The Raj/penny Scene

[C-Trayne]

So this is a subject that has been approached many times in several different topics across the forum but can never really be fully dissected since its never the main point of the topics.  Thus I'm deciding to post this here and get a bit more feedback on the subject.  I know how I feel about it and a few other members who I've had extensive conversations about it with but I'm curious about the general populace of the site as to what you guys think of the scene in general.  

 

Some questions I'm curious about are

 

a) did you like it

 

b ) was it necessary

 

c) who was at fault  Raj/Penny/Both

 

d) was it a betrayal to Leonard

 

e) any other thoughts

 

Now I'm not starting this to try and start a war on whether or not Penny is a skank or a slut or to try and prove that she is too good or bad for Leonard i am simply curious about peoples opinions on one of the more controversial scenes from the show.

Edited December 26, 2012 by C-Trayne

[Ar Diem]

Now look...  all of those worms that were in the can are all over the floor.

 

A. No.  It was agenda not comedy.

 

B. No

 

C. Both

 

D. Leonard had it coming.  It was more a of Penny betraying her own feelings and the show betraying its viewers.

 

E.  If you super heat wood without burning it the fumes can be funnelled into a car engine and power it like gasoline.

[Europa]

a) did you like it

b ) was it necessary

c) who was at fault  Raj/Penny/Both

d) was it a betrayal to Leonard

e) any other thoughts

No kidding C-Trayne, this one episode/scene has created discussion enough to deserve its own thread.   :D

 

a) No. NO.

 

b.  I don't think so. Particularly as they did nothing to follow it up other than that half-assed "take it back" they attempted with Raj's premature performance.  IMO it served only to make both characters look bad.

 

c) Both, but probably "fault" shouldn't be assigned.  They were both single consenting adults.  But it still had an element of eww that bothered me; Penny for apparently jumping in the sack with anyone, and Raj for taking advantage of the situation when he knew she was drunk. Going at it in Leonard's bed, on top of it, was particularly egregious on Penny's part - Leonard may have "moved on" in her mind, but she still knew - was told by Sheldon - that Leonard was crushed when she broke up with him, and it smacks of either blindly disrespectful or possibly even revenge? I mean her apartment is literally steps away, there is zero reason they couldn't have just crossed the hall.

 

d) Yes, but mostly because of the location.  See c). As an emotional betrayal of Leonard, not so much. As far as she knows, he's happy with Priya and no longer giving her a second thought.

 

e) Something'll come to me later.  

Edited December 26, 2012 by Europa

[C-Trayne]

you know everyone likes to mention Leonard's bed which to me isn't the part of it thats the big deal.  Don't get me wrong the whole thing sucks and I hate the idea of Raj and Penny together and i feel like the scene damaged the reputations of both characters (raj moreso than Penny) but the reason the location isn't as big of an issue is because hasn't Leonard been having sex with Priya in Raj's bed for like several weeks or even months before this happens?

[Europa]

Yes, but Raj and Leonard never had a sexual relationship.

 

That we know of.  

[Chrismo]

A) Yes No C) Neither D) No. Leonard was sleeping with Raj's sister and flaunted Priya at Penny E) Don't understand why everyone is so devastated by what happened

[Zhalen565]

No kidding C-Trayne, this one episode/scene has created discussion enough to deserve its own thread.   :D

 

a) No. NO.

 

b.  I don't think so. Particularly as they did nothing to follow it up other than that half-assed "take it back" they attempted with Raj's premature performance.  IMO it served only to make both characters look bad.

 

c) Both, but probably "fault" shouldn't be assigned.  They were both single consenting adults.  But it still had an element of eww that bothered me; Penny for apparently jumping in the sack with anyone, and Raj for taking advantage of the situation when he knew she was drunk. Going at it in Leonard's bed, on top of it, was particularly egregious on Penny's part - Leonard may have "moved on" in her mind, but she still knew - was told by Sheldon - that Leonard was crushed when she broke up with him, and it smacks of either blindly disrespectful or possibly even revenge? I mean her apartment is literally steps away, there is zero reason they couldn't have just crossed the hall.

 

d) Yes, but mostly because of the location.  See c). As an emotional betrayal of Leonard, not so much. As far as she knows, he's happy with Priya and no longer giving her a second thought.

 

e) Something'll come to me later.  

More or less my feelings, it says a lot about this incident,that, out of all the seasons whenever this is episode is on I make a point of boycotting it, even in the midst of episode marathons. Wrong, wrong, wrong, on so many levels

[Slicknickshady]

They didnt have sex. That's all i care about.

 

I wish the scene didnt happen. I didnt get it at the time. But at least they didnt have sex. That doesn't male it ok in my book but at least they didnt have sex.

 

People think that means i don't mind the scene when i saw that, no it doesn't mean that. I hate the scene. But facts are facts and they didnt have sex.

[Moonbase]

a) no it was weird

not at all

c) both were at fault but Penny expressed regret, Raj didn't.

d) Leonard didn't seem to care. But Penny had just been talking about Leonard and it happened in his bed so it was definitely about him!!

e) They swept this one under the carpet. I was glad they hadn't have sex as well but the whole thing knocked Penny off her pedestal for some fans. She became like the rest of us drunk, lonely and using sex to feel better. Most of us have done that right? …right?

I think I know why Lorre did it. Leonard was on the back foot when Penny dumped him in 3.19 so the writers gave him Priya to improve his standing. But in order to get Lenny back together, they had to take Penny down a notch. Make her fallible. I don't agree with the way that they did it but she does have a much more believable personality now. The most important thing was Leonard was okay with her about it. In the same episode we hear Priya is returning to India, signalling Leonard would be single again soon. 14 episodes later Lenny are dating again, it was all a set-up to make that possible.
 

[BangerMain]

More or less my feelings, it says a lot about this incident,that, out of all the seasons whenever this is episode is on I make a point of boycotting it, even in the midst of episode marathons. Wrong, wrong, wrong, on so many levels

 

My feelings exactly. I have seen that episode only when it first aired and I think that was one time too many.

[BangerMain]

I think I know why Lorre did it. Leonard was on the back foot when Penny dumped him in 3.19 so the writers gave him Priya to improve his standing. But in order to get Lenny back together, they had to take Penny down a notch. Make her fallible. I don't agree with the way that they did it but she does have a much more believable personality now. The most important thing was Leonard was okay with her about it. In the same episode we hear Priya is returning to India, signalling Leonard would be single again soon. 14 episodes later Lenny are dating again, it was all a set-up to make that possible.

That explanation of why Lorre over ruled the writers and actors and forced them to do that abomination is as good as any. He had been trashing Penny and making her suffer for dumping Leonard for most of the fourth season. But Lorre was the one who composed the story line for the writers to have Penny dump Leonard in the first place.

 

Lorre obviously wanted L/P back together but with the sweet little "dream girl" badly diminished.

Edited December 26, 2012 by BangerMain

[koops]

a) did you like it: No. 

 

b ) was it necessary: Absolutely not. I don't see the point in that scene at all, it's just to shock the audience and makes no sense whatsoever.

 

c) who was at fault  Raj/Penny/Both: Both, although I'd put the blame on Raj more than Penny, especially because to this day he doesn't seem to regret it at all.

 

d) was it a betrayal to Leonard: more on Raj's part than Penny's. I know they were technically not dating at the time, but it's an unwritten bro rule that you don't hit on your close friend's ex. 

 

e) any other thoughts: the thing that bothers me the most about the whole debacle isn't the season finale as much as the season premiere, the fact that we are meant to feel better they didn't go through with it because Raj finished to soon is just ridiculous. 

[C-Trayne]

I think I know why Lorre did it. Leonard was on the back foot when Penny dumped him in 3.19 so the writers gave him Priya to improve his standing. But in order to get Lenny back together, they had to take Penny down a notch. Make her fallible. I don't agree with the way that they did it but she does have a much more believable personality now. The most important thing was Leonard was okay with her about it. In the same episode we hear Priya is returning to India, signalling Leonard would be single again soon. 14 episodes later Lenny are dating again, it was all a set-up to make that possible.

 

 

This is actually a very good way of looking at it I think.  I hadn't considered that it was used as a way of bringing the Leonard and Penny to more or less the same level emotionally thus a way for them to start getting closer to getting back together... that doesn't mean i like it but certainly gives some perspective on the whole deal.

 

That explanation of why Lorre over ruled the writers and actors and forced them to do that abomination is as good as any. He had been trashing Penny and making her suffer for dumping Leonard for the most of the fourth season. But Lorre was the one who composed the story line for the writers to have Penny dump Leonard in the first place.

 

Lorre obviously wanted L/P back together but with the  sweet little "dream girl" badly diminished.

 

Yea I've been watching season 3 again recently and it was just like you said Penny was his dream girl and she was kind of a whiny drama queen in reality.  She was up on her high horse with a boyfriend who wouldn't only ask how high, when she said jump, he was asking, how far? one foot or two? and forwards or backwards?

 

So i agree that in the long run this may have benefited Penny's character and knocked her down a peg or two so that she could start better appreciating Leonard but i think they could have gone about doing it in a much better way that doesn't involve a night in bed with Raj... ugh everytiem i read those words i shudder... like WTF

[AdorkablyMe]

a) did you like it - Yeah, I thought their reactions were spot on and hilarious. Penny's "Oh, God" cracks me up every time! And the fact that Raj still has trouble talking to her afterwards was quite funny too :D

b ) was it necessary - Of course not

c) who was at fault Raj/Penny/Both - Both were in the bed, both were drunk, so I'd say both.

d) was it a betrayal to Leonard - From Raj more so than Penny.

e) any other thoughts - If you're travelling at the speed of light, and you look at yourself in a mirror that you're holding, what would you see?

[Nogravitasatall]

a) did not "like" it, but it was akin jumping into the ice pool after a sauna. And it washed away some of the sugar coating on this genre and said to the audience, hey some of you are adults, deal with it. It was a "visceral clutch" sort of event. And it was funny.

b ) something needed to be done to make the show exceptional again. It added an unexpected dimension to the relationships. They walked back from it because it did its job. We are still thinking about. It heightened our engagement. People here fear it happening again. Also Leonard's response and acceptance was totally intellectual, like the show purports to be.

c) Raj, but really alcohol. I don't think alcohol is a legal defence. If they were both stonkered still Raj, beccause of physiology. He wanted to proceed.

d) Raj, because of his intent. Penny had informed him of her sentiments and he took advantage. Opposite of Leonard in similar circumstance.

e)I recently read the thread from the time of the event. Some sooks said they would boycott the show and abandon their love. If they did then they were uncommitted and are now missing out. "Neener, neener" to them.

Good question C-trayne.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Nogravitasatall

[Doug]

a) No.
 

B  It did not even make sense. For example how does Raj not know his sister is goig back to India?
c) Everybody, nobody, alcohol, stupidity, Lorre take your pick.
d) Priya yes. Everybody else no.
e) It would have been better without the crash. Leonard living with Priya who is becoming friends with Penny and maybe Sheldon. Raj living with Sheldon being able to talk to Penny and having a real storyline.
 

Edited December 26, 2012 by Doug

[annieogly]

Just need to clarify this: c) who is at fault. The one who isn't drunk. Drunk people cannot give legal 'consent' and having sex with a drunk person can lead to a rape charge. I never found Leonard having sex with drunk Penny funny; it's dangerous and stupid.

 

I would have enjoyed Raj moving in with Sheldon, it was a very funny bit and could have led to more for his character. I like Raj but the writers just keep him boxed in sadly enough.

[C-Trayne]

a) No.

 

B  It did not even make sense. For example how does Raj not know his sister is goig back to India?

c) Everybody, nobody, alcohol, stupidity, Lorre take your pick.

d) Priya yes. Everybody else no.

e) It would have been better without the crash. Leonard living with Priya who is becoming friends with Penny and maybe Sheldon. Raj living with Sheldon being able to talk to Penny and having a real storyline.

 

 

u might be the first person i've talked too who wished Priya had stayed... everyone i know/talked too including myself couldn't stand her haha

[annieogly]

u might be the first person i've talked too who wished Priya had stayed... everyone i know/talked too including myself couldn't stand her haha

 

I like Priya too, she served more than as placeholder as a girlfriend; she furthered the plot; Raj moving in with Sheldon, developing a relationship with Penny. Priya also fought superbly with Sheldon, she really stood up to him and was funny.

[Kutra]

The fault was Raj's as he was the only person in control of his senses.But Raj has never liked the fact that Leonard was having sex with his sister and pretty much hid it from him initially.They should have explained the scene from Raj's perspective tht way as his way of getting back at Leonard.Would have made him look less of a douche,though he never did anything wrong technically.Both were single.

[Chrismo]

The fault was Raj's as he was the only person in control of his senses.But Raj has never liked the fact that Leonard was having sex with his sister and pretty much hid it from him initially.They should have explained the scene from Raj's perspective tht way as his way of getting back at Leonard.Would have made him look less of a douche,though he never did anything wrong technically.Both were single.

Good point.

[Kati]

It was unnecessary. I mean, I do see the idea, they were trying to create a tension and a BIG deal about the episode to make more people watch the next one, but there were more decent ways to do it, without harming the characters. 

As for who wouldve been guilty, both were. Penny may have been drunk but still, she slept with a friend of Leonard in his bed. Raj betrayed his friend too, but if you stop to think about Raj, it's part of his recurring personality. He not only did this, but he wanted Bernadette as well. And AFTER it happened (or didn't happen, because some people may say there is no betrayal cus they didn't have sex, but well, that IS betrayal to me anyway as they were about to have sex), Raj still wanted to go on with it and play her boyfriend. 

 

I know technically both were single, but there were feelings involved. You do not sleep with your friend's crush. Yes, Leonard slept with Raj's sister, but that's something completely different. Raj has to understand Priya has a life and she has to live it. 

[C-Trayne]

The fault was Raj's as he was the only person in control of his senses.But Raj has never liked the fact that Leonard was having sex with his sister and pretty much hid it from him initially.They should have explained the scene from Raj's perspective tht way as his way of getting back at Leonard.Would have made him look less of a douche,though he never did anything wrong technically.Both were single.

 

Honestly i think he comes off as a douche from the scene already because he was simply taking advantage of a situatoin where a girl admitted she didn't want to sleep with him but got to drunk to say no...

 

However, i think if they had gone through this and made it about him getting back at Leonard then he would have come off as even more of a dick and made a lot of people hate him.  Leonard and Priya entered a committed and meaningful relationship, one that was about caring for the other.  Its not like Leonard was using Priya to f*** and then leave her on the side of the road.  They are both consenting adults who were in a real relationship, they can choose to be together and sleep together.  Its hard to have Raj be angry about this and have it really make sense.

 

Now this can bring the argument that Penny and Raj can consent to have sex since they are both adults too.  I would agree... if they weren't drunk.  When someone is blackout drunk they can not legally consent too... well anything really, and if she really wanted Penny could likely not only press rape charges should could likely win.  I'm not saying she should/would or would i want her too, I'm simply making a point.  Raj was clearly coherent enough to know what was going on and Penny wasn't since he remembered but she didn't.  This means he knew she didn't want to sleep with him yet when she was too drunk to say no he took advantage of the situation and that to me is a douche bag move.  Especially with your best friends ex who he clearly still cares for greatly... that's a serious breach of the bro code my friends.

Edited December 31, 2012 by C-Trayne

[Kutra]

A friend having secret sex with your sister behind your back is a much much bigger break of the Bro code in my opinion than hitting on your friends ex.

[C-Trayne]

Debatable... and in Leonard's defense he did come clean and admit it