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The Shamy Thread! (Season 6 Edition-Spoilers)


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@Cat. I'm not going to re-quote the post for conciseness, less scrolling :p

 

But. Re: the coitus line. The moment I read that line in the report, I took that as kind of a cover-up. Sheldon does not want Amy to know he's been "working on it", it's been obvious for a while and long before this episode and the latest snarkyness has come out. He wants Amy to think he's still the "old" Sheldon, for whatever reason. It was a very random point to make right there and then.

 

However, I also think the writers feel it's hilarious to show Amy being stuck in a relationship that frustrates her, and this episode showcased all of that to the maximum level. So that line was simply put there to have one more "haha, poor Amy" moment in the episode.

 

Re: date nights. Yes and no. I think they were indeed implying he's been trying to get out of date nights for a while. Which is more errors in continuity, since he's the one who invented them and was SO proud of them last season. But that's another story. However, I don't think that they are trying to imply her company is tedious to him. He specifically said "date night with you", not "If I wanted something tedious I'd rather be with you". I think they are trying to suggest he finds date nights tedious. And, again, it was another "haha, poor Amy" moment. So funny. *sarcasm sign*

 

I don't think they're even reverting Sheldon back to "old" Sheldon. Because THIS Sheldon, with Amy, never even existed. So it's not even a matter of one step forward, two steps back; or one step forward, twenty steps back. It's a one step forward, one step into an alternate reality matter. Amy was the exception to every rule he had, it seems like the writers have forgotten about that and now she's just one of the group. You get glimpses of the newer Sheldon in moments like when he asks what he should do, but other than that...

Edited by koops

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The last couple of episodes, they've tried to do Al and Peg Bundy humor.  Remember how they were on Married with Children?  Peg was always begging Al for sex, and Al acted like he couldn't stand it.  On that show they could get away with it, though, because Al and Peg had been married for many years.  It doesn't work in a newer relationship that they're trying to develop. 

 

Regardless, I'm convinced it's just bad teleplay-writing (because the storylines have been fine IMO) and there's no intent to show the relationship having problems.  I'm further convinced something good will happen in 6.24 and the writers will regroup over the summer and come back well-rested in the fall with better scripts. 

 

Something I noticed that's probably not deliberate:  Sheldon says coitus is ridiculous, but he also uses the word ridiculous to describe tenure, which he wants anyway.

Edited by tmp

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Man! I do enjoying reading all of your analyses. It's only a 20-min show and you guys have been studied like every second of it.

 

I start thinking of creating a book on TBBT from all the discussions. 

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The last couple of episodes, they've tried to do Al and Peg Bundy humor.  Remember how they were on Married with Children?  Peg was always begging Al for sex, and Al acted like he couldn't stand it.  On that show they could get away with it, though, because Al and Peg had been married for many years.  It doesn't work in a newer relationship that they're trying to develop. 

 

Regardless, I'm convinced it's just bad teleplay-writing (because the storylines have been fine IMO) and there's no intent to show the relationship having problems.  I'm further convinced something good will happen in 6.24 and the writers will regroup over the summer and come back well-rested in the fall with better scripts. 

 

Something I noticed that's probably not deliberate:  Sheldon says coitus is ridiculous, but he also uses the word ridiculous to describe tenure, which he wants anyway.

 

Just wanted to bold that part so in an attempt to give you an extra 'like'. :)

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I have some questions I have pondered on my own, but I write them down here if someone has ideas how to approach the current paradigm of their relationship. So the question what he said to Amy in the last episode, that he finds coitus ridiculous and off-putting... I'm aware of the context of throw-away lines, but... I wonder what is exactly the root in his mind for thoughts like that? What  happened in his early life that he is now so fobic of germs and touching and especially all touching in a romantic context? Why romance, sex and sexual things are so bad in his sight? Could it be the upbringing (too strict christianity?) he had as a child, the traumatic circumstances in which he grew up or is just something he invented on his own? He has seen his parents marriage as an example of marriage, and we all know that wasn't the happy one. Is it the only examply he has seen? So that's partly the reason why he is so negative about romantic relationship and all that what it includes? Could it help that he has now seen Howard and Bernadette somewhat happy in their own marriage?

I hope at some point he will change his mind over having coitus with Amy. He must have seriously thought about it, since 6x14. Otherwice it wouldn't have been possible for him to say what he said then. Has he been thinking it in details or just overall thinking? Like, when it could happen, how it could happen, where it could happen, why it could happen, what could happen if it happened and so on. I don't know if his mind has went over there yet, if hasn't, it should go there for Amy's sake at some point, because they have made it really clear Amy wants deeper physical relationship with him. 

If they depict his mind won't go there, at least I would like to see them equally happy in their relationship where they can both rejoice being in that relationship, whatever kind it is and not Amy being somewhat repressed all the time by Sheldon. That option would have been possible if they had kept Amy more nerdy-Amy, so Sheldon could have stayed more nerdy-Sheldon, so everyone could have been happy?

However, I would love to see an episode where they revealed some more about about his thinking of having coitus with Amy or just more closer physical relationship. That he would want to kiss her, touch her, an so on and not to be so reluctant all the time for her.

Another question I had is, why Amy told us story that Sheldon had cancelled (or tried to cancel) their date night for trimming his q-tips in the last episode. Did it mean Sheldon had tried to cancel their date night and not to mention the real reason (the funeral) or was it an earlier case? Did they want to make a point how tedious Sheldon feels their date nights now are - he wants to cancel them for such ridiculous reasons. He really finds to trim his q-tips be better time using than to be with his girlfriend that he is supposed to love or be very fond of? And Sheldon's comparison between the funeral and their date night wasn't nice, I got the impression that his point was that he finds their date nights as tedious as the funeral or almost like it. Well I assume the writers do this on purposes we have discussed earlier, but I don't find it fascinating story telling - I just feel sad and sorry for Amy. If the writers want to make a point that Sheldon finds their date nights tedious then it seems that Sheldon probably thinks also that Amy is tedious, right? And where they want to head for with this in their relationship, is another question. To make Amy frustrated and make humour out of it? To write a big drama? To make point how hard for Sheldon is to win his childhood issues and wrong thinking of things? To write a longer story arc of how their relationship progress through more difficult times?

In any case I sense and feel they cannot go this current path for very long. Amy is such an angel to stay by his side in current situation, so she must really be in love with him. And I think deep down Sheldon is also in love with her, but he is still working on his issues. How eagerly he is working on his issues, is another question. Where does he want to go now? What is his goal? If to be the man he wanted to be for Amy, the follow-up question would be, what kind of man he wanted to be for her - a man who loves her? Can be physical with her? Wants to touch her, hold her, kiss her? Would he like to be his housband one day? (Amy's reference in the episode to move further in his life...)

I really wouldn't want to see him to reverting back to what he used to be - and if they take that route it would make either belittle Amys precence in the show or wonder why they brought her in the show in the first place. It isn't now for saving time - if they really plan for marriage Sheldon has still much to learn and process, and such backtracking and reverting back to previous Sheldon wouldn't help it, or what do you think?

 

 

I think that he has bad experience with his  neighbors and peers, and they give him hard time, and serious trauma, and he looked at his parents marriage, how this falls apart, and all this experience made him build wall to protect him from anyone who want to hurt him. He found out that science is something that he can controll, more or less, and something that will make him safe. Science is  something in which he feels like at his spot because, he is brilliant in it, and he can explore and study everything which is related with science. I don't know about germ phobia, maybe it is something beyond his controll, but I think that whole this roots of his fears and phobia which is related with sex is coming from his early years and so hurtful experience with peers and parents.

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Cat, I attribute all of this episode as extremely poor writing.  Timing of events were off, consistency was way off (when looking at previous episodes) and Sheldon's character was off.  Even Amy's character was off because she usually is one to stand up for herself.  I really cannot clap and feel good about the writing right now.   I keep holding out for the next couple of Tuesdays when the taping reports will come out and hopefully we will get a better grip on what it is they are doing.  But I have seen on many boards/forums that people are fed up with how they are dealing with this couple.  They better turn things around before the end of the season or they may find S7 will have fewer viewers.

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I don't think his dismissive nature when it comes to sex has necessarily anything to do with a "trauma" or previous life event that was the trigger. One can find sex and aspects of sex off-putting for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with defense mechanisms or other conditions and causes. I always thought he simply has a low sex drive and disinterest in it. On top of that, he never experienced a normal childhood or adolescence because of being sent off to college too young, so it is unsurprising his sexual development has been stunted in some way. And I think by now it's such a defining feature of his persona to be "above" baser urges that it's something he takes pride in and to admit he's been wrong about it is a humbling experience that he is probably not all that ready for. He hates to admit he's wrong. 

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I should add to my post above...that people are fed up without knowing what is in the new taping reports (the ones we already know about).  So imagine how frustrated some fans are going to be after seeing several weeks of this kind of behavior.   The writers better have something good in mind or fans will quit supporting this couple and that is sad.   I don't think that is their intent.

 

One thing I think it was Koops (forgive me, if I am wrong) posted not long ago that I have been observing as well is that it isn't just Sheldon being mean to Amy, but it seems that all the characters have been meaner in general to each other.  I am not fond of that direction and hope they stop it.   It isn't funny. They may think it is getting a lot of laughs, but if it comes across as over and over meanness, it no longer becomes funny.   I am not sure why they changed the edge from characters that showed a lot of respect and fondness for each other to suddenly being mean and cutting to each other.   It isn't a trend that will bode them well in the long run.   Hopefully, as stated above, they will re-group over the summer and come up with fresh and pleasant story lines again because it isn't fun watching Amy become a punching bag for Sheldon (or the meanness between characters).

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I think admist the writers there is a secret Shamy hater. They must be found and destroyed :p

 

Release the Kraken!

 

 ETA: On a serious note, if there is there must be something that's giving them power this season. I was watching some of the old episodes where Amy was always giving Sheldon logical advice in his 'language' on how to deal with social situations and he always valued her opinion, it was so nice to watch. I was just watching the the Rhinitis Revelation and I liked it when he took Amy to the lecture with him instead of his mother and when he spoke to his mom quite proudly about Amy's progress in getting a starfish addicted to cocaine in the sushi restaurant. Whoever was doing that stuff back then needs to come back, or if they're still here, get a boot up the ass as a reminder!

Edited by Razberrypie

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I think admist the writers there is a secret Shamy hater. They must be found and destroyed :p

 

They won't be able to keep their job very long if they exist because Shamy has become a huge phenomenon for BBT:icon_lol:  They would be foolish to mess with that couple.   :icon_wink:    Honestly, I can't figure out what they are trying to do with this new approach, but it isn't gaining them many accolades.   They hopefully are going to lead to an awesome thing, but lately the journey has been painful.

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Release the Kraken!

 

 ETA: On a serious note, if there is there must be something that's giving them power this season. I was watching some of the old episodes where Amy was always giving Sheldon logical advice in his 'language' on how to deal with social situations and he always valued her opinion, it was so nice to watch. I was just watching the the Rhinitis Revelation and I liked it when he took Amy to the lecture with him instead of his mother and when he spoke to his mom quite proudly about Amy's progress in getting a starfish addicted to cocaine in the sushi restaurant. Whoever was doing that stuff back then needs to come back, or if they're still here, get a boot up the ass as a reminder!

 

This is the first year Molaro is in charge, right?  He gets credit for coming up with the stories with heart, which is good, but (and this is pure speculation) maybe he isn't as good at the leadership aspect of his new role.

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I hope that Sheldon being a brat does not become the new normal in their relationship. However, I can see why the writers like the tension and might keep it as a joke until they tire of it sometime next season: it highlights the immovable object that is Sheldon, keeps the relationship at a standstill and has worked wonders at resetting the audience's expectations for further romantic development (see this thread). If Amy continues to tolerate his comments then most of the audience will tolerate it too.

IMO Sheldon's comments in isolation were no more grating than anything he said previously, it's just they were stacked one after another in a single episode. I don't know if the tension is indicative of a future plot at this stage (e.g. breakup, ultimatum from Amy) or it's just a reminder that Sheldon's development will be achingly slow.

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I think my main issue is that if they keep this up, Amy will become less and less believable as a character. I really really like her and I would hate to watch a show where all her scenes are about her sitting and grinning while Sheldon shoots jabs at her. That's really bad for her character, IMO. I'd rather they gave these two a break if they really cannot conceive moving Sheldon forward (which is ridiculous anyway, he is so cartoonish when they revert him back to being a brat at this stage in the game), and let Amy have her own storylines with work or the girls. I think there's a lot of other ways to drag it out than this painful dynamic they're settling on right now. And, to be honest, to progress Sheldon as far as they did up until recently to then put the brakes on and do a sudden 180 speaks of very bad story management, imo. 

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I think my main issue is that if they keep this up, Amy will become less and less believable as a character. I really really like her and I would hate to watch a show where all her scenes are about her sitting and grinning while Sheldon shoots jabs at her. That's really bad for her character, IMO. I'd rather they gave these two a break if they really cannot conceive moving Sheldon forward (which is ridiculous anyway, he is so cartoonish when they revert him back to being a brat at this stage in the game), and let Amy have her own storylines with work or the girls. I think there's a lot of other ways to drag it out than this painful dynamic they're settling on right now. And, to be honest, to progress Sheldon as far as they did up until recently to then put the brakes on and do a sudden 180 speaks of very bad story management, imo. 

 

Agree...taking what is a strong, independent woman and making her a doormat is not something I enjoy watching.   I would rather they break up for a while and let Amy find new friends with work and have fun with the girls, and possibly the boys meet with the girls from time to time while Sheldon realizes what he has lost.  I also don't care for the fact that they were growing up Sheldon and then just put the brakes on and had him u-turn and return to a S2 Sheldon, yet with less pleasantness about him.  He has grown colder and meaner than he was in S2.  It isn't something I enjoy watching.  So I want them to either commit to the relationship or give the relationship a break so that Sheldon can realize what he lost.   Hopefully it won't be too late for him once he figures it out. I know they have done jealous Sheldon before and I don't want that to be the only way he moves, but the boy needs  good kick in the pants right now.  Perhaps competition will bring him out of his complacency.

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I don't think his dismissive nature when it comes to sex has necessarily anything to do with a "trauma" or previous life event that was the trigger. One can find sex and aspects of sex off-putting for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with defense mechanisms or other conditions and causes. I always thought he simply has a low sex drive and disinterest in it. On top of that, he never experienced a normal childhood or adolescence because of being sent off to college too young, so it is unsurprising his sexual development has been stunted in some way. And I think by now it's such a defining feature of his persona to be "above" baser urges that it's something he takes pride in and to admit he's been wrong about it is a humbling experience that he is probably not all that ready for. He hates to admit he's wrong. 

 

I agree with you that he  hates to admit  he's wrong, he's pride and ambition forbids him to admit he was wrong. All his denying that sex is something that he don't need, all this malignancy towards Leonard, Howard and Raj about baser urges, he always said that he's beyond this, that he's better than this,and now when he feels something like sexual desire and love he's scared that all this would come out, somebody could finds out that great and brilliant Sheldon Cooper feels sexual desire and his woman is attracted to him..... he want's to avoid this with all his power. And this is something that makes me angry as hell...grrrr.  All his stubbornness and pride.

I think that he has build a wall around him and all this behavior all his selfish, childish behavior can result from the fact that perhaps  he's afraid of being hurt, do not want to show too much with his feelings because he has a bad experience associated with it, and he needed such a person like Amy  to  break this wall, someone like Amy  who is not treat him like a child, only she understands and does not judge him, take him seriously, and all  what he's doing is not funny or stupid for her. That's why he trusts her and  he's opened for her the most. And that's why she is the best woman and the most patient person, like saint, he needs to cherish her and admire her with all his power, strive for her even more.

Edited by silverangelD

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I have some questions I have pondered on my own, but I write them down here if someone has ideas how to approach the current paradigm of their relationship. So the question what he said to Amy in the last episode, that he finds coitus ridiculous and off-putting... I'm aware of the context of throw-away lines, but... I wonder what is exactly the root in his mind for thoughts like that? What  happened in his early life that he is now so fobic of germs and touching and especially all touching in a romantic context? Why romance, sex and sexual things are so bad in his sight? Could it be the upbringing (too strict christianity?) he had as a child, the traumatic circumstances in which he grew up or is just something he invented on his own? He has seen his parents marriage as an example of marriage, and we all know that wasn't the happy one. Is it the only examply he has seen? So that's partly the reason why he is so negative about romantic relationship and all that what it includes? Could it help that he has now seen Howard and Bernadette somewhat happy in their own marriage?

I hope at some point he will change his mind over having coitus with Amy. He must have seriously thought about it, since 6x14. Otherwice it wouldn't have been possible for him to say what he said then. Has he been thinking it in details or just overall thinking? Like, when it could happen, how it could happen, where it could happen, why it could happen, what could happen if it happened and so on. I don't know if his mind has went over there yet, if hasn't, it should go there for Amy's sake at some point, because they have made it really clear Amy wants deeper physical relationship with him. 

If they depict his mind won't go there, at least I would like to see them equally happy in their relationship where they can both rejoice being in that relationship, whatever kind it is and not Amy being somewhat repressed all the time by Sheldon. That option would have been possible if they had kept Amy more nerdy-Amy, so Sheldon could have stayed more nerdy-Sheldon, so everyone could have been happy?

However, I would love to see an episode where they revealed some more about about his thinking of having coitus with Amy or just more closer physical relationship. That he would want to kiss her, touch her, an so on and not to be so reluctant all the time for her.

Another question I had is, why Amy told us story that Sheldon had cancelled (or tried to cancel) their date night for trimming his q-tips in the last episode. Did it mean Sheldon had tried to cancel their date night and not to mention the real reason (the funeral) or was it an earlier case? Did they want to make a point how tedious Sheldon feels their date nights now are - he wants to cancel them for such ridiculous reasons. He really finds to trim his q-tips be better time using than to be with his girlfriend that he is supposed to love or be very fond of? And Sheldon's comparison between the funeral and their date night wasn't nice, I got the impression that his point was that he finds their date nights as tedious as the funeral or almost like it. Well I assume the writers do this on purposes we have discussed earlier, but I don't find it fascinating story telling - I just feel sad and sorry for Amy. If the writers want to make a point that Sheldon finds their date nights tedious then it seems that Sheldon probably thinks also that Amy is tedious, right? And where they want to head for with this in their relationship, is another question. To make Amy frustrated and make humour out of it? To write a big drama? To make point how hard for Sheldon is to win his childhood issues and wrong thinking of things? To write a longer story arc of how their relationship progress through more difficult times?

In any case I sense and feel they cannot go this current path for very long. Amy is such an angel to stay by his side in current situation, so she must really be in love with him. And I think deep down Sheldon is also in love with her, but he is still working on his issues. How eagerly he is working on his issues, is another question. Where does he want to go now? What is his goal? If to be the man he wanted to be for Amy, the follow-up question would be, what kind of man he wanted to be for her - a man who loves her? Can be physical with her? Wants to touch her, hold her, kiss her? Would he like to be his husband one day? (Amy's reference in the episode to move further in his life...)

I really wouldn't want to see him to reverting back to what he used to be - and if they take that route it would make either belittle Amys precence in the show or wonder why they brought her in the show in the first place. It isn't now for saving time - if they really plan for marriage Sheldon has still much to learn and process, and such backtracking and reverting back to previous Sheldon wouldn't help it, or what do you think?

 

Something I've wondered about is, which is the throwaway line? "It's a possibility (6-14) or "I find the concept of coitus, ridiculous and off-putting." (6-20). I know the people who hang out on this thread would choose the latter, but It seems to me that the weight of evidence may suggest the former. That episode (6-14) is the only time he has actually expressed that sentiment. Almost every other indication would support the feelings expressed in the episodes since (and previous to) 6-14. I know you probably won't agree with me, and maybe you're right, only the future will tell.

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Something I've wondered about is, which is the throwaway line? "It's a possibility (6-14) or "I find the concept of coitus, ridiculous and off-putting." (6-20). I know the people who hang out on this thread would choose the latter, but It seems to me that the weight of evidence may suggest the former. That episode (6-14) is the only time he has actually expressed that sentiment. Almost every other indication would support the feelings expressed in the episodes since (and previous to) 6-14. I know you probably won't agree with me, and maybe you're right, only the future will tell.

 

I would say that the line from 6.20 is the throwaway line, if indeed either is a throwaway line. And, it's not just because I want that to be true as a Shamy shipper. 

 

The 6.14 line was focused on during the episode (Penny's set-up to the line and reaction to it was the promo for the episode, generally, throw away lines aren't the focus of promos). Also, he said it directly to more than one person and those people reacted. Throw away lines aren't typically reacted to, or not reacted to strongly. I'd say Penny's reaction was a strong one.

 

On the other hand, when Sheldon said his line to Amy in 6.20, Amy initially had no reaction, he walked away and then she muttered to herself that she should have taken her breasts out earlier (a funny line that shows her frustration).

 

Now, I don't know that either of these are throwaway lines. It may be that Sheldon does think it is a possibility and that at the moment he finds the idea off-putting. As confusing at that sounds, it may be where some of his mean lines/reverting back to childish state stems from. Of course, I could be wrong and the second is just a throwaway line afterall.

Edited by shamylove

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I've been thinking about something....I have a theory. (Bear in mind I may be COMPLETELY off in my theory but I think it might have some merit).

 

Re-watching season 6 a couple of things have stood out to me.  

 

1. Amy becoming jealous of Alex, even though Penny laughs the situation off, (only to have it be a feint and have it turned around and have it be Penny the one that should be worried) Why, have Amy think that at all? It could have just been to simply get Penny to Caltech where she could witness Alex's flirting first hand but I think it might come into play later.

 

2. Howard and Raj discovering that Sheldon  has in the last few months started locking himself away for 20 minutes a day to be by himself, (culminating with Sheldon's speech). Why, did Sheldon start doing this? What made him decide to start taking a block of time during the day to try and recharge his batteries so to speak? 

 

3. Sheldon has become A LOT more sexually aware this season. Take the chicken pecking moment for instance. When he and Amy were tring to convince the gang they had sex and we're talking to each other he didn't understand why the 'blow by blow' would be a pun....now he understands the meaning of that sexual act? Where is learning some of these things from?

 

4. In the last episode Amy mentions him blowing off date night and giving ridiculous excuses. To which he responds "When you say things like that people think you're crazy", which makes zero sense because he obviously gave her the q-tip excuse at some point. To me it just came off as a deflection to get her off that part of the subject. Why is blowing the dates off? What is he doing? 

 

Now, again....I may be so far off it's not even funny, lol, but could it be possible that Sheldon is seeing a therapist about his intimacy issues? It would explain.the locking himself away maybe it's an exercise his therapist suggested. It would explain him having a better understanding of sex in general if he's talking to someone about it. It might also explain where he might be going and why he's giving such ridiculous excuses to Amy for his absence. It would explain his "I'm working on it", comment to Penny and Leonard.

 

As for the first thing I mentioned (Amy's short lived jealousy of Alex) wouldn't it be classic sitcom style to have either Amy or one of the gang see Sheldon with a woman and over hear snippets of conversation ('Why haven't you told Amy about our relationship yet? Will you be able to make it to see me Thursday night? ") making it SEEM like Sheldon is cheating on Amy only to have it be revealed that it's something else entirely LIKE she's really just Sheldon's shrink?

 

So yeah, that's my theory.....or I just wrote a very short fanfiction, lol.  

Edited by keie

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I don't think either of them needs to be a throw-away line. Like I said, Sheldon has been acting very differently with Amy than he has been acting about her when talking to other people, especially Penny, all season long. He is definitely "hiding" stuff from her. So, imo, that's just a way for him to cover-it up in front of her. But if one of them is, it is it's definitely the latest one. The whole episode of 6x14 was BASED on "It's a possibility", the reaction from Penny was designed to emphasized that line and all the promos were about it. You don't center an episode around a throwaway line.

 

@keie: That would be one hell of a plot-twist. It wouldn't even need to be a stranger, it could be Beverly. Which could explain why Leonard was so unfazed  to "It's a possibility". Maybe he knows? LOL. I think it might be far-fetched, but that would be a funny twist. 

 

Re: Sheldon becoming more sexually aware, though, I think that's just him going through delayed adolescence. He's been around his friends, Howard especially, long enough to be constantly exposed to sex puns and he is probably also doing some "research", he's not dumb, he can put 2+2 together when he starts having some interest in the subject. He's starting to connect the dots just like an adolescent would. 

Edited by koops

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