Ship Zone Leonard And Penny Shippers Thread (Possible Spoilers)

[eirwinrommel]

Eirwinrommel, I'm not yet convinced that Penny would surrender her sovereignty. Its a practical solution, but maybe not acceptable. She loses her autonomy. Of course, she could give it up voluntarily, but then you are back to Sheldon and that question.

If L/P move in together she's going to loose her 'sovereignty' at some point. The mere act of Leonard moving in to 'her' Apt. (4b) means she'll be giving some of it up. In any case Penny's going to loose some 'sovereignty'. If they move into another Apt. (where ever it is) they will have a co-dominion from the beginning instead of an eventual one when/if they move into either 4a or 4b.

Switching Penny and Sheldon causes the least disruption for the show (no new sets needed), for Sheldon (just move across the hall, find a new spot, change address from 4a to 4b, L/P still there to whine to) and L/P (won't have to move all their stuff down four flights of stairs, I don't know how often you've had to move but moving is a big pain so the easier the better)

Edited May 24, 2013 by eirwinrommel

[Nogravitasatall]

If L/P move in together she's going to loose her 'sovereignty' at some point. The mere act of Leonard moving in to 'her' Apt. (4b) means she'll be giving some of it up. In any case Penny's going to loose some 'sovereignty'. If they move into another Apt. (where ever it is) they will have a co-dominion from the beginning instead of an eventual one when/if they move into either 4a or 4b.

Switching Penny and Sheldon causes the least disruption for the show (no new sets needed), for Sheldon (just move across the hall, find a new spot, change address from 4a to 4b, L/P still there to whine to) and L/P (won't have to move all their stuff down four flights of stairs, I don't know how often you've had to move but moving is a big pain so the easier the better)

Sure, what the hell. I do want a reshuffle too. This could work...

[hamerman55]

It also makes sense to switch Penny and Sheldon from a show canon standpoint. Leonard is the center of the group. Sheldon may have his spot, but the other guys come to see Leonard. Sheldon is tolerated. The only person who has ever gotten mad at Leonard is Penny, and actually for good reason. Partly it is the character of Leonard to not give offense, but also because he is the alpha male in the group. The layout of the main room bears this out. Leonard sits apart in his own chair, everyone else sits on the sofa or the floor in front of him. Penny now sits next to him in a smaller chair as the alpha female. Sheldon sits in the middle, but on the shared sofa and at a slightly lower level. Leonard doesn't have to turn his head to see anyone. I think we've seen some evidence to support this. Since Leonard has been eating over at Penny's a lot, there are fewer group meals. We haven't seen the others eating with Sheldon and Amy without Leonard.

One thing I don't recall anyone metioning is the idea that Leonard just might like Sheldon for no particular reason. Sheldon saving his life might have started it, but as has been mentioned, it wouldn't account for Leonard being with Sheldon all this time. While Sheldon does drive him crazy at times, in many respects, he is a good roommate. The bills get paid on time, they split expenses, they have similar work habits, they share a lot of interests, and have a routine down. I think about the Giant Jenga scene. Leonard came up with this crazy idea, and Sheldon was game to try it. Apparently they tried another Leonard idea, Tiny Twister, and it didn't go too well. But consider what that means. Leonard comes up with a flaky idea, and Sheldon is game to try it. That adds balance to the relationship that isn't often seen in the normal conflict scenarios in the show. They can clearly at this point afford their own places, but they choose not to, because ultimately they enjoy each other's company from time to time, and sharing expenses gives them more disposable income.

Sheldon also has found "his spot" in Penny's apartment too.

The best reason to keep Sheldon in the apartment instead of switching him with Penny is to leave an intermediate step for Sheldon and Amy. As in the "The Spoiler Alert Segmentation" it would make sense for Amy to replace Leonard. Amy was not suggesting that they share a bed, just an apartment. Amy has her room, and Sheldon his. It is an intermediate step to intimacy.

I don't see why constructing a new apartment is such an expense for the #2 television show. Money they have. If Leonard and Penny move to a new place, they just tear out Penny's apartment. They already juggle five apartment/house structures. I'm sure they could work something out. But the best solution is switching Penny and Sheldon.

[Nogravitasatall]

@hamerman55, how much does it take for that poor fellow to get the idea that he can escape. He tried once, but the crazy sucked him right back in. He tried again then his love wasn't ready for him. They have to let him reach escape velocity. But to quote Stephen Hawking: "What does Sheldon Cooper and a black hole have in common?... "

(Cait et al: Of course I love Sheldon too, but seriously...).

Edited May 24, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[SRAM]

Eirwinrommel, I'm not yet convinced that Penny would surrender her sovereignty. Its a practical solution, but maybe not acceptable. She loses her autonomy. Of course, she could give it up voluntarily, but then you are back to Sheldon and that question.

I think we are at the point where Penny would give up some of her independence for Leonard. We know she loves him and she is really going to miss him while he is gone, so it makes sense that she will want to keep him close when he comes back. This trip of Leonard's is the perfect catalyst for Penny wanting Leonard to movme in with her, when he comes back. It would also open the show to more comedy as Penny and Leonard adjust to domestic life together. I could actually see Leonard running to Sheldon's apartment after a fight with Penny.

Also Amy could move in with Sheldon, it would actually be perfect, since they would have their own rooms, so their relationship can basically remain unchanged. It would sort of be like that old TV sitcom, 3's Company, where the girls live with the guy but there is no sex. It would then give Penny someplace to go when she is mad at Leonard, because Amy would be across the hall to talk to, after all they are Besties. I could also see Penny sending Leonard over there to play with Sheldon, when she needs to be alone.

I think the writers could get a lot of good comedy out of L/P together and S/ A together, across the hall, and still stall out the movement of the S/A relationship for a while.

[banshee826]

Leonard and Penny will get married in the series finale - not sooner

[Guitars1964]

Leonard and Penny will get married in the series finale - not sooner

 

Maybe, but not sure that it will take that long.  We'd be talking a minimum of 2 more years (end of Season .  Closest parallel show is "Friends" which I didn't follow as closely - did it take 8, 9 or 10 years for the big marriages to happen there?  We'd probably all guess, at this point, that TBBT is shooting for 10 year run +/-, and that would mean 4 more years.  I really wonder if that needs to be the case in order to preserve viewer interest.

 

Of course, L&P moving in together would be a concession in terms of a declaration of commitment.

 

I still think there might grow some viewer sentiment of, enough already, get married, long before Season 10 rolls around.

 

We'll see.

[Oldnavy]

Leonard really is the center of the group and without him Sheldon would still be living in a barren apartment with no friends.  We really do not know how many roommates he went through before Leonard showed up.  We have seen one and the message that was left on wall in what would be Leonard's room was pretty clear how he felt about him.  I think Leonard does consider Sheldon to be a friend but his patience seems to be running out. 

 

Leonard is just waiting for Penny to come around about marriage.  Also, with this time spent in the North Sea, Leonard has an opportunity to surpass Sheldon professionally, as well possibly received some positive recognition from his mother.  IMO Leonard is getting to a point of wanting to move on with his life.  The missing piece is Penny. 

Edited May 24, 2013 by Oldnavy

[Oldnavy]

Maybe, but not sure that it will take that long.  We'd be talking a minimum of 2 more years (end of Season .  Closest parallel show is "Friends" which I didn't follow as closely - did it take 8, 9 or 10 years for the big marriages to happen there?  We'd probably all guess, at this point, that TBBT is shooting for 10 year run +/-, and that would mean 4 more years.  I really wonder if that needs to be the case in order to preserve viewer interest.

 

Of course, L&P moving in together would be a concession in terms of a declaration of commitment.

 

I still think there might grow some viewer sentiment of, enough already, get married, long before Season 10 rolls around.

 

We'll see.

I agree with Guitars.  I do not know how much longer they can hold off on this.  Moving in together will help some but in order for the characters to grow at some point this has to happen.  The age of the characters in the show is important to note.  Penny was 22 when the show began and Leonard was 26 or 27.  This means that Penny is nearly 28 and Leonard is in his mid-30's.  People in this age category usually begin seriously looking at settling down, most do not want to live the single life forever. 

 

If the writers do anything negative with L/P to mess with the relationship like another break up, I think they run the risk of losing some of their audience.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Oldnavy

[Nogravitasatall]

I am fairly confident they won't regress the couple but I am either a skeptic or a cynic about how quickly they will consume story points over the remaining life of the show.

while they are not now being as surgically brutal as in the past they still have to pace it out. That said, maybe, and I can only allow this to myself as a maybe, they will proceed at a rational pace.

The reshuffle is a very good idea but they have fought tooth and nail for delay. They'd have to flip the paradigm and mess with the formula.eta they have cleared the decks in s6, so maybe its more likely.

It will be iffy until they contract for their final run and they know what timescale they are up against. Otherwise it will go off to whatever that special hell is called where over-extended shows end up.

funnily enough, studies have shown that calorie deficits help mice and humans live longer. It may be that this metaphorically applies to entertainment. Therefore the drip feed is a good thing in the long run, perhaps.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[eirwinrommel]

It also makes sense to switch Penny and Sheldon from a show canon standpoint. Leonard is the center of the group. Sheldon may have his spot, but the other guys come to see Leonard. Sheldon is tolerated. The only person who has ever gotten mad at Leonard is Penny, and actually for good reason. Partly it is the character of Leonard to not give offense, but also because he is the alpha male in the group. The layout of the main room bears this out. Leonard sits apart in his own chair, everyone else sits on the sofa or the floor in front of him. Penny now sits next to him in a smaller chair as the alpha female. Sheldon sits in the middle, but on the shared sofa and at a slightly lower level. Leonard doesn't have to turn his head to see anyone. I think we've seen some evidence to support this. Since Leonard has been eating over at Penny's a lot, there are fewer group meals. We haven't seen the others eating with Sheldon and Amy without Leonard.

One thing I don't recall anyone metioning is the idea that Leonard just might like Sheldon for no particular reason. Sheldon saving his life might have started it, but as has been mentioned, it wouldn't account for Leonard being with Sheldon all this time. While Sheldon does drive him crazy at times, in many respects, he is a good roommate. The bills get paid on time, they split expenses, they have similar work habits, they share a lot of interests, and have a routine down. I think about the Giant Jenga scene. Leonard came up with this crazy idea, and Sheldon was game to try it. Apparently they tried another Leonard idea, Tiny Twister, and it didn't go too well. But consider what that means. Leonard comes up with a flaky idea, and Sheldon is game to try it. That adds balance to the relationship that isn't often seen in the normal conflict scenarios in the show. They can clearly at this point afford their own places, but they choose not to, because ultimately they enjoy each other's company from time to time, and sharing expenses gives them more disposable income.

Sheldon also has found "his spot" in Penny's apartment too.

The best reason to keep Sheldon in the apartment instead of switching him with Penny is to leave an intermediate step for Sheldon and Amy. As in the "The Spoiler Alert Segmentation" it would make sense for Amy to replace Leonard. Amy was not suggesting that they share a bed, just an apartment. Amy has her room, and Sheldon his. It is an intermediate step to intimacy.

I don't see why constructing a new apartment is such an expense for the #2 television show. Money they have. If Leonard and Penny move to a new place, they just tear out Penny's apartment. They already juggle five apartment/house structures. I'm sure they could work something out. But the best solution is switching Penny and Sheldon.

You make some excellent points. One thing about moving L/P and replacing Penny's Apt. set is that they loose a reason to use the stairway and hall between 4a and 4b. I suppose they could move Amy or Raj over there, but it just wouldn't be the same as they don't go to their apt's nearly as much. As for giving Amy an in as Sheldon's room mate I'd think Sheldon would see that as a reason to switch, based on his reaction from this season. 

[ajond]

It also makes sense to switch Penny and Sheldon from a show canon standpoint. Leonard is the center of the group. Sheldon may have his spot, but the other guys come to see Leonard. Sheldon is tolerated. The only person who has ever gotten mad at Leonard is Penny, and actually for good reason. Partly it is the character of Leonard to not give offense, but also because he is the alpha male in the group. The layout of the main room bears this out. Leonard sits apart in his own chair, everyone else sits on the sofa or the floor in front of him. Penny now sits next to him in a smaller chair as the alpha female. Sheldon sits in the middle, but on the shared sofa and at a slightly lower level. Leonard doesn't have to turn his head to see anyone. I think we've seen some evidence to support this. Since Leonard has been eating over at Penny's a lot, there are fewer group meals. We haven't seen the others eating with Sheldon and Amy without Leonard.

One thing I don't recall anyone metioning is the idea that Leonard just might like Sheldon for no particular reason. Sheldon saving his life might have started it, but as has been mentioned, it wouldn't account for Leonard being with Sheldon all this time. While Sheldon does drive him crazy at times, in many respects, he is a good roommate. The bills get paid on time, they split expenses, they have similar work habits, they share a lot of interests, and have a routine down. I think about the Giant Jenga scene. Leonard came up with this crazy idea, and Sheldon was game to try it. Apparently they tried another Leonard idea, Tiny Twister, and it didn't go too well. But consider what that means. Leonard comes up with a flaky idea, and Sheldon is game to try it. That adds balance to the relationship that isn't often seen in the normal conflict scenarios in the show. They can clearly at this point afford their own places, but they choose not to, because ultimately they enjoy each other's company from time to time, and sharing expenses gives them more disposable income.

Sheldon also has found "his spot" in Penny's apartment too.

The best reason to keep Sheldon in the apartment instead of switching him with Penny is to leave an intermediate step for Sheldon and Amy. As in the "The Spoiler Alert Segmentation" it would make sense for Amy to replace Leonard. Amy was not suggesting that they share a bed, just an apartment. Amy has her room, and Sheldon his. It is an intermediate step to intimacy.

I don't see why constructing a new apartment is such an expense for the #2 television show. Money they have. If Leonard and Penny move to a new place, they just tear out Penny's apartment. They already juggle five apartment/house structures. I'm sure they could work something out. But the best solution is switching Penny and Sheldon.

 

The switch is far and away the best solution. I don't see a downside at all. The dynamics of the group remains and I'm sure P&L would save Sheldon's spot for him.

[Nogravitasatall]

The switch is far and away the best solution. I don't see a downside at all. The dynamics of the group remains and I'm sure P&L would save Sheldon's spot for him.

They just have to persuade Penny. That's the real obstacle.

[hamerman55]

@hamerman55, how much does it take for that poor fellow to get the idea that he can escape. He tried once, but the crazy sucked him right back in. He tried again then his love wasn't ready for him. They have to let him reach escape velocity. But to quote Stephen Hawking: "What does Sheldon Cooper and a black hole have in common?... "

(Cait et al: Of course I love Sheldon too, but seriously...).

I agree he should have moved out before, but I believe that what has held him the past year or so was proximity to Penny. If Priya had stayed in the States and their relationship developed at all, I think Leonard would have moved out. He basically did in "The Roommate Transmogrification". Having a sleepover relationship with Sheldon and the infernal roommate agreement just doesn't work. I find it interesting that Sheldon has not insisted on instituting the Penny-specific addenda to the Roommate Agreement he wrote in "The Boyfriend Complexity". He was all over adding whole new sections when he thought Leonard and Penny were back together. I wonder if Sheldon is figuring out that he can't push Leonard much at all without him leaving. If anything, the Roommate agreement has been liberalized. Certainly he has made no fuss about Penny being around, although they do sleep at her place exclusively now. But yeah, he needs to move out, even if just across the hall.

[hamerman55]

They just have to persuade Penny. That's the real obstacle.

I believe that this is the major Leonard and Penny issue to deal with in Season 7. We got a good look at the problem in "The Bon Voyage Reaction". Bernie points out that she and Howard got married prior to him going to space to help their relationship during his absence. Leonard looks quizzically at Penny, and she shuts it down. Clearly, the commitment issue is still there and fully active. We have no real information as to why this is such a problem for her, although there has been much speculation on the forum. If they drag this out beyond Leonard's return from the North Sea, we really need an explanation as to why Penny is so damn reluctant to marry Leonard, even though she admits that is what she figures will happen in the future. When she talked about her feelings about it in "The Tangible Affection Proof", it sounded like she viewed getting married as an unavoidable inevitability, as a opposed to a desired goal. Weird. We need an explanation for this.

[hamerman55]

If L/P move in together she's going to loose her 'sovereignty' at some point. The mere act of Leonard moving in to 'her' Apt. (4b) means she'll be giving some of it up. In any case Penny's going to loose some 'sovereignty'. If they move into another Apt. (where ever it is) they will have a co-dominion from the beginning instead of an eventual one when/if they move into either 4a or 4b.

Switching Penny and Sheldon causes the least disruption for the show (no new sets needed), for Sheldon (just move across the hall, find a new spot, change address from 4a to 4b, L/P still there to whine to) and L/P (won't have to move all their stuff down four flights of stairs, I don't know how often you've had to move but moving is a big pain so the easier the better)

There are two ways that they could move in that wouldn't require a lot of fuss and confrontation. One would be if Penny just up and moved Leonard over piece by piece, the other is the stealth move after Leonard returns. @tensor wrote an excellent fan fic about it here http://m.fanfiction.net/s/9233728/1/The-Cohabitation-Reversal

I believe he's working the first idea too. I'll be interested to read that when its ready. Either Penny just decides over the four months that she needs Leonard around her all the time, and presents him with a fait accompli, or they follow the idea in @tensor's fan fic. It may be that Penny is afraid of the direct confrontation and discussion. 

[Oldnavy]

There are two ways that they could move in that wouldn't require a lot of fuss and confrontation. One would be if Penny just up and moved Leonard over piece by piece, the other is the stealth move after Leonard returns. @tensor wrote an excellent fan fic about it here http://m.fanfiction.net/s/9233728/1/The-Cohabitation-Reversal

I believe he's working the first idea too. I'll be interested to read that when its ready. Either Penny just decides over the four months that she needs Leonard around her all the time, and presents him with a fait accompli, or they follow the idea in @tensor's fan fic. It may be that Penny is afraid of the direct confrontation and discussion. 

I liked Tensor's story.  In a way it was kind of like Penny's original ILY to Leonard.  She was struggling with her feelings for him then, though from listening to the dialogue between her and the other girls in 6x2, it sounded more like confusion over her love for Leonard.  In 6x8 when she reveals her love for him it was IMO more than just a surprise but a realization of the truth about how she has felt about him for quite sometime.  I believe she was struggling with these feelings in season 4 when she could never let go of him.  I do agree with hammerman that at some point hopefully in season 7 we will get some explanation for why Penny is afraid of commitment.

 

Getting back to Tensor's story the only thing that I would like to see added is something that someone else suggested earlier and that is that Leonard's stuff, his clothes, shoes etc... being in her apartment would be there because she was the one who was slowly moving his stuff over while he was in the North Sea.

[Nogravitasatall]

Quick, someone talk about science! Lol

[Tensor]

I liked Tensor's story.  In a way it was kind of like Penny's original ILY to Leonard.  She was struggling with her feelings for him then, though from listening to the dialogue between her and the other girls in 6x2, it sounded more like confusion over her love for Leonard.  In 6x8 when she reveals her love for him it was IMO more than just a surprise but a realization of the truth about how she has felt about him for quite sometime.

 

Thank you, although I feel like a chimp compared to some of the stories I've read.  It is a call back to when Penny points out that Dr Stephanie moved in.  The episode is "The Vartabedian Cunundrum"  season 2 episode 10.

 

I believe she was struggling with these feelings in season 4 when she could never let go of him.  I do agree with hammerman that at some point hopefully in season 7 we will get some explanation for why Penny is afraid of commitment.

 

I've been wanting that, also.  I've been working on a much longer story to explain it.  

 

Getting back to Tensor's story the only thing that I would like to see added is something that someone else suggested earlier and that is that Leonard's stuff, his clothes, shoes etc... being in her apartment would be there because she was the one who was slowly moving his stuff over while he was in the North Sea.

 

That's the new one, when I'm done with the current story I'm working on.

[Tensor]

Quick, someone talk about science! Lol

The metric tensor is the geometrical object that is used to define distance for each direction on the manifold. The Stress-Energy tensor is a measure of the energy, found in the time-time component and the pressure as defined by the momentum flowing through a given volume. This Tensor couples to the Curvature tensor to define the curvature of a manifold, this produce what we call gravity. Is that enough science?

[Nogravitasatall]

The metric tensor is the geometrical object that is used to define distance for each direction on the manifold. The Stress-Energy tensor is a measure of the energy, found in the time-time component and the pressure as defined by the momentum flowing through a given volume. This Tensor couples to the Curvature tensor to define the curvature of a manifold, this produce what we call gravity. Is that enough science?

"I'm just a blonde chimp to you..." .

[ArmyGirl]

Leonard and Penny will get married in the series finale - not sooner

 

 

Who knows what the writers have plan.  I don't think they even know and the fans definitely don't.  Heck it took them freaking six years to pen Penny saying ILY to Leonard and which only came out during an arguement.  I'm sure Leonard wants a wife, children, and a home long before he gets to old to enjoy them.  Also Penny isn't getting any younger either.

[ArmyGirl]

Eirwinrommel, I'm not yet convinced that Penny would surrender her sovereignty. Its a practical solution, but maybe not acceptable. She loses her autonomy. Of course, she could give it up voluntarily, but then you are back to Sheldon and that question.

 

At what point will the writers finally have Penny sacrificed something to move the Lenny relationship forward.  Penny gets to dictate almost everthing that happens be it marriage, when they get to live together, even to the point of what they do and see in the relationship.  Will it take Penny another six years to do anything that will help the relationship along?  Heck, it only took six years for her tell Leonard she loved him.  Penny isn't some young twentysomething anymore she is now closer to thirty and she needs to act like it.

 

So we  have to ask what does Penny bring to the relationship?  When does Penny compromise and finally give up something she loves.  Isn't that what relationship's are about? Heck isn't that what life is about?  Giving and taking, sacrificing, compromising is how much of life works. 

 

As for the Sheldon question.... when does Leonard get to be free and enjoy his life?  I mean is it really Leonard's responsibility to hand hold Sheldon through every situation in life?  When does Sheldon get to put on his big boy pants and step up to the plate and assume responsibility for his own life wants and needs?

Edited May 25, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[Tensor]

"I'm just a blonde chimp to you..." .

If we start dicussing this, feel free to paint your nails.

[ArmyGirl]

I truely think the writers lost focus in this show. The original plot was about Leonard and Penny and they turned it into the Sheldon show, so now that someone thought Sheldon needed a girlfriend, they added Amy and wrote themselves into a corner. They can't move Shamy along because that would make Sheldon normal and ruin the Sheldon show. So now we see stupid and mean things he does to her so they can have excuses for him to not move forward with their relationship. They are trying to make their whole show about Sheldon and there is only so far that you can take crazy.

 

You know I thought I was the only one that saw how the writers almost killed the show with the (aka the Sheldon show). I loss a lot of my enjoyment with TBBT when we finally got Lenny in season 3 only for it to fodder for Sheldon to crap all over and I will admit it made me not like the character Sheldon as much as seasons one and two.

 

Now Leonard and Penny to some extent are stuck basically from any really movement due to being handcuffed to the Sheldon characrter. In the first two season there was at least some freedom of movements for Leonard, Penny, and Lenny.