Ship Zone Leonard And Penny Shippers Thread (Possible Spoilers)

[leonardandalex]

Sheldon is shelfish and spoiled....when he and Amy broke up he got cats because he was longing for the companionship he formed with Amy.  I'm sure if Leonard up and moved out Sheldon would be a basket case....does mean he's hot for Leonard. 

 

A lot of people are uncomfortable with contract, but Sheldon has never even kissed a girl outside of his mother and sister.  this is not someone who is just suffering from being uncomfortable around other people....this is a man with no sexual desire towards women or men....at all.

 

For goodness sakes he was fondling Penny's breast and had no clue what it was.  No reaction.  No nothing.  Yes, he did peek at her tattoo....but as he said "the hero always peeks".  He did it because he thinks that what hero's do...it had nothing to do with sexual attraction.

 

Making Sheldon succumb to a sexual relationship to Amy is uncomfortable to watch....sappy relationship types should be happy with Penny and Leonard and stop calling for the writers to screw up Sheldon's character.

[Zhalen565]

ArmyGirl,

 

Agree totally re episode with Raj and Penny.  I can't watch it in re-runs!  And if the writers can't come up with good scripts that do not require L&P to break up again, then it would time for writers to hang it up.

Totally agree, I always make a point of missing that finale. Raj always appears to milk every situation to his own advantage or to the detriment of others. I wouldn't trust him an inch.

[eirwinrommel]

I don't know what you mean by evidence. How can there be no evidence? Sheldon has been changed to include the possibility but this an alteration to who he was, this last season. What evidence do you have the Sheldon was sexual prior to S6?

The evidence is that Sheldon was/is aware of sex. It's just that he has no interest in it (at least prior to meeting Amy. The only person he's displayed any potential interest in is Amy). Sheldon has on prior occasions turned down opportunities to have sex.

 

Season 1 episode 8

 

Leonard: Hold on. What happened with you and Lalita?

Sheldon: We ate. She lectured me on the link between gum disease and heart attacks, nothing I didn’t already know, and I came home.

Leonard: So you’re not going to see her again?

Sheldon: Why would I see her again? I already have a dentist. (Exits)

Leonard: I wonder who’s going to tell his parents they’re not having grandchildren.

 

 

Season 3 episode 12

 

Martha: Flatland is more than just a mathematical essay. It is also a treatise on Victorian social mores.

Sheldon: You know, I had never considered that. Wow, that’s going to completely change my visits there. Well, it’s late.

Martha: Uh-huh.

Sheldon: Time for bed.

Martha: Okay.

Sheldon: Good night, puny human! (He gets up and leaves).

Scene: Outside Sheldon’s bedroom.

Martha: Sheldon?

Sheldon: Yes?

Martha: Listen, they’re kind of getting busy in the living room, and I was wondering if I could hang out in here for a while.

Sheldon: Well, I suppose. Come in. I’ll sleep in Leonard’s room. Good night.

 

Sheldon had an obviously willing woman (a woman who, lets admit it, was more attractive than Amy) in his bedroom, sitting on his bed, and he still left her alone to sleep in Leonard's bed.

 

Not to mention most of his relationship with Amy. If Sheldon wanted to get some he's had opportunities.

Edited June 4, 2013 by eirwinrommel

[menamena]

I'm sorry but I think we are just splitting hairs, S6? S5? From my point of view, this is a new element to this character. I also don't think jealousy means sexual arousal either. Sheldon's affection for Amy was built on other things and he hated to share the people he cares for. I don't know how far they will take the physical side but for me, there was plenty of evidence to believe that Sheldon had no deal prior to her introduction. Sexual arousal is something they have no yet to write for this character. I just don't think it's necessarily true to say there is no evidence of been asexual. It's a possibility.

I see where you are coming from. To me, it's like Schroedinger's cat. Since the show never conclusively defined Sheldon's sexuality - He was both asexual and not asexual in the past few seasons until Amy came in. With Amy's introduction, the show finally opened that box and we found out that Sheldon was not asexual but simply had not found the right person. This made sense to me, given that for Sheldon the attraction to Amy was not the issue - it was his germopobia and discomfort with standard physical contact. We have seen him pine for Amy, particularly in the launch acceleration where he imagines her naked shoulder.

Re: Lenny breaking up. This would be a horrible idea especially given how far Lenny has come along this season. Also, this season proved the amount of comedy the writers can mine if the Lenny are written right. That said, I wouldn't want them to be relegated to Howardette status because I do think howardette have gotten boring and neglected this season. I think the fact that Lenny are so different is enough to introduce small tensions in the relationship which they did with Alex's introduction and Penny's community college friend.

PS: Lenny's I'm sorry for hijacking the thread to talk about Shamy in the beginning. I just had to give my opinions on the discussion at hand.

Edited June 4, 2013 by menamena

[5Mississippis]

I think he's being a bit facetious.

 

Drat! 

[Zhalen565]

Drat!

We can live in hope.

[Tensor]

I'm sorry but I think we are just splitting hairs, S6? S5? From my point of view, this is a new element to this character.

That doesn't mean that the character was asexual prior to that, just that the person isn't reacting to any particular person of the gender they prefer.

 

I also don't think jealousy means sexual arousal either. Sheldon's affection for Amy was built on other things and he hated to share the people he cares for.

I didn't say jealousy means sexual arousal. I said not becoming jealous until the sexual component is added indicates the person is not asexual. In "Spittoon", he didn't care that Amy was going out with Stuart. But he wants to know why everyone is so concerned about whether or not Amy and Stuart are having lattes and intercourse. While others mentioned lattes, Sheldon is the only one who mentioned intercourse. He was the only one that mentioned intercourse, which means he was the only one worried about. And, if he's asexual, there's no reason for him to worry about it. In "Groin", Sheldon was unconcerned about the wedding Amy and Leonard attended, as a matter of fact, he was all happy explaining his new N gauge train, until he thought something sexual happened between Amy and Leonard. If his thoughts concerning Amy were asexual, why care what happened between them the night before, since that doesn't affect him sharing Amy?

 

I don't know how far they will take the physical side but for me, there was plenty of evidence to believe that Sheldon had no deal prior to her introduction.

Again, this just means that he hadn't found anyone that aroused him sexually, not that he's asexual.

 

Sexual arousal is something they have no yet to write for this character. I just don't think it's necessarily true to say there is no evidence of been asexual. It's a possibility.

He's thought about it and has acted it out. Which simply means he's not asexual. If he was truly asexual, he wouldn't have bothered to act it out.

[phantagrae]

I'm sorry but I think we are just splitting hairs, S6? S5? From my point of view, this is a new element to this character. I also don't think jealousy means sexual arousal either. Sheldon's affection for Amy was built on other things and he hated to share the people he cares for. I don't know how far they will take the physical side but for me, there was plenty of evidence to believe that Sheldon had no deal prior to her introduction. Sexual arousal is something they have no yet to write for this character. I just don't think it's necessarily true to say there is no evidence of been asexual. It's a possibility.

 

Just as Sheldon has never been labeled as Autistic, he's never been labeled as Asexual.

People may interpret his actions a certain way, but there's been no statement to verify either "diagnosis" by the audience.  As a matter of fact, the writers have specifically refused to label Sheldon.

 

But they have said that he's a person who has simply "opted out" of the game--which means, to me, that he can choose to opt in when the time comes.

His focus has always been on science, but he'd also never met any woman who interested him enough to think about anything else.

And he obviously knows that his genitals are functional...

 

One of the reasons his relationship with Amy has progressed at the show rate it has is that he's only slowly coming around to the idea of love and physical affection.  His issues with physical intimacy have to do with his germ and touch phobias, not any lack of desire, or the beginnings of desire.

Just like an adolescent boy who's just discovering girls isn't usually ready to jump in the sack (I would hope!), Sheldon is still stuck in that adolescent stage where he knows he really likes Amy, enough to have those territorial caveman responses to other men coming around her, but because of his other issues, it's taking him a while to figure out what to do with himself.

 

Oh, and on a related note--if Sheldon's such a committed asexual, then how is he ever going to have a relationship with Penny???

[phantagrae]

I agree with you about Raj and Penny, I don't like seeing her together with him alone. The problem with them sleeping with each other was that she had just told him she screwed up with Leonard and still cared for him, making it obvious she would have never slept with Raj, so he definitely to advantage of her drunkeness and depression over Leonard. That was not being a friend to either of them.

BTW Shennies are everywhere, they are the dark side of the force.

 

I can't imagine that Raj was the one to suggest they sleep together, even if they were both drunk.  Penny's a big ol' five.  The way it looked to me, she was regretting having broken up with Leonard, but as far as she knew, he was now committed to Priya--they were basically living together at Raj's.  So she gets really drunk and decides to console herself with Raj, and of course, he's not about to pass that up.

That he actually thought that she had fallen in love with him (as he thought he had fallen in love with her) says to me that he didn't take advantage of her just for sex or just because she was drunk and lonely.

If anything, she took advantage of him (because she was drunk and lonely.)  Raj was a substitute for Leonard in that moment.

 

Thankfully, they didn't actually do it.

 

While I don't think it was the best thing for either charcter, fortunately it wasn't a deal-breaker for either of them.  While Leonard was understandably upset, still, he doesn't really have the right to say who either of them could sleep with.  Though he had always liked Penny, he was with Priya--even to the point that when she went back to India, he wanted to continue the relationship.  So, whether it was Raj or some random guy from somewhere else, it's not his call to make.

What if Raj and Penny hadn't gotten together that night, but had started dating instead?  Would Leonard have the right to forbid them to date?

 

Anyway, I've always been rooting for Leonard and Penny to live happily ever after together, and I hated that Leonard was dating Priya and that Penny was forced to keep her distance, but I saw the night with Raj as another bump along the way for all of them.

I don't think it destroys the character of Raj because I don't think it was his idea.  If anything, it makes Penny look bad.  But I still understand why she got to that point.  Perhaps the idea of Leonard and Priya basically living together was the thing that pushed her over the edge and made her want to do something to put it out of her mind--and Raj was handy and available.

 

Nonetheless, I love that Leonard and Penny are on solid ground.  I don't think that the writers have any intention of going back down the break-up path.  I think that any ups and downs they may have from now on will be about normal relationship things.

[phantagrae]

I'll go and get my S armband.

 

Oh please.

That comment is not only ridiculously overly melodramatic, but it's also very disrespectful and insulting.

[Tensor]

I can't imagine that Raj was the one to suggest they sleep together, even if they were both drunk.  Penny's a big ol' five. 

Snip....

Nonetheless, I love that Leonard and Penny are on solid ground.  I don't think that the writers have any intention of going back down the break-up path.  I think that any ups and downs they may have from now on will be about normal relationship things.

I would love to weigh in on this here, but if I do, I'll spoil some things....

[phantagrae]

I would love to weigh in on this here, but if I do, I'll spoil some things....

 

Oh...???

 

ETA: Oh, I forgot you were writing a story!  DOH!

Edited June 4, 2013 by phantagrae

[SRAM]

I would love to weigh in on this here, but if I do, I'll spoil some things....

Alright you can't just say those things, then leave us hanging.

[Nogravitasatall]

We can live in hope.

Until Tensor spills the beans (lol). Unless he's just got hold of a furphy.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[ArmyGirl]

I would love to weigh in on this here, but if I do, I'll spoil some things....

 

Tensor,

 

I hope you don't make it all Leonard's fault.  Something you put in chapter 5 made wonder if that is the route going.  I guess I am just sick of everyone blaming Leonard for the things Penny and other characters do.

[Nogravitasatall]

Stone the flamin' crows, I have enough trouble just following the show (and typing). Now I've got start trackin' ff. lol.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[Nogravitasatall]

ArmyGirl,

Agree totally re episode with Raj and Penny. I can't watch it in re-runs! And if the writers can't come up with good scripts that do not require L&P to break up again, then it would time for writers to hang it up.

To me this is one of the things that helped distinguish this program. I'm not saying it was in anyway immediately uplifting, but it certainly adrenalised the show. And it wasn't violent or involve any thing blowing up and nobody had to leave. And in the long run they redeemed themselves. Maybe all that strains credulity but what's more fantastical, the redemption or the shows premise?

When they ran this the show went up in my regard. But they can't pull it off again. Rule of three

"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice:

That alone should encourage the crew.

Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice:

What i tell you three times is true."

The Hunting of the Snark

Lewis Carroll

So they can't do it again unless they kill the core of the show.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[phantagrae]

To me this is one of the things that helped distinguish this program. I'm not saying it was in anyway immediately uplifting, but it certainly adrenalised the show. And it wasn't violent or involve any thing blowing up and nobody had to leave. And in the long run they redeemed themselves. Maybe all that strains credulity but what's more fantastical, the redemption or the shows premise?

When they ran this the show went up in my regard. But they can't pull it off again. Rule of three

"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice:

That alone should encourage the crew.

Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice:

What i tell you three times is true."

The Hunting of the Snark

Lewis Carroll

So they can't do it again unless they kill the core of the show.

 

More to the point, I don't think they have the desire to do it.

[ArmyGirl]

ArmyGirl,

 

Agree totally re episode with Raj and Penny.  I can't watch it in re-runs!  And if the writers can't come up with good scripts that do not require L&P to break up again, then it would time for writers to hang it up.

 

I know what you mean Guitars1964.  The other day I had TBBT playing in the background (on the tv) while cleaning and The Wheaton Recurrence was playing and I can't believe how upset I still get today over the way Penny dumped Leonard.  I had to change the channel.  I don't watch The Wheaton Recurrence or The Roommate Transmogrification, due both episodes remaining me how much I started to dislike Penny. Penny was always my second favorite as Leonard is my first.

 

The writers can come up with something for Lenny without breaking them up.  It's just a matter of if they are willing to put in the time and effort.  I know they have no problem coming up with storylines for Shamy, now we will have to wait and see if they will do the same for Lenny.

[ArmyGirl]

To me this is one of the things that helped distinguish this program. I'm not saying it was in anyway immediately uplifting, but it certainly adrenalised the show. And it wasn't violent or involve any thing blowing up and nobody had to leave. And in the long run they  themselves. Maybe all that strains credulity but what's more fantastical, the redemption or the shows premise?

When they ran this the show went up in my regard. But they can't pull it off again. Rule of three

"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice:

That alone should encourage the crew.

Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice:

What i tell you three times is true."

The Hunting of the Snark

Lewis Carroll

So they can't do it again unless they kill the core of the show.

 

You can't say Lorre and company won't pull some vile crap like that again. You can hope they don't, you can wish they don't.... they hold all the cards.

 

Also they crap all over us once and I will never let my guard down again where they are concern. 

 

 

eta:  Where and how was Penny and Raj redeemed?  I know they threw some garbage at us and the swept it under the rub (see the big lump). Yet, they still had Raj talking about it all the way into The Santa Simulation.  I know they wanted us to forget it .... I haven't nor will ever!  

 

For me they did alot damage to the character Penny and didn't have the ball$ to make it right.

Edited June 4, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[Nogravitasatall]

More to the point, I don't think they have the desire to do it.

Sure, but even if they wanted to, they couldn't. Unless they choose to kill the golden goose. Or a character. (ETA. Or degrade, impair or make the show much less likable by destroying ANY hope for LP)

@army girl, for me the characters have reached an agreement. I see no simmering hostilities between Raj, Penny and Leonard. If they got over it I can get over it. Is all. I trust Raj as far as I could comfortably spit a rat, but Penny and Leonard are good with him.

And what would make it right? It's a sitcom? They generally don't do revenge. ETA when I think that's what S6 has been all about. Making it right, but in a positive way.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[ArmyGirl]

Sure, but even if they wanted to, they couldn't. Unless they choose to kill the golden goose. Or a character.

@army girl, for me the characters have reached an agreement. I see no simmering hostilities between Raj, Penny and Leonard. If they got over it I can get over it. Is all. I trust Raj as far as I could comfortably spit a rat, but Penny and Leonard are good with him.

And what would make it right? It's a sitcom? They generally don't do revenge.

 

I read quite few posts that Raj was getting revenge on Leonard for being involved with Priya.  So did the writers intend for it to be seen as revenge as you say it's a sitcom. 

 

I won't lie I don't trust Raj around any of the guys girlfriends or wife.  I have to also say that I still have some mistrust when it comes to Penny.  As I stated in another thread when Penny turned up at Raj door, a group of my friends and I were very nervous about what could happen and we basically held our breathe and was thankful that Penny hadn't been drinking.  The writers causes some of us viewers to have this problem and it will take a while, if ever to get pass it.  You can't do something crazy like Penny/Raj and expect everyone to be okay with it.

 

eta:  as for the understanding between Leonard, Penny, Raj of course the writers had to pen it that way.  They messed up royally and got a lot of backlash about it.  So what else were they going to have the characters do?

Edited June 4, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[hamerman55]

Totally agree, I always make a point of missing that finale. Raj always appears to milk every situation to his own advantage or to the detriment of others. I wouldn't trust him an inch.

Me too. Even from the first season.

[Nogravitasatall]

@armygirl, Cool. I think its a terrific device to drive engagement. I was on tenterhooks all hiatus, wondering how they were going to pull back on course. It took them till now to get back to where S3 ended and now we have 3 extra seasons in the can. Yay. But I just can't see them running the same gag three times.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[phantagrae]

I don't think Raj is untrustworthy.  Whatever he feels, he feels--just as Leonard harbored feelings for Penny while she was going out with other guys, and he slept with Priya behind Raj's back, and he wanted to cheat on Priya, even as he said he and Priya were in love and might get married.

 

Raj is lonely and is too eager to interpret kindness or general affection as possible love.  But it's not as if he made passes at anyone.  His fantasies about Bernie were only fantasies.  He wasn't asking her out or hitting on her.  The closest he came was that one little conversation when he was hoping a breakup was coming.

If Howard and Bernie had broken up would he have had the courage to actually ask her out?  Maybe, maybe not.

And with Penny, I don't think he had any real intentions toward her until that night when they were both drunk.  The only other time he hinted at it was in the Griffen Equivalency, when she went out with him to the People party and he was kind of imagining their night out as a date.  But he didn't pursue it.  He suggested it, but it's not like he followed up on anything after that night.  He even went to her place to apologize.

 

I think that in the case of their night of almost-sex, she's the one who took advantage of him.

 

But as Jim said about how the others react to Sheldon--the way the characters react toward each other is ultimately showing the audience how they feel, and thus how the audience should understand their relationships.  The same can be said about how they all reacted to Raj and Penny.  If Leonard was really mad about what happened, how come he never ragged on Penny about it?  He felt betrayed by Raj, but not betrayed by Penny?  And in the end, he obviously forgave Raj--and Penny, apparently.

So, if he can let it go, and the other characters can, too, then I think that's a signal for the audience that all is good between the members of the gang.

 

And because they have been able to forgive and move forward, I think the audience ought to be able to move on as well.

JMO.