Ship Zone Leonard And Penny Shippers Thread (Possible Spoilers)

[Nogravitasatall]

I read quite few posts that Raj was getting revenge on Leonard for being involved with Priya.  So did the writers intend for it to be seen as revenge as you say it's a sitcom. 

 

I won't lie I don't trust Raj around any of the guys girlfriends or wife.  I have to also say that I still have some mistrust when it comes to Penny. 

I don't think Raj had any intent when he sat down to dinner with Penny. They were both lonely and sad and drunk. It's the lack of intent that means it was not plotted revenge. They were both vulnerable and people do stupid things in those conditions. I think you can read it as revenge circumstantially, but that's after the fact. The writers may have had that in mind, but it was never flagged as motivated by ill intent on screen, so I can let it go.

If the writers can't persuade you about Penny then I can't, but I think she is mrs hofstader pretty much now.

[Tensor]

If the writers can't persuade you about Penny then I can't, but I think she is mrs hofstader pretty much now.

Nahhhhhh, she can't be. If that was the case, we'd know her last name....Hofstader.

[ArmyGirl]

I don't think Raj had any intent when he sat down to dinner with Penny. They were both lonely and sad and drunk. It's the lack of intent that means it was not plotted revenge. They were both vulnerable and people do stupid things in those conditions. I think you can read it as revenge circumstantially, but that's after the fact. The writers may have had that in mind, but it was never flagged as motivated by ill intent on screen, so I can let it go.

If the writers can't persuade you about Penny then I can't, but I think she is mrs hofstader pretty much now.

 

Ref:  I still love Penny and want her happy but it doesn't mean that I will turn a blind eye to what played out on screen.  It's like when someone hurt you in real life you don't ever forget and you are always on guard.  As I stated before I have invested a lot into Leonard, Penny and Lenny and I want them and their relationship protect from the writers poison pen.  Season Six helped and I hope Season Seven continues moving Penny forward and no repeats of Raj-gate or any other gate.  Let Lenny be happy and I will be happy too.

 

I am glad some of you feel Raj is a good guy, I don't see it to many example of him not being a good guy.

Edited June 4, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[ArmyGirl]

Nahhhhhh, she can't be. If that was the case, we'd know her last name....Hofstader.

 

  Well she maybe at the end of the series.

[Guitars1964]

Ref:  I still love Penny and want her happy but it doesn't mean that I will turn a blind eye to what played out on screen.  It's like when someone hurt you in real life you don't ever forget and you are always on guard.  As I stated before I have invested a lot into Leonard, Penny and Lenny and I want them and their relationship protect from the writers poison pen.  Season Six helped and I hope Season Seven continues moving Penny forward and no repeats of Raj-gate or any other gate.  Let Lenny be happy and I will be happy too.

 

I'm with you, ArmyGirl.  The writers have spent a lot of time and effort helping us become fully invested in these characters.  If they decide to screw with that and trash it again, I may head for the exit.

 

Hmmm... just thinking - I've put up with too much of that in my real life to tolerate it in my TV fiction (ha!).

[Nogravitasatall]

Oh I want rainbows and unicorns. I just can't get mad at the folks who have delighted me so much, so far. And its their show. I can only trust them with its custody or ignore it altogether and chase something else. But this has been a show that hits so many marks for me, real or just irrationally aspirational, that it would be hard to let go. So I guess I'm saying my standards are low.

[Nogravitasatall]

I don't think Raj is untrustworthy.

...

And because they have been able to forgive and move forward, I think the audience ought to be able to move on as well.

JMO.

He's just a dude, not a holy man. Drunk, welcoming Penny would test a saint. Until Raj gets some of his own lovin', he's always going to be a bit covetous of what he hasn't got. Not saying he is malicious, just that he was opportunistic. And why not. Nobody broke any covenants that fateful eve. But we will never know all the details until someone leaks that tape (lol).

So I think Penny can be comfortable in his company, because there is no ambiguity in her current situation and we can be comfortable too. Raj 2.0 might also find his own lawns to mow and I can rethink my spontaneous reaction. If he ever reverts then he's done, but I don't think he will.

One thing about this show is that they do grow the characters. This is a detriment to some viewers and a pleasure for others.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[phantagrae]

He's just a dude, not a holy man. Drunk, welcoming Penny would test a saint. Until Raj gets some of his own lovin', he's always going to be a bit covetous of what he hasn't got. Not saying he is malicious, just that he was opportunistic. And why not. Nobody broke any covenants that fateful eve. But we will never know all the details until someone leaks that tape (lol).

So I think Penny can be comfortable in his company, because there is no ambiguity in her current situation and we can be comfortable too. Raj 2.0 might also find his own lawns to mow and I can rethink my spontaneous reaction. If he ever reverts then he's done, but I don't think he will.

One thing about this show is that they do grow the characters. This is a detriment to some viewers and a pleasure for others.

 

I just watched the S3 finale, where Penny comes to Leonard's door drunk and talking about how she can no longer date idiots like Zach.  So what does she do?  She takes Leonard by the hand and takes him to the bedroom to have sex.  She's a big ol' five...

 

I don't think Raj is any kind of a predator or is at all interested in her.  His mention of his crushes on Penny and Bernie in the Santa episode were not indications that he's still carrying a torch for either of them.

 

I don't understand why people are so trepidatious, thinking that Raj is some kind of rapist, lurking in his apartment, waiting to get Penny alone so he can attack her or whatever.  Or thinking that Penny and Raj can't be alone together without suddenly jumping in the sack.  What evidence is there to support such fear?  Apart from her romantic relationship with Leonard, Penny's function among the gang's individual members is as a big sister or a sympathetic ear.  She kind of takes care of the boys (though Howard now has Bernie to do that for him.)

She's not on the verge of jumping in the sack with any of them and none of them are on the verge of jumping in the sack with her, just waiting for some moment alone together.

 

The Lenny has been on solid footing most of this season.  Even when they were having a little struggle, the truth has been that Penny loves Leonard, even when she struggles to say it, and Leonard loves Penny and no other.

I'm sure there will be little things that will come up, and maybe there will be insecurities or whatever, but the big questions have been answered and I don't think infidelity will ever be an issue (and it never was, really.)

 

I think they're in a happy place.  Though we don't know exactly what's going to happen with Leonard being gone, I don't think it's going to be negative in the relationship area.

[ArmyGirl]

..........

 

I don't understand why people are so trepidatious, thinking that Raj is some kind of rapist, lurking in his apartment, waiting to get Penny alone so he can attack her or whatever.  Or thinking that Penny and Raj can't be alone together without suddenly jumping in the sack.  What evidence is there to support such fear?  Apart from her romantic relationship with Leonard, Penny's function among the gang's individual members is as a big sister or a sympathetic ear.  She kind of takes care of the boys (though Howard now has Bernie to do that for him.)

 

She's not on the verge of jumping in the sack with any of them and none of them are on the verge of jumping in the sack with her, just waiting for some moment alone together.

 

The Lenny has been on solid footing most of this season.  Even when they were having a little struggle, the truth has been that Penny loves Leonard, even when she struggles to say it, and Leonard loves Penny and no other.

I'm sure there will be little things that will come up, and maybe there will be insecurities or whatever, but the big questions have been answered and I don't think infidelity will ever be an issue (and it never was, really.)

 

I think they're in a happy place.  Though we don't know exactly what's going to happen with Leonard being gone, I don't think it's going to be negative in the relationship area.

 

 

Of course most of us want Lenny to move forward and happy.  As I previous  stated, I hope the writers don't mess with them again and that I was happy for most part with Season Six and want more of the same in Season Seven.

 

As for us feeling nervous about Penny and Raj being alone in scenes especially while drinking.... why would we ever have those type of feelings or thoughts. Maybe it's due to Season Four Finale --- if they could do it once they can do it again.  If it is part of canon it can be discuss and worry about when it comes to Leonard, Penny, and Lenny.  We have four months with Leonard away to worry what's going to happen and if Lenny will be a protected couple like Shamy by the writers. Or will things head south again for them.

 

Final, none of us are sure that Lorre will never try crap like this again.  I do wonder if you have a direct line to the writers where they keep you informrd on the happenings for Leonard, Penny, and Lenny.

Edited June 5, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[vasu]

Penny is upset that Leonard is not gonna be back for few more months starts drinking...Raj as now is able to talk to girls , hits on more girls and gets rejected by all of them because of his jerkiness ...so he starts drinking...and somehow they are in the same room....

Next morning Raj and Penny wake in bed together and start freaking out....Penny says This did not happen do you understand..

Raj shakes his head noddingly

Penny says really still can't talk to me........ Oh Wait .... Now Raj can talk to girls....so no joke there......so this is not gonna happen again :D :D
 

[Nogravitasatall]

Of course most of us want Lenny to move forward and happy.  As I previous  stated, I hope the writers don't mess with them again and that I was happy for most part with Season Six and want more of the same in Season Seven.

 

As for us feeling nervous about Penny and Raj being alone in scenes especially while drinking.... why would we ever have those type of feelings or thoughts. Maybe it's due to Season Four Finale --- if they could do it once they can do it again.  If it is part of canon it can be discuss and worry about when it comes to Leonard, Penny, and Lenny.  We have four months with Leonard away to worry what's going to happen and if Lenny will be a protected couple like Shamy by the writers. Or will things head south again for them.

 

Final, none of us are sure that Lorre will never try crap like this again.  I do wonder if you have a direct line to the writers where they keep you informrd on the happenings for Leonard, Penny, and Lenny.

I guess no one has a line, it's just a choice about how to conceive the show's future, a little bit informed by the tendency of these entertainments to seek out novelty. We've seen Leonard break up after one date, we've seen Penny and Leonard break up after a longer run and we've seen Penny and and Raj get it on once (not an LP breakup, because they were free agents). Those three novel events played against the audience expectations and were exceedingly novel and affecting. They shouldn't do them again, because they won't be novel and won't be shocking.

They have arrived at S7 and now are carrying the weight of those earlier heavy events into what will be the final years of the series. They could just do more of the same, but it would be boring storytelling and you and guitars1964, at least, would leave the viewership and only pathetic addicts like myself would linger, sighing wistfully over the good old days. And that goes against the commercial purpose of the show.

Of course I could just be talking through my hat, or out of other regions. But I'm choosing to be expressly optimistic.

[Oldnavy]

I guess no one has a line, it's just a choice about how to conceive the show's future, a little bit informed by the tendency of these entertainments to seek out novelty. We've seen Leonard break up after one date, we've seen Penny and Leonard break up after a longer run and we've seen Penny and and Raj get it on once (not an LP breakup, because they were free agents). Those three novel events played against the audience expectations and were exceedingly novel and affecting. They shouldn't do them again, because they won't be novel and won't be shocking.

They have arrived at S7 and now are carrying the weight of those earlier heavy events into what will be the final years of the series. They could just do more of the same, but it would be boring storytelling and you and guitars1964, at least, would leave the viewership and only pathetic addicts like myself would linger, sighing wistfully over the good old days. And that goes against the commercial purpose of the show.

Of course I could just be talking through my hat, or out of other regions. But I'm choosing to be expressly optimistic.

I agree that for the writers to go back and do anything negative with L/P, like what they did with Raj and Penny, which I did not find to be funny, after all of the progress that was made this season then IMO it can only hurt the story and drive away viewers.   

 

Armygirl and Guitar1964 are not the only viewers that the show would probably lose, I would probably lose interest as well.

[Nogravitasatall]

Oldnavy, Small sample, but proves the point, there is no good reason for them to stab LP and the show in heart again. Its like them running a Shenny, its just unreasonable, and less probable than going on to new situations. I'll doubt it till I see it.

[hamerman55]

I've mentioned before that I didn't ever finish watching "The Wheaton Recurrance", nor did I pick the show back up until just before the end of the third season (the flashback episode and the finale). I was that pissed off and disturbed by them breaking up Penny and Leonard for such a stupid reason. In retrospect, it appears to have been a good thing, but I hated the basic idea. I don't think they ever intended to keep them together after the first episode of season three, and even in that episode, they really telegraphed their intentions. It was all about how Sheldon felt about everything, and clearly the writers put little time into thinking about Leonard and Penny. It was easy for them to break them up, as they had two years of experience keeping them apart. It was more fun for them to create the Shamy, and restart Howadette. Then they added Priya. All of this seemed to be so they could avoid writing about the central relationship very much. They dropped little crumbs here and there, but I suspect they were waiting for the ratings to drop, then quickly hook Leoanrd and Penny back up for a happily ever after like "Friends". Perversely, the shows ratings and reruns kept doing better, and I believe they figured out a way to write Leonard and Penny together and keep it funny. I suspect that came about partly because the other relationships settled down and weren't really as easy to write for. Plus the emotional and humor heart of the show was always the Leonard and Penny pairing - the nerd and the actress. All the others are nerd with nerd, and resolved themselves pretty quickly. It is now easier to write for Leonard and Penny, with the couples around the setting them up. The last two episodes really pointed that out. You have three couples in different places that can bounce off each other, and it look natural. One of the best scenes was Penny handing out food while Bernadette observes that she and Howard got married to hep deal with his three months in space. All Leonard and Penny needed to do was look at each other and it was hilarious. The actors are that good, and the setup now is that good. It is not clear how Rajwill develop. Just because he can talk to girls doesn't fix him being an awkward nerd. Now that he can talk, he still has to figure what to say, and he's still a full-on metrosexual. Ther's just more places to go than breaking up Leonard and Penny again. It just isn't funny, and will cost viewers. At this point, breaking them up would be as bad as if they tried to kill one of the characters off. That worked in "Two and a Half Men" but mainly because the characters are all fairly bad people. In TBBT, the characters are beloved, and it would just be too traumatic.

[DrBootsHofstadter]

 

Oh, and on a related note--if Sheldon's such a committed asexual, then how is he ever going to have a relationship with Penny???

 

 

Oh, snap! 

[Oldnavy]

Oldnavy, Small sample, but proves the point, there is no good reason for them to stab LP and the show in heart again. Its like them running a Shenny, its just unreasonable, and less probable than going on to new situations. I'll doubt it till I see it.

I agree. I would be suprised to see them do anything like that. Especially after they have had such

a successful season. The Lenny storyline is a big reason I think, along with Shamy.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Oldnavy

[phantagrae]

Of course most of us want Lenny to move forward and happy.  As I previous  stated, I hope the writers don't mess with them again and that I was happy for most part with Season Six and want more of the same in Season Seven.

 

As for us feeling nervous about Penny and Raj being alone in scenes especially while drinking.... why would we ever have those type of feelings or thoughts. Maybe it's due to Season Four Finale --- if they could do it once they can do it again.  If it is part of canon it can be discuss and worry about when it comes to Leonard, Penny, and Lenny.  We have four months with Leonard away to worry what's going to happen and if Lenny will be a protected couple like Shamy by the writers. Or will things head south again for them.

 

Final, none of us are sure that Lorre will never try crap like this again.  I do wonder if you have a direct line to the writers where they keep you informrd on the happenings for Leonard, Penny, and Lenny.

 

I think that you forget the circumstances of that Raj/Penny night.  That situation was unique and there's no reason for it to happen again because none of the characters involved (R/P/L) will be in that place again.  And the very fact that they've already done it once should tell you that they won't do it again.

 

You can certainly discuss what happened that night, but I think you have to look at the big picture and put it in context--it wasn't just the writers trying to drive a wedge into the Lenny, it was part of the progress of the big picture.  As Leonard told his mother in the S5 opener, it upset him that Penny slept with Raj (as far as he knew), but he also knew that he didn't have the right to object, since he was with Priya.

He was struggling with wanting to have his cake and eat it too.  He had a similar attitude in the S1 episode when the guys were all hitting on Sheldon's sister.  Howard mentioned that Leonard shouldn't be going after Missy because he had Penny.  Leonard says, "In what universe do I have Penny?", and Howard says something like, "So can I have Penny?" and Leonard says, "Hell, no!"  He wanted Missy, but he didn't want to let go of his hopes for Penny.

 

At any rate, I think that the idea that she might move on to someone else, including one of his friends, bothered him probably more than who she might move on with.  Yes, it was somewhat unseemly for it to have been Raj and for it to have been in Leonard's bedroom, but as Raj pointed out, Leonard had Priya.  What say does Leonard have outside of that?  If Raj can't prevent Leonard from sleeping with his sister--apparently in Raj's bedroom--then how can Leonard prevent Raj from sleeping with Penny, no matter where?

 

BUT, all of that served, as did the break-up back in the Wheaton Recurrence, to hone Leonard and Penny's feelings for each other.  If they hadn't broken up, Penny wouldn't have realized what a great catch Leonard was and how much she really did love him.  If they hadn't broken up, Leonard wouldn't have realized that no matter who he might date, he never would love any of them as much as he loved Penny, even if she wasn't able to say the words when he wanted her to say them.

 

So, because they went through those trials and still came out where they did--figuring out the truths in their relationship and letting go of insecurities and false perceptions and fear and pride--their relationship is that much stronger.  Penny's not afraid to say how she feels, not afraid to admit her insecurities in the face of someone like Alex, not afraid to be vulnerable enough to say "I love you".  Leonard has finally become secure enough as a person to be a little more assertive about what he wants from her, that he doesn't have to just acquiesce to everything she wants in order to keep her happy so that she'll stay with him.

They've always had a solid friendship--which is why Leonard couldn't bear to have to tell her to stay away when Priya demanded it--but now they also have a solid romantic relationship.

 

I think that the ultimate goal of the show as far as the Lenny goes has been to eventually get them to that "Our babies will be smart and beautiful" point, but you don't do that in the first season, obviously.

The fact that they've experienced so many ups and downs--and have progressed in a very organic way--is what has put them on such solid ground now.

 

There's no point in backing down from that now.

 

I think that what they're more likely to do now between them would be more along the lines of the Valentine's Day episode, where they both have to let go of past reflexes or bad habits and find new paths that work for them.

I think it's still going to evolve slowly because there's no end in sight for the show at this point and they still have plenty of ground to cover for all of the characters.

 

I think it would be interesting to see what might happen to Leonard if Penny gets busy doing a lot of commercials or a lot of bit parts in random TV shows (nothing hugely successful, of course), or if she shoots a pilot for a show that ends up not getting picked up (big excitement over getting cast, big disappointment over the failure to get picked up, etc.)  If she gets crabby or depressed or exhausted, how does Leonard help her, or does he get upset that she's too busy or what.

Or it could be that he comes back from the expedition and suddenly is in demand--maybe he's asked to speak at various conferences or do some kind of follow-up work or whatever--and even though he's back from the trip, he's still busy and not around the way she's used to.

I'm not talking about break-up type of stuff, just relationship stuff.

 

So, I think there's plenty to do with the Lenny without anything melodramatic happening.  And it could be that they might spend a little more time on how Raj is going to develop now, which takes some of the pressure off of what to do with the Lenny (in terms of monumental moments).

[stardustmelody]

Summer hiatus Fanfic Chat is on for Saturday at 11 AM Pacific (2 PM Eastern, 7 PM UK).  For those of you in other time zones, please do the translation.   Please see the thread under "show" for details.   Hope to see you all there.

[phantagrae]

Okay, I've done this in the Shamy thread before, but I'm tossing this out to show some love for the Lenny.

These are the lyrics to a song that reminds me of the Lenny, though from before the solid footing they're on now.  This is maybe S3 Lenny, I guess, but it always reminds me of this couple :

 

Gimme a Chance (Plain White Ts)

 

Why don't you open up your eyes?

These are more than passing glances

Why don't you say what's on your mind?

'Cause I'm taking all the chances

 

If I'm everything you wanted, oh,

If I'm not everything you need...

Then you can walk right out the door

And you can walk right out on me

But you're never gonna see

Just how could it's gonna be

Until you gimme a chance

Gimme a chance, oh

 

What do you see in all these guys?

Don't you know they're just pretending?

Somehow you always seem surprised

That is not a happy ending

Don't you want a happy ending?

 

If I'm not everything you wanted, oh

If I'm not everything you need...

Then you can walk right out the door

And you can walk right out on me

But you're never gonna see

Just how could it's gonna be

Until you gimme a chance

Gimme a chance, oh

 

Yeah you can walk right out the door

And you can say goodbye to me

But I know you're gonna stay

You'll be happy every day

If you'll just gimme a chance

Gimme a chance, oh

 

All I want to do is spend my life with you

And all I want from you is a chance so I can

Prove my love to you

Just gimme a chance

Gimme a chance

 

If I'm not everything you wanted, oh

If I'm not everything you need...

Then you can walk right out the door

And you can walk right out on me

But you're never gonna see

Just how could it's gonna be

Until you gimme a chance

Gimme a chance, oh

 

Yeah you can walk right out the door

And you can say goodbye to me

But I know you're gonna stay

You'll be happy every day

If you'll just gimme a chance

Gimme a chance, oh

 

Why don't you open up your eyes?

Just gimme a chance,

Gimme a chance, oh

Why don't you say what's on your mind?

Just gimme a chance

Gimme a chance, oh

[SRAM]

There is so much the writers could do with Leonard and Penny as a couple, like bringing in family members, because we haven't seen either of their bothers or sisters, or Penny's mother and Leonard's father. What if Penny's brother visited and hit on Amy or her divorced sister hit on Leonard. There is so much potential, with them as a couple in season 7. I also really want to see a paintball episode with all the girls, including Alex, with Alex of course being taken out by friendly fire (Penny).

[Tensor]

I was looking to do a video, for Penny and Leonard, but I don't have all the clips I want to use separated out yet, and now that I'm busy with several things, it doesn't look like I'll get to it before the end of the summer. But I want to use the lyrics from the song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYSc7QzWtt8. That it was written and sung by Keith Carradine is just a bonus considering who he plays in TBBT (he won the Oscar for best original song, from the movie "Nashville". I'm sure you all can picture scenes (although not necessarily the same scenes I'm thinking of), but here's the lyrics:

It's not my way to love you just when no one's looking

It's not my way to take your hand if I'm not sure

It's not my way to let you see what's going on inside of me

When it's a love you won't be needing, you're not free

Please stop pulling at my sleeve if you're just playing

If you won't take the things you make me want to give

I never cared too much for games and this one's driving me insane

You're not half as free to wander as you claim

But I'm easy

I'm easy

Give the word and I'll play your game

So that's how it ought to be

Because I'm easy

Don't lead me on if there's nowhere for you to take me

If loving you would have to be a sometime thing

I can't put bars on my insides

My love is something I can't hide

It still hurts when I recall the times I've cried

I'm easy

I'm easy

Take my hand and pull me down

I won't put up any fight

Because I'm easy

Don't do me favors, let me watch you from a distance

'Cause when you're near, I find it hard to keep my head

And when your eyes throw light at mine

It's enough to change my mind

Make me leave my cautious words and ways behind

That's why I'm easy

Ya, I'm easy

Say you want me, I'll come running

Without taking time to think

Because I'm easy

Ya, I'm easy

Take my hand and pull me down

I won't put up any fight

Because I'm easy

Ya, I'm easy

Give the word, I'll play your game

So that's how it ought to be

Because I'm easy

Edited June 5, 2013 by Tensor

[Carlos]

I can't imagine that Raj was the one to suggest they sleep together, even if they were both drunk.  Penny's a big ol' five.  The way it looked to me, she was regretting having broken up with Leonard, but as far as she knew, he was now committed to Priya--they were basically living together at Raj's.  So she gets really drunk and decides to console herself with Raj, and of course, he's not about to pass that up.

That he actually thought that she had fallen in love with him (as he thought he had fallen in love with her) says to me that he didn't take advantage of her just for sex or just because she was drunk and lonely.

If anything, she took advantage of him (because she was drunk and lonely.)  Raj was a substitute for Leonard in that moment.

 

Actually on this subject, i couldn't disagree with you more. She was sad and lonely, and waaay more drunk than Raj, That's why I believe he took advantage of her. Besides Raj took her to his (temporary) room. Penny is the one that is surprised when she wakes up with him by her side, and while Raj knew exactly what had happened, she didn't. Also in my view, Raj has always been a little bit of a douche and looked for his own interests first.

 

Also, after the incident, the only one who  is really remorseful of what happened is her, because she didn't want it to happen in the first place and had only occurred because she was too drunk to know what was going on

[ArmyGirl]

Actually on this subject, i couldn't disagree with you more. She was sad and lonely, and waaay more drunk than Raj, That's why I believe he took advantage of her. Besides Raj took her to his (temporary) room. Penny is the one that is surprised when she wakes up with him by her side, and while Raj knew exactly what had happened, she didn't. Also in my view, Raj has always been a little bit of a douche and looked for his own interests first.

 

Also, after the incident, the only one who  is really remorseful of what happened is her, because she didn't want it to happen in the first place and had only occurred because she was too drunk to know what was going on

 

Awesome comments and I agree Rag is a major d-bag and has been since Season One. 

 

My one wish for Penny is for her to stop drinking and I know she cut back a lot in Season Six.  People that get that drunk and can't remember what they did is a sign that you need to either stop drinking or cut way back on the drinking. 

[phantagrae]

Actually on this subject, i couldn't disagree with you more. She was sad and lonely, and waaay more drunk than Raj, That's why I believe he took advantage of her. Besides Raj took her to his (temporary) room. Penny is the one that is surprised when she wakes up with him by her side, and while Raj knew exactly what had happened, she didn't. Also in my view, Raj has always been a little bit of a douche and looked for his own interests first.

 

Also, after the incident, the only one who  is really remorseful of what happened is her, because she didn't want it to happen in the first place and had only occurred because she was too drunk to know what was going on

 

She wasn't sad--she wasn't crying in her beer.  Yes, she admitted that she shouldn't have broken up with Leonard, but she didn't seem sad to me.  She and Raj were laughing and enjoying themselves.

Yes, she was more drunk than he was, but that's not unusual.  And it also doesn't mean that it wasn't her idea to take him to bed.

The fact that she doesn't remember what happened doesn't mean that she didn't initiate it.  It just means that she was more drunk than he was.

 

And she's the one with the track record for impulsively sleeping with guys when she's drunk.  Leonard wasn't drunk and she was when she came to him and "used him for sex".  And she regretted that night just as she regretted HER ACTIONS with Raj.

She's the one who said she always does things like that, etc.  She was no sad innocent flower taken advantage of by the crazed drunken womanizer.  Raj is much more passive than she is, and much more passive than Leonard is.

And Penny is a big ol' five...

 

It seems to me that Penny used Raj as a substitute for Leonard and Raj was naive enough to think that it meant that she had fallen in love with him (Raj) going by his comments the next day.

And Penny equated her behavior with Raj to her behavior in elementary school--the boy she was supposed to "marry" on the playground had already "married" another girl, so she hung upside down on the monkey bars and let all the other boys see her underpants (to get back at him.)  So, she seemed to be implying that sleeping with Raj was kind of a way at getting back at Leonard for being with Priya.

 

I'm not saying that's necessarily true, but she certainly seems to be blaming herself for what happened, not blaming Raj for taking advantage of her.  Never once does she imply that he somehow coerced her or took advantage of her or date-raped her or anything like that.

She was drunk and it impaired her judgement and she chose to do something that she would not have done sober.  But nowhere in the episode does she even hint that he took advantage of her.

[Nogravitasatall]

ArmyGirl, And Leonard knew there was nothing to forgive and Raj and Penny reached an equilibrium. Now its up to the writers to persuade you or not. That wretched cat. Damn hiatusii.