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6.11 The Santa Simulation (Dec. 13)


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For the second time, The Big Bang Theory featured the game of Dungeons & Dragons, a game that is very near and dear to the hearts of nerds and geeks everywhere and what can be considered a cornerstone of geek culture and for the second time, the writers and producers gave us a missed opportunity to introduce a wider audience to what is a wonderful and entertaining past time. I can only conclude that the reason for this is that the writers and producers of the show have little idea what exactly the game of Dungeons & Dragons is nor what it entails, as the activity depicted on last week’s show bears little resemblance to it.

For those who may not know, Dungeons & Dragons is a role playing game, a game where the players assume the role of a character different from themselves in a fantasy world within the context of a rules system. It was certainly not shown in the episode that Leonard and the gang were playing characters as they would have been doing had they been playing D&D. The players never referred to each other by a character name. There were no references to important tropes of D&D such as character classes or races. At no point were Sheldon, Raj, Howard, and Stewart required to roll a die. There was a play mat and miniature figures on the table that were never used. On the contrary, Sheldon was clearly depicting himself rather than a character in the game as he was making references to his own personal history rather that his character. This is something that would never happen in a game of D&D. I can only then wonder then exactly what Leonard and his friends were doing as they clearly weren't playing Dungeons & Dragons.

 

The Big Bang Theory walks a fine line between poking harmless fun at the “other,” in this case geeks, in an attempt to laugh with them, and being malicious and bullying by laughing at the characters on the show. The only way to be successful at the former and not indulge in the latter is to poke fun at the other from an insider’s point of view. The clear ignorance of the game of Dungeons & Dragons on the part of the writers of this episode caused them to lose this insider’s point of view and made what could have been a clever send up of a popular geek past time into something clearly derisive and intended to make fun of the players by depicted them as engaging in a foolish activity and labeling them as idiots for choosing to play this foolish game rather than have sex with their hot girl friends as any “normal” person would choose.

 

The episode would have been stronger if the writers had done their research and attempted to understand role playing games and chosen to have fun with Leonard and his gang by pointing out what is funny about this unusual past time rather than using the game as a thinly veiled excuse to invent absurd slapstick situations to mock and deride geeks and nerds. For example, if the writers really portrayed Dungeons & Dragons, Sheldon could have proved most annoying to his friends by insisting that they all stay in character at all times, calling them by the names of their D&D characters rather than their real names, and admonishing them any time they spoke out of character or used references that would be anachronistic or inappropriate within the context of the game. This how an individual as anal as Sheldon would really approach a role playing game as he would understand what is required of the medium and would pursue it to the maximum degree.

 

I've heard that the producers of The Big Bang Theory engage advisers to be sure that the math and physics references on the show are accurate. I only wish they would do the same when it comes to the aspects of geek culture they so often, and sometimes inaccurately, portray. Perhaps they should have asked their frequent guest star Wil Wheaton about Dungeons & Dragons, he could have told them all about it. To date, the only T.V. show to ever portray a proper game of D&D as it is actually played is the show Freaks and Geeks in their final episode “Discos and Dragons.” It’s disappointing that The Big Bang Theory can’t portray such an important part of geek culture with the same dignity and accuracy.

 

There's no reason to go into detail about the rules and nuances of playing D&D in a show like this.  They don't sit down and explain the nuances of every video game or card game or board game the guys play.  The role that D&D played in this episode was simply as a situation that led to the revelation of SHeldon's story.

 

And it's not the intent of the writers to try to recruit anyone into learning how to play D&D or anything else.  The point was to show Leonard making an effort to turn their game night into something with a little Christmas flavor and Sheldon taking it off the rails.

 

As for "staying in character", when my friends and I played an ongoing game over the course of about 3 years, I don't think we ever refered to each other by our characters' names.  And we did plenty of careful approaches and foolhardy blundering through doors.  And we didn't use a playing mat or a directed quest or figurines.

We had graph paper and a pencil for our map and we just groped our way through the dungeon that our friend had created, etc., etc.

 

However any group may play D&D, it's not the end-all and be-all of nerd/geek culture.  And in this case, it was mostly a means to an end, not the point itself.

 

I could go on and on about the handbell-playing scene--how would any of them have handbells just lying around the house, they weren't wearing gloves, etc., etc.--but again, the handbells were simply a means to an end, and a cute joke, not the point of the scene.

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Raj's character is a perfect example of why the people who say they want the characters to go back to the way they were in seasons 1 & 2 are wrong. His character is just like it was in seasons 1

The whole controversy over the so-called "dark Santa" is ludicrous.  It was a dream.  DId it occur to anyone that just perhaps Sheldon was feeling a little guilty about his reaction to saving Santa in

I couldn't agree more.  If they ever have an episode where one of the girls are eating somewhere and asks a stranger for some salt, he gives it to her, and she says thanks, then we will be hearing abo

I think he's a growing Sheldon.  This is a guy who has walked a fine line between child and grown up for several years before he even met Amy.

He has a grown up job and lives as an adult in an apartment, paying bills, etc., but his inner emotional life is largely childish and child-like.

His lack of sexual thought or experience is part of that, stemming primarily, I would think, from his unusual childhood and adolescence where he was removed from his age-peers and as a pre-pubescent boy was working on an intellectual level with adults, but was still emotionally a child.  And something of a coddled child, apparently, judging by his relaitonship with his mother.

 

But he's been changing little by little ever since Penny came on the scene and began to influence his life, and the lives of his friends.  They were all living in a sort of adolescent cocoon that they all indulged.  Though the others were somewhat sexually active, they were all still immature and isolated.

With Penny's influence, they've each grown a bit and changed.

So, I think that once Amy came on the scene and Sheldon found her to be fascinating on an intellectual level, he then began to be drawn to her emotionally as well.  All of that has been catalyst for change, but he is the most reluctant to change and hasn't really wanted to change or to grow up.  So he fights it in many ways--wanting to both have Amy as his girlfriend (so that she won't date anybody else) and still drag his feet at understanding or becoming what a boyfriend is supposed to be.

His approach has often struck me as being very junior high--where a boy is just discovering girls, finds a girl he likes and wants to be boyfriend/girlfriend, but doesn't really know what that means in terms of emotional committment or responsibility toward the other person.

These are the things he is beginning to learn.  And because he's an adult with an adolescent, even pre-adolescent mind-set at times, his trajectory is always going to be unusual and kind of 3 steps forward, 2 steps back as he learns how to negotiate not only Amy's expectations, but his own mixed feelings as well.

 

And I'm back to 'that makes sense and I completely agree' mode..

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Well said, Pomita!  I find the Sheldon character fascinating.  He can be so detached and robot-like with people, but at the same time he is at the mercy of his mother and his love for his Mee-Maw seems to know no bounds.  Occasionally we get glimpses of how much he cares about his friends ("please don't hurt my friend", offering Howard his spot on the couch as an apology, taking Penny to the ER when she was injured).  The relationship with Amy pushes that comfort zone even further, which is lots of fun to watch.  Bill Prady said in an interview that the writers are even surprised at how accepting Sheldon is of Amy's attempts to push the relationship forward...imagine that!

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Well said, Pomita!  I find the Sheldon character fascinating.  He can be so detached and robot-like with people, but at the same time he is at the mercy of his mother and his love for his Mee-Maw seems to know no bounds.  Occasionally we get glimpses of how much he cares about his friends ("please don't hurt my friend", offering Howard his spot on the couch as an apology, taking Penny to the ER when she was injured).  The relationship with Amy pushes that comfort zone even further, which is lots of fun to watch.  Bill Prady said in an interview that the writers are even surprised at how accepting Sheldon is of Amy's attempts to push the relationship forward...imagine that!

 

Actually I just quoted Phanta's post above, but thanks. :p

 

I agree. Sheldon has always been a complex and layered character, fluctuating between his claims of being a 'creature of pure intellect' to unconditionally loving his Mee maw, conceding an important game because of that love, helping out his friends surprisingly selflessly at times (even risking his life), breaking down emotionally because of a damaged robot or a token from a screen idol. He was always set in his ways and afraid of change. but the potential to surprise us with some fascinating turnarounds was there all along.. the writing of the character left them that leg-space.

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For the second time, The Big Bang Theory featured the game of Dungeons & Dragons, a game that is very near and dear to the hearts of nerds and geeks everywhere and what can be considered a cornerstone of geek culture and for the second time, the writers and producers gave us a missed opportunity to introduce a wider audience to what is a wonderful and entertaining past time. I can only conclude that the reason for this is that the writers and producers of the show have little idea what exactly the game of Dungeons & Dragons is nor what it entails, as the activity depicted on last week’s show bears little resemblance to it.

For those who may not know, Dungeons & Dragons is a role playing game, a game where the players assume the role of a character different from themselves in a fantasy world within the context of a rules system. It was certainly not shown in the episode that Leonard and the gang were playing characters as they would have been doing had they been playing D&D. The players never referred to each other by a character name. There were no references to important tropes of D&D such as character classes or races. At no point were Sheldon, Raj, Howard, and Stewart required to roll a die. There was a play mat and miniature figures on the table that were never used. On the contrary, Sheldon was clearly depicting himself rather than a character in the game as he was making references to his own personal history rather that his character. This is something that would never happen in a game of D&D. I can only then wonder then exactly what Leonard and his friends were doing as they clearly weren't playing Dungeons & Dragons.

 

The Big Bang Theory walks a fine line between poking harmless fun at the “other,” in this case geeks, in an attempt to laugh with them, and being malicious and bullying by laughing at the characters on the show. The only way to be successful at the former and not indulge in the latter is to poke fun at the other from an insider’s point of view. The clear ignorance of the game of Dungeons & Dragons on the part of the writers of this episode caused them to lose this insider’s point of view and made what could have been a clever send up of a popular geek past time into something clearly derisive and intended to make fun of the players by depicted them as engaging in a foolish activity and labeling them as idiots for choosing to play this foolish game rather than have sex with their hot girl friends as any “normal” person would choose.

 

The episode would have been stronger if the writers had done their research and attempted to understand role playing games and chosen to have fun with Leonard and his gang by pointing out what is funny about this unusual past time rather than using the game as a thinly veiled excuse to invent absurd slapstick situations to mock and deride geeks and nerds. For example, if the writers really portrayed Dungeons & Dragons, Sheldon could have proved most annoying to his friends by insisting that they all stay in character at all times, calling them by the names of their D&D characters rather than their real names, and admonishing them any time they spoke out of character or used references that would be anachronistic or inappropriate within the context of the game. This how an individual as anal as Sheldon would really approach a role playing game as he would understand what is required of the medium and would pursue it to the maximum degree.

 

I've heard that the producers of The Big Bang Theory engage advisers to be sure that the math and physics references on the show are accurate. I only wish they would do the same when it comes to the aspects of geek culture they so often, and sometimes inaccurately, portray. Perhaps they should have asked their frequent guest star Wil Wheaton about Dungeons & Dragons, he could have told them all about it. To date, the only T.V. show to ever portray a proper game of D&D as it is actually played is the show Freaks and Geeks in their final episode “Discos and Dragons.” It’s disappointing that The Big Bang Theory can’t portray such an important part of geek culture with the same dignity and accuracy.

 

I've never played D&D ... yet,!! but I don't like it when they get stuff wrong that I know about, so I get what you are saying. This show must be making staggering amounts of money these days, so you'd think they could afford proper research to get these things right. They used to pay more attention but I guess the others are right, the story comes first. There are a lot of other things we have to take at face value as well though. The fact the guys would be earning a lot of money and not need to share an apartment, with the professions they are in. And that Penny would not be able to afford to live alone on her wages. There's loads of dead ends where there are no repercussions after a story and some people get very urked about that. I have accepted the show is not a true representation even though some bits can bug me, it's just a bit of fun.

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For the second time, The Big Bang Theory featured the game of Dungeons & Dragons, a game that is very near and dear to the hearts of nerds and geeks everywhere and what can be considered a cornerstone of geek culture and for the second time, the writers and producers gave us a missed opportunity to introduce a wider audience to what is a wonderful and entertaining past time. I can only conclude that the reason for this is that the writers and producers of the show have little idea what exactly the game of Dungeons & Dragons is nor what it entails, as the activity depicted on last week’s show bears little resemblance to it.

For those who may not know, Dungeons & Dragons is a role playing game, a game where the players assume the role of a character different from themselves in a fantasy world within the context of a rules system. It was certainly not shown in the episode that Leonard and the gang were playing characters as they would have been doing had they been playing D&D. The players never referred to each other by a character name. There were no references to important tropes of D&D such as character classes or races. At no point were Sheldon, Raj, Howard, and Stewart required to roll a die. There was a play mat and miniature figures on the table that were never used. On the contrary, Sheldon was clearly depicting himself rather than a character in the game as he was making references to his own personal history rather that his character. This is something that would never happen in a game of D&D. I can only then wonder then exactly what Leonard and his friends were doing as they clearly weren't playing Dungeons & Dragons.

 

The Big Bang Theory walks a fine line between poking harmless fun at the “other,” in this case geeks, in an attempt to laugh with them, and being malicious and bullying by laughing at the characters on the show. The only way to be successful at the former and not indulge in the latter is to poke fun at the other from an insider’s point of view. The clear ignorance of the game of Dungeons & Dragons on the part of the writers of this episode caused them to lose this insider’s point of view and made what could have been a clever send up of a popular geek past time into something clearly derisive and intended to make fun of the players by depicted them as engaging in a foolish activity and labeling them as idiots for choosing to play this foolish game rather than have sex with their hot girl friends as any “normal” person would choose.

 

The episode would have been stronger if the writers had done their research and attempted to understand role playing games and chosen to have fun with Leonard and his gang by pointing out what is funny about this unusual past time rather than using the game as a thinly veiled excuse to invent absurd slapstick situations to mock and deride geeks and nerds. For example, if the writers really portrayed Dungeons & Dragons, Sheldon could have proved most annoying to his friends by insisting that they all stay in character at all times, calling them by the names of their D&D characters rather than their real names, and admonishing them any time they spoke out of character or used references that would be anachronistic or inappropriate within the context of the game. This how an individual as anal as Sheldon would really approach a role playing game as he would understand what is required of the medium and would pursue it to the maximum degree.

 

I've heard that the producers of The Big Bang Theory engage advisers to be sure that the math and physics references on the show are accurate. I only wish they would do the same when it comes to the aspects of geek culture they so often, and sometimes inaccurately, portray. Perhaps they should have asked their frequent guest star Wil Wheaton about Dungeons & Dragons, he could have told them all about it. To date, the only T.V. show to ever portray a proper game of D&D as it is actually played is the show Freaks and Geeks in their final episode “Discos and Dragons.” It’s disappointing that The Big Bang Theory can’t portray such an important part of geek culture with the same dignity and accuracy.

tptb have no respect for nerd/geek culture. :icon_rolleyes:

far higher numbers of people want to laugh at the nerds than with the nerds. :icon_cry:

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I've never played D&D ... yet,!! but I don't like it when they get stuff wrong that I know about, so I get what you are saying. This show must be making staggering amounts of money these days, so you'd think they could afford proper research to get these things right. They used to pay more attention but I guess the others are right, the story comes first. There are a lot of other things we have to take at face value as well though. The fact the guys would be earning a lot of money and not need to share an apartment, with the professions they are in. And that Penny would not be able to afford to live alone on her wages. There's loads of dead ends where there are no repercussions after a story and some people get very urked about that. I have accepted the show is not a true representation even though some bits can bug me, it's just a bit of fun.

Well, whether or not they got anything "wrong" in regard to D&D might depend on how strict one is about how to play. While it's true that we didn't see the guys roll any dice themselves, we also didn't see the whole game.

There are instances where the dungeon master roles to determine how your actions turn out--like when one blunders through a door, for example.

The players would roll if they were attacking an enemy, to see whether or not they hit and then for how many points they hit, etc., but again, we didn't see every moment of the game.

Yeah, they have a lot of tossed-off bits, but that's the nature of the format.

Edited by phantagrae

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Well, whether or not they got anything "wrong" in regard to D&D might depend on how strict one is about how to play. While it's true that we didn't see the guys roll any dice themselves, we also didn't see the whole game.

There are instances where the dungeon master roles to determine how your actions turn out--like when one blunders through a door, for example.

The players would roll if they were attacking an enemy, to see whether or not they hit and then for how many points they hit, etc., but again, we didn't see every moment of the game.

Yeah, they have a lot of tossed-off bits, but that's the nature of the format.

ok that may be true, but come on the lazy bastards didn't even try.

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they only have 20 minutes to fit stuff in, its not going to have every little detail included.  A lot is left up to the audience to imagine, the writers probably didn't expect the audience to be so critical of the way the characters played a game in the show

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ok that may be true, but come on the lazy bastards didn't even try.

 

They didn't bother with the details because the D&D game and it's finer points were not really the point of the story.

What we saw were the moments in the game that outlined the quest and showed the guys figuring out clues, not every moment and detail of how the game would be played--because that would take for frickin' ever.

They showed the parts that got them to the place where Sheldon could kick the game and the tone of the evening off its rails.  That was the point of the game and the episode.

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Okay I've just watched this episode again even though in the beginning i didn't think I liked it.  I'm enjoying watching sheldon open up about his pop pop more and more... the human side of sheldon coming out more than it ever has...

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Okay I've just watched this episode again even though in the beginning i didn't think I liked it.  I'm enjoying watching sheldon open up about his pop pop more and more... the human side of sheldon coming out more than it ever has...

 

The same thing happened to me on repeat watches. I feel this episode grew on me, initially I was just taken aback by Sheldon's unexpected outburst but later began to enjoy reading the nuances of it (with some help from people on internet forums). ;)

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I've rewatched it again too last night, and I've decided I do like the guys part of the episode and really hate the girls/Raj part of the episode.

 

I don't know much about D&D, so I'm not going to dwell on the accuracy of how they portrayed the game itself, but I thought it was clever to add the Xmas twist to the game, I loved the bell code and whilst I did think Sheldon's outburst is a bit sudden and out of the blue, it was interesting, well acted and I actually still like the Santa dream at the end. I really want to play D&D too now!

 

The girls/Raj part of the story: I'm sorry if some people are going to be sensitive and flame me, but I thought it was lame and left me with a bitter taste in my mouth. Raj comes across like a cartoon to start with with all his sexual innuendoes at the apartment and like a slightly misogynistic ass later on at the club. I really don't like Amy in this one (not to mention the continuity in her dialogue is all over the place) and the whole competition about who's loneliest actually did no make me feel bad, it just made me cringe. To top it all off the last two lines to conclude that conversation were just pathetically predictable, like they needed to wrap it up and couldn't be bothered to come up with something original: "there, there, you'll find someone too", "oh I hope she's amazing as you". Blah. 

 

They should have just cut out the girls altogether from this episode and have a whole ep about D&D.

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How about in the spirit of Christmas we just agree to disagree? :)

However, what I won't change my mind about is, no matter how Santa Claus came to be, it was extremely inappropriate, uncalled for and simply insensisitive in a family sitcom to have Revengeful Santa Clause blow up the apartment, Sheldon and (unless he was at Penny's :) ) Leonard. Whatever your view how and what Santa came to be / is one thing is for sure Santa Clause has always been the isence of goodness and giving. You want to see Santa Clause blow up and kill people go right ahead and make your day. But not on a family comedy. The movies have plenty of violent filled Santa Clause causing mayhem. The very big difference is the rating and the fact that they tell you ahead of time what you are in for so you can make your decision to watch or not. Drink all the TBBT koolaid you want but to me this is just another example of TPTB pushing the envelope when the time frame is still in the family watching time frame.

 

Dear, you should remember this was only a Sheldon´s typical dream. In Sheldon´s dreams this type of things always are happening. Always he is attacked for something: trolls, Goofy, etc. Nightmares are like this, out of reality. So we can say that they didn´t show a bad Santa but a bad dream.

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It's a shame that the writers simplified the D&D thing. I agree that it wasn't crucial for the D&D segment to be totally accurate given it's purpose within the storyline HOWEVER for a show that has so much praise given to it because of the accuracy of it's portrayal of pop culture, it was a tiny bit of a let down in this respect.

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I doubt if 5% of people in the United States consider the present day Santa Claus any type of religious character regardless of how the character first appeared.  Frankly I have never seen a Santa Clause display any type of religious affiliation at all.  This is a comedy show and the appearance of Santa was in Sheldon's dream when he obviously was feeling some guilt for his earlier actions towards Santa in the game.  Lighten up.  It's a comedy show, not a religious one and not one promoting some Christmas message.  By the way, in some places in Europe Santa doesn't give coal to bad little boys and girls, he beats them.  That could get you arrested here. 

Edited by rickfromillinois

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Dear, you should remember this was only a Sheldon´s typical dream. In Sheldon´s dreams this type of things always are happening. Always he is attacked for something: trolls, Goofy, etc. Nightmares are like this, out of reality. So we can say that they didn´t show a bad Santa but a bad dream.
Thanks for your insight I can accept that.

Although not scientific in the least, I noticed on You Tube that CBS put two particular clips up. The sexy nerdy ladies and revengeful Santa. There has been close to 4-1/2 times as many hits on the girls fashion show at the beginning of the show then people wanting to see Santa blow up Sheldon and the apartment. It warms my heart that there is hope for this world yet. That more people would like to see 3 beautiful women try to make a point to their men rhetorically then want see someone make their point violently. Happy Holidays Everyone! :)

Edited by SodidIwin?
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Thanks for your insight I can accept that.

 It warms my heart that there is hope for this world yet. That more people would like to see 3 beautiful women try to make a point to their men rhetorically then want see someone make their point violently. Happy Holidays Everyone! :)

 

I'm not sure making a point is the reason for watching that particular clip.  Here, let me fix it so you understand where I would be coming from:

 

That more people I would like to see 3 beautiful women   :icon_eek:  try to make a point to their men rhetorically then want see someone make their point violently.

 

There, how's that?   :icon_lol:

 

Happy Holidays to you.   :icon_mrgreen:

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I've rewatched it again too last night, and I've decided I do like the guys part of the episode and really hate the girls/Raj part of the episode.

 

I don't know much about D&D, so I'm not going to dwell on the accuracy of how they portrayed the game itself, but I thought it was clever to add the Xmas twist to the game, I loved the bell code and whilst I did think Sheldon's outburst is a bit sudden and out of the blue, it was interesting, well acted and I actually still like the Santa dream at the end. I really want to play D&D too now!

 

The girls/Raj part of the story: I'm sorry if some people are going to be sensitive and flame me, but I thought it was lame and left me with a bitter taste in my mouth. Raj comes across like a cartoon to start with with all his sexual innuendoes at the apartment and like a slightly misogynistic ass later on at the club. I really don't like Amy in this one (not to mention the continuity in her dialogue is all over the place) and the whole competition about who's loneliest actually did no make me feel bad, it just made me cringe. To top it all off the last two lines to conclude that conversation were just pathetically predictable, like they needed to wrap it up and couldn't be bothered to come up with something original: "there, there, you'll find someone too", "oh I hope she's amazing as you". Blah. 

 

They should have just cut out the girls altogether from this episode and have a whole ep about D&D.

ITA that the Raj side of this episode just completely drags the rest down. The Raj story went nowhere and although they have about three different Rajs on the show, this episode highlighted that they have no idea what to do with any of them. Poor Kunal is getting sidelined and when he does get a central role nothing remotely interesting happens. I'm not surprised Raj keeps bringing up his night with Penny this season—it's the only thing worth remembering that has happened to him since S1.

After this episode, Kunal retweeted few fans opinions that don't reflect well on what the writers are doing to his character. I don't think that's very wise but he is clearly frustrated with Raj as well.

They used the Amy side of this story just to cram as many Amy-is-ugly jokes in as possible. It was lazy. Raj on a girls night show have been epic, I've wanted to see him hang with them for a long time. This was just a wasted opportunity.

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What happened to Lorre & Prady's promise at this year's Comic-con to put Raj in a relationship?  We're halfway through the season and nothing of the sort is in sight.  Actually, I would rather see them do something different with him.  Maybe he could have a major career development instead. 

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