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Leonard And Penny Shippers Thread (Possible Spoilers)

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SOK in one story had the idea of Droxine of Stratos from The Cloud Minders in series 3 of STOS so Leonard could go as Kirk, look up the costume and you will see why it's perfect for Penny and Leonard.

Can this happen, please? (And thank you, and memory alpha).

..I wonder if this raises any rights issues? They had to credit the "buffy" cover. Would they have to licence other creative's stuff? I didnt check the credits in "The Bakersfield Expedition".

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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I think this is pretty realistic, actually.  Fact is, you can love a man who's into geek culture and still not embrace it for yourself. I have a dear friend, married 28 years to a geek man who loves all things sci-fi, once spent night after night for several weeks recording (on tape, this was the 90s) every single episode of Star Trek - and he had to sit through them because he wanted to keep out the commercials - has a collection of Next Generation figures in the original packaging, etc.  She has endured yearly marathons of Star Trek/Star Wars films and accompanied him to the PAX East conference in Boston last year (and begged me and my friend to join her so she'd have someone to hang out with while he and her son were geeking out all day).  Point being, she can pull out quotes from the movies like Penny does, knows who's who and what it's all about, but she DOES NOT CARE.  Doesn't find it terribly interesting.  She indulges her husband and kids because they love it, but you will never find her joining in a game of D&D or buying a comic book as anything other than a gift. When you love someone, you indulge their hobbies and obsessions because you love them and it gives them happiness, and it doesn't matter whether or not you enjoy it yourself.

 

All good points and all accurate.

 

Penny indulges Leonard and that is a good thing because it shows that she does in fact love him for who he is. He also does the same for her. The only problem with this from a story-telling point of view is that this seems to be all that their relationship, even this 2.0 version is built on, and IMO that is not good. The big thing this relationship still lacks is seeing these two be able to do something together(other than sex)that they both mutually enjoy. Something that doesn't require any type of indulgences from either side. Otherwise these two don't have a credible future together. Because if indulging the other person is the only way you can spend time with them, then spending time with that person eventually loses it's charm and then becomes a chore. 

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DPK, 

 

Agreed.  My only comment might be that, as a comedy, it's the conflict that creates the comedy situation.  I can't think of an example of a comedy show that showcased the main couple enjoying activities together.  The comedy usually arises from their differences - he wants to go a football game with a painted face and acting like an idiot and she wants to go to the opera.  They may go together, but neither likes the other's activity.  They go along out of love.  So I am fine with the differences, but with Penny I just want to see her show a little more obvious affection (not talking bedroom stuff here) toward Leonard (has she said the big ILY a second time?). 

 

Maybe I'm sensitive to this from my own life:  I don't need or expect my girlfriend to love or play the guitar because I do, but I'd like (and don't get) a little more something from her that acknowledges that she knows it's important to me and therefore she will at least feign some general interest.  So it goes.

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In general they need to make Penny more of a person. Early on, she was shown going out with people. Right now she appears to have no life but to hang with L in either her apartment or his and work. Please give her some kind of acting opportunities so that she has a richer, fuller life than we see now

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DPK,  Agreed.  My only comment might be that, as a comedy, it's the conflict that creates the comedy situation.  I can't think of an example of a comedy show that showcased the main couple enjoying activities together.  The comedy usually arises from their differences - he wants to go a football game with a painted face and acting like an idiot and she wants to go to the opera.  

The Dick Van Dyke show. Although there were episodes with the conflict between Rob and Laura(the main couple), the majority of the episode had conflict between Rob and his work(and the people who worked with him). Or, Laura and her friends, or Rob and Laura together in conflict with another Individual, couple, group, or situation. Much of the time with it being Rob and Laura vs who or what, they are shown doing things they both enjoy(or neither enjoy but has to be done) together.

This also speaks to the high quality of the cast and the high quality of the writing to be able to pull it off. It's one of my favourtists shows ever and I fully understand the reverence Chuck Lorre has for the leading producer of that show, Sheldon Leonard.

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The Dick Van Dyke show. Although there were episodes with the conflict between Rob and Laura(the main couple), the majority of the episode had conflict between Rob and his work(and the people who worked with him). Or, Laura and her friends, or Rob and Laura together in conflict with another Individual, couple, group, or situation. Much of the time with it being Rob and Laura vs who or what, they are shown doing things they both enjoy(or neither enjoy but has to be done) together.

This also speaks to the high quality of the cast and the high quality of the writing to be able to pull it off. It's one of my favourtists shows ever and I fully understand the reverence Chuck Lorre has for the leading producer of that show, Sheldon Leonard.

Good call

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The Dick Van Dyke show. Although there were episodes with the conflict between Rob and Laura(the main couple), the majority of the episode had conflict between Rob and his work(and the people who worked with him). Or, Laura and her friends, or Rob and Laura together in conflict with another Individual, couple, group, or situation. Much of the time with it being Rob and Laura vs who or what, they are shown doing things they both enjoy(or neither enjoy but has to be done) together.

This also speaks to the high quality of the cast and the high quality of the writing to be able to pull it off. It's one of my favourtists shows ever and I fully understand the reverence Chuck Lorre has for the leading producer of that show, Sheldon Leonard.

 

The Dick Van Dyke Show was one of the 5 greatest sitcoms of all time.

 

Maybe it was the era that Sheldon Leonard shows appeared but all his main couples were very low drama: The Andy Griffin Show, The Danny Thomas Show, My World and Welcome to it. There was no need to concentrate on couples stress, problems arrived and went by the end of the episode.

 

The couples, as Nogravitastall said, were us against the world.

Edited by BangerMain
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DPK, 

 

Agreed.  My only comment might be that, as a comedy, it's the conflict that creates the comedy situation.  I can't think of an example of a comedy show that showcased the main couple enjoying activities together.  The comedy usually arises from their differences - he wants to go a football game with a painted face and acting like an idiot and she wants to go to the opera.  They may go together, but neither likes the other's activity.  They go along out of love.  So I am fine with the differences, but with Penny I just want to see her show a little more obvious affection (not talking bedroom stuff here) toward Leonard (has she said the big ILY a second time?). 

 

Maybe I'm sensitive to this from my own life:  I don't need or expect my girlfriend to love or play the guitar because I do, but I'd like (and don't get) a little more something from her that acknowledges that she knows it's important to me and therefore she will at least feign some general interest.  So it goes.

 

I get this but at the same time the writers job is to sell me on the idea this couple not only should be together but that their relationship makes sense and is one that can last. That is not something I can get 100 percent behind if all I see on screen is conflict. Now I am willing to give some leeway in the fact that is this is a sitcom and comedy most of the time comes from the conflict or contrast, on a intellectual I completely understand that fact, but I do need to see moments where these characters don't have to compromise in order for me to buy into the  relationship as a whole. This is an area that L/P still need to improve on as far as the show is concerned.

 

Leonard and Penny as a couple of made major strides this season but still needs work and this is one of those areas that needs work.

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I get this but at the same time the writers job is to sell me on the idea this couple not only should be together but that their relationship makes sense and is one that can last. That is not something I can get 100 percent behind if all I see on screen is conflict. Now I am willing to give some leeway in the fact that is this is a sitcom and comedy most of the time comes from the conflict or contrast, on a intellectual I completely understand that fact, but I do need to see moments where these characters don't have to compromise in order for me to buy into the  relationship as a whole. This is an area that L/P still need to improve on as far as the show is concerned.

 

Leonard and Penny as a couple of made major strides this season but still needs work and this is one of those areas that needs work.

I think resolving this would answer the question 'What do you talk about?' They must do SOMETHING off camera together besides coitus, but what? There must be SOME common interests.

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I think resolving this would answer the question 'What do you talk about?' They must do SOMETHING off camera together besides coitus, but what? There must be SOME common interests.

Yep, totally agree with this.  I think about my girlfriend whose husband is a geek, and yes, they spend a lot of time doing their own thing - but they still have things they like to do together. I'd like to see the writers find a few such things for Leonard and Penny.

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I agree with all of the above.  I want Leonard and Penny to share some common interests, and I want Penny to show a little more affection to Leonard.  Just not sure the writers see it the same way.  

 

Thanks to all for your great insight into the show and the main characters.  It adds to the enjoyment of being a TBBT fan.

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It's also important because when it comes to television and movies the golden rule is: Show, don't tell.

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There are actually a couple of common interests that developed this season - Penny's fascination with science (and through it, with Leonard) and Leonard's appreciation of Penny as an actress. The former was clear in the most recent episode. I think Leonard does like acting, since he likes cosplay, if nothing else. He quoted Shakespere with Priya, and knew of significance of Penny's recent role.

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So from the latest episode it looks like Penny did not try the '101 science experiments for kids' gift from Leonard :p

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Piling on, i'd say care and nuture of Sheldon

precludes display of any other activities. It just crowds out anything else that might have been put on screen.

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I get this but at the same time the writers job is to sell me on the idea this couple not only should be together but that their relationship makes sense and is one that can last. That is not something I can get 100 percent behind if all I see on screen is conflict. Now I am willing to give some leeway in the fact that is this is a sitcom and comedy most of the time comes from the conflict or contrast, on a intellectual I completely understand that fact, but I do need to see moments where these characters don't have to compromise in order for me to buy into the relationship as a whole. This is an area that L/P still need to improve on as far as the show is concerned.

Leonard and Penny as a couple of made major strides this season but still needs work and this is one of those areas that needs work.

DPK,

I think you have laid out what should be one of the principle plans for season 7. In season 6 we know that they are committed for the long run, season 7 should be about working out the details for a successful marrige.

Edited by BangerMain
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All good points and all accurate.

 

Penny indulges Leonard and that is a good thing because it shows that she does in fact love him for who he is. He also does the same for her. The only problem with this from a story-telling point of view is that this seems to be all that their relationship, even this 2.0 version is built on, and IMO that is not good. The big thing this relationship still lacks is seeing these two be able to do something together(other than sex)that they both mutually enjoy. Something that doesn't require any type of indulgences from either side. Otherwise these two don't have a credible future together. Because if indulging the other person is the only way you can spend time with them, then spending time with that person eventually loses it's charm and then becomes a chore. 

You do make a very good point and I agree that it would be very nice to see Penny and Leonard "fall in love", so to speak, with the same thing. It definitely is something that season 7 could bring to the table to make the relationship even more stable. 

To be honest, I believe the way in which the writers have had Penny and Leonard indulge each other this season shows that this may very well be where this is all heading for, Buffy excepted, Penny has been shown to like what she has been doing with/for Leonard and vice versa. 

 

So while a physics textbook is not something she would read or even look at if she were not in a relationship with a scientist, Penny has developped a sincere (though limited) interest for what Leonard does. She did not fake enthusiasm in the lab (6.05) : she was genuinely taken in by what her boyfriend was saying. And in last Thursday's episode, she was equally curious about Pr Proton's experiments. Admittedly, as you said, Penny's forays into the scientific world always start out as indulgences to Leonard. Nevertheless, she does seem to take personal pleasure from them, and not just "pleasure by proxy" as it would be if she were merely humouring her boyfriend.

In the same vein but a different area, Penny's emotional openness of late is also a form of "indulgence gone right" : she has always known that Leonard is a pretty emotional person and wishes for her to be too, so since 6.05-ish, she has been trying to adapt, to talk more, to answer when he asks about her feelings. But in The Closure Alternative, she opened up to him not just because she knew it would please him but also (and perhaps mainly) because she wanted to. She even initiated the conversation !

 

The same logic applies to Leonard going to see her in A Streetcar Named Desire. From what we know, a night at the theatre is not his definition of a great evening. He clearly went because the woman he loves was in it. Yet, he ended up enjoying himself : not because it pleased Penny but because... He simply liked it. 

 

As hamerman55 wrote, there is a little something in there that goes further than mere mutual humouring. Penny is slowly discovering that she is capable of liking what Leonard likes : granted, she will never like it as much as he does but she can actually take pleasure from the same things as him. And Leonard is going through the same process. I believe we have passed the "if you like it, fine, I'll do it" point and are currently creeping towards the "you like it and, oh surprise, I actually kind of like it too" goalpost. The pace is a bit glacial, that much is true, but the progress is still there. 

If the writers do not change their minds during the summer hiatus, this trend should become more visible next season. 

Edited by Chiara
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Penny has always been open to going to lectures with Leonard, even if they end out boring her, oddly enough. I remember in the first season when Leonard presented the invited paper that he and Sheldon co-authored, Penny helped him pick out clothes, and then went with the guys. While she was bored, she still went. There was no reason it at the time, and quite frankly, a talk like that would be extremely hard for anyone not in the field to to follow. When last season Leonard wanted to go to a documentary on dams, she still went, and remembered enough to use the information to try and impress the hipster guy who was sort of a cleaned up Leonard. When you get right down to it, the whole show is an homage to how cool science is. Penny is attracted to this group of the most intense scientists on the planet, and their equally scientific SOs. David Underhill is another example. Penny's attraction to Leonard increases when she is exposed to his world, as he is confident and strong there.

Penny has not been shown in her chosen profession but once, and the guys were impressed. I think that is a fertile area of commonality, as what Penny would do as an actress is far more accessible than experimental physics. It has to be or it wouldn't be popular culture. Leonard has shown an interest as I mentioned above. I think Leonard would dig going to see Penny act in plays, and it would be a respectable career for his spouse.

Edited by hamerman55
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hamermann55,

 

We'll still have to see what happens with Penny's acting.  Penny hasn't done much acting, and I am not convinced she has a real passion for it (let's face it, becoming a successful actor is hard work, which is not something that Penny's fond of).  She came to Hollywood for the glamour of being a movie or TV star.  And she tells Leonard it will happen because a psychic at some party told her so (well, that takes the pressure off to work at it!).  There's a difference between wanting the glamour life and loving the art of acting.  

 

I agree that she has come to like science more (and I think the first Penny visit to Leonard's lab to be one of the best scenes in the whole series).  And that's important for the L&P relationship.  Leonard would gladly come to Penny's acting gigs (as you say, it's a lot more accessible for most people, plus Leonard would basically enjoy it because Penny's in it).

 

Again, I'm still waiting for evidence that Penny is really devoted to and passionate about acting.

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I agree with all of the above.  I want Leonard and Penny to share some common interests, and I want Penny to show a little more affection to Leonard.  Just not sure the writers see it the same way.  

 

Thanks to all for your great insight into the show and the main characters.  It adds to the enjoyment of being a TBBT fan.

 

 

Penny lack of affection shown toward Leonard is what makes me question how she truly feels about him. 

 

If Penny would be shown with the same excitement that she displays for the Shamy relationship (see 6.14) for Leonard I think it would go a long way in letting the viewers know what she feel for Leonard.  Heck if she would put half the effort into Lenny that she has for Shammy...  what I am saying is that Penny seems to be more invested in Shamy than her relationship with Leonard.

 

At this time Penny is saying all the right things but the actions aren't there to match those words.  I want Leonard to have the same devotion shown toward him --- that he has for Penny.

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Penny has always been open to going to lectures with Leonard, even if they end out boring her, oddly enough. I remember in the first season when Leonard presented the invited paper that he and asheldon co-authored, Penny helped him pick out clothes, and then went with the guys. While she was bored, she still went. 

It is absolutely true that Penny has always been willing to put in the hours, as it were, and join the guys in their activities, whether purely scientific (conferences, etc.) or geeky (fancy dress parties and whatnot). However, what has been interesting to witness is the evolution of her response to those events. 

In the past, they were sort of chores to her. She would do it for Leonard's or the whole gang's sake, in the name of friendship, but took little to no pleasure in it. Nowadays, she actually likes what goes on; she still falls asleep during the occasional lecture but, all in all, she is hanging in there. Not to humour anyone but because she is attracted to it on a personal level. 

 

Again, I'm still waiting for evidence that Penny is really devoted to and passionate about acting.

I have to admit the writers have really dropped the ball on that one. In 6.18 they showed us Penny as a perfectly talented actress with the ability to tackle one of the most challenging parts in the American repertoire and a couple of episodes later, when looking for her "passion" in life, they completely forgot about her acting. They even went as far as trivialising it completely by attaching it to some prediction made by a quack at a bachelorette party !

 

However, I suppose it would not be too far-fetched to assume she is, in fact, passionate about her acting career considering the fact that she has no given up on it yet. If all she was interested in was a glamourous lifestyle and rotund bank account, well... She is stunning, young, adorable, smart, funny and sweet. She could have gone to The Ivy, dressed to impress, and caught a very rich husband. Morally, one may think whatever one may want about such methods but they have proven their efficacy.

Still, Penny prefers to keep on working at the Cheesecake Factory, taking acting classes and going to auditions. It shows undeniable commitment. So it is fair to believe she does not want just the attributes of stardom (money, comfort, glamour). She wants it all, talent, recognition and personal accomplishment included. 

 

Nevertheless, I do agree. It would be nice to have an unambiguous confirmation of her dedication to the craft. Fingers crossed for season 7 !

 

Penny lack of affection shown toward Leonard is what makes me question how she truly feels about him. 

 

[...]

 

At this time Penny is saying all the right things but the actions aren't there to match those words.  I want Leonard to have the same devotion shown toward him --- that he has for Penny.

While I think I know where you are coming from, I do not completely agree.

 

The problem is that it is quite difficult to quantify affection. Does it have anything to do with sentimentality ? With physical contact ? With emotional openness ? With support ? With acceptation ? 

 

On the sentimentality front, Penny is lame, it is a fact. She is not sentimental at all whereas Leonard is, wholeheartedly. It may come a long way to explain why she fails to get as excited as Leonard (and the rest of the gang) about as many things as they do. Her ability to get moved by "things" is extremely limited : she cannot be fascinated by a TV show because, to her, it is just a TV show, even if it is Buffy; she does not understand why anyone would want to keep a prop from a movie for, to her, it is just a prop from a movie, ring or not; she does not care for Valentine's Day because, to her, it is just another made up celebration in the calendar; etc. The only object she has been shown to be viscerally attached to is the snowflake Leonard gave her and the reason why she loves it so much is because it is from him. 

Physical contact : Penny has been touching Leonard since 6.05. Many have remarked on it. She holds his hand, his arm; she hugs him and sits very close to him. In this regard, she could not be more affectionate and still keep her clothes on.

Emotional openness : well, a bit like with sentimentality, it is not something that comes naturally to Penny. Leonard is emotional, she is not. But she has been working on it. It is not perfect but the improvement is noteworthy. However, I have to say I doubt she will ever be as emotionally available as Leonard. Not only because it would require a complete change of her character for that to happen but also because the writers are too in love with their "gender clichés in reverse" trope : Penny is the tough, butch "guy" while Leonard is the soft, tender "woman". 

Support and acceptance : I think Penny is quite exemplary on that level. She supports and accepts Leonard fully, nerdiness and all. 

 

In my opinion, she is undoubtedly committed and devoted to Leonard. Her way of showing it may not be spectacular (I doubt she will cry her eyes out when he has to leave for the North Sea, yet it does not mean she will not be terribly sad to be separated from him) but it is there, hidden behind the little jokes, pursed lips and cocked eyebrows. 

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In my opinion, she is undoubtedly committed and devoted to Leonard. Her way of showing it may not be spectacular (I doubt she will cry her eyes out when he has to leave for the North Sea, yet it does not mean she will not be terribly sad to be separated from him) but it is there, hidden behind the little jokes, pursed lips and cocked eyebrows. 

I agree. Though I think the most dramatic scene of the finale will be the Penny/Raj scene. Seeing Raj being upset about Lucy may help Penny realize how much she misses Leonard. It won't be at the airport IMO because your expecting the drama there. And of course Raj "breakthrogh"

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Hi Chiara.

 

I want to believe that Penny feels a tenths of what Leonard feels for her.  What is playing out on screen isn't showing that in my opinion.  Here are some of the reasons:

 

- Take of instant her making dinner for her and Leonard, she wouldn't be bother cook the meal properly.  Now good back and watch when Penny made the meal for Sheldon.

 

- Penny use to light up when she was interacting with Leonard in Lenny 1.0.  Now Penny seems more liking she is just going through the motions.

 

- Penny shows more emotions at the idea of Shamy having sex, to the point of almost being over the top in her reaction.  Now I have looked for one scene where I see any type of open emotions with her in Lenny 2.0, I can't find it.

 

- As per the beta test, Penny wanted Leonard to put more thought into dating.  So Leonard tries to get her a great VD and what happens? It doesn't matter is she into VD, her boyfriend went out of his way to create a nice time for her.  Pennyr being sentimentality or not isn't what count here, it's about her appreciating and showing Leonard some respect for what he tries to do. 

 

- As for Penny being the 'man' in the relationship and Leonard being the 'woman' it's no excuse for the lack of open emotions on Penny end. I would have the same opinion if Leonard was coming off this way in the relationship. Penny need to put more work into the relationship.  No pushing from others or getting jealous to get some kind of reaction.

 

- As for Penny not crying over Leonard leaving, well I will be happy if it comes across that Penny is sad and a little broken up that her boyfriend will be gone for 4 months.  Also Penny never had a problem showing her anger at Leonard to his face so why can't she do the same in regard to her feelings for him? If you love someone then show IT!!

 

Something in Lenny 2.0 isn't bearing any fruits from what the writers are trying to portray, imo. I know others feel different from me and that's okay.

 

Finally, look at Bernie and Amy and how they viewers get what they feel for their SO.  I want the same from Penny and it's shouldn't be to much to ask for.

Edited by ArmyGirl
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I agree. Though I think the most dramatic scene of the finale will be the Penny/Raj scene. Seeing Raj being upset about Lucy may help Penny realize how much she misses Leonard. It won't be at the airport IMO because your expecting the drama there. And of course Raj "breakthrogh"

 

 

You don't know how much I want this to be true.  I need this in order to keep supporting my ship and Lenny 2.0 i letting me down. I want Leonard to have someone that truly loves him and wants to be with him. 

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