Least Favorite Moments

[koops]

I really did not like when they played the helium prank on Sheldon. Not the prank itself, that was Kripke and it's fine, but the fact that HIS FRIENDS were laughing along with it in the cafeteria where the whole freaking department was making fun of him. I did not find that funny at all, I felt so bad for him. It's one thing if they're the ones playing a private prank on him and having fun amongst themselves, but when it's someone else doing that in front of everyone/strangers... I don't know, as weird as my friend might be, I would have stood up for him.

 

Kind of like when they put the video of him drunk on Youtube. Although that one doesn't annoy me as much for some reason.

Edited December 13, 2012 by spook

[Razberrypie]

Personally,the Raj/Penny thing didn't bother me much. I didn't find it that funny but it saddens me that it has ruined some people's view of the WHOLE show. That's why I don't think they should've done it, because it had a bigger impact than the writers intended. It wasn't supposed to mean anything and any jokes made about it now are just lighthearted. It hasn't ruined Raj for me or the L/P relationship but for other people it has

[4ofN]

Personally,the Raj/Penny thing didn't bother me much. I didn't find it that funny but it saddens me that it has ruined some people's view of the WHOLE show. That's why I don't think they should've done it, because it had a bigger impact than the writers intended. It wasn't supposed to mean anything and any jokes made about it now are just lighthearted. It hasn't ruined Raj for me or the L/P relationship but for other people it has

 

And the odd thing was that they knew it was a big deal for the fans. At the comic-con between seasons 4 and 5 Prady even talked about the upset fans and that the writers would need to come up with a solution that everyone would like.

 

Then they do the whole non-resolution thing and fixed the issue permanently into the shows backstory.

[bostrich]

I'm wondering how the real life guy his character was based on for over his issue. Bill Prady said that the guy he knew eventually got married and, IIRC, had kids, too. So something worked for that guy...

I knew Bill used to work with someone who couldn't speak to women, but I didn't know that the guy got married etc, so that's nice to hear.

I wonder whether the writers may have Raj visit India over a summer hiatus one year and return with a wife that also wished to be married and their families helped to arrange it. It skips the whole problem of Raj having to get over his mutism to find someone and the comedy remains... he now can't talk to his wife. I can see some shy scientist girl with a similar problem they bond over it and fall in love. Awww.... Is that still too corny Ar Diem?

Since this is a Chuck Lorre show, I'll also add the option for Raj to get drunk in Vegas and marry a showgirl... who is also studying for her PhD.

Edited December 13, 2012 by bostrich

[4ofN]

Since this is a Chuck Lorre show, I'll also add the option for Raj to get drunk in Vegas and marry a showgirl... who is also studying for her PhD.

 

Since this is a Chuck Lorrie show, I'll also add the option for Raj to get drunk and have a threesome with Howard and Bernadette.

[Ar Diem]

Personally,the Raj/Penny thing didn't bother me much. I didn't find it that funny but it saddens me that it has ruined some people's view of the WHOLE show. That's why I don't think they should've done it, because it had a bigger impact than the writers intended. It wasn't supposed to mean anything and any jokes made about it now are just lighthearted. It hasn't ruined Raj for me or the L/P relationship but for other people it has

 

I think the problem that most people have with it, is that at this point you look at their relationship as more of a family dynamic.  In fact, I don't know why they didn't use that as a means to allow Raj to talk to Penny, Bernadetter, and Amy and cut down on the need to have alcohol involved among the main characters.

 

More importantly, Raj is supposed to be a good guy.  Good guys don't take advantage of a girl at one of her lowest and most vulnerable moments.  Raj is her friend.  He is supposed to look out for her when she is down.  He is supposed to be the guy that protects her from a creep that would sleep with her when her guard is down.  Instead, they made him the creep.

 

Penny was supposed to know better too.  She is supposed to be the one that knows common sense.  Despite her numerous sexual partners she is not supposed to be that big of a slut.

 

It also goes back to something I said in my original post.  It is not good TV when they go full pathetic.  The format of the show gives the characters an underdog quality that makes most people root for them to overcome and succeed. 

[Ar Diem]

I knew Bill used to work with someone who couldn't speak to women, but I didn't know that the guy got married etc, so that's nice to hear.

I wonder whether the writers may have Raj visit India over a summer hiatus one year and return with a wife that also wished to be married and their families helped to arrange it. It skips the whole problem of Raj having to get over his mutism to find someone and the comedy remains... he now can't talk to his wife. I can see some shy scientist girl with a similar problem they bond over it and fall in love. Awww.... Is that still too corny Ar Diem?

Since this is a Chuck Lorre show, I'll also add the option for Raj to get drunk in Vegas and marry a showgirl... who is also studying for her PhD.

 

 

Personally I think the mutism comedy is dried up and adding another selectively mute character just compounds the problem that it is not funny anymore.  Since he can talk to his sister and mother it would stand to reason he could talk to his wife but if he couldn't then you face the issue of a married couple not being able to communicate alone without booze involved.  That would never work.

 

Also, I don't know if it is the way it is written or if it is acting but there is no chemistry between Howard and Bernadette.  They act like friends with benefits not newlyweds.  I'd rather them get divorced and reset back to Raj and Howard than marry Raj off too and risk having another clunky marriage to watch.  That would probably push the expiration date back on this show at least a full season where Raj getting married will definitely hasten its demise.  The closer they get to normal and happy the closer the show stops being funny.

[phantagrae]

The thing about Raj's mutism is that he doesn't have to actually be drunk.  He just has to think he has consumed alcohol.  It doesn't even have to really hit his system.

Now that he knows he can talk to women when he's had alcohol, he can pretty much overcome it if he has just a sip, or a bite of rum cake (I mean, who gets drunk on rum cake?!)

 

So, I think they need to work on that angle, and/or some kind of experimental drugs from Bernie's lab and/or some brain study that Amy knows about or is participating in.

They could kill 2 or 3 birds with one stone if they went that direction--work on Raj getting over his mutism and also having Bernie and/or Amy working their particular science field into the story.

 

I do think that Howard and Bernadette are really cute together.  I don't know what people expect in terms of "chemistry".  To me they've always worked as a couple, but they're not really written to be some kind of smoldering sex-pots.  I think they're really sweet together and I think that's pretty much what the writers are going for.

[Nogravitasatall]

I wasn't sure how this thread would be received but apparently I am not the only one who has a problem with parts of the show.   It also seems I am not the only one who has a problem with the direction they have taken Penny's character.  It is almost like the writers think we are so dumb that because she is pretty they can do whatever they want to her and we will still buy that she is a 'catch' for Leonard.  Right now, Penny is not the kind of girl you introduce to your parents.

Jeez she has only ever given into human weakness. It's not like she killed a man. The heart wants what the heart wants. It's not about her being a catch. It's about them having a connection that, to a disinterested observer, defies logic. Love makes people stupid. It's part of the human condition. Which is what this show reflects, humorously. And while its nice that your parents might approve, sometimes it is not an essential criterion. Parents are as stupid as anybody else. I'm one, so I know.

[C-Trayne]

One line i absolutely hated was in season 5 episode 7

 

Leonard: "Priya and I are in love"

 

He says this while trying to find a way to cheat on her and make it okay... I don't know i just feel like this line made it seem like Leonard gave away his love to easily and the fact that he siad it to penny just kinda irked me >:l

[Nogravitasatall]

I am not fond of the over reliance on drinking as a bit of background business. There is no evidence that there is a safe level of drinking. I was pleased to see Penny and Bernadette having coffee in TPSE. On the other hand, 36 hours of meaningless (safe) sex won't actually harm you physically, except maybe for the chafing... the emotional chafing.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Nogravitasatall

[phantagrae]

One line i absolutely hated was in season 5 episode 7

 

Leonard: "Priya and I are in love"

 

He says this while trying to find a way to cheat on her and make it okay... I don't know i just feel like this line made it seem like Leonard gave away his love to easily and the fact that he siad it to penny just kinda irked me >:l

 

 

I think Leonard wanted to be in love, and he certainly wanted Priya to be in love with him, but in reality, neither of them was truly in love with the other.  I think it was demonstrated again and again in that she didn't want to tell her parents that they were dating and she left very abruptly with little or no warning to him, and then while they were apart, she slept with her previous boyfriend.  And the fact that he was even considering this other girl was kind of a sign.

 

It's like Sheldon's mother said--you have to decide if you're really in a relationship or if you're just calling it one.  I think that Leonard and Priya wanted to believe they cared about each more than just physically, but in the end the love just wasn't really there.

[Ar Diem]

Jeez she has only ever given into human weakness. It's not like she killed a man. The heart wants what the heart wants. It's not about her being a catch. It's about them having a connection that, to a disinterested observer, defies logic. Love makes people stupid. It's part of the human condition. Which is what this show reflects, humorously. And while its nice that your parents might approve, sometimes it is not an essential criterion. Parents are as stupid as anybody else. I'm one, so I know.

 

 

But the show was originally about Leonard getting a beautiful girl now it seems to be about how Leonard can put up with her.  She has commitment issues, she is a lush which is additionally problemematic since she will sleep with literally anyone if she gets drunk enough, she had only one goal in life which she has failed at and has no direction for another, and she is often bitter and depressed. 

 

A few weeks ago the writers had her contemplating breaking up with Leonard again and now she drops the L bomb.  Keep that up and we may have to add crazy to the list of her unpleasant qualities. 

 

These are all things that have happened to her character as time has passed.  She might have been a girl you take home in season one when her only problems were that they had nothing in common and had no chance at stimulating him intelligently in conversations.

 

It is like the show wants to get rid of her character or end their relationship for good so they are going out of their way to make us like her less. They are even muting her looks now with less flattering wardrobe, less make-up, and frizzy hair.  They are certainly not doing it to her because it is funny.

[phantagrae]

But the show was originally about Leonard getting a beautiful girl now it seems to be about how Leonard can put up with her.  She has commitment issues, she is a lush which is additionally problemematic since she will sleep with literally anyone if she gets drunk enough, she had only one goal in life which she has failed at and has no direction for another, and she is often bitter and depressed. 

 

A few weeks ago the writers had her contemplating breaking up with Leonard again and now she drops the L bomb.  Keep that up and we may have to add crazy to the list of her unpleasant qualities. 

 

These are all things that have happened to her character as time has passed.  She might have been a girl you take home in season one when her only problems were that they had nothing in common and had no chance at stimulating him intelligently in conversations.

 

It is like the show wants to get rid of her character or end their relationship for good so they are going out of their way to make us like her less. They are even muting her looks now with less flattering wardrobe, less make-up, and frizzy hair.  They are certainly not doing it to her because it is funny.

 

 

I think this is an exaggeration of what has happened in only a few instances--like getting drunk and sleeping with just anyone.

 

I think that she's always supposed to have been more worldly and experienced than the guys and that includes having dated (and possibly, but not necessarily, slept with) several different guys.  That doesn't mean that she goes out and gets drunk and sleeps with strangers.

We've really only seen a handful of guys that she has dated.  Sheldon has referenced "lots of" men coming and going, but unless he was actually counting them, we don't really know how many there really were.

 

Though they have used the drinking as a bit of a comedy schtick, they don't usually show her wobbling around drunk.  It's more of a sight gag than anything.  And I think the only times we've seen her get drunk and sleep with anyone has been with Leonard and then the one time with Raj.

 

And though the show hasn't referenced her acting very much, that doesn't mean that she's not still taking auditions, etc.

It's just like taking showers--we almost never see anyone actually taking a shower, but it is assumed that they all do it on some sort of regular basis.  We don't always see them going to the bathroom, but that doesn't mean that the only time they poop is when they talk about it.  So, just because Penny isn't shown taking auditions or doesn't talk about it every day doesn't mean she isn't still looking for acting jobs, or taking auditions here and there.

 

If element of the show is not relevant to the storyline at hand, it's not likely to be referenced in the moment.  That includes Penny's acting career, any of the work that any of the others do.  We don't always see them working equations, but that doesn't mean that we are to assume that they're not working.

 

It's like Star Trek--we only ever saw the "the ship's going to blow up!!" episodes, not the ones where they were just flying around in space from planet to planet with only mundane routines to perform.

 

I think that each of the main character gets or will get their moments in the spotlight, but there are a lot of stories to juggle.  I don't think Penny's looks have been at all muted.  I don't think she has to look like a supermodel in every episode in order to be a believable character.  In fact, the way they depict her--some days looking very put-together and others wearing sweats and chomping on pizza--makes her more real and more down-to-earth, which is fantastic, IMO.

[goblyn-ina-trenchcoat]

But the show was originally about Leonard getting a beautiful girl now it seems to be about how Leonard can put up with her.  She has commitment issues, she is a lush which is additionally problemematic since she will sleep with literally anyone if she gets drunk enough, she had only one goal in life which she has failed at and has no direction for another, and she is often bitter and depressed. 

 

A few weeks ago the writers had her contemplating breaking up with Leonard again and now she drops the L bomb.  Keep that up and we may have to add crazy to the list of her unpleasant qualities. 

 

These are all things that have happened to her character as time has passed.  She might have been a girl you take home in season one when her only problems were that they had nothing in common and had no chance at stimulating him intelligently in conversations.

 

It is like the show wants to get rid of her character or end their relationship for good so they are going out of their way to make us like her less. They are even muting her looks now with less flattering wardrobe, less make-up, and frizzy hair.  They are certainly not doing it to her because it is funny.

well said. the fairytale has become a cautionary tale.

[Ar Diem]

@Phantagrae

 

You are not really getting it.  When Sheldon was calculating the number of men she slept with it was part of the show and an attempt to assassinate her character.  It was never corrected so we are left with her being a drunken whore.  No, we don't know the exact number but that is not the point.  The show went out of its way to call her a slut.

 

The show has Sheldon talking down to Howard for not having enough education but then it makes up for it by having Howard have success in his career. That is never done with Penny.

 

It doesn't matter if she still goes on auditions it matters that she has had practically no success doing it in over 5 years.  With the number of auditions she has had to have done there is a huge sampling size to say it was a bust.  Considering she is not proud of being a waitress and she has no plans yet to do something she can be proud of she is lost.

 

When they send her to the door with big globs of food on her face it sends the message that she has given up and doesn't care who sees her looking like that.

 

When they continually put a wine glass in her hand it makes her into a lush. No we don't see her every night of the week nor drunk all the time but when her priority coming through the door is the wine bottle they paint a distinct image.

 

You are right.  We do assume they take care of the mundane things and we assume things remain the same until we are told otherwise.  For example, we don't need Bernadette referencing her work every week because we assume she still has a job.  But leaving us to assume the status quo also has an impact.  For instance, since Raj has not had success in over 5 years with women he is a bigger loser now in that regard than he was.  The same is true of Penny and her "acting" career and her ability to have a healthy relationship.

 

The have 22 shows a year to update the storylines and the characters.  Since the time Penny almost slept with Raj, Howard has gotten married and realized his dream of being in space not to mention being famous in his career.  What have they done to grow Penny's character and make her more likeable?

[C-Trayne]

Aight first I'm going to start by saying that it seems like you really just don't like Penny's character or at the least what the writers have done with her so I very well could be fighting an already lost battle but I'm gonna give it a try here.

 

First off i think you sir are the one not getting it.  The scene in question which talks about Penny's sexual partners is first off an estimate made by sheldon based on information he gained after only knowing her for like three years, second a lot of her partners likely took place when she was younger and experimenting.  Third, what is so wrong about it if the number sheldon gave is accurate?  30 partners in like 11 years??  That's like three a year... Is that really a bad thing?  I know guys right now at age 22 who have slept with over 50 girls... (not saying i agree with this, its just a fact)  Should we look down on them?  I doubt most people do since they are guys so why is it then a problem for Penny???  She may have liked enjoying herself or having a good tiem when she was younger why should we hate on her for looking for pleasure?

 

Also since the show has began I would wager the number of sexual partners that Leonard has had and Penny has had are very close the same.

 

Second, Sheldon often does put down Howard for not having a PHD you are right.  He does this though because Howard is constantly trying to prove he is smart or make himself look better.  He is the one masters holder in a group of PHD friends obviously he will take some teasing.  Penny on the other hand is a waitress, she knows she isn't smart and she doesn't try to be (although going to school again is a great first step)  There is no reason to put down her intelligence because it is accepted that she is in fact not as smart as the rest of the group... what would be the point?

 

Third, just because she hasn't had any acting jobs doesn't mean shes lost.  For starters it only means she is happy with where she is that she can go on living it.  Whats so bad about that?  She has a great bf, a nice apartment, good friends, shes happy where she is and doesn't need to worry right now.  Not only that but she isn't lost because she has started taking steps in new directions, a college course for one thing.  Just because shes not a famous movie start doesnt mean her character isn't growing. I've actually always hoped she gets away from teh acting buisness.

 

Four... when they send her to the door in sweats it simply shows that she is comfortable with who she is.  I walk around almost every day in sweat pants, baggy shirts, and slippers.  WHy? Because they are the comfiest clothes in the world and honestly i don't care what people say about it.  i'm warm and comfortable and if my clothes are what keeps others from talking to me well good I wouldn't want to talk to someone with that mindset anyways

 

Five, I don't think she is a lush and i think you might be over thinking things a bit on this one.  Just because we see her enjoy wine with her friends now and then doesn't mean she has a problem.  I admit in season 4 things were looking a bit iffy but now?  We hardly see her drinking recently and i can't even remember the last time we saw her drunk.

 

Lastly, i'm just gonna end with my thoughts on Penny's character.  i think as the show has gone on she has matured a tremendous deal and has changed a lot since the earlier seasons.  I've been watching reruns of season 3 recently and you can see the difference between her totally one track mind back then.  it really is nice to see.  Yes, you can say she was debating breaking up with Leoanrd earlier in the season but thats the thing.  The only thought about it.  She didn't go through with it because deep down she did care about him... a lot actually.  She stayed with him when she normally might not have and started putting forth more effort into her relationship.  And surprise surprise shes actually finding happiness in it.  Her and Leonard have moved to a new part in their relationship and i think they are looking great together now honestly.  I look forward to where there going especially after reading the new taping report.

 

Well theres my 2 cents on the matter.  This is not supposed to sound derogatory or insulting at all merely my counterargument to what has been posted  I apologize if it comes off that way at all.

[Nogravitasatall]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="C-Trayne" data-cid="75723" data-time="1355430612"><p>

One line i absolutely hated was in season 5 episode 7<br />

<br />

Leonard: "Priya and I are in love"<br />

<br />

He says this while trying to find a way to cheat on her and make it okay... I don't know i just feel like this line made it seem like Leonard gave away his love to easily and the fact that he siad it to penny just kinda irked me >:l</p></blockquote>

He was trying to convince himself and put up a firewall? Nope, it was lame.

[BangerMain]

Personally,the Raj/Penny thing didn't bother me much. I didn't find it that funny but it saddens me that it has ruined some people's view of the WHOLE show. That's why I don't think they should've done it, because it had a bigger impact than the writers intended. It wasn't supposed to mean anything and any jokes made about it now are just lighthearted. It hasn't ruined Raj for me or the L/P relationship but for other people it has

 

The stupid idea for the Raj/Penny hook up came from the show's principle producer, Chuck Lorre, who overruled the judgment of the chief writers and the cast members who all knew it was a disaster waiting to happen. This was Lorre's attempt to take TBBT into Two and a Half Men territory which thankfully the fans rejected.

[Nogravitasatall]

Hey, can I say too that its a bit 19th century to describe consenting adults as sluts. Evolve, dudes. And read some Heinlein, Robert A. Great American. Get some genuine sci fi geek on.

[Ar Diem]

@C-Trayne

 

I think you might have blinders on and apologize for the down-turn of her character because you love the show.  When all they do is dump on her and make practically no effort in having her character grow as a person it becomes hard to ignore.  Why couldn't the Penny Blossoms have grown into a viable business?  Why is it that we are over 5 years later and she still doesn't fully know what she wants?

 

To your first and second point... the show crafted an entire scene to call her a drunken slut and did nothing to soften it.  That is what they wanted to sell.  You totally missed the point about Howard.  When Sheldon makes fun of him they repair it by giving him success.  When Sheldon made fun of Penny for being a drunken slut they did nothing to repair it.  Just like they did nothing to repair the Penny/Raj fiasco.

 

To your third point, she is not happy, she has stated it very clearly.

 

To your fourth, sweats or not she went to the door with food all over her face.  That is something you'd expect white trash to do.  Everyone else would take a second to clean up.

 

Fifth, when she is home she is drinking.  The way she talks about needing a drink over the years suggests she uses alcohol as an crutch not just for social situations.  This makes her a lush.

 

You are right.  I don't like the direction they have taken her character.  I don't understand why in the romantic comedy portion of the show I am now thinking they have no future together.  Even if they got married it is one of those marriages that would never survive after the honeymoon phase because she brings practically nothing (but baggage) to the relationship.  I never wanted to feel this way.  I rooted for them in the beginning like everyone else. 

 

I still have hopes they fix it.  The college course and her telling him she loved him were small steps in that direction.  I don't buy that her thinking about breaking up with him but not doing it is in any way a good thing.  It meant that in that moment she still saw no future with him.  It still makes her a flake.

[C-Trayne]

i have to go to work so i have to keep this short but i only wanna touch on one point for now...

 

They never called her a slut. 

 

Amy asked her if she thought she was but why would she?  shes slept with around 30 guys over the course of 11 years.  Please explain that to me?  Most of them came in her younger days yes but averaged out thats like 3 a year theres nothing wrong with that and I don't think that scene was supposed to hit her character as hard as it did.

 

Also, since the break up in S3 we have seen Leonard with more sexual partners than Penny... does that make him a slut?

[Ar Diem]

i have to go to work so i have to keep this short but i only wanna touch on one point for now...

 

They never called her a slut. 

 

Amy asked her if she thought she was but why would she?  shes slept with around 30 guys over the course of 11 years.  Please explain that to me?  Most of them came in her younger days yes but averaged out thats like 3 a year theres nothing wrong with that and I don't think that scene was supposed to hit her character as hard as it did.

 

Also, since the break up in S3 we have seen Leonard with more sexual partners than Penny... does that make him a slut?

 

 

Leonard has had some slutty moments but I believe he has always wanted a stable relationship.  The big difference between them is Leonard has taken what has been offered to him because he doesn't get many offers.  Penny can have most of anything she wants and the show has portrayed her as quite promiscuous.  She tried to sleep with Raj, she might have slept with Stuart if Sheldon had not interferred, she slept with and had naked photos taken by a visiting married physicist.  I recall a scene where she was going out with the intent of coming back with a partner.

 

According to a study 15 is a large number for most men and women.  They doubled it for Penny.  It was like they wanted to make sure we all got it.

[bigbangsheldon]

i dont think there is ANYTHING wrong with penny sleeping with over 30 guys in her life. as long as she is being safe about it, i dont think there is any real problem in a woman sleeping around.

[koops]

Wow, that scene surely has caused a big kafuffle. I always took that scene as being there because the whole episode was essentially about "Still digging the Shamy?". Penny was superenthusiastic about the Shamy at first and the rest of the episode was just making fun of the fact that she didn't know what she was getting herself into with these two. I never thought we were meant to take away the idea that Penny is a slut or that Sheldon and Amy thinks she is. 

 

In any case, NEVER on the show it was suggested that Penny sleeping around was a bad thing. Something to make fun of, like you would of Howard's adventures pre-Bernadette, yes. But I think the idea that, because she's been shown sleeping with more people than most the other guys in the show, the writers are implying that she's a slut, is actually very sexist of the people who perceive it that way, because if she had been a guy no one would be getting offended for her by the fact that they are implying she has had many sexual partners.