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6.11 The Santa Simulation (Dec. 13)


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I really appreciate those moments where we get to see Sheldon open up about something.

It would have been great to see the guys and girls together and have some touching moments between them but it's okay, I enjoyed the episode anyway.

Monique

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Raj's character is a perfect example of why the people who say they want the characters to go back to the way they were in seasons 1 & 2 are wrong. His character is just like it was in seasons 1

The whole controversy over the so-called "dark Santa" is ludicrous.  It was a dream.  DId it occur to anyone that just perhaps Sheldon was feeling a little guilty about his reaction to saving Santa in

I couldn't agree more.  If they ever have an episode where one of the girls are eating somewhere and asks a stranger for some salt, he gives it to her, and she says thanks, then we will be hearing abo

IMO, there doesn't always have to be "resolution" to a story line.  It depends on what the story is and also there is usually an implied ending.  Not everythinng in life gets resolved in a conclusive way.

I don't think that the point of Raj going out with the girls was meant to be a lead in to resolving his sad, lonely state.  That's going to go on indefinitely until the writers decide to finally put him in a position to somehow get over his mutism, either with therapy or medication or whatever.  I don't think there's supposed to be a real question about his sexuality that hasn't already been addressed. I think that the gag about him not knowing what his comments sound like is the joke, not that he's supposed to be sexually ambivalent.  While there are a lot of jokes at the expense of his sexuality, I do think that the writers intend him to be "metrosexual"--in touch with his feminine side, if you will, but still wanting to be with a woman sexually, not with a man.

On the few occasions where Raj has had just a little alcohol, or maybe has thought he has, he has actually been pretty charming.  It's just that if he has too much he goes over the top.  The best example was on the train with Summer Glau.  She was actually charmed by him and he was being pretty cool.  If Howard hadn't shown him that he hadn't actually had any alcohol, who knows how far he might have gotten with her.

Anyway, there's no way those issues are ever going to be resolved in any one episode.

 

And with Sheldon, I'm not sure what you expected in the way of an ending to either Sheldon's story about his Pop-Pop--I think that the story was that he resented Santa because Santa didn't deliver on Sheldon's wish.  Sheldon would of course have expected to get what he asked for, the way any child does, and being disappointed in not getting what he asked for, Sheldon apparently added Santa to his mortal enemies list or something.

IMO, the Santa story is its own resolution--what's the real reason Sheldon doesn't enjoy Christmas? Is it really having a tree indoors and overuse of 'tis and 'twas and single stockings?  Maybe those things bother him to some degree, but his real resentment is that Santa didn't come through with his Pop-Pop.  That's the end of that story for the moment. I don't think there's anything more to be said unless they were going to spend the episode talking him through it or something.

 

As for Leonard, I'm not sure what resolution you were thinking there would be on that front, either.  Again, it was its own ending.  Leonard was making an effort to have some Christmas fun and Sheldon kind of ruined it.  That's the story.

Whether or not he had a nice Christmas with Penny the next night or on Christmas Eve or whatever doesn't really come to bear.  It's just the story of what happened on this particular night, and we saw the resolution of the story.  They were trying to have fun and Sheldon killed the party.  And Santa along with it, apparently...

 

I liked that Sheldon dreamed about Santa trying to explain that there were certain things that he just couldn't do, but I would have liked for it to have gone a different direction--maybe with Sheldon demanding a better explanation, because if Sheldon really understands that, then why would he have held a grudge against Santa all these years?  Or maybe Santa could have put him on the naughty list, or given him a lump of coal or whatever.

I think they were trying to find some funny ending with Sheldon dreaming that Santa would get him back for leaving him to rot, but just hit a weird note with the cannon thing.

In earlier versions of the ending, Santa had a shotgun and was blasting all over the apartment--the cereal boxes, etc., and in one version he aimed the cannon at Sheldon's spot on the couch.  I think they just wanted some kind of mayhem ending to Sheldon's dream.

But as for resolution, I don't think there's really a point to be resolved.  The dream about revengeful Santa was the resolution to Sheldon's rant.

 

While the show is not an endless saga of continuity and ongoing storylines the way some shows are, they do sometimes harken back to something brought up in previous episodes.  But not everything demands a follow up and not everything is that important in the grand scheme of things and something things are specifically mentioned and then set on the back burner to be brought up later.

 

Well , first of all let me just me say that I really liked this episode(in-fact I liked this more than the last two episodes :)).. especially the boys part as the build-up to the twist and the twist(about Sheldon's childhood issue) were both brilliant

 

But the thing is the writers did all the hard work and then just left Sheldon and Raj to remain forever who they are now

 

I thought the dream sequence was silly because -- I frankly don't care whether Santa gets his revenge or not... I would have cared to see how Sheldon changes because of this..or atleast the writers should have attempted to address Leonard's desire to have a fun christmas.....but no..they just made Sheldon think all about himself and march off and have that lame dream

 

And as far as Raj is lonely considered...the writers have been dancing around this theme for the past 2-3 seasons..so its a quite well established fact....so when you have an entire plot about this(which I found quite funny).....I would like to see a resolution...atleast something

 

I think that Sheldon's look at Leonard in the ring ep doesn't necessarily mean that he knew or suspected anything specific--obviously Penny was talking to Leonard and was implying that he had the option to hold onto the ring or go and be with her.  Even if Sheldon had no idea what the significance of the bag being from Victoria's Secret meant, he would still be curious as to what Leonard was going to do.  I don't think that has to do with understanding what she meant.

 

I think that bostrich explained it best in saying that Sheldon obviously knows about sex, how babies are made, etc., and if the conversation is obviously and specfically about sex, he understands what's being talked about and may even participate.  But if the conversation is more subtle and only hinting at sex through double entendres or knowing glances or something, then he usually doesn't get it.

Sex and sexual references are never going to be the first thing that occurs to him if the conversation is subtle and relies on a person's social sophistication or worldly viewpoint.  Howard would get it all the time, or even turn everything into a sexual reference--like the "large chest".  While Sheldon may get it if the joke is obvious--as It was in that case--he's not going to be the one to immediately associate the words "large chest" with a woman's bosom.

 

I didn't notice his looks at Raj's comments, so I can't speak to those specfic references, or if he was reacting more to Stuart's reaction or what.  But I do agree with bostrich's explanation of his ability or inability to understand.

 

Well , agree with me or not...but Sheldon's reactions to double entendres just like his reactions to his phobia's(germs) depends on whether the plot needs it or not..or which kind of reaction will be funnier as it boils down to the fact that this show is a sitcom......

 

for example : in 5-02 we had an entire plot about Sheldon being not able to sit in a chair that Penny got...but in the next episode we have Sheldon putting a train in his mouth(yes , you can argue that he had it cleaned , sterilized..blah..blah..blah) ........ and Sheldon different reactions while in a hospital (3.08 and 4.23)........these all things boil down to the fact that this is a sitcom..That's it

 

And before anyone points out that I have to apply to the fact that this show is a sitcom to above two storylines....let me just say that storyline and gag's are two different things 

Edited by vasu
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it was not one of the best,(think kaley

said that should not do x-mass episode

after season#2)

raj--like only 9's or10's-see the girls faces

dark santa-that is chuck lorre for you, and

look what happend on friday with the killing

of the school kids in ct.

the best part was the fashion show-both

penny and bernie where HOT in there dress.

did howard all most fall out of his chair,when

he saw bernie in that. 

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So I watched the episode again and found one line that kinda irked me the wrong way when I heard it. That was raj's line about his "crush" on penny.

Something like "she got drunk and naked and crawled into bed with me... I guess I misread those signs"

That pissed me off because that really wasn't what happened and came off as an exageration of the truth.

She specifically said that night that she didn't want to sleep with him but ended up black out drunk which when depressed about Leonard and confronted with drunk raj who is knowingly very forward and horny when he's like that its not surprising things went where they did.

I just didn't like how raj tried to play himself off as the innocent guy on that scene I guess... idk I just don't like his character really anymore

 

Well , what happened that dark night in TBBT history is still pretty mysterious  :icon_eek:

 

But if we are supposed to believe what Raj told in 5-01 about the whole quick draw was true then I don't see any wrong in believing what he said in this episode is true  :icon_rolleyes:

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Raj's character is a perfect example of why the people who say they want the characters to go back to the way they were in seasons 1 & 2 are wrong. His character is just like it was in seasons 1 & 2 and it is the least interesting and pathetic character in the show. They need to have some character growth with Raj's character. I don't think this was a good episode for Raj's character, and it could have been if it was done right.

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I have been struggling since Thursday to decide exactly how I felt about this episode and now I think I've got it. I enjoyed the Christmas D&D, Sheldon's little rant and I prefer a dark Christmas story to the usual sitcom pulp about the holiday. I don't think Sheldon's story came out of nowhere. They showed the character getting into the Christmas spirit and then, because this is Sheldon, instead of embracing the holiday like usually happens he does an about-face. The goal of literally saving Christmas was ruined by Sheldon in one of his traditional grinch-like moves. Merry Christmas from Chuck. Love it. :)

My problem with the story was Raj, specifically after he left on the girls night. I feel like telling this character that the reason he can't get a woman isn't because he is shy or selectively mute, it's because he is an immature douche. I wish Penny or Bernie had hinted at this or the girls night had finished with a bit more self-realization from Raj about his own issues. He is becoming unlikeable.

I think the Raj character has a personality problem, he changes rapidly from scene to scene to serve the appropriate punch line. With the girls he is an unlikeable ass, with Stuart he spouts double entendres but with the three boys he is usually mild and charming. The writers are keeping this character stalled while development marches on in the rest of the main five. The Raj storyline in this episode went nowhere, and seemed like the writers felt as if they needed to give Kunal something to do. I guess the Amy/Raj bonding was nice, it followed up to Raj's comment in 6.01 that he and Amy had never really spoken. However, this conversation could have happened from Raj's side in S4. Amy has had far more development in the last two seasons. Raj's only major development has been that he realized alcohol allowed him to speak in S1. Has he had any real development since? Time to do something with this character.

Edited by bostrich
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Wow, what a strange little episode that was.  Someone obviously not feeling the christmas spirit this year?  But on  brighter note, my did you see Sheldon in his pyjamas, I should stop right here before I write something I may latter regret.  

 

These pyjamas?

 

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I've just watched it again and it's fabulous!! His grandfather was the only one in his family who encouraged him to pursue science. I almost missed that because as Pomita said, the monologue was so unexpected and he delivered it fast. Supremely acted! I can't stop watching it…

Of course a scientist who holds a grudge against santa claus is ridiculous. But Sheldon is a bit crackers and always has these kind of episodes. He has repressed rage and a bit of a dark side. Howard always makes comments about it. The threat to poison Kripke's tea was very dark IMO. And that time Penny got him to try acting, he went into improv about being sent away and then it got funny because he cried. This is the first time we get a full explanation. I loved it and I even liked his guilty dream of being blown up by Santa for holding such a stupid grudge for all those years. "ho ho ho, you big dork!" :icon_lol:

 

And don't forget he said  they should let Speckerman stay and then they could kill him.(or something similar).

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I love me a dark episode every once in a while, I like Sheldon when he is a little angry and angst.  I've watched this episode twice now and enjoyed it both times except the silly Raj innuendo lines, who wrote those lines, five year olds?  Anyway bypassing those I like the angst and the anger. 

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Raj's character is a perfect example of why the people who say they want the characters to go back to the way they were in seasons 1 & 2 are wrong. His character is just like it was in seasons 1 & 2 and it is the least interesting and pathetic character in the show. They need to have some character growth with Raj's character. I don't think this was a good episode for Raj's character, and it could have been if it was done right.

 

Urm not really. They have never known what to do with Raj. And this has been commented on many times. It's not a new complaint only noticed by fans who want character growth.

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I love me a dark episode every once in a while, I like Sheldon when he is a little angry and angst.  I've watched this episode twice now and enjoyed it both times except the silly Raj innuendo lines, who wrote those lines, five year olds?  Anyway bypassing those I like the angst and the anger. 

 

I can see why some people didn't, it was a shock. If you were expected some christmas cheer it certainly wasn't that. The way he just stood up and Howard says 'what are you doing?' and at the end he kicks out at Santa's imaginery belly. This is surprisingly physical for Sheldon, his aggression is usually words and scowling. Still I thought he was really good, he could use this one in the awards... maybe.

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<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="vasu" data-cid="76283" data-time="1355597253"><p>

Well , what happened that dark night in TBBT history is still pretty mysterious :icon_eek:<br />

<br />

But if we are supposed to believe what Raj told in 5-01 about the whole quick draw was true then I don't see any wrong in believing what he said in this episode is true :icon_rolleyes:</p></blockquote>

Yea its hard to know what really happened that night. The only thing that makes me think that Raj likely initiated or pursued it was because penny said that she did not want what happened to happen. Of course alcohol does funny things but I still don't see it happening without persistence on Raj's part

Edited by C-Trayne

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I can see why some people didn't, it was a shock. If you were expected some christmas cheer it certainly wasn't that. The way he just stood up and Howard says 'what are you doing?' and at the end he kicks out at Santa's imaginery belly. This is surprisingly physical for Sheldon, his aggression is usually words and scowling. Still I thought he was really good, he could use this one in the awards... maybe.

 

 

I liked the way he kicked in the air too.  think they are showing us more adult/grown up side of sheldon this season?  that's what struck me with when he did that.

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl
I can see why some people didn't, it was a shock. If you were expected some christmas cheer it certainly wasn't that. The way he just stood up and Howard says 'what are you doing?' and at the end he kicks out at Santa's imaginery belly. This is surprisingly physical for Sheldon, his aggression is usually words and scowling. Still I thought he was really good, he could use this one in the awards... maybe.

 

it isn't the first time though, he fought Leonard on the Physics Vortex, he hit him on Pulled Groin Extrapolation, and he wanted to fight Wil Wheaton on the Habitation Configuration. Itr woudln't be the first time he resorts to a physical reaction out of sudden anger.

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it isn't the first time though, he fought Leonard on the Physics Vortex, he hit him on Pulled Groin Extrapolation, and he wanted to fight Wil Wheaton on the Habitation Configuration. Itr woudln't be the first time he resorts to a physical reaction out of sudden anger.
Oh he did, I forgot about the two nerds fighting because they were so useless at it! He did karate chop Leonard but the Wil Wheaton scene was a bit off for me. Didn't like it. He's turning into his father. “That low-down polecat done wronged my woman.” 

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The whole controversy over the so-called "dark Santa" is ludicrous.  It was a dream.  DId it occur to anyone that just perhaps Sheldon was feeling a little guilty about his reaction to saving Santa in the game, or in his case, not saving him, and that is why he had a dream like that?  The show made it clear that it was a dream and that it didn't really happen, so don't get upset about it. 

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The whole controversy over the so-called "dark Santa" is ludicrous.  It was a dream.  DId it occur to anyone that just perhaps Sheldon was feeling a little guilty about his reaction to saving Santa in the game, or in his case, not saving him, and that is why he had a dream like that?  The show made it clear that it was a dream and that it didn't really happen, so don't get upset about it. 

Exactly. It's not like Santa's a holy image that not to be messed with.

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I liked Sheldon's dream at the end. I see Sheldon struggles with his Christian upbringing and while during the game he ridiculed much of Christmas tradition. So I think Santa's revenge in his dream is example of his inner struggle. Sorry, the therapist in me seeing things this way is an occupational hazard.

 

I would liked to have changed one joke in that scene. Instead iof sying he would kick Santa in his bowl full of jelly, I thought that it would have been funnier if he would have said he wanted to kick Santa in his jingle bells. :)

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Exactly. It's not like Santa's a holy image that not to be messed with.
Exactly. It's not like Santa's a holy image that not to be messed with.
The true story of Santa Claus originated from the deeds of Saint Nicholas (that is why Santa is also referred to as St. Nick). When his wealthy parents both died from a plague he sold all of his wealth and gave it to help the needy mostly poor children. The Emperor of Rome subsequently had him thrown in a dungeon and brutally tortured. (Sound familiar?)

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I liked Sheldon's dream at the end. I see Sheldon struggles with his Christian upbringing and while during the game he ridiculed much of Christmas tradition. So I think Santa's revenge in his dream is example of his inner struggle. Sorry, the therapist in me seeing things this way is an occupational hazard.

 

I would liked to have changed one joke in that scene. Instead iof sying he would kick Santa in his bowl full of jelly, I thought that it would have been funnier if he would have said he wanted to kick Santa in his jingle bells. :)

 

:icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="SodidIwin?" data-cid="76512" data-time="1355677829"><p>

The true story of Santa Claus originated from the deeds of Saint Nicholas (that is why Santa is also referred to as St. Nick). When his wealthy parents both died from a plague he sold all of his wealth and gave it to help the needy mostly poor children. The Emperor of Rome subsequently had him thrown in a dungeon and brutally tortured. (Sound familiar?)</p></blockquote>

That is true, BUT the modern depiction of Santa Claus is so far from the Catholic Saint it has lost all relation. Nowadays, Santa Claus belongs in the same league as the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc.

I men's, think about it: Mr Kringle is a married old man who lives in the North Pole and runs a factory full of elves where he manufactures toys for the kids that week good to then deliver them with the help of his magic raideers... hardly the story of St Nicholas.

Saint Nicholas of Bari is an entirely different thing, and it has been since the first part of the 20th century.

Edited by Sursonica
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The true story of Santa Claus originated from the deeds of Saint Nicholas (that is why Santa is also referred to as St. Nick). When his wealthy parents both died from a plague he sold all of his wealth and gave it to help the needy mostly poor children. The Emperor of Rome subsequently had him thrown in a dungeon and brutally tortured. (Sound familiar?)
That is true, BUT the modern depiction of Santa Claus is so far from the Catholic Saint it has lost all relation. Nowadays, Santa Claus belongs in the same league as the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc. I men's, think about it: Mr Kringle is a married old man who lives in the North Pole and runs a factory full of elves where he manufactures toys for the kids that week good to then deliver them with the help of his magic raideers... hardly the story of St Nicholas. Saint Nicholas of Bari is an entirely different thing, and it has been since the first part of the 20th century.
I must have missed that memo in my Catholic upbringing. Although the early 20th century is a very long time ago. My bad. So are these addendums of yours just to the Christian faith or are the teachings of all religions in your view irrelevant or out dated since the 20th century? Of course we could just pick and choose, after all I could have missed that memo also. Merry Christmas! Or was that outdated also in the early 20th century?

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="SodidIwin?" data-cid="76585" data-time="1355694891"><p>

I must have missed that memo in my Catholic upbringing. Although the early 20th century is a very long time ago. My bad. So are these addendums of yours just to the Christian faith or are the teachings of all religions in your view irrelevant or out dated since the 20th century? Of course we could just pick and choose, after all I could have missed that memo also. Merry Christmas! Or was that outdated also in the early 20th century?</p></blockquote>

I am a Catholic who assured religious school, so I do think I know what I'm talking about. Even though the modern depiction of Santa Claus was based somewhat in Saint Nicholas of Bari, the changes have been so drastic that is not the Catholic saint anymore. That's what I was taught by countless priests and nuns, and if you check your calendar you will see that Saint Nicholas day is December 6, not December 25. Santa Claus who lives in the north pole and has magic raiders has nothing to do anymore with an Italian Martyr.. Christmas is not even about Saint Nicholas anyway, it is about the birth of Jesus, so it is irrelevant.

But you have chosen to get offended anyway, so go ahead.

Edited by Sursonica

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I must have missed that memo in my Catholic upbringing. Although the early 20th century is a very long time ago. My bad. So are these addendums of yours just to the Christian faith or are the teachings of all religions in your view irrelevant or out dated since the 20th century? Of course we could just pick and choose, after all I could have missed that memo also. Merry Christmas! Or was that outdated also in the early 20th century?

I am a Catholic who assured religious school, so I do think I know what I'm talking about. Even though the modern depiction of Santa Claus was based somewhat in Saint Nicholas of Bari, the changes have been so drastic that is not the Catholic saint anymore. That's what I was taught by countless priests and nuns. Christmas is not even about Saint Nicholas anyway, it is about the birth of Jesus, so it is irrelevant. How about in the spirit of Christmas we just agree to disagree? :)

However, what I won't change my mind about is, no matter how Santa Claus came to be, it was extremely inappropriate, uncalled for and simply insensisitive in a family sitcom to have Revengeful Santa Clause blow up the apartment, Sheldon and (unless he was at Penny's :) ) Leonard. Whatever your view how and what Santa came to be / is one thing is for sure Santa Clause has always been the isence of goodness and giving. You want to see Santa Clause blow up and kill people go right ahead and make your day. But not on a family comedy. The movies have plenty of violent filled Santa Clause causing mayhem. The very big difference is the rating and the fact that they tell you ahead of time what you are in for so you can make your decision to watch or not. Drink all the TBBT koolaid you want but to me this is just another example of TPTB pushing the envelope when the time frame is still in the family watching time frame.

Edited by SodidIwin?

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How about in the spirit of Christmas we just agree to disagree? :)

However, what I won't change my mind about is, no matter how Santa Claus came to be, it was extremely inappropriate, uncalled for and simply insensisitive in a family sitcom to have Revengeful Santa Clause blow up the apartment, Sheldon and (unless he was at Penny's :) ) Leonard. Whatever your view how and what Santa came to be / is one thing is for sure Santa Clause has always been the isence of goodness and giving. You want to see Santa Clause blow up and kill people go right ahead and make your day. But not on a family comedy. The movies have plenty of violent filled Santa Clause causing mayhem. The very big difference is the rating and the fact that they tell you ahead of time what you are in for so you can make your decision to watch or not. Drink all the TBBT koolaid you want but to me this is just another example of TPTB pushing the envelope when the time frame is still in the family watching time frame.

 

And this is why Christmas isn't any such thing; this Monday starts the ancient Roman holiday of Saturnalia which went on to Dec 23; a time of gift-giving, parties, merry-making, evergreens strung up.  Gee does that sound familiar ? the later Christianized romans tried to stop it, but people liked it too much and *poof* suddenly we have Jesus officially being born in December, when I think in the story it's supposed to be  August. [Emperor Theodosius engineered this]

 

Anyway I thought it was a touching Saturnalia tale!

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