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The Entire Premise Is Changing, Not Sure How To Feel.

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So much love for all of this! I keep saying that Sheldon and Amy should start working on a project together. I swear to God if this show gives me neural networks I'm going to die and go to Heaven.

 

Does that mean hooking your brain into something? Sheldon would be all over that! remember the virtual presence device? There has to be a starting point for an episode in there somewhere.

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Does that mean hooking your brain into something? Sheldon would be all over that! remember the virtual presence device? There has to be a starting point for an episode in there somewhere.

 

No, it's running computer/mathematical models of neural activity. With a neurobiologist and a theoretical physicist, that would be the merging of two brilliant minds into one project. They could make it a season-long arc or something, and with theoretical neuroscience being such a hot topic (i.e. can we replicate a whole brain computationally?) they could really lead them both to a Nobel Prize or something (I mean, yes, a Nobel Prize would probably come 10-20 years down the line, but we can suspend our disbelief for the show, lol). 

Edited by spook

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What bothers me is who in this whole frakakta thing could determine which trait is OOC and which isn't? Is it the fans, especially those who browse the forums and express even their very minute opinions on a simple matter, or the writers who are composed of the main ten (as I've read from the EW special, including Lorre, Prady, Molaro, Holland, Kaplan, Reynolds, Ferrari, ect.) and a stream of staff writers? I can see how both sides could pretty have the edge on deciding which is which. The fans have been watching since episode 1 and they take note of every detail, even the fucking background noise. They take into account every fucking moment and scene and stores them inside this memory box. Meanwhile, the writers are the ones who create every passing episode and thus set "the rules". For the fans, they notice "inconsistencies" that makes them decide that those things were the "inconsistencies" on the show. For the writers, who knows? Maybe they added this toast on the table because they plan on using this in the future. Or maybe they signed this character for a hidden bank account even though he's broke to the last cent.

 

In other news, I agree. I want my brain monkey Amy Farrah Fowler back. Even though I know she would probably mention her "nothing-to-lose" monkeys sometime in the future or maybe even play with brains again, I want her to work with Bernadette and sort of create a zombie primate army.

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Most television shows start slipping afterfive years.  It is usually after a major even or change of premise occurs.  The Andy Griffith show is a good example.  Originally Griffith only wanted to do five years which is why Don Knotts left.  But then, the producers talked Griffith into continuing the show.  Knotts, of course, was already signed to do movies and could not do it.  The show continued and there were a few good episodes afterwards, but I think most people will agree that the Andy Griffith show was not as good after Barney left.  Happy Days is another great example, the first five years had great writing, but after their jump the shark moment, it went down hill though the series continued for another 5 years.  

 

I think TBBT perhaps has reached the 5 peak. I know the ratings are at their highest right now, but the peak may have been reached  At first, I felt that they were moving the romances too fast, but compared to the other series I mentioned, a few years is really quite a long time.  I did not like Howard getting in a relationship and getting married.  That killed a part of the character and affected his and Raj's relationship.  The off and on relationship with Penny and Leonard I think works--we all knew earlier on that they would drag it out, so I feel it is a good thing.   I don't mind Amy and Sheldon's relationship.  It doesn't seem to be advancing very fast which is good.  Sheldon is pretty much the same guy he was from the start.  There is a little growth but all characters have to have growth.  Perhaps having a couple more years of the guys and Penny without Amy and  Bernadette might have been better.  But then they may have run out of ideas.  It is hard to imagine how the show will advance with the current storyline.  At some point you would expect some major changes.  Most shows end up losing cast members.  No doubt tbbt will too.  Hopefully it won't be Sheldon or Leonard.  But even any of the other cast members will be missed.  Hopefully, with all the attention given to the show right now, the writers will try to keep the writing good and fresh.  This is easier said than done, but it may give them an incentive.   We'll just have to wait and see.   

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I mostly agree.  Once everyone realized the potential of this show being this popular they went after the bigger audience.  This involved dumbing down the show and making it more romantic comedy oriented.  That is the kind of thing that sells.  We have more of these moments when characters we have grown to like are painted in very pathetic situations (Howard in space) for cheap laughs.  As long as the big audience is amused we have to either go along for the ride or at some point get off the bus.

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I think the premise of the show was the evolution of Leonard, Penny, Sheldon and their friends.  Look at Penny, in High School she wouldn't have even talked to the people who are now her best friends.

Edited by eirwinrommel
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I mostly agree.  Once everyone realized the potential of this show being this popular they went after the bigger audience.  This involved dumbing down the show and making it more romantic comedy oriented.  That is the kind of thing that sells.  We have more of these moments when characters we have grown to like are painted in very pathetic situations (Howard in space) for cheap laughs.  As long as the big audience is amused we have to either go along for the ride or at some point get off the bus.

I dunno, the show was already somewhat dumb to begin with, in terms of the situations the guys got themselves into. And Howard was always pathetic. Simon Helberg described him as something like an overconfident fool--he's really confident in all of his pathetic attempts to come on to women. He thinks he's a ladies man, but all of his schemes ultimately fail.

None of the guys has ever been cool--that's kind of the point.

And actually, I think that apart from certain moments, Howard has gotten less pathetic now that he's not trying to come up with ways to meet women.

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You can never have the past for too long.  The comfort does have to pass.  Everyone/show/thing has to evolve at some point.  I think they might have gone too fast in some places and then lacked in others but overall the show is still the same.  Just a bigger cast, more plot options and storyline angles, which allows longevity and I believe freshness.  They have so many options with the couples and pairings because there is such a strong bond and chemistry with everyone.  I dont believe they need to eliminate or add anyone else.  

Edited by Shel_Ra_Ho_Le
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Let me say that right from the start, TBBT is still my favorite show and I won't stop watching anytime soon. However, I'm getting a bit more disenchanted with each passing episode. The shows premise has gone from scientific, intelligent, fish out of water humor, ~almost~ to just a run of the mill romantic comedy. It's changed so much that it hardly resembles it's original self at all. 

 

I did not like the last episode at all. The opening was weak, and then Sheldon actually volunteers to take care of Amy when she's sick. SICK. A confirmed germaphobe does not roll over that easily, no matter how much you care about someone, a phobia is a phobia, and it takes years of therapy to deal with it.  I could see him doing it while wearing a  haz-mat suit, lol, or mask at the very least, but for Sheldon to just turn around and walk right back in like that, without doing the least little thing to prepare himself at all, was just a little too much. 

 

Sheldon is becoming a little too normal to have had the issues he started out with, Leonard has gone from being adorably shy to spineless and effeminate, everything funny about Howard is gone, just... gone, and the two people who actually needed to change have remained exactly the same, Penny has done nothing as far as her acting "career" and it's getting to be a bit a of stretch at this point, and Raj is almost invisible now. 

 

Yes I realize these are a lot of complaints about a show I claim to still hold as my favorite, I just don't totally give up that easily on something I've enjoyed so much for so many years. I still have hope that they'll revive it and remember what it was that made the show so awesome to begin with. 

I certainly agree with some of what you have said, especially about Howard, he's been diluted and I watched some old repeats, the Goth Club, and I so wish for that Howard again.  I think the evolution of Sheldon was inevitable, but his quirks come and go which is a little strange. Another thing I have noticed watching repeats is that they seemed to do more  Leonard and Sheldon scenes in the earlier episodes and would love a return to that, I love their bromance, bring it back. Penny's character is a little uneven and she needs to start growing up a little. Poor Raj, give the guy a storyline, and it doesn't have to include a relationship, I've always thought they could spend a year getting him to experiment with different drugs and options to help solve his selective mutism, could be fun and Kunal is such a good actor would give him something to do other than just standing there looking pretty. Although I've enjoyed season 6 for the most part I too agree that they are selling themselves short and other then just being a funny show, it could be an amazing show, one that will be remembered as such for years to come, a ground breaking show like I Love Lucy, The Honeymooners and All in the Family were, TV shows that moved the medium along just a little.

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I don't know, as someone who did watch the show whenever I got the chance but didn't really get hooked until recently I kind of feel a bit insulted when it's pretty much implied that the new audience only likes it because it's being "dumbed down". It's not like it was a deeply intellectual documentary on scientists before S4. I thought there were some pretty dumb episodes in the first 3 seasons as much as there are in the last 3 seasons. Actually, at the very beginning, I was one of those people who had a chip on their shoulder about the show, being a scientist, and used to think it was just a silly show that exaggerated all the stereotypes of the profession and only changed my mind later on. 

 

I do not find Howard-the-sleazeball that funny at all, he's pretty pathetic in my book. I would like them to go back to showing him doing more scheming/stealing of equipment and stuff like that (the 43 Peculiarity was great), that's what's hilarious about Howard. But thank God for Bernadette, I really did not see the appeal of pre-Bernadette Howard, he was so predictable. Raj is terrible right now, but I think they just don't know what to do with him because they built the entire premise of his character around the fact that he can't speak to women. And that is funny for a little while, but 6 years down the line it's just lame. But if you take that away, then he's hard to put into funny situations because he would just be a normal guy, other than his metrosexuality. He's not like Sheldon who has 2984 other quirks to play with. They kind of backed themselves into a corner with that one. But from the sounds of the next couple of eps at least they give him some more storylines with Howard that seem funny.

 

In any case, I do think this will be remembered as a classic show. I do think it has changed the perspective on nerd/science culture to a certain extent, regardless of what happens from here onwards. I'd really like to know how many more kids are getting into the sciences now because of this show. 

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I agree that Raj needs something to do.  He's into cooking, home-making, and fashion, surely they could explore these interests a little?

 

Am I remembering correctly that the placebo effect worked on his selective mutism (the fake beer on the train ride, talking to Summer Glau?)  That would be a place to start.

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I dunno, the show was already somewhat dumb to begin with, in terms of the situations the guys got themselves into. And Howard was always pathetic. Simon Helberg described him as something like an overconfident fool--he's really confident in all of his pathetic attempts to come on to women. He thinks he's a ladies man, but all of his schemes ultimately fail.

None of the guys has ever been cool--that's kind of the point.

And actually, I think that apart from certain moments, Howard has gotten less pathetic now that he's not trying to come up with ways to meet women.

 

The smart jokes and references have dwindled while the cartoonish behavior and romantic comedy has increased.  Howard's character has been dumbed down to almost nothing at this point.  What was his big contribution to Bakersfield?  Being in a borg costume and calling his mother for a ride.  Both were cheap laughs.

 

The show is mainstream now.  Nearly 20 million people are watching it.  A number that large includes people from all walks of life.  This means that some of the same people that are entertained by horrible auditions on AI are entertained by TBBT.  We can't give those people too many head scratching moments because confusion is not entertainment.

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I don't know, as someone who did watch the show whenever I got the chance but didn't really get hooked until recently I kind of feel a bit insulted when it's pretty much implied that the new audience only likes it because it's being "dumbed down".

 

You should not be so easily offended. As I said in my last post 20 million viewers represents people from all walks of life. 

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You should not be so easily offended. As I said in my last post 20 million viewers represents people from all walks of life. 

 

Yes, but you keep insisting that the show has been "dumbed down" to accommodate all those people, which would have to include some of us, apparently, since some of us are newer to the show or we still love the show and don't find fault with it now that it's no longer the "old" version of the show.

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl
The smart jokes and references have dwindled while the cartoonish behavior and romantic comedy has increased.  Howard's character has been dumbed down to almost nothing at this point.  What was his big contribution to Bakersfield?  Being in a borg costume and calling his mother for a ride.  Both were cheap laughs.

 

The show is mainstream now.  Nearly 20 million people are watching it.  A number that large includes people from all walks of life.  This means that some of the same people that are entertained by horrible auditions on AI are entertained by TBBT.  We can't give those people too many head scratching moments because confusion is not entertainment.

 

Can you point to me "head scratching moments" from the first seasons then? Because I really can't think of one.

 

I also don't see how that behaviour of Howard could be taken as being "dumbed down". If anything he was a much dumber character when he would try to score girls with those ridiculous techniques of him. If anything, he knows better by now.

 

I really for the life of me cannot see what is the freakin' huge difference people keeps talking about between the first 3 seasons and now. Sure, yeah there are more romantic storylines, but that doesn't make it dumb. If anything, the romantic storylines were always there, except that the guys (minus Raj) now have steady girls instead of having episode after episode of Leonard pining over Penny, and Raj & Howard failing miserably at getting chicks. How is that supposed to be "smarter" comedy, it's beyond me.

 

I also find ironic that on this thread, Spook, Pomita and myself, the ones who come from science background are the ones loving the show now as much as we loved it before.

Edited by Sursonica
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I like Howard's so called changes as he's more real now.  He is a big deal now so his ego is starting to show a bit.  He's married and more experienced so yes he's gonna change a lil.  I like it and I hope we see more development.  Sheldon's evolving and developing.  Leonard is sorta growing.  Penny hasn't really changed that much, for the better.  Raj is lacking on character development.  I love Amy so don't even go there!  And Bernie is one female Chucky bitch at times.  I LOVE IT!  Not so innocent as she may have seemed.  :p

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The smart jokes and references have dwindled while the cartoonish behavior and romantic comedy has increased.  Howard's character has been dumbed down to almost nothing at this point.  What was his big contribution to Bakersfield?  Being in a borg costume and calling his mother for a ride.  Both were cheap laughs.

 

The show is mainstream now.  Nearly 20 million people are watching it.  A number that large includes people from all walks of life.  This means that some of the same people that are entertained by horrible auditions on AI are entertained by TBBT.  We can't give those people too many head scratching moments because confusion is not entertainment.

 

Sophistry.

 

If the TBBT audience were all that entertained by AI, they'd be watching AI and not TBBT.

No TV show audience is going to be made up of only hardcore scientists or even smart nerds.  They're probably watching PBS documentaries or playing video games or watching their Battlestar Galactica DVDs.

 

I think that this business about the show and the characters being somehow "smarter" before the ratings started going up is a myth.  Yes, there were more whiteboards, but that doesn't mean it was a "smarter" show.

Edited by phantagrae
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Yes, but you keep insisting that the show has been "dumbed down" to accommodate all those people, which would have to include some of us, apparently, since some of us are newer to the show or we still love the show and don't find fault with it now that it's no longer the "old" version of the show.

 

So it is offensive to like what ordinary people like just because they are ordinary?  Just because I don't understand how people can watch race cars go around in circles for hours doesn't mean it is not valid entertainment.  I watch football and post on message board sites with a lot of people that can be shockingly dumb at times.  Should I be offended?

 

Can you point to me "head scratching moments" from the first seasons then? Because I really can't think of one.

 

I also don't see how that behaviour of Howard could be taken as being "dumbed down". If anything he was a much dumber character when he would try to score girls with those ridiculous techniques of him. If anything, he knows better by now.

 

 

Really?  You don't remember how there used to be much more science than there is now?   I remember an interview where one of the cast members even said there was much less material to memorize now.

 

Howard is less complex than he was.  Other than his manner of dress he is a typical sitcom husband now for the most part.  He is dumbed down in the sense that he no longer requires much inspiration to write.

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The smart jokes and references have dwindled while the cartoonish behavior and romantic comedy has increased.  Howard's character has been dumbed down to almost nothing at this point.  What was his big contribution to Bakersfield?  Being in a borg costume and calling his mother for a ride.  Both were cheap laughs.

 

The show is mainstream now.  Nearly 20 million people are watching it.  A number that large includes people from all walks of life.  This means that some of the same people that are entertained by horrible auditions on AI are entertained by TBBT.  We can't give those people too many head scratching moments because confusion is not entertainment.

The one thing you should remember is that a bigger audience = bigger bucks and to quote 'The Right Stuff' "No bucks, no Buck Rogers".

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I also find ironic that on this thread, Spook, Pomita and myself, the ones who come from science background are the ones loving the show now as much as we loved it before.
You can include me as a fourth there Sursonica. Both as having a science background and loving it now as much as before.
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So it is offensive to like what ordinary people like just because they are ordinary?  Just because I don't understand how people can watch race cars go around in circles for hours doesn't mean it is not valid entertainment.  I watch football and post on message board sites with a lot of people that can be shockingly dumb at times.  Should I be offended?

 

 

 

Really?  You don't remember how there used to be much more science than there is now?   I remember an interview where one of the cast members even said there was much less material to memorize now.

 

Howard is less complex than he was.  Other than his manner of dress he is a typical sitcom husband now for the most part.  He is dumbed down in the sense that he no longer requires much inspiration to write.

 

What you've been saying repeatedly is that the show has been dumbed down in order to appeal to the wider "ordinary" audience, which implies that that ordinary audience is too dumb to understand whatever it is you thought they were writing before.  Which, in turn, means that the wider audience watching the show now is dumber than the audience that was watching before, implying that those of us who enjoy it must somehow be part of that dumber audience.

 

I'm saying that just because more people have found the show and are enjoying it doesn't mean the show is somehow dumbed down or that the wider audience must be dumber otherwise TPTB wouldn't have "changed" the show--as you see it--in order to reel them in.  What I'm saying is that more and more people are catching on to how good the show is--through finding it in syndication and then coming to the first run episodes.  You don't know whether or not the people watching the show now in greater numbers are any smarter or dumber than the first few people who watched in the early seasons.

 

Unless you take some kind of poll and ask those 20 million people about their education level or their IQ numbers or something, you're just making the assumption that because the audience is bigger that the show has to have dumbed down in order to appeal to them, or that whatever it is that you don't like is dumb and therefore it is the thing that appeals to the wider audience.

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Sursonica, Spook, Phanta and Krys have already expressed so well everything I'd have liked to say. Pleasure to read your posts. I just want to give a hi-five to Spook, Tensor and Sursonica for being fellow scientists still loving TBBT (more than ever), and to Krys and Phanta for being awesome. Yay for the 'dumbed-down' show! :)

 

Also, regarding this whole 'relationship storylines are easier to write and liked by less intelligent people' theory.. I would like to point out that till date, most of the greatest creations of the world (film, literature, poetry or music) have been about relationships. Yes, some silly movies and TV dramas have also been about them - that's because they're universal. And I'm not saying that TBBT is great literature. But don't discount stories as easy or lazy or dumb just because they have relationships in them.. it all depends on how and what is being written.

 

IMO the Sheldon/Amy relationship is pretty hard to write. And they've faltered in it only rarely.

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Howard is less complex than he was.  Other than his manner of dress he is a typical sitcom husband now for the most part.  He is dumbed down in the sense that he no longer requires much inspiration to write.

 

Seriously? I'm not even a fan of the character all that much, but sometimes I have to wonder whether people are even watching the same show.

 

I thought it's pretty obvious that Howard's character is MUCH more complex and central to the show now. In the earlier seasons, he was pretty much on the sidelines and his only individual speciality was creepily and unsuccessfully hitting on girls and being a mama's boy. In the last 2 seasons and this one, he has got any number of deep psychological moments, a relationship and marriage, a space trip (and conflict related to that), very slowly working his way out of being a mama's boy while still hanging on to the bond between them, negotiating his friendship with Raj, ego issues after his professional achievement.. the older creepy perv Howard couldn't even have dreamed of all the things going on in his life today. Not to mention Simon is getting more more screen time and more material to work with than ever before.

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Seriously? I'm not even a fan of the character all that much, but sometimes I have to wonder whether people are even watching the same show.

 

I thought it's pretty obvious that Howard's character is MUCH more complex and central to the show now. In the earlier seasons, he was pretty much on the sidelines and his only individual speciality was creepily and unsuccessfully hitting on girls and being a mama's boy. In the last 2 seasons and this one, he has got any number of deep psychological moments, a relationship and marriage, a space trip (and conflict related to that), very slowly working his way out of being a mama's boy while still hanging on to the bond between them, negotiating his friendship with Raj, ego issues after his professional achievement.. the older creepy perv Howard couldn't even have dreamed of all the things going on in his life today. Not to mention Simon is getting more more screen time and more material to work with than ever before.

 

I agree.

And I also loved the episode where he bonded with his father-in-law--a very important thing for Howard who had essentially no real relationship with his own father.  That little conversation on the tailgate was fantastic and almost had me in tears when Bernie's dad told Howard to call him by his first name.  It was a really amazing moment for "just a sitcom".  I mean, the show is a comedy and they do have silly throw-away moments, because the show is supposed to be funny, but we still get nice little "real" moments like this.

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