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The Shamy Thread! (Season 6 Edition-Spoilers)


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To be honest though, Rach, some of those people who complain about "haters" overreact a great deal. I once saw a completely innocuous review saying something like "This is so sweet it's giving me diabetes" with a smiley face that got totally attacked in the next chapter and labeled as "flames". There truly are writers who won't accept anything other than "OMG this is amazing!" as a review and everything else is flame. So I'm very wary of people who complain about receiving flames if they delete all the reviews that they don't fancy seeing on their profile. I don't believe it until I see it, you know?

 

I think fanfic is free for everyone to write and venture into and that there's an audience for everything, so people should be free to write for those who like whatever they are writing, but I also think that you can't make something public and only expect people to praise you for it. Even professionals get TONS of negative reviews. 

 

I wouldn't take it all too seriously, either way, as it's just fanfiction. One cannot expect only to have masterpieces out there, just as one cannot expect not to be criticized (positively or negatively) for posting something out there.

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Lio, will you marry me?! :p

 

I agree wholeheartedly that if one puts their work out there for public consumption, then there are going to be both positive and negative reactions.

 

I'm also very spoiled when it comes to reading fanfic because of the quantity and quality of TXF fic--and I've only ever scratched the surface in that fandom.  Just as with all fanfic, there was a lot of crap out there, but there were many, many, many very well-written stories that could rival any published works.

But in the fanfic folder at the Haven we still have rounds of "pet peeves" because there were many that arose there for the same reasons as in this fandom.

 

This situation reminds me of my younger sister's high school marching band.  For a time they had a band director who didn't like to criticize the kids, so many of the kids ended up having an unrealistic view of the quality of their performances.

I went to watch them at a competition and some of the kids were ragging on some other band, criticizing their performance and claiming that their own performance had been so much better.  It had not been, but they couldn't see it because they thought that everything they did was wonderful, because that's the message they got from their director.  Their performance was kind of sloppy and somewhat weak, but they hadn't been given the opportunity to improve because they didn't know they weren't that good.

 

Yes, it takes some bravery to put your story out there for the world to see, but that doesn't mean that you deserve praise and laurels just for doing it.  While posting fanfic is not a competition, that doesn't mean that the writers shouldn't strive for quality or that readers shouldn't hope for quality.

Why should I read something that is badly written, or worse, lazily written, just because someone pushed the button and put it out there?  Why should anyone read it?  I can understand if it's the first time you've tried to write something, but then you should find yourself a strong beta reader who can hold your feet to the fire.  That doesn't mean that it's going to be perfect, but everyone needs an objective eye on their work.

 

I would hope that those who choose to post stories are always striving to get better.  If so, then this fandom could end up with some really great stories.  We've already got some good writers.  The more others can improve, then the more good stories we'll all have to read.

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Lio, will you marry me?! :p

 

I agree wholeheartedly that if one puts their work out there for public consumption, then there are going to be both positive and negative reactions.

 

I'm also very spoiled when it comes to reading fanfic because of the quantity and quality of TXF fic--and I've only ever scratched the surface in that fandom.  Just as with all fanfic, there was a lot of crap out there, but there were many, many, many very well-written stories that could rival any published works.

But in the fanfic folder at the Haven we still have rounds of "pet peeves" because there were many that arose there for the same reasons as in this fandom.

 

This situation reminds me of my younger sister's high school marching band.  For a time they had a band director who didn't like to criticize the kids, so many of the kids ended up having an unrealistic view of the quality of their performances.

I went to watch them at a competition and some of the kids were ragging on some other band, criticizing their performance and claiming that their own performance had been so much better.  It had not been, but they couldn't see it because they thought that everything they did was wonderful, because that's the message they got from their director.  Their performance was kind of sloppy and somewhat weak, but they hadn't been given the opportunity to improve because they didn't know they weren't that good.

 

Yes, it takes some bravery to put your story out there for the world to see, but that doesn't mean that you deserve praise and laurels just for doing it.  While posting fanfic is not a competition, that doesn't mean that the writers shouldn't strive for quality or that readers shouldn't hope for quality.

Why should I read something that is badly written, or worse, lazily written, just because someone pushed the button and put it out there?  Why should anyone read it?  I can understand if it's the first time you've tried to write something, but then you should find yourself a strong beta reader who can hold your feet to the fire.  That doesn't mean that it's going to be perfect, but everyone needs an objective eye on their work.

 

I would hope that those who choose to post stories are always striving to get better.  If so, then this fandom could end up with some really great stories.  We've already got some good writers.  The more others can improve, then the more good stories we'll all have to read.

 

I agree on everything you said, phanta, but one: Fan fiction is a competition (or it should be). It should be a chance for a writer to compete with themselves. Can I write this chapter better than the last? Can I improve this story over the last one I wrote? Can I make the characters even more realistic this time or come up with an even more exciting premise?

 

Like Lionne said above, all writers should constantly strive to improve their skills, and the only way to do that is by having your feet to some realistic flames. I think part of that includes competing against yourself to show growth and maturity. Another part is by being willing to accept criticism in all forms. (Even the "haters" have a grain of truth in what they are saying.) If you are constantly surrounded by positive, reassuring feedback, that's nice. But at what point can you grow and mature? Where's the incentive, the drive?

 

As a writer, I am never satisfied with my work. Not really. Even if everyone loves my stuff (and, believe me, there has never been a time when EVERYONE loves it. There are actually some who don't like it at all), I still know it can be better. It is also this knowledge that keeps me coming back to the keyboard time and again.

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I agree on everything you said, phanta, but one: Fan fiction is a competition (or it should be). It should be a chance for a writer to compete with themselves. Can I write this chapter better than the last? Can I improve this story over the last one I wrote? Can I make the characters even more realistic this time or come up with an even more exciting premise?

 

Like Lionne said above, all writers should constantly strive to improve their skills, and the only way to do that is by having your feet to some realistic flames. I think part of that includes competing against yourself to show growth and maturity. Another part is by being willing to accept criticism in all forms. (Even the "haters" have a grain of truth in what they are saying.) If you are constantly surrounded by positive, reassuring feedback, that's nice. But at what point can you grow and mature? Where's the incentive, the drive?

 

As a writer, I am never satisfied with my work. Not really. Even if everyone loves my stuff (and, believe me, there has never been a time when EVERYONE loves it. There are actually some who don't like it at all), I still know it can be better. It is also this knowledge that keeps me coming back to the keyboard time and again.

 

Well, I meant not a competition in that we're not competing against each other to declare ourselves the best writer or whatever.  We're not competing for money or accolades or prizes, per se.

And I do agree that each writer should be trying to be better each time they write.

 

I think that's one reason I'm so slow (apart from not being disciplined about sitting down to write.)  I write and re-write and read and re-read and fine tune each sentence or paragraph or line of dialogue until it feels or sounds right to me.

It still may not be perfect in someone else's eyes, but I'm trying to write the best sentence I can write, to use exactly the right word to depict exactly the right thought or picture or sound or feeling.  And to write with my own voice.

 

I think that the only way to learn is to have someone tell you what's good and bad in your writing.  As a musician who has suffered through countless lessons (which are mostly an hour of constructive criticism that can sometimes tear you apart), and rehearsals (where you can end up sucking in front of all your colleagues) and masterclasses (where you have a lesson in what you're doing right and not-so-right in front of your peers), I know all about the process of being both praised and criticized at the same time and learning to be your own teacher--to listen to yourself with a critical ear and not let yourself get away with bad habits.

 

If you're going to write, you also have to learn to be your own teacher, as well as learning to accept the tutelage of others.  It's the only way to grow.

Edited by phantagrae

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Guest DroneInTheSun

See I'm losing you here - not everyone writes because they want to improve their skills. I know I don't. I have no interest in being professionally published - which is probably why I don't write my own stuff - and I do fanfictions only because I want to have fun and play with my favourite characters and/or universes. I'm not here to learn anything, I'm just here to share with people. Which is why I totally understand why some people do not want negative critics at all, ever. It's like telling a five years old who made a pearl necklace that he could have done it better but hey it's okay you'll do another one tomorrow, when really, all he wanted was just make one now to pass the time and has no interest whatsoever in doing another one tomorrow. Your words just crushed him for nothing.

I personally don't mind criticism but the reason why I barely ever ask for it in my author's notes (the only times I do is when I'm writing about a character/pairing for the first time and I want opinions on the characterization more than grammar/spelling/style) is that even if I'm given very sensible advice on my style or my plot, I probably just won't listen to it, simple as that. 

The only times I'll take critics into consideration is regarding characterization, because it's the one thing I'm looking for myself as a fanfic reader, and it's what I strive to accomplish: reading the characters as they are on the show. To me there's no much point in changing the characters so much you don't recognize them, which is why any story that proudly claims they're OOC aren't stories I'm going to read. I know my own characterization of the Shamy is far from perfect, but I'm trying, because that's what I want to do, and when I fail (which is basically all the time) it annoys me and I try again (you now know why I write so much one-shots. I'm just trying to get good before I can go on to a longer fic). And then my style stinks but I don't really care, because I'm not interested in becoming a published writer.

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I dislike the re-use of lines from the show--and I think I'm getting tired of having Sheldon call Amy a "vixen", or do it too often or something.

 

Oh, and somebody recently had a moment where Amy called Sheldon a vixen--WRONG.  It was a good story, by someone I like, I think, but Sheldon cannot be a "vixen"--and Amy would know better.

A "vixen" is a female fox...or otherwise referrs to a woman.  :p

 

That was me, phanta, but I forgive you since you say you like me.  :)

 

I sum up all of the complex discussion with a very wise saying we have in the South --

 

"Different Strokes For Different Folks."

Edited by BazingaFan

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That was me, phanta, but I forgive you since you say you like me.  :)

 

I sum up all of the complex discussion with a very wise saying we have in the South --

 

"Different Strokes For Different Folks."

 

You mean the vixen part?  Well, it was one bit in an overall good story. :)

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See I'm losing you here - not everyone writes because they want to improve their skills. I know I don't. I have no interest in being professionally published - which is probably why I don't write my own stuff - and I do fanfictions only because I want to have fun and play with my favourite characters and/or universes. I'm not here to learn anything, I'm just here to share with people. Which is why I totally understand why some people do not want negative critics at all, ever. It's like telling a five years old who made a pearl necklace that he could have done it better but hey it's okay you'll do another one tomorrow, when really, all he wanted was just make one now to pass the time and has no interest whatsoever in doing another one tomorrow. Your words just crushed him for nothing.

I personally don't mind criticism but the reason why I barely ever ask for it in my author's notes (the only times I do is when I'm writing about a character/pairing for the first time and I want opinions on the characterization more than grammar/spelling/style) is that even if I'm given very sensible advice on my style or my plot, I probably just won't listen to it, simple as that. 

The only times I'll take critics into consideration is regarding characterization, because it's the one thing I'm looking for myself as a fanfic reader, and it's what I strive to accomplish: reading the characters as they are on the show. To me there's no much point in changing the characters so much you don't recognize them, which is why any story that proudly claims they're OOC aren't stories I'm going to read. I know my own characterization of the Shamy is far from perfect, but I'm trying, because that's what I want to do, and when I fail (which is basically all the time) it annoys me and I try again (you now know why I write so much one-shots. I'm just trying to get good before I can go on to a longer fic). And then my style stinks but I don't really care, because I'm not interested in becoming a published writer.

 

No one is talking about striving to be "publishable" in the real world.

But you obviously do care about improving your writing in that you seek to get the characterization right.  If you can write coherent sentences, or you can say more or less what you want to say, that's half the battle.

But as you say, you're trying to get things right so that you can go on to a longer fic--that's self-improvement that you're striving for, because you want to get it right.

 

That's pretty much all we're talking about in terms of people wanting or not wanting constructive criticism.  If you can be your own self-critic, to read your story with a critical, thinking eye, then that's pretty much what we're talking about.

But some people just throw something out there with no care as to quality or craft and then don't want anything but pats on the back.

 

And there's nothing that says they can't post crap if they want to.  But what we were talking about is cliches and overuse and laziness in writing.  Obviously you're striving to do something more.

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Guest DroneInTheSun

I'm with you on that, I don't want to write complete shit either and I do have some big pet peeves that I've listed in this very topic. But I'm not going to lie, some of the things that have been said by Lio and, to a lesser extent, by Miso, I've found to be extremely condescending and pedantic. Maybe that's just me misunderstanding what Lio said, but I really failed to see what her Ivy Education had to do with all of this, for example. 

Some people don't care about excellence. They don't even care about being half-good. They don't care about plot and grammar and they don't care about characterization either. Maybe they just have really shitty lives and see fanfiction as a way to escape from that. And that's why they don't want negative criticism on their one outlet on top of that. 

This is why I don't review anything when I don't like the fic. And Lio doesn't either, which is good, but when you go and add that writers should be thankful for criticism, I just don't agree at all.

It's not fanfiction, but I'm really active on tumblr. I make gifs, edits and graphics and I also post a lot of opinions because I'm a very opinionated girl (always stating the obvious!). Well, whenever someone - more often than not an anonymous user - sends me an ask to tell me my edits are ugly and my opinion stupid, I get really, really angry and sad because my blog is literally my only safe space and the only thing keeping me sane at time. And I don't want to deal with those critics because I feel they have no right to come here and tell me how to run my own blog because they're ruining it. Most of the time, I'll just turn anonymous questions off for weeks. Last year I even stopped blogging for two months because I had the luck to snatch away a canon url (ronweasley, as in Harry Potter character Ron Weasley) and jealous people were sending me hate.

Well maybe it's the same thing for those people who think a single little criticism is a bad thing. Maybe fanfiction is their only safe space and they don't want people to come in and ruin their fun. Maybe that's why they go on hiatus just like I did when someone criticizes them.

This isn't being complacent. This isn't wanting only pats on the back. It's just wanting to leave the shit behind and have some fun. I don't see what's wrong with that.

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I've just put my first fic up in your fan fiction section and would welcome your honest reviews. I've had a few loves, some likes, some hates and some disappointed reviews (which you'll see if you click on the link).

It's called The Correlation Coefficient Experiment and I'd love your opinions.

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Well, I think there's criticism and criticism. I do think criticism is good, regardless, and that people should be thankful for any feedback they get, be it negative or positive, because it does help improve, if one wants to. It's then up to you whether you want take the criticism on board or not, depending on the reasons you write your stories for. Like I said, there are options to block reviews if one really doesn't want to receive any. But if you publish something you are encouraging people to read it and people will have an opinion, whether you like it or not. I mean, at the end of the day that's what we're all doing here with the show. We are constantly criticizing or praising them and giving (more or less aggressive) suggestions as to how they should write the show. The difference being the writers get paid to write it and we don't. 

 

Having said that, I personally don't feel like being the pedantic one that goes and reviews every single story they read, just because I don't want to be a pain in the a-s-s and lecture people. I'm not a professional writer either, so what do I know. All my writing experience comes from writing essays and scientific papers and I might be talking out of my a-s-s when it comes to fiction. I always thought I'm pretty crap at fiction anyway and I'm more of a script/dialogue person. So I generally just review when I really like the story/chapter. 

Edited by koops

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See I'm losing you here - not everyone writes because they want to improve their skills. I know I don't. I have no interest in being professionally published - which is probably why I don't write my own stuff - and I do fanfictions only because I want to have fun and play with my favourite characters and/or universes. I'm not here to learn anything, I'm just here to share with people. Which is why I totally understand why some people do not want negative critics at all, ever. It's like telling a five years old who made a pearl necklace that he could have done it better but hey it's okay you'll do another one tomorrow, when really, all he wanted was just make one now to pass the time and has no interest whatsoever in doing another one tomorrow. Your words just crushed him for nothing.

I personally don't mind criticism but the reason why I barely ever ask for it in my author's notes (the only times I do is when I'm writing about a character/pairing for the first time and I want opinions on the characterization more than grammar/spelling/style) is that even if I'm given very sensible advice on my style or my plot, I probably just won't listen to it, simple as that. 

The only times I'll take critics into consideration is regarding characterization, because it's the one thing I'm looking for myself as a fanfic reader, and it's what I strive to accomplish: reading the characters as they are on the show. To me there's no much point in changing the characters so much you don't recognize them, which is why any story that proudly claims they're OOC aren't stories I'm going to read. I know my own characterization of the Shamy is far from perfect, but I'm trying, because that's what I want to do, and when I fail (which is basically all the time) it annoys me and I try again (you now know why I write so much one-shots. I'm just trying to get good before I can go on to a longer fic). And then my style stinks but I don't really care, because I'm not interested in becoming a published writer.

 

I am gonna regret this, but here goes:

 

Yeah, Lost, I guess you are losing me. I am in no way saying that every fan fiction author out there should be working towards some kind of professional writing career. Heck, I am not even writing fan fiction to get better for some later professional career of my own. I don't have to. I have my own stories if that is what I wanted. I write fan fiction because I enjoy it and because the questions I have about Shamy aren't going to be answered on the show anytime soon. People should write because it's fun first. I totally agree. However, as a writer--professional or otherwise--I am always trying to hone my skills. I don't think that makes me some kind of writing snob. I think it makes me human. Even when writing was no more than a hobby I did when I felt like it, I wrote with the mindset of trying to get better. Otherwise, what the heck are you doing? Lazy writing, bad grammar, atrocious spelling and a general incomprehension of careless, strung together sentences is a real epidemic--not just in fan fiction, but in the world. To have the mindset that "I am what I am so people better read it anyway because I have no interest in getting better" is--to me--the same as the people who pronounce every bit of criticism (including having the characters do something that is totally wrong and out of character) as "haters got to hate."

 

Yet, if this is what you want to do, go ahead. More power to you. However, you can't gripe and complain when other people have issues with what you put out there. You also can't go on and on about how other people overuse cliches and have the characters doing what you don't think they should or would do. Why do you even care what those writers are doing? After all, aren't they just doing what you're doing? Aren't they just writing to have fun and play with the characters?

 

I got no issue with people who don't have award-winning writing skills. Honestly, most authors who are published lack award-winning writing skills. But, I do have a problem with people who don't learn from their past mistakes--not just in writing, but in any venture they take on. If you're going to do something, do it to the best of your ability or don't even bother.

 

Finally, comparing honest criticism of someone's writing with being cruel to a five-year-old for not making a perfect necklace doesn't balance out. Not only is that a child, but that is a one-off thing he or she is doing. But, if you have a writer--such as yourself--who has put out a lot of stories on the same subject, I would hope you would want to get better. Otherwise, what is the point? Plus, what makes you any different than those people who just keep writing the same tired cliches over and over again and giving it a new title? Wasn't it frustration at that which got us talking about pet peeves in the first place?

 

Yeah, I knew I would regret this. But, all the same, I'm not deleting it.

Edited by Misophonia
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I'm with you on that, I don't want to write complete shit either and I do have some big pet peeves that I've listed in this very topic. But I'm not going to lie, some of the things that have been said by Lio and, to a lesser extent, by Miso, I've found to be extremely condescending and pedantic. Maybe that's just me misunderstanding what Lio said, but I really failed to see what her Ivy Education had to do with all of this, for example. 

Some people don't care about excellence. They don't even care about being half-good. They don't care about plot and grammar and they don't care about characterization either. Maybe they just have really shitty lives and see fanfiction as a way to escape from that. And that's why they don't want negative criticism on their one outlet on top of that. 

This is why I don't review anything when I don't like the fic. And Lio doesn't either, which is good, but when you go and add that writers should be thankful for criticism, I just don't agree at all.

It's not fanfiction, but I'm really active on tumblr. I make gifs, edits and graphics and I also post a lot of opinions because I'm a very opinionated girl (always stating the obvious!). Well, whenever someone - more often than not an anonymous user - sends me an ask to tell me my edits are ugly and my opinion stupid, I get really, really angry and sad because my blog is literally my only safe space and the only thing keeping me sane at time. And I don't want to deal with those critics because I feel they have no right to come here and tell me how to run my own blog because they're ruining it. Most of the time, I'll just turn anonymous questions off for weeks. Last year I even stopped blogging for two months because I had the luck to snatch away a canon url (ronweasley, as in Harry Potter character Ron Weasley) and jealous people were sending me hate.

Well maybe it's the same thing for those people who think a single little criticism is a bad thing. Maybe fanfiction is their only safe space and they don't want people to come in and ruin their fun. Maybe that's why they go on hiatus just like I did when someone criticizes them.

This isn't being complacent. This isn't wanting only pats on the back. It's just wanting to leave the shit behind and have some fun. I don't see what's wrong with that.

 

If someone doesn't care about being half-good, doesn't care about plot or grammar or characterization, what are they doing writing anything?  The point of writing a fanfic is to tell some kind of story, set some kind of scene, communicate something, whatever it is.  The best way to do that is to be as clear as possible, and that has to do with trying to write well--good grammar, a coherent story, etc.

 

I don't think that asking for someone to make an effort is too much to expect if the writer wants people to read their work.  Why would they want to post something that is difficult to read?

 

I also don't think that offering constructive criticism is destroying their safe place, especially if they're posting it on a public forum.  If they don't want anyone having a negative opinion about it, why make it public?

 

Yeah, they can post whatever they want and disable comments or ignore them or whatever, but if they don't care about quality, why would they bother doing it in the first place?

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Guest DroneInTheSun

I also don't think that offering constructive criticism is destroying their safe place, especially if they're posting it on a public forum.  If they don't want anyone having a negative opinion about it, why make it public?

 

Yeah, they can post whatever they want and disable comments or ignore them or whatever, but if they don't care about quality, why would they bother doing it in the first place?

 

Idk, maybe because they want to meet other people through their writing? Maybe because they're reaching out to other people on the Internet because they can't reach out to anyone else irl?

 

 

If someone doesn't care about being half-good, doesn't care about plot or grammar or characterization, what are they doing writing anything?  The point of writing a fanfic is to tell some kind of story, set some kind of scene, communicate something, whatever it is.  The best way to do that is to be as clear as possible, and that has to do with trying to write well--good grammar, a coherent story, etc.

 

I don't think that asking for someone to make an effort is too much to expect if the writer wants people to read their work.  Why would they want to post something that is difficult to read?

 

If that's what you strive to achieve, then good for you. But it's definitely not the same for everyone. There isn't a hard set of rules about fanfiction (except for you know, plagiarism sucks and please warn for any disturbing content)

 

I'm just finding you quite judgemental tbh. We are not entitled to a fandom free of bad fic.

 

 

Yet, if this is what you want to do, go ahead. More power to you. However, you can't gripe and complain when other people have issues with what you put out there. You also can't go on and on about how other people overuse cliches and have the characters doing what you don't think they should or would do. Why do you even care what those writers are doing? After all, aren't they just doing what you're doing? Aren't they just writing to have fun and play with the characters?

 

I'm not even going to answer to the rest because we're obviously never going to agree so what the hell, but I stand my ground that there is an honest difference between saying "I'm tired of seeing this because it's overused" and saying "I'm tired of seeing this because I love excellence and have an Ivy Education". One of them is terribly condescending. The other is rather harmless.

 

 

Finally, comparing honest criticism of someone's writing with being cruel to a five-year-old for not making a perfect necklace doesn't balance out. Not only is that a child, but that is a one-off thing he or she is doing. But, if you have a writer--such as yourself--who has put out a lot of stories on the same subject, I would hope you would want to get better. Otherwise, what is the point? Plus, what makes you any different than those people who just keep writing the same tired cliches over and over again and giving it a new title? Wasn't it frustration at that which got us talking about pet peeves in the first place?

 

Nothing, I guess. I don't think I'm better than everyone who writes clichés just because I don't have twins or an Amy makeover, because I'm not.

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I have written about a dozen essays and then deleted them all. I definitely see both sides of the issue here - there are many reasons why people write fan fiction or consume entertainment. Some people are out for escapism, and they would prefer a safe bubble in which to do that that's lighthearted, doesn't take itself seriously, and there's not a lot of the deep analysis or opinionated statements which can lead to heated discussion. Some people need to think deeply about what they interact with, and they love to analyze it and can never get bored with that, even if other people think they're beating a dead horse or discussing it to death. I think that the desire to critique and analyze is valid too.

 

Fan fiction gets more complicated because writing is extremely personal, and even those who have more experience putting their writing up for critique will still get hurt and be sensitive about their work. You can develop a thicker skin and get better at filtering the feedback, but there's always a little part of your ego that flinches at first when someone says something negative or points out problems in your work. Koops used a great example of someone taking a comment which was meant as praise as a flame. It reminds me of Hagrid, one of the most insane people when it came to his pets and undomesticated animals, noting that "everyone is a little touchy about their pets." People are sensitive about their artistic works as well, even the professionals. It's a subject that's going to bring out the touchy side in everyone, and the way this conversation has gone, where we're talking about stereotypes in fan fiction to why the hell people write fan fiction in the first place to the standards people have for the fan fiction they read to whether we have a right to bitch about this in a broad sense or if we're going to hurt people's feelings, it's gotten a little too broad to sort out all of the various arguments anymore.

 

In any case, my intention is not to be condescending. One of my degrees is in English with a concentration in Creative Writing, and the truth is that once you get extensive training in any field you can't untrain yourself from it. I am thinking of the Rubber Band syndrome, which posits that "Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions." This is my training, and it's ingrained, it's something I bring to the table that I can't undo, and it's relevant to the way I read anything, honestly. I've been trained to critique, to the degree to which it's second nature - that's what an education does. I'm not trying to make anyone else operate at this level, but I feel that I have been told that I should just sit back and enjoy the fan fiction, or just focus on the positive and ignore the bad stuff, or just not take things too seriously - and I can't. I've been trained out of it. You don't have to like that and you can find it condescending if you want, but it's the truth.

 

Like I tried to say in my original post at length, I really don't want anyone who writes fan fiction to stop or to stop enjoying it because I think it's a good thing for everyone to try it - there's so much to learn in doing so, even if you are only doing it for fun. I think you can try to say you're only writing fan fiction for fun, but I believe you're still learning something from the experience no matter how hard you try not to. ;)

 

As for the issue of whether or not some of us are being "mean" because we're talking about tropes we're tired of seeing in fan fiction because other people who write fan fiction can see our comments....not sure if we're being mean or not. Perhaps we are, I'm a little too befuddled by how complicated the conversation has gotten to know anymore.

Edited by Lionne
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I think it's fanfiction, at the end of the day. It's not meant to be taken seriously, and if some people just don't want to take on feedback and criticism is their loss and we are free not to continue reading their work. I am puzzled by people who want to turn these characters into other people, or people who can't string a sentence together, but I guess some other readers aren't as picky and just don't have grammar and characterization as a priority. And far be it from me to deprive them of the stories they like to read.

 

On the other hand though, I'm not going to pretend it's good, or bend over backwards to find something good to say, if I can't. If you do publish something, don't expect all roses and rainbows. If you can't accept negative reviews or, yes, even flaming, then maybe you're not cut for making your work public. If you're putting it out there it means you want people to read it. It just reminds me of those people on these boards who just cannot accept disagreement and want people to only tell them "You're right, what a wonderful point you're making" or they cry that they're being persecuted and misunderstood. If you're making a post, or fanfic, public, people are bound to disagree at some point. If you write terribly and, despite people telling you you do and that maybe you should stop and re-think your points a little, don't change anything about your style, then I don't think you have a right to complain about the "haters": either ignore it, and write for the people who like your stuff, or stop treating your reviewers as if they were all idiots who don't know what they're talking about. 

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Hey folks, I've been going mainly to chat lately and staying out of the threads, but it's nice to check in and see what's going on.  Looks like a spirited discussion.  My apologies for posting something off-topic here, but I've looked around and can't find a thread where it seems on-topic.  Anyway, my question is:  Friday is the TBBT panel at Comic-Con, and I know it's a scaled-back version this year but I still want to see it.  Does anyone know of a place where it's being broadcast or posted?  Will it be on Hulu?

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Guest DroneInTheSun

That's beautiful! I really like that; jealous you got it. :)

 

It says there are eight posters still available, you can totally order one if you want to!

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