has a collection of Next Generation figures in the original packaging, etc.  She has endured yearly marathons of Star Trek/Star Wars films and accompanied him to the PAX East conference in Boston last year (and begged me and my friend to join her so she'd have someone to hang out with while he and her son were geeking out all day).  Point being, she can pull out quotes from the movies like Penny does, knows who's who and what it's all about, but she DOES NOT CARE.  Doesn't find it terribly interesting.  She indulges her husband and kids because they love it, but you will never find her joining in a game of D&D or buying a comic book as anything other than a gift. When you love someone, you indulge their hobbies and obsessions because you love them and it gives them happiness, and it doesn't matter whether or not you enjoy it yourself.  

Edited by Europa
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But she was playing with his toy gun, which is always good.

Not that I have a list but Altaira and Jessica 6 come to mind. Leonard can go as Commander John J. Adams or Logan. Or as the alien from "Dark Star"... :)

Sheldon as Robbie? Or Morbius.

Soooo "Not gonna happen". But is this worth a thread for fun?

SOK in one story had the idea of Droxine of Stratos from The Cloud Minders in series 3 of STOS so Leonard could go as Kirk, look up the costume and you will see why it's perfect for Penny and Leonard.

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I think this is pretty realistic, actually.  Fact is, you can love a man who's into geek culture and still not embrace it for yourself. I have a dear friend, married 28 years to a geek man who loves all things sci-fi, once spent night after night for several weeks recording (on tape, this was the 90s) every single episode of Star Trek - and he had to sit through them because he wanted to keep out the commercials - has a collection of Next Generation figures in the original packaging, etc.  She has endured yearly marathons of Star Trek/Star Wars films and accompanied him to the PAX East conference in Boston last year (and begged me and my friend to join her so she'd have someone to hang out with while he and her son were geeking out all day).  Point being, she can pull out quotes from the movies like Penny does, knows who's who and what it's all about, but she DOES NOT CARE.  Doesn't find it terribly interesting.  She indulges her husband and kids because they love it, but you will never find her joining in a game of D&D or buying a comic book as anything other than a gift. When you love someone, you indulge their hobbies and obsessions because you love them and it gives them happiness, and it doesn't matter whether or not you enjoy it yourself.  

 

I think you are right about this being realistic. My wife looks at the SyFy channel and will go to superhero and Sci-Fi flicks like "Iron Man" and "Star Trek" but will view it as momentary diversions while I explore consistency in the back story or plausibility of the technology. She is simply never going to be a geek girl, though I love that she indulges me. She does not  know Heinlein from Heimlich but it works for us.

 

The guys should be grateful that Penny, Bernadette and Amy find their passion for the nerd world harmless and maybe a little endearing.

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