Ship Zone Leonard And Penny Shippers Thread (Possible Spoilers)

[SRAM]

Speaking of which, and considering the type of season they've just had (ratings wise), can you imagine how huge (I presume) their new contracts are going to be? Not that I'm complaining. In varying degrees they all deserve what they get, and more.

That may also be the reason there hasn't been renewal for season 8, they may ask for big raises, so the network may be waiting for a more favorable time for them to negotiate with the actors.

[hamerman55]

The network is sort of betting against itself. The only better time would be if the show didn't do as well next season. If the show does as well (or better) next season the network will be in a worse position to negotiate. 

 

By the way, at last summer's ComicCon, how much about the sixth season did we really learn? I seem to remember a lot of publicity, but I don't remember much about their plans. Any thoughts?

[Tensor]

That may also be the reason there hasn't been renewal for season 8, they may ask for big raises, so the network may be waiting for a more favorable time for them to negotiate with the actors.

There isn't going to be a more favorable time, for the network, for the next contract. Even if TBBT lost 50% of their audience next year( very, very, highly unlikely) they would still be a top 15 show. Look at it this way, Two Broke Girls pulled down a 4.3 demo, with11.9 million viewers. Half of the TBBT numbers would be a 3.6 demo with 10.6 million viewers. Both of those are the Live + 7 ratings It's very difficult to explain how big this show is, ratings wise, in this day and age.

Beyond the ratings for just the show, it also brings in viewers to the next show, and gives the network bragging rights as to having a #1 show. Unless the salary demands are hugely exorbitant,( which I don't see happening. Although the will be Large probably), CBS is going to have to pay it. at least for the next contract. One or two years is the real question.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Tensor

[hamerman55]

There isn't going to be a more favorable time, for the network, for the next contract. Even if TBBT lost 50% of their audience next year( very, very, highly unlikely) they would still be a top 15 show. Look at it this way, Two Broke Girls pulled down a 4.3 demo, with11.9 million viewers. Half of the TBBT numbers would be a 3.6 demo with 10.6 million viewers. Both of those are the Live + 7 ratings It's very difficult to explain how big this show is, ratings wise, in this day and age.

Beyond the ratings for just the show, it also brings in viewers to the next show, and gives the network bragging rights as to having a #1 show. Unless the salary demands are hugely exorbitant,( which I don't see happening. Although the will be Large probably), CBS is going to have to pay it. at least for the next contract. One or two years is the real question.

It seems like to me if the network execs were smart, they would lock them up for two years right now. They did this before by writing a three year contract with them well before the end of the season. The actors and show-runners got serious bragging rights, and the network probably got a better deal. Waiting puts more pressure on the network, for all the reasons you mentioned. The performance of the show is unprecedented, so the smart move may be to announce a two or three year renewal at ComiCon next month. You lock the cast in, create serious buzz, and look good in the process. Waiting until next spring could be very expensive, and cost them some good will. I recall contract negotiations with Michael Jordan late in his Bulls career. Jordan made far more money with endorsements, so he didn't want to seem too greedy or he would lose good will and marketability. The Bulls needed to pay him well so they wouldn't look tight-fisted. Both parties had unusual problems coming to a contract that served everyone's best interest. CBS and TBBT folks have to deal with unknown territory.

[hamerman55]

I was just rewatching "The Recombination Hypothesis" (one of my favorite episodes) and was thinking. As the bulk of it took place in Leonard's head, I was wondering to what extent the writers meant for this to be a clear statement of Leonard's feelings and thoughts about his relationship with Penny. In particular, the theme of Leonard overthinking and talking too much about the relationship was brought up twice by Penny, in Leonard's mind. Once on the date at the restaurant, and the other when the gang was eating at the Cheesecake Factory. Does this mean Leonard thinks he's overthinking the relationship? In the end, after war-gaming the idea of dating Penny again led to bad conclusions, he decides to ask her out in spite of his thoughts. It seems that Leonard has decided that he agrees with the Penny in his mind. Yet now the relationship is strong because they talk. What do you all think.

[eirwinrommel]

I was just rewatching "The Recombination Hypothesis" (one of my favorite episodes) and was thinking. As the bulk of it took place in Leonard's head, I was wondering to what extent the writers meant for this to be a clear statement of Leonard's feelings and thoughts about his relationship with Penny. In particular, the theme of Leonard overthinking and talking too much about the relationship was brought up twice by Penny, in Leonard's mind. Once on the date at the restaurant, and the other when the gang was eating at the Cheesecake Factory. Does this mean Leonard thinks he's overthinking the relationship? In the end, after war-gaming the idea of dating Penny again led to bad conclusions, he decides to ask her out in spite of his thoughts. It seems that Leonard has decided that he agrees with the Penny in his mind. Yet now the relationship is strong because they talk. What do you all think.

I think Leonard was creating (in his mind) what he expected to happen. Like modeling an experiment on a computer before actually performing it. He expected Penny to contend that he overthought things. However he was willing to take the chance that reality would turn out better than his simulation. i.e. he ran the experiment, and didn't just assume the hypothesis was correct. Unlike Sheldon in The Cooper-Hofstadter Polarization (Season 1 Episode 9).

 

Leonard: Excuse me, I designed the experiment that proved the hypothesis.

Sheldon: It doesn’t need proving.

Leonard: So the entire scientific community is just supposed to take your word?

Sheldon: They’re not supposed to, but they should.

 

Fortunately for him (and Penny) he made the right choice.

[SRAM]

I tend to think he was overthinking again, because his daydream seemed to center on all the things that could wrong, not the the really good stuff, like we got in season 6. Plus when he actually asked her, she did ask him if he thought about what he was doing and he told her he did, so maybe it was suppose to be a turning point for his character?

[Oldnavy]

I was just rewatching "The Recombination Hypothesis" (one of my favorite episodes) and was thinking. As the bulk of it took place in Leonard's head, I was wondering to what extent the writers meant for this to be a clear statement of Leonard's feelings and thoughts about his relationship with Penny. In particular, the theme of Leonard overthinking and talking too much about the relationship was brought up twice by Penny, in Leonard's mind. Once on the date at the restaurant, and the other when the gang was eating at the Cheesecake Factory. Does this mean Leonard thinks he's overthinking the relationship? In the end, after war-gaming the idea of dating Penny again led to bad conclusions, he decides to ask her out in spite of his thoughts. It seems that Leonard has decided that he agrees with the Penny in his mind. Yet now the relationship is strong because they talk. What do you all think.

I think he eventually agreed that he was overthinking things. However, I think even more he was weighing the risk of being hurt again. The indications are that his love for Penny which never really died norm his desire to marry her one day. Eventually he decides that she is worth the risk.

Something else to note, @ the end of that episode when he does really ask her out, her facial expression is

is diferent than in his thoughts. She smiles as if she is glad that he has asked out again and that date different.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Oldnavy

[SRAM]

After all that stuff with Priya, it would have been so much better if she would have asked him out. However continuity has never been an important thing in this show. When Leonard and Penny got back together, it was more of a reset than a reunion, because he still had to win her back, instead of what was suggested in earlier episodes, that they both wanted each other back.

[eirwinrommel]

After all that stuff with Priya, it would have been so much better if she would have asked him out. However continuity has never been an important thing in this show. When Leonard and Penny got back together, it was more of a reset than a reunion, because he still had to win her back, instead of what was suggested in earlier episodes, that they both wanted each other back.

I don't know. I think Penny was concerned that if things went bad again, she'd be pregnant/married (or possibly loose Leonard forever {not actually stated but as an undercurrent})

 

(In her imagination, Penny is transported to her wedding day.)

Minister: Do you, Penny, take Leonard to be your lawful wedded husband?

Penny (turning, heavily pregnant): Well, it’s a little late for me to start saying no, isn’t it?

(Back in the bedroom)

Amy: Penny?

Penny: Sorry, just remembered I’ve got to stop by the drugstore.

 

As we know from this season's V-Day episode Penny has big commitment issues. In Leonard's simulation Penny didn't want sex, when she was talking to the girls, and if things went wrong the results weren't so dire.

 

Bernadette: Do you think you’ll sleep with him tonight?

Penny: Absolutely not. Look, we’re just gonna have dinner and, you know, see how it goes.

Amy: If he were dying, would you sleep with him?

Penny: What?

Amy: Assuming he were dying of something that couldn’t be sexually transmitted. You know, like a spear wound to the head.

Penny: Okay, he is not dying.

Amy: How do you know? Are you a doctor?

Bernadette: You can make-believe, though. Sometimes Howard and I pretend that his arrhythmia is acting up and I’m a sexy cardiologist. And the naughty part is I’m not in his HMO network.

Penny: Screw it. I’m not gonna make a big deal out of this. It’s just dinner.

Amy: With a dead man.

Penny: Amy, stop it. Oh, God, I’m so nervous.

Bernadette: Relax. You know Leonard’s always been crazy about you. It’s gonna be great.

Penny: I know, but we’ve finally gotten to a place where we can hang out without it being weird. And what if something goes wrong? Then what?

 

So to Leonard's mind if things failed the result would just be a setback, but not catastrophic.

Edited June 12, 2013 by eirwinrommel

[Squidley]

Leonard does over think things, however Penny put the idea in his head that she was available in the not a date episode. I think Penny is more proactive in Lenny but wants Leonard to take the lead.

[SRAM]

Leonard does over think things, however Penny put the idea in his head that she was available in the not a date episode. I think Penny is more proactive in Lenny but wants Leonard to take the lead.

 

That is true, Penny seems to melt when Leonard takes charge.  When Leonard confronted her in the Valentine's episode, she seemed to submit to him and even got insecure when she thought he would never again ask her to marry him.  She seemed to really like him all getting gangster at the shooting range and told him that take charge Leonard was a turn on when they went on the non-date.  Maybe that is Penny's kryptonite, she likes strong men, and Leonard's increasing confidence is making her more and more serious about him.  Remember she complained when Priya was dating him, how she turned him into boyfriend material because he wasn't so shy anymore and would look at the girl, when he talked, instead of his feet.

[BangerMain]

That is true, Penny seems to melt when Leonard takes charge.  When Leonard confronted her in the Valentine's episode, she seemed to submit to him and even got insecure when she thought he would never again ask her to marry him.  She seemed to really like him all getting gangster at the shooting range and told him that take charge Leonard was a turn on when they went on the non-date.  Maybe that is Penny's kryptonite, she likes strong men, and Leonard's increasing confidence is making her more and more serious about him.  Remember she complained when Priya was dating him, how she turned him into boyfriend material because he wasn't so shy anymore and would look at the girl, when he talked, instead of his feet.

 

Yes that's true. She loves when he stands up to her. She becomes submissive when she thinks he is not afraid to lose her. Leonard either does not see that or he purposely has decided not to use that approach when dealing with her. The writers have not made that clear.

[Guitars1964]

That is true, Penny seems to melt when Leonard takes charge.  When Leonard confronted her in the Valentine's episode, she seemed to submit to him and even got insecure when she thought he would never again ask her to marry him.  She seemed to really like him all getting gangster at the shooting range and told him that take charge Leonard was a turn on when they went on the non-date.  Maybe that is Penny's kryptonite, she likes strong men, and Leonard's increasing confidence is making her more and more serious about him.  Remember she complained when Priya was dating him, how she turned him into boyfriend material because he wasn't so shy anymore and would look at the girl, when he talked, instead of his feet.

 

And that is the source of his conundrum - from the beginning he felt he was out of her league, and he was hopelessly in love with her (me - been there, did that, didn't go well).  As a consequence, he tried to figure out how to act around her to curry favor.  It's a common problem in a lot of relationships as one or the other, or both, try to present a false front that they think the other wants.  Eventually the truth comes through, for good or bad (as the other says "you've changed", when they really haven't  -they've just resumed being who they really are).

 

Ultimately, Leonard needs to be Leonard around her.  He can be assertive to the extent that he communicates what he wants and what's important to him.  But that isn't necessarily "going all gangster" for her - 'cause that ain't Leonard, either.  

 

The good news to me, even before the Bon Voyage "I Love You" (a big deal for us "Lenny" fans) was Leonard's gradual upping his game.  I think in later seasons we actually saw more Leonard dating other women than we did seeing Penny date other guys, before they got back together.  And Penny finally showed real insecurity during Alex' flirtations.  If Leonard can find that place inside himself where he can just be who he really is when he is with her, his sense of himself and confidence will probably be more than enough for Penny.  And, let's face it, she's got lots of her own issues.  Some of her past "Leonard would never leave ME" hubris is fading.  I think Penny realizes what she has in the real Leonard.  

 

Ignoring for the moment what the writers might do in Season 7 to keep the comedy fires stoked, as of the airport goodbye Penny and Leonard are in a good place together.  Finally.  'bout time.

[SRAM]

The best scene when Leonard was Leonard, was when he was showing Penny those experiments in his lab, because she actually saw Leonard in his enviroment. At the university, Leonard is truly an alpha male and is respected, that is why girls like Alex are interested it him, and there girls are even interested in Sheldon.

[Guitars1964]

The best scene when Leonard was Leonard, was when he was showing Penny those experiments in his lab, because she actually saw Leonard in his enviroment. At the university, Leonard is truly an alpha male and is respected, that is why girls like Alex are interested it him, and there girls are even interested in Sheldon.

Agreed - actually, in my fan fiction piece, The Rogue Wave Precipitator, my story had Penny recall that it was in the lab that first time that she realized that she loved Leonard.  Yes, Leonard was being the best Leonard he could be in the lab, doing what he loved, passionate about it and confident.  At the end of the day, that's got to be the formula for real intimacy and attraction...I think...I hope.

[hamerman55]

Good points all. Clearly at the end of "The Ornithophobia Diffusion", Penny stated clearly that she liked take charge, confident Leonard, and dropped clear hints that she would like to date him again. Leonard blew it when he fell into his old insecure, "I'll do anything to make you like me" mode. Just like this past season, they put a couple of episodes in that didn't have significant L/P interaction before "The Recombination Hypothesis". In this case, it made sense as they surely wanted to have a very important episode for the 100th. 

 

The continuing theme since then is that Penny's attraction to Leonard increases the more confident and strong Leonard is. It culminated in "The Tangible Affection Proof" where he promised to never ask her to marry him again. There is a reversal of their roles, as Leonard was confident that she wouldn't break up with him, and she was afraid that he was breaking up with her. It contrasts nicely with Leonard's wargaming in "The Recombination Hypothesis" where Penny snorts derisively at Leonard's suggestion that he would dump her. Even the "bug reports" in "The Beta Test Initiation" showed that Leonard was confident enough to hand her a lengthy and detailed list. It pissed Penny off, but she stuck in there with him. 

[ajond]

P & L (znd S)  unanswered questions/unresolved issues

 

1. Does P know about "our babies will be smart and beautiful"

2. Does she know that the first time she went to dinner with L it really was a date.

3. Does P know that L went to K to get her money back. On a related issue did P's dinner date with K move on to something else.

4. Does L know that R and P did not have sex.

5. Did P know she was dissing L when she tried to learn Physics from S. She went from doing a sweet thing for her boyfriend to dissing him as taught by S (Not a big fan of S).

6. Did S eat his burger after P dared him to.

7. Does S know that L gave P his mother's number.

 

I realise that none of these issues are significant and the writers are unlikely to provide answers for me.

They've moved on but I haven;t.

 

Your thoughts/guesses would be appreciated.

 

Not even sure this is the right thread for this. If it isn't could someone move it please. (is that possible)

.

 

.

[ArmyGirl]

@ajond

 

You know the one thing that has always bother me about Penny and Sheldon keeping things from Leonard?

 

Beverly kissed his best friend and neither Penny nor Sheldon had a problem keeping that secret from him and all we ever hear is how Sheldon can't lie or keep a secret and we as viewers know that isn't true. I would think something like this you would tell your friend.

 

Okay this is just one thing that really bothers me.  There are others.....

Edited June 13, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[Tensor]

As shown on the show, the following:

1. No. There hasn't been any indication that Penny knows about that line. Raj and Howard do know about it.

2. She pretty much knows, although it's never been confirmed to her.

3. No. Unknown, it's possible as P and K had a previous sexual relationship. Although if it did move on to something else, it didn't last very long as the next episode Penny is in bed with Leonard (after the Lime kiss).

4. There is not indication Penny has said anything to Leonard

5. No, she didn't. If she actually knew what she was saying, I don't think she would have said it.

6. Unknown.

7. Probably not.

Others may have differing opinions.

[ArmyGirl]

P & L (znd S)  unanswered questions/unresolved issues

 

......

 

5. Did P know she was dissing L when she tried to learn Physics from S. She went from doing a sweet thing for her boyfriend to dissing him as taught by S (Not a big fan of S).

 

......

 

I realise that none of these issues are significant and the writers are unlikely to provide answers for me.

They've moved on but I haven;t.

 

Your thoughts/guesses would be appreciated.

 

Not even sure this is the right thread for this. If it isn't could someone move it please. (is that possible)

.

 

.

 

 

I have always questioned why Penny went to Sheldon for help afterall she knows that Sheldon doesn't respect Leonard and his chosen field.  She has been around them enough to know better.  Sometimes Penny does things that make me just shake my head and wonder what is she thinking.

 

As for Sheldon, he has done many things that make me question if he really cares about Leonard.  Most times I come away thinking he doesn't and that he is nothing but a bully.

Edited June 13, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[hamerman55]

The only thing Sheldon has done to my recollection that shows he actually cares for Leonard was when he asked Penny to not hurt his friend. While bracketed by Sheldon stating his deep opposition to change, that one line was the redeeming fature of the episode. It seemed so out of character for him to just lay it out like that. For a brief moment, Sheldon wasn't asking for his sake, but for Leonard's. The rest of the scene was all about his feelings, but it is as if he let his guard down and showed some honest emotion.

Apart from this one line, the rest of this episode was insane. That after two years of depression and angst about having broken up with Leonard, multiple near misses, basically no sex and temporary ostracism from the group, Penny actually starts to break up with Leonard? It is as if they let someone off the street write the episode. It wasn't particularly funny, if at all, wrote a line for Sheldon that was out of character, negated growth in Penny, and broke with the narrative. Even after much discussion of the board, I don't really get it. The line referenced above from Sheldon expressing real honest emotion and caring for Leonard just showed up out of nowhere, and has never been reflected since. In fact, Sheldon has been awful to Leonard since then.

So we could add to the things Leonard may or may not know. Does he know how close Penny came to breaking up with him? Does he know that Sheldon pleaded his case? The two are connected, but I doubt Leonard knows either of them. Penny would never let on, and he is another case of where Sheldon can keep a secret from Leonard if he really wants to. Of course, this is one of those times when keeping the secret is the right thing to do, but other times they make it seem that keeping any secret is simply impossible for Sheldon, even to the point where he will provide the logical key to get him to spill his guts.

Edited June 14, 2013 by hamerman55

[SRAM]

I would so like for her to find out about Kurt and the money. Also that that she insulted Leonard's work. Bernadette could let her in on both, because Howard tells her everything.

[BangerMain]

Apart from this one line, the rest of this episode was insane. That after two years of depression and angst about having broken up with Leonard, multiple near misses, basically no sex and temporary ostracism from the group, Penny actually starts to break up with Leonard? It is as if they let someone off the street write the episode. It wasn't particularly funny, if at all, wrote a line for Sheldon that was out of character, negated growth in Penny, and broke with the narrative. Even after much discussion of the board, I don't really get it. The line referenced above from Sheldon expressing real honest emotion and caring for Leonard just showed up out of nowhere, and has never been reflected since. In fact, Sheldon has been awful to Leonard since then.

 

 

Episode 6.02 was simply a housekeeping excersize for the writers. They were starting the "fixing" of the Penny character and they went down the list of all of Penny's faults during the first third of season 6.

 

This is the only way to make any sense out of 6.02, they had a check list of all the Penny traits that caused problems in the relationship (many of which were piled on her in season 4), showed them to the viewers for review, then "fixed" them one by  one. They got to the "I love you", then the "I am insecure", and finally, "I have commitment problems".

 

For those viewer who followed the show closely and  remembered her agony of not having Leonard during season 4 and half of season 5, the almost breakup from 6.02 was truly a "WTF?" moment. The writers seemed to think it was needed for a review.

Edited June 14, 2013 by BangerMain

[BangerMain]

I would so like for her to find out about Kurt and the money. Also that that she insulted Leonard's work. Bernadette could let her in on both, because Howard tells her everything.

 

It has never made any sense that Penny does not know that Leonard got her money from Kurt.

 

First, why would Leonard not tell her, especially since Kurt got the credit for returning the money and Penny went out with him again. Why would Leonard stay silent about that, he was just about assaulted and he had proof on his forehead: “I owe Penny $1800, Kurt”. Since that little note was written in indelible ink, how did Leonard hide it from Penny until it wore off? Did he continue to wear a hat indoors for a week? Why would Sheldon, Howard or Raj not tell Penny about their visit to Kurt to watch Leonard be her knight?

 

The writers thought it funny and ironic that Leonard would suffer for Penny and get nothing for it but it was totally illogical.