Ship Zone Leonard And Penny Shippers Thread (Possible Spoilers)

[ArmyGirl]

I've been thinking about this and for me, as long as they keep the love, I can maybe live with Leonard as the straight man, as long as they get the odd moment where tptb affirm his intrinsic nerdiness. They have given Sheldon something of a hiding lately too, so I'd be happier if the make the antagonist someone outside the group. Flat Earthers maybe.

 

 

I could go with something like this.  Anything to give Leonard a life outside of Sheldon and his relationship with Penny.  I have never seen a show where the protagonist is almost totally ignored by the storytellers week after week and for me it's sad.

[hamerman55]

I am not saying that Leonard and Penny won't have a homecoming.  I just wonder if it will be treated in the same manner as Leonard send off as less about them and more about another character(s). 

 

As for upcoming storylines for Leonard, Penny, and Lenny --- since a day one fan, history has proven that writers have no problems pushing them to the background.  I know there is plenty of material out there that can be used to push forward our OTP, it's about what the show will due and how much effort they are willing to put into the storylines.

One thing I worry about is a treatment of Leonard's homecoming like the first episode of season 3. They get back from four months in the Arctic, Leonard goes over to Penny's to tell her they are back, and she basically hops into his arms. The rest of the episode is about Sheldon and his arrogance in reporting their findings via email before they even get home. It is all about Sheldon. Leonard and Penny get what feels like thirty seconds before he storms over there, and proceeds to hammer on the door demanding that HIS NEEDS be attended to. He even states that Penny showing Leonard affection is a mistake, which he must interrupt to force Leonard to deal with his problem. A problem of his own making. Consider the airtime that Leonard and Penny have, for the most anticipated episode of the first two years, and they are barely on the screen, and basically just have time to 1. declare that they couldn't think of anything else while they were apart; 2). Leonard gives her the snowflake. THAT'S IT. Two years of Leonard and Penny dancing around each other, and they get seconds of time together. Then we're off to Sheldon's problem. Of course, that was the same group that broke them up later in the season in the worst way possible, and made most of the time together about how Sheldon felt about their relationship, was inconvenienced about it, and generally him lecturing them about how incompatible they were. Sheldon has avoided these things so far, probably because Leonard and Penny spend their together time in her apartment. Hopefully Molaro and Co. are of a different mindset, and Sheldon is not so much their pet. They can get the Sheldon out of their system by keeping Leonard on the boat for a couple of episodes, have Sheldon whine and bitch about how inconvenient and jealous he is, and how annoyed everyone else is with dealing with him, and then have him sneak back. Wouldn't it be funny if Penny didn't tell anyone he is back for a day or two so they could have some time WITHOUT SHELDON? Penny could even fly to England for a holiday, and leave everyone else spinning around dealing with Sheldon. They could run two plotlines that way, so it won't be so rushed.

[Nogravitasatall]

Don't make her go to England... (lol). They deserve somewhere sunny and hot after months at sea and apart.

but you can see that I already have MY expectations set low, so that I have room not to be disappointed. (75 seconds for the farewell)

Edited May 23, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[hamerman55]

Maybe they could send Sheldon to visit his memaw and mother for Leonard's homecoming. We could have an episode focused on just Leonard's homecoming. I doubt the writers could bring themselves to do it, but it would be cool to put the focus on Leonard alone for a change. In the six seasons, Penny is the only one to go away to see family.

[Guitars1964]

I share some of the frustration of those who feel that Leonard and Penny time has been marginalized.  Certainly Sheldon's imposition on their goodbye at the airport stands out as a prime example of that.  We came damn close to having no intimate moment between L&P at all.  Probably like some others, I take what I can get, and the 75-90 seconds we got of Penny and Leonard saying goodbye was probably almost more than I had anticipated, esp in light of some of what seemed to be inferred by the taping reports, etc.  But that may also be a case of setting the bar too low.

 

I have mentioned it before and it's still true - the story of Leonard and Penny functions as a wonderful romance in many ways and serves as a great fantasy of what a lot of us envision should be the great love story, at least with the perspective now of that goodbye scene which helped a lot of us feel better.  But this is not a romantic comedy movie and it's still a sitcom, heavy on the laughs, so regardless of what many of us might like to see, e.g., letting Leonard and Penny enjoy some alone time (that we get to witness) and pour out their hearts, it just won't fit the writers' story board for a sitcom. I don't think the romance side will ever overwhelm, or even get near, to the laugh quotient.  We can hope that the writers acknowledge the romance, as they thankfully did at the airport, but it's always going to be heavily padded with comedy, even, perhaps at times, what might seem like heavy-handed comedy.  

 

You just have to be prepared that any scene of sentimentality is going to be interrupted by a joke.  It's first and foremost situation comedy.

 

Just my take...

[Tensor]

Since Guitars mention that this is a sitcom and laughs are the important thing, it reminded me of the character of Lou Grant.    He was a primary character in "The Mary Tyler Moore Show".  He played Mary's boss and was supposed to be a veteran newspaperman.     Since that was a sitcom, he (and the other characters) were not fleshed out and some things were played for laughs.   After TMTMS ended, the character was spun off into a one hour drama, where he played managing editor of a fictional newspaper called "The Los Angeles Tribune".   His background and motivations were fleshed out much more than they were on the sitcom and the comedy of the character was toned down in favor of the dramatic parts of the character.   He seriously helped the younger reporters.    We just have to accept that character development is something that takes a back seat to the comedy, in a sitcom.  

 

Ed Asner, the actor who portrayed Lou Grant won an Emmys for supporting actor in a comedy series (Mary Tyler Moore) and two Emmys as lead actor in a drama series (Lou Grant) FOR THE SAME CHARACTER. Something no one has done before or since.  

[Nogravitasatall]

@guitars1964. True, but they could throw a bigger bone for the s7 off. Just sayin'

Edited May 23, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[hamerman55]

The problem as I see it is that the writers are too quick to go for a Sheldon-centric approach to the humor, probably because such an extreme character is easy to write for. Expanding further on the Arctic return, does it make sense that Sheldon does something unprofessional and basicaly stupid, and Penny runs over to Sheldon's side to comfort him, after spending approximately a minute with the guy she is desperately in love with and has been separated from for four months. Why does Sheldon need comforting RIGHT NOW? Sheldon has just committed professional fraud by emailed everyone at the university that he, and he alone, had confirmed string theory. Sheldon is a guy well-known for not knowing which end of a screwdriver to use, and he is claiming he's done all theses experiments on his own? He hasn't spent months analayzing the data at home on real computers instaed of laptops? Think about the caution shown by the scientists that discovered the Higgs boson. After months of study, they reported that they had data that might support the existence of the Higgs boson, and only confirmed it later after independent review of their data. Sheldon works up noisy data created by an electric can opener on a laptop in the Arctic, where they should be spending every minute collecting data instead of jacking around on a laptop, so they will maximize their data set. If Sheldon had time to do this, he was basically useless on the trip and wasted NSF's money being there. I'll bet Sheldon spent all his time in the cabin while the other guys did the heavy lifting and actual work. Their reaction to getting home was telling. For three of them, it was four months in a frozen hell, while Sheldon had a blast. He should have stayed in Pasadena like Hawking is going to remain in Cambridge during Leonard's trip.

Further, Sheldon quite rightly is humiliated at work, and runs off to mommy. Howard and Raj then cockblock Leoanrd just like Sheldon, and insist that Leonard must accompany them to Texas to get Sheldon back. Why is this necessary right that minute. This is not a drop what you're doing, Sheldon's going to slit his wrists sort of moment. They each have to run to LA International, buy tickets to East Texas on the spot and fly that second? Are they feeling that guilty about feeding Sheldon what they needed to to keep from killing him? Remember, they actually had two plausible plans for doing away with him, until Leonard had the idea to fake the data. They should have left him in Texas for a few days. He would have come crawling back to Pasadena for the same reason he went with them as portrayed in the episode. It might have taken him a day or two to realize it, but he would have returned. It was all the behaviour of a spoiled child having a hissy fit for not getting their way. Quite frankly, as a nontenured research professor, he would have been in danger of losing his job in the real world.

Leonard's take on this should have been a screwup on your part does not make a crisis on mine.

It would be a novel approach if they actually write a Leonard-centric return. It could be very funny to have Leonard come back a week earlier than he told every else, and hid out in Penny's apartment for a few days. They could then have Sheldon accidentally bump into him. Then everyone but Penny could be mad at Leonard for saddling them with Sheldon for a few extra days, or something along those lines.

Edited May 23, 2013 by hamerman55

[Guitars1964]

Tensor, I did not remember that about Lou Grant.  The Penny and Leonard characters could easily support a more dramatic story in a spin off, but that's not likely to ever happen.  I guess that's where the fan fiction comes in.  Some of the more compelling fan fiction that I have read have taken the darker, more dramatic direction.  

[Guitars1964]

Leonard's take on this should have been a screwup on your part does not make a crisis on mine.

It would be a novel approach if they actually write a Leonard-centric return. It could be very funny to have Leonard come back a week earlier than he told every else, and hid out in Penny's apartment for a few days. They could then have Sheldon accidentally bump into him. Then everyone but Penny could be mad at Leonard for saddling them with Sheldon for a few extra days, or something along those lines.

I'd go along with a Leonard-centric return.  As far as the North Pole situation, I think Leonard and the others had to accept some responsibility for intentionally sabotaging Sheldon's experiments (because he was driving them crazy).  It had unintended consequences in that Sheldon jumped the gun in emailing everybody when he got back.  But it was probably unprofessional to have done what they did, notwithstanding how Sheldon handled it.

 

No question that Sheldon gets too much attention from the others.  He can really be an SOB, but in so many ways he's like a little boy, and Penny seems have a maternal streak toward him, and I found it endearing that she wanted Leonard to go after Sheldon and make it right.  Shared responsibility for what happened for sure, but between Sheldon and Leonard, we know which one was going to do the adult thing and which one would quit his job and run home to Mommy.

[rickfromillinois]

I don't think that when Leonard returns we will find that Penny or Leonard has done anything wrong.  At most there may be a female stalker who was on the ship with him and thinks that he loves her.  Maybe because he kept giving her his cottage cheese and she thinks it was because he was flirting with her while in truth, he did it because of being lactose intollerant, he couldn't eat it.   As for Penny,  I think that we will fine that she has been the model girl friend while Leonard was gone but because of his absence Sheldon has been more dependent on her then in the past.   All in all, I think that Leonard's absence will bring Leonard and Penny closer together.

[SRAM]

I truely think the writers lost focus in this show. The original plot was about Leonard and Penny and they turned it into the Sheldon show, so now that someone thought Sheldon needed a girlfriend, they added Amy and wrote themselves into a corner. They can't move Shamy along because that would make Sheldon normal and ruin the Sheldon show. So now we see stupid and mean things he does to her so they can have excuses for him to not move forward with their relationship. They are trying to make their whole show about Sheldon and there is only so far that you can take crazy.

[eirwinrommel]

I'd go along with a Leonard-centric return.  As far as the North Pole situation, I think Leonard and the others had to accept some responsibility for intentionally sabotaging Sheldon's experiments (because he was driving them crazy).  It had unintended consequences in that Sheldon jumped the gun in emailing everybody when he got back.  But it was probably unprofessional to have done what they did, notwithstanding how Sheldon handled it.

 

No question that Sheldon gets too much attention from the others.  He can really be an SOB, but in so many ways he's like a little boy, and Penny seems have a maternal streak toward him, and I found it endearing that she wanted Leonard to go after Sheldon and make it right.  Shared responsibility for what happened for sure, but between Sheldon and Leonard, we know which one was going to do the adult thing and which one would quit his job and run home to Mommy.

They didn't sabotage Sheldon's experiment. They kept the original data, they just fed Sheldon something to shut him up (and save his life). Any reputable scientist (i.e. not an egotistical glory hound) would have (as hamerman55 said) 'spent months analyzing the data', before submitting it for peer review (I'm sure the others would have told Sheldon before he began the analysis). So any problems from 'jumping the gun' were Sheldon's fault.

[hamerman55]

They didn't sabotage Sheldon's experiment. They kept the original data, they just fed Sheldon something to shut him up (and save his life). Any reputable scientist (i.e. not an egotistical glory hound) would have (as hamerman55 said) 'spent months analyzing the data', before submitting it for peer review (I'm sure the others would have told Sheldon before he began the analysis). So any problems from 'jumping the gun' were Sheldon's fault.

I've been on the periphery of two jumping the gun situations, and they both left bad tastes in my mouth. In one case it was handled very professionally with retractions, but it broke the health and spirit of the senior personnel involved. They did eventually recover, but it was terrible to watch. They were well-meaning and just got caught up in the hunt. These sorts of races to a result destroy careers and students. Sheldon is lucky is was only circulated internally. If he'd published, the university probably would have fired him. As it was, Sheldon wasn't apologetic for being a jerk, he was devasted that he was denied his glory. Regardless of his intellect, this makes him a bad scientist.

[hamerman55]

I share some of the frustration of those who feel that Leonard and Penny time has been marginalized.  Certainly Sheldon's imposition on their goodbye at the airport stands out as a prime example of that.  We came damn close to having no intimate moment between L&P at all.  Probably like some others, I take what I can get, and the 75-90 seconds we got of Penny and Leonard saying goodbye was probably almost more than I had anticipated, esp in light of some of what seemed to be inferred by the taping reports, etc.  But that may also be a case of setting the bar too low.

 

I have mentioned it before and it's still true - the story of Leonard and Penny functions as a wonderful romance in many ways and serves as a great fantasy of what a lot of us envision should be the great love story, at least with the perspective now of that goodbye scene which helped a lot of us feel better.  But this is not a romantic comedy movie and it's still a sitcom, heavy on the laughs, so regardless of what many of us might like to see, e.g., letting Leonard and Penny enjoy some alone time (that we get to witness) and pour out their hearts, it just won't fit the writers' story board for a sitcom. I don't think the romance side will ever overwhelm, or even get near, to the laugh quotient.  We can hope that the writers acknowledge the romance, as they thankfully did at the airport, but it's always going to be heavily padded with comedy, even, perhaps at times, what might seem like heavy-handed comedy.  

 

You just have to be prepared that any scene of sentimentality is going to be interrupted by a joke.  It's first and foremost situation comedy.

 

Just my take...

I agree. I think the main problem with the airport scene was that it was heavy-handed and not particularly funny. It wasn't a good Sheldon moment, it was a bad one, where he's more worried about a minor traffic violation that will not involve him that about his best friend leaving for four months. He could even bring himself to say goodbye for worrying that the traffic cop would give them a ticket.

 

However, I am very glad that the Leonard and Penny part of the scene was essentially perfect. Penny said I love you first, and Leonard had just the right gift for her. I wonder if it will be like the snowflake, in that every time we see the locket, it is significant. I just remembered that Leonard had made the snowflake for Penny without knowing her true feelings for him. He just thought his friend (and heart's desire) would like it. 

 

I'm good with the laughs far overwhelming the romance, as I really don't watch it for romance. I think they got a lot of things right in the Halloween episode, where science, romance and humor all folded together really well. Leonard was totally in his element, Penny got closer to Leonard for the right reasons (he wasn't trying to impress her, he was just talking about science), Amy and Sheldon explored his cluelessness, Howard and Bernie had some good moments and Raj was being metrosexual. They got everyone in the show, and no one could really complain about their favorite being shorted. Small, but meaningful doses of Leonard and Penny interspersed with the funny is my idea of a good time. They just need to dial Sheldon down a bit. He wasn't this obnoxious in earlier seasons, and he was certainly nicer to Leonard. I agree with another post that suggests that the writers have trapped themselves with Amy and Sheldon. They love to write about crazy Sheldon, and painted themselves in a corner when Amy was introduced. She was great in her own right for a variety of reasons (part of Penny's posse now) and is a very sympathetic character. But for the relationship to move forward, Sheldon has to change, and clearly they do not want to do that. Making Sheldon subject to any societal norms will take away their play toy. It will be interesting to see how they deal with the show they have written. The Sheldon Show is now stuck. Their best move would be to go back to the original idea of it being about Leonard for a while. Leonard and Penny are the better plot now, along with whatever they have in mind for Raj. That will buy them time to figure out Sheldon.

[hamerman55]

I just rewatched season finale, and I'm not sure why Sheldon doesn't want Leonard to go. There was an initial mention in the first scene by Leonard that Sheldon was afraid to be by himself, which Sheldon denied. When Penny and Sheldon are shopping for the party, Sheldon is actually sort of vague. He says he doesn't like that good things are happening to Leonard, and not to him. Does Sheldon not want Leonard to go because of professional jealousy, or because he wants to keep Leonard around "to cater to his every need"? I'd be interested to see what others think, as there didn't seem to be a resolution to the question.

[Guitars1964]

I just rewatched season finale, and I'm not sure why Sheldon doesn't want Leonard to go. There was an initial mention in the first scene by Leonard that Sheldon was afraid to be by himself, which Sheldon denied. When Penny and Sheldon are shopping for the party, Sheldon is actually sort of vague. He says he doesn't like that good things are happening to Leonard, and not to him. Does Sheldon not want Leonard to go because of professional jealousy, or because he wants to keep Leonard around "to cater to his every need"? I'd be interested to see what others think, as there didn't seem to be a resolution to the question.

 

My impression of Sheldon is that he isn't self-aware enough or introspective enough to know if it's professional jealousy or if he's upset because he won't have Leonard around to attend to him.  My guess is it's both.

[eirwinrommel]

I just rewatched season finale, and I'm not sure why Sheldon doesn't want Leonard to go. There was an initial mention in the first scene by Leonard that Sheldon was afraid to be by himself, which Sheldon denied. When Penny and Sheldon are shopping for the party, Sheldon is actually sort of vague. He says he doesn't like that good things are happening to Leonard, and not to him. Does Sheldon not want Leonard to go because of professional jealousy, or because he wants to keep Leonard around "to cater to his every need"? I'd be interested to see what others think, as there didn't seem to be a resolution to the question.

I'd say both. He's unhappy because good things are happening to Lenard, and this gives Leonard a chance to escape his (Sheldon's) control, and Sheldon doesn't like that either ( Sheldon: Well, if Amy’s too busy, that gives the rest of you an opportunity to make my life easier Season 5 Episode 15, Sheldon: You gave Leonard somewhere to go. Season 6 Episode 15, Sheldon: He cater's to my every whim. Season 6 Episode 24) Sheldon regards his 'friends' as servants who are lucky to have the opportunity to do things for someone as great as him.

Edited May 24, 2013 by eirwinrommel

[Nogravitasatall]

Yeah, but that's entirely reasonable and "not exhausting at all" (this I believe is what Bernie thinks... just waiting for the takedown, lol. Leonard and Penny may have to pull her off him).

[Oldnavy]

I'd say both. He's unhappy because good things are happening to Lenard, and this gives Leonard a chance to escape his (Sheldon's) control, and Sheldon doesn't like that either ( Sheldon: Well, if Amy’s too busy, that gives the rest of you an opportunity to make my life easier Season 5 Episode 15, Sheldon: You gave Leonard somewhere to go. Season 6 Episode 15, Sheldon: He cater's to my every whim. Season 6 Episode 24) Sheldon regards his 'friends' as servants who are lucky to have the opportunity to do things for someone as great as him.

These are some good points that you make about Sheldon.  I would expect that at some point, if growing the characters is a goal of the writers, they will have to change the living arrangements of Leonard and Sheldon.  The question is, since the shows centers around Leonard and Sheldon's apartment, How do they work around that if Leonard is living with Penny.  We know that this is going to happen.  I think it will happen pretty soon. 

 

What do ya'll think?

[ajond]

These are some good points that you make about Sheldon.  I would expect that at some point, if growing the characters is a goal of the writers, they will have to change the living arrangements of Leonard and Sheldon.  The question is, since the shows centers around Leonard and Sheldon's apartment, How do they work around that if Leonard is living with Penny.  We know that this is going to happen.  I think it will happen pretty soon. 

 

What do ya'll think?

Surely if P&L start living together it would have to be in 4A. 4B is not big enough for the group and S needs to be close to his "carers".

[ajond]

Surely if P&L start living together it would have to be in 4A. 4B is not big enough for the group and S needs to be close to his "carers".

I meant S would have yo move across the hall.

[eirwinrommel]

I meant S would have yo move across the hall.

I've said this before, but the answer (I always receive) is that Sheldon won't leave his 'spot'. I think Penny and Sheldon switching makes sense but others disagree.

 

As far as the production of the show goes, it's no big deal. No new sets to build, just re-dress the main Apt.s to reflect the changed tenants. As far as Sheldon's character goes he just moves across the hall, and changes the address on his incoming mail from 4a to 4b. Sure he'll have to find another 'spot' in the new place, but 90+% of his life won't change. Compared to moving to Bozeman Montana (season 3 Episode 13) that's nothing. An additional benefit (from his POV) is that it gives him an excuse as to why Amy can't be his roommate.

They can still have the group meeting in 4a, just that this time Sheldon can go home whenever he wants.

Edited May 24, 2013 by eirwinrommel

[ajond]

I've said this before, but the answer (I always receive) is that Sheldon won't leave his 'spot'. I think Penny and Sheldon switching makes sense but others disagree.

 

As far as the production of the show goes, it's no big deal. No new sets to build, just re-dress the main Apt.s to reflect the changed tenants. As far as Sheldon's character goes he just moves across the hall, and changes the address on his incoming mail from 4a to 4b. Sure he'll have to find another 'spot' in the new place, but 90+% of his life won't change. Compared to moving to Bozeman Montana (season 3 Episode 13) that's nothing. An additional benefit (from his POV) is that it gives him an excuse as to why Amy can't be his roommate.

They can still have the group meeting in 4a, just that this time Sheldon can go home whenever he wants.

Sorry,I think I got my As and Bs confused.

[Nogravitasatall]

Eirwinrommel, I'm not yet convinced that Penny would surrender her sovereignty. Its a practical solution, but maybe not acceptable. She loses her autonomy. Of course, she could give it up voluntarily, but then you are back to Sheldon and that question.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Nogravitasatall