Ship Zone The Shamy Thread! (Season 6 Edition-Spoilers)

[Misophonia]

Has everyone migrated to Season 7? It's so quiet here I think my keyboard has an echo.

[Guest DroneInTheSun]

Well there's nothing much to say right now. You can only talk about the SIK for so long.

[koops]

Nope, I refuse to use the S7 thread until we get the first spoilers for S7.

 

I think it's just quiet because everyone's hiatus-ing in the chat at the moment. I kind of enjoy the calm right now to be honest, I don't think I could keep up with intense discussions right now. 

[bigbangsheldon]

Well there's nothing much to say right now. You can only talk about the SIK for so long.

I don't think I can ever stop complaining about the SIK. 

[Misophonia]

I don't think I can ever stop complaining about the SIK. 

 

Ditto!

[rubyanjel]

Hey, did you guys know it was leaked that an SIK will only occur after they get married? You know, Sheldon's adherence to social convention and that it's socially expected the man kisses his wife on their wedding? Since, you know, they're the traditional couple and strictly believes stuff like that.

[rachelshamyfan]

Hey, did you guys know it was leaked that an SIK will only occur after they get married? You know, Sheldon's adherence to social convention and that it's socially expected the man kisses his wife on their wedding? Since, you know, they're the traditional couple and strictly believes stuff like that.

where did you see that?

[koops]

Hey, did you guys know it was leaked that an SIK will only occur after they get married? You know, Sheldon's adherence to social convention and that it's socially expected the man kisses his wife on their wedding? Since, you know, they're the traditional couple and strictly believes stuff like that.

 

LOL! 

[rubyanjel]

where did you see that?

one of the TBBT writers' twitter. I think he linked this.

[rubyanjel]

The page is not working

Oh, why? What does it say?

[rubyanjel]

Pearl, I'm sorry. It was a joke. I was trying to make a point.

[bigbangsheldon]

naughty naughty 

[Misophonia]

LOL! 

 

Was I the only one who read "Hey, did you guys know it was leaked that an SIK will only occur after they get married?" and got more excited about the "after they get married part than the kiss? I was like ...Whoa! What? It's Season 7, and we're already talking marriage? I was having a Sheldon moment and thinking, Boy, that's kinda fast, isn't it?

 

LOL

[Misophonia]

Pearl, I'm sorry. It was a joke. I was trying to make a point.

 

Ruby, can I just say I am loving your profile pics lately? So cool!

[koops]

haha Miso! I actually always thought if they did get Shamy married they would either do it at the end of the series or right away (like, NOW). Because getting them married before kissing would be so weird that I could see them pull off a stunt like that. But yeah... lol. No. 

[Misophonia]

haha Miso! I actually always thought if they did get Shamy married they would either do it at the end of the series or right away (like, NOW). Because getting them married before kissing would be so weird that I could see them pull off a stunt like that. But yeah... lol. No. 

 

Yeah, could you see the humor that would come from just having Sheldon propose? Then, planning the wedding. (No, Sheldon, we are not going to have a traditional Vulcan wedding ceremony!) Then, Sheldon's massive freakout on the coming wedding night? Comedy gold, I tell ya. Comedy gold.

[koops]

Warning! Word-vomit ahead. I was just reading an update to the Nobel fic (and, ignoring for a moment my Nobel-related pet peeve, it was a good update) and it sent me into a spiral of Sheldon-related musings that I felt like I should share, if anyone cares, since the thread is pretty dead right now anyway.

 

There's a tendency in fanfic to depict Sheldon as someone who is constantly suppressing these huge emotions and urges, fighting them and being tormented about it. I think part of it has to do with the fact that for many it is very hard to understand why someone would behave the way Sheldon usually does. That if someone does not respond emotionally the way people on average do it must be because he's suppressing emotions in some dramatic fashion. The same way many feel the need to categorize his disinterest in sex as asexuality. It seems to me that people really struggle with the idea that someone might just not be easily triggered, emotionally or sexually, and so they need to come up with some dramatic explanation for it. And also because that makes for dramatic and powerful scenes in stories, to have Sheldon as this troubled soul, who is willingly suppressing a deeply emotional persona.

 

But I don't think we've ever really seen that on the show. Every time Sheldon has been confronted about his relationship with Amy, he has been very mature about it. Very in control. Very careful. He has never denied anything but at the same time he has never provided more information than he feels comfortable providing. He is careful not to risk and take steps before he is ready. Sometimes he gets prodded to move faster but I actually don't think he's being pushed. Take Stuart for example. Many see that as an example that Sheldon needs to be pushed to move forward. But I actually think that if you look at the first 9 episodes of S5, there are many signs that Sheldon was already on the verge of asking Amy to be his girlfriend and that Stuart was only the catalyst for an event that was probably going to happen anyway. He karate-chops Leonard and he doesn't correct Raj in 5x04 when he says "Sheldon's with Amy". Sheldon already knew he wanted to alter the paradigm of their relationship, he was probably just buying time.

 

I think that's what Sheldon does. He buys time. And the 6x23 speech is a MASSIVE example of how good he is at buying time. Especially about stuff he has never experienced before and so is still trying to figure out for himself, like loving someone or seeing sex as an actual possibility. I don't think he lies to himself, nor does he lie to Amy. I think he just withholds information from her. He doesn't want to open himself up too much too soon, but I think he is much more aware of his emotions and has a better handle on them than people give him credit for. I think that's the reason why 6x14 is one of my favorite episodes ever, because I was so pleased that they didn't go the "Sheldon-freaks-out" route when it comes to him and sex, but actually had him be very mature and aware of his issues. His need for control doesn't mean he wants to be emotionless (although of course he doesn't want to be a 'hippie' either), or to not move forward, it just means things need to move at a pace he is comfortable with and he has to be 100% sure before he makes a move. But if he's even 90% sure he will probably make the move anyway with a little prodding. And if he just isn't ready he won't do it (see Amy moving in). Which is why the whole argument that Amy is forcing him to do things and change is completely invalid.

 

The one thing we do know about him is that he is very proud and very stubborn. The only time we've ever seen him act like he's in denial it's when it concerned being wrong, be it about biology, or being jealous of Amy, or Zachary Quinto. When he went to Penny in 5x10 he KNEW he was jealous, he just needed to give himself a push to admit it to someone else. When he went to apologize to Amy in her lab he KNEW he was wrong, he just tried to come away from it with as much pride as possible. I do think Sheldon's biggest enemy is his pride.

 

And I think that's actually what I like about the show. It doesn't overdramaticize someone like Sheldon by trying to provide some deep, poignant explanation for how he behaves and tries to sell him as this tortured beautiful mind. It is probably because it's a sitcom, and if they were writing a drama they would go down a more cinematographic route, but, ironically enough since dramas are always considered closer to reality than comedies, I think they are very realistic in the way they portray him. Despite all his cartoonish quirks. 

 

Aaaand, I'm out. Sorry for the essay

Edited June 26, 2013 by koops

[Guest DroneInTheSun]

Nothing to add to koops's brilliant analysis but I just saw something that screamed Shamy on my dashboard so I am sharing:

“The best kiss is the one that has been exchanged a thousand times between the eyes before it reaches the lips.”

[Misophonia]

Warning! Word-vomit ahead. I was just reading an update to the Nobel fic (and, ignoring for a moment my Nobel-related pet peeve, it was a good update) and it sent me into a spiral of Sheldon-related musings that I felt like I should share, if anyone cares, since the thread is pretty dead right now anyway.

 

There's a tendency in fanfic to depict Sheldon as someone who is constantly suppressing these huge emotions and urges, fighting them and being tormented about it. I think part of it has to do with the fact that for many it is very hard to understand why someone would behave the way Sheldon usually does. That if someone does not respond emotionally the way people on average do it must be because he's suppressing emotions in some dramatic fashion. The same way many feel the need to categorize his disinterest in sex as asexuality. It seems to me that people really struggle with the idea that someone might just not be easily triggered, emotionally or sexually, and so they need to come up with some dramatic explanation for it. And also because that makes for dramatic and powerful scenes in stories, to have Sheldon as this troubled soul, who is willingly suppressing a deeply emotional persona.

 

But I don't think we've ever really seen that on the show. Every time Sheldon has been confronted about his relationship with Amy, he has been very mature about it. Very in control. Very careful. He has never denied anything but at the same time he has never provided more information than he feels comfortable providing. He is careful not to risk and take steps before he is ready. Sometimes he gets prodded to move faster but I actually don't think he's being pushed. Take Stuart for example. Many see that as an example that Sheldon needs to be pushed to move forward. But I actually think that if you look at the first 9 episodes of S5, there are many signs that Sheldon was already on the verge of asking Amy to be his girlfriend and that Stuart was only the catalyst for an event that was probably going to happen anyway. He karate-chops Leonard and he doesn't correct Raj in 5x04 when he says "Sheldon's with Amy". Sheldon already knew he wanted to alter the paradigm of their relationship, he was probably just buying time.

 

I think that's what Sheldon does. He buys time. And the 6x23 speech is a MASSIVE example of how good he is at buying time. Especially about stuff he has never experienced before and so is still trying to figure out for himself, like loving someone or seeing sex as an actual possibility. I don't think he lies to himself, nor does he lie to Amy. I think he just withholds information from her. He doesn't want to open himself up too much too soon, but I think he is much more aware of his emotions and has a better handle on them than people give him credit for. I think that's the reason why 6x14 is one of my favorite episodes ever, because I was so pleased that they didn't go the "Sheldon-freaks-out" route when it comes to him and sex, but actually had him be very mature and aware of his issues. His need for control doesn't mean he wants to be emotionless (although of course he doesn't want to be a 'hippie' either), or to not move forward, it just means things need to move at a pace he is comfortable with and he has to be 100% sure before he makes a move. But if he's even 90% sure he will probably make the move anyway with a little prodding. And if he just isn't ready he won't do it (see Amy moving in). Which is why the whole argument that Amy is forcing him to do things and change is completely invalid.

 

The one thing we do know about him is that he is very proud and very stubborn. The only time we've ever seen him act like he's in denial it's when it concerned being wrong, be it about biology, or being jealous of Amy, or Zachary Quinto. When he went to Penny in 5x10 he KNEW he was jealous, he just needed to give himself a push to admit it to someone else. When he went to apologize to Amy in her lab he KNEW he was wrong, he just tried to come away from it with as much pride as possible. I do think Sheldon's biggest enemy is his pride.

 

And I think that's actually what I like about the show. It doesn't overdramaticize someone like Sheldon by trying to provide some deep, poignant explanation for how he behaves and tries to sell him as this tortured beautiful mind. It is probably because it's a sitcom, and if they were writing a drama they would go down a more cinematographic route, but, ironically enough since dramas are always considered closer to reality than comedies, I think they are very realistic in the way they portray him. Despite all his cartoonish quirks. 

 

Aaaand, I'm out. Sorry for the essay

 

My two cents: While I do not in any way disagree with the main premise behind this, I have to say this isn't a black and white issue. There are spots of gray here, and there are marks of the "tortured soul suppressing emotions" in Sheldon. I don't believe this is because he doesn't want to feel these things or that he isn't an emotional person. We know for a fact that he is. I think it's more that the feelings he experiences--especially in relation to Amy--are very new to him. I also don't think he is asexual. I think it is more a case of he has never felt sexual arousal in a romantic situation before.

 

I agree with you that he is very cautious in nature. But, I also think he holds himself back at times when his emotions would have him pushing forward. You could see this as side-stepping a situation, playing dumb, being prideful, or even buying himself time, but you could also see it as suppressing what his emotions are telling him to do. He had obviously been considering making Amy his girlfriend for a long time, but he suppressed the urge to do so until the catalyst of Stuart was brought into play. Even then, when given the opportunity to deny Stuart's request to ask Amy out, he doesn't take it--which would have been far easier than him actually making her his girlfriend. Not only is he suppressing his emotions here by not doing so, but, to me, he is lying to himself and to everyone else about how it doesn't matter if Stuart asks her out. He told everyone else it didn't matter because Amy was only his friend. He told himself Amy would never want to go out with someone like Stuart. When both of those lies were brought to the light, he still does his best to suppress his emotions. He immerses himself in a card game with his friends (to the point of dressing up like a cowboy) and argues with them whenever they try to bring Amy up. Now, I can also see how this could be construed as buying time, prideful behavior, or being super cautious. But, I can also see how someone could look at the complex jewel of a character that is Sheldon Cooper and see a facet for "emotionally suppressed".

 

However, having said all this, I do agree it is a far too often used tool in fanfiction to explain the motives behind what he does.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Misophonia

[Sheps88]

My two cents: While I do not in any way disagree with the main premise behind this, I have to say this isn't a black and white issue. There are spots of gray here, and there are marks of the "tortured soul suppressing emotions" in Sheldon. I don't believe this is because he doesn't want to feel these things or that he isn't an emotional person. We know for a fact that he is. I think it's more that the feelings he experiences--especially in relation to Amy--are very new to him. I also don't think he is asexual. I think it is more a case of he has never felt sexual arousal in a romantic situation before.

 

I agree with you that he is very cautious in nature. But, I also think he holds himself back at times when his emotions would have him pushing forward. You could see this as side-stepping a situation, playing dumb, being prideful, or even buying himself time, but you could also see it as suppressing what his emotions are telling him to do. He had obviously been considering making Amy his girlfriend for a long time, but he suppressed the urge to do so until the catalyst of Stuart was brought into play. Even then, when given the opportunity to deny Stuart's request to ask Amy out, he doesn't take it--which would have been far easier than him actually making her his girlfriend. Not only is he suppressing his emotions here by not doing so, but, to me, he is lying to himself and to everyone else about how it doesn't matter if Stuart asks her out. He told everyone else it didn't matter because Amy was only his friend. He told himself Amy would never want to go out with someone like Stuart. When both of those lies were brought to the light, he still does his best to suppress his emotions. He immerses himself in a card game with his friends (to the point of dressing up like a cowboy) and argues with them whenever they try to bring Amy up. Now, I can also see how this could be construed as buying time, prideful behavior, or being super cautious. But, I can also see how someone could look at the complex jewel of a character that is Sheldon Cooper and see a facet for "emotionally suppressed".

 

However, having said all this, I do agree it is a far too often used tool in fanfiction to explain his motives behind what he does.

Exactly.

[koops]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that he isn't in denial about what he feels, as much as has an issue with admitting, especially to others, what he feels. I think suppressing what his emotions are telling him to do is different from suppressing his emotions or being unaware that he has them or being in denial about having them. 

 

I don't think he was suppressing his "desire" (for lack of a better word) to ask Amy to be his girlfriend, as much as was slowly working up to it and the whole Stuart situation threw him off track completely and when faced with his plans being derailed he resorted in denying to everyone around him that it bothered him. But that doesn't mean he didn't know it bothered him. But it explains why (ignoring the tv-magic for a moment) he had that RA ready within a couple of hours of asking Amy to be his girlfriend. He must had been working on that thing for a while, to have it ready there and then. Or why he would pick the perfect quote from Spiderman on the spot. Or react so calmly to Penny inquiring about his personal life. Or be able to say that their relationship isn't *ready* (again, time issue) for the level of intimacy that comes with living together, or how much *faster* can this thing go or how it's *only been three years* and so on. It always come down to time with him. He never says "NO, I don't want this", it's always "I'm not ready". 

 

The main issue in their relationship, I feel, is that he (and the writers themselves, really) needs to realize that the world doesn't revolve around him and his schedules and his plans and that there are two people in the relationship and that he needs to get out of his comfort zone and take risks for the sake of Amy's happiness before it's too late. I think Jim said it very well about 6x23 when he mentioned how the only risks Sheldon takes is the roll of the dice, but he's only willing to go as far as he is comfortable. Or the whole snail on the back of a turtle metaphor BP used. He needs to dial down his control a notch or two, maybe more than he even needs to overcome his germphobia.

[Misophonia]

Nothing to add to koops's brilliant analysis but I just saw something that screamed Shamy on my dashboard so I am sharing:

“The best kiss is the one that has been exchanged a thousand times between the eyes before it reaches the lips.”

 

If that is the case, we must be on 999th eye-exchange for Shamy by now. Come on 1000 and the SIK!

 

LOL

[Guest DroneInTheSun]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that he isn't in denial about what he feels, as much as has an issue with admitting, especially to others, what he feels. I think suppressing what his emotions are telling him to do is different from suppressing his emotions or being unaware that he has them or being in denial about having them. 

 

Perfect, perfect, perfect. And this is actually canon, cf. The Decoupling Fluctuation: When I have a feeling, I know it. And it's somehow even worse that way, because if he wasn't aware of his feelings, you'd think maybe an epiphany à la Penny realising she's passionate about Leonard and her friends could be possible; but no, Sheldon knows how he feels, and also knows he doesn't want to talk about it, because he's not a hippie, thank you very much. That's definitely the approach I'm using in my fics anyway (although mine are one-shots so they don't really count.)

 

 

The main issue in their relationship, I feel, is that he (and the writers themselves, really) needs to realize that the world doesn't revolve around him and his schedules and his plans and that there are two people in the relationship and that he needs to get out of his comfort zone and take risks for the sake of Amy's happiness before it's too late. I think Jim said it very well about 6x23 when he mentioned how the only risks Sheldon takes is the roll of the dice, but he's only willing to go as far as he is comfortable. Or the whole snail on the back of a turtle metaphor BP used. He needs to dial down his control a notch or two, maybe more than he even needs to overcome his germphobia.

 

Bless your soul I hope you find twenty pounds on the ground tomorrow.

[koops]

Perfect, perfect, perfect. And this is actually canon, cf. The Decoupling Fluctuation: When I have a feeling, I know it. And it's somehow even worse that way, because if he wasn't aware of his feelings, you'd think maybe an epiphany à la Penny realising she's passionate about Leonard and her friends could be possible; but no, Sheldon knows how he feels, and also knows he doesn't want to talk about it, because he's not a hippie, thank you very much. That's definitely the approach I'm using in my fics anyway (although mine are one-shots so they don't really count.)

 

 

 

Bless your soul I hope you find twenty pounds on the ground tomorrow.

 

Only 20? I've run out of funding already and have to survive another month. I could use 50 at least. LOL.

 

Btw, that also applies to his friends as well as Amy. How many times has he tip-toed around the fact that he loves Leonard and done all sorts of awkward, hilarious, frustrating things that do show he cares but he won't admit it? Showing his feelings is a weakness to him, so he never does unless his back is against the wall. 

[phantagrae]

Perfect, perfect, perfect. And this is actually canon, cf. The Decoupling Fluctuation: When I have a feeling, I know it. And it's somehow even worse that way, because if he wasn't aware of his feelings, you'd think maybe an epiphany à la Penny realising she's passionate about Leonard and her friends could be possible; but no, Sheldon knows how he feels, and also knows he doesn't want to talk about it, because he's not a hippie, thank you very much. That's definitely the approach I'm using in my fics anyway (although mine are one-shots so they don't really count.)

 

 

 

Bless your soul I hope you find twenty pounds on the ground tomorrow.

 

Money, not weight...

 

I agree that it's too easy to see Sheldon as more "tortured" than he really is.

He's full of emotions, despite his desire to be like Spock or "Shelbot" or whatever.  And he's full of pride, which makes for an uneasy mix.  In some ways he's like a 9-yr-old boy who doesn't want his mother kissing him goodbye in front of his friends when she drops him off at school.

 

My theory about the RelAg and how he whips it up so fast is that A) he probably had some aspects of it in mind, and B )  he types really fast, and C) he's obssessive when it comes to such things.  He must have all kinds of contract templates saved on his computer. :D

When he had that conflict with Priya in the Agreement Dissection, he'd spent most of the evening going out with the girls, then at least 40 minutes at Amy's apartment afterward (I think he said she vomited off and on for 40 minutes) before he finally went home and typed up the revised RA for Leonard, including setting up his email countdown blackmail device.  In that case he mostly had to do some revisions, but he had to have banged that thing out pretty quickly as well.

 

At any rate, I do think that he works at controlling certain aspects of his feelings, especially if it involves admitting how deeply he is attached to his friends, or how hurt he might get in certain situations.  Whether that can be attributed to pride, bullying, or just a degree of social inexperience (how to admit to a girl that you like her as more than just a friend), I think can vary with the situation.

 

I find it kind of interesting how vulnerable each of the guys can be in front of the others.  Even though they tease each other mercilessly, each of them has cried or admitted to being crushed in front of the others.  I still love in the Wheaton Recurrence, after Penny leaves the bowling game the first time, that Sheldon says, "I'm not too proud to admit that I cried myself to sleep last night."

 

I do think that with Amy he is struggling with this aspect of feelings and pride and learning what it means to consider the feelings of another person when making certain kinds of decisions and learning that it's not all about him, which he has clearly struggled with.  He stumbles over things like paying attention to her needs, reading her reactions to things he says or does, and looking beyond his needs first.

 

I think there's a lot of interesting stuff to explore.

Edited June 26, 2013 by phantagrae