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Penny... Rachel Green 2.0?


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Rachel made her way through college first.If Penny did not want to slog in rural America,she should have completed college first.

 

It is just a big thing for me.Anyone who does not study in school or college really bugs me.The average person will not reach full potential without education.If my child wants to become an actress best of luck to her but she will have to complete 4 years of college before wasting her time(as the chances for sucess r very small) because those years are never coming back.

 

Good grief, it's not as though once you've hit 22 they don't let you into college. Not everybody follows the same path in life. 

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I don't know if this has been mentioned at all on the forums before, but lately whenever I watch an episode from S3 onwards, Penny seems to have morphed into Rachel from Friends. Her mannerisms, facia

Since the very first season the definition of the Penny character is one of a failure in her career endeavors and most other things in her life. She is the beautiful loser. And as the series has progr

None of that indicates dumb, it indicates a lack of knowledge. The two aren't the same. You could easily say that the four guys are dumb because the can't rebuild internal combustion engines, hook w

Rachel made her way through college first.If Penny did not want to slog in rural America,she should have completed college first.

It is just a big thing for me.Anyone who does not study in school or college really bugs me.The average person will not reach full potential without education.If my child wants to become an actress best of luck to her but she will have to complete 4 years of college before wasting her time(as the chances for sucess r very small) because those years are never coming back.

A little absolute, if not well intended. Life doesn't always pan out as you hope. And people can restart. I've said before my wife is a mature age doctoral candidate with a trade certificate, a BA (double major), MA and now working on an Ed. D. She started uni at 26. Worked the whole time too. This is why I get hot under the collar about the adult education thing.

Also Brian Brown is a trained actuary and Rebel Wilson studied law. Two successful actors who totally don't use their tertiary qualifications. George Miller is a trained doctor and he makes movies. I think you will find others. Many people study and never follow that career path. We live longer now and might have three careers. It's more about lifelong learning.

And Penny is changing her track so you should be happy for her. Also you will find that you might be looking down your nose at a fairly large part of the population.

But I can't make you like her. And it is only a show.

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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So why did she cheat on her history paper again?

Because she wanted to make sure Leonard didn't bother her about it anymore? She wasn't planning on cheating until Leonard rewrote it.

 

The show has made it pretty clear she is unhappy with her life and how it has turned out so far.  Is that true of you or your daughter?

 

Which has what to do with your comment, about your handyman, "If he were an aspiring actor after 6+ years of trying while working in a restaurant I would think he was a moron."?   I was just pointing out that my daughter, for the first six years of her career,  didn't find much work as an actor, was working in a restaurant and it didn't seem moronic to me.   The example of myself was in response to your asking why, if she was a good mechanic, didn't she pursue being a mechanic.   I gave you an example as to why I didn't pursue a longer career in programming, because I didn't like it, even though I was good at it. She wanted to try and be an actress.

The show has taken numerous shots at her intelligence.  I take it at face value while you downplay it with all kinds of past episodes and personal experiences.

 

Yep, it has taken some shots. It's also given examples of her intelligence. I take those at face value, while you downplay those instance. As far as the personal experiences, I answered your personal experience with your handyman with my own personal experience?

 

I am not going to work that hard for a TV show.

Then don't.

If the show kills her in the next episode I am not going to believe she is still alive because I saw her alive in previous episodes.

But that doesn’t change the fact that she was alive in those previous episodes. If she has the intelligence and ability to rebuild an engine, in previous episodes, that doesn't go away just because they take a shot of a different aspect of her intelligence, in a latter episode.

 

I will take it at face value.

Then why are you not taking examples of her intelligence at face value?

If the show wants us to see her differently it would not leave it up for interpretation.  It would make a clear statement.

I think it does make a clear statement. It's just my interpretation of the statement is the opposite of your interpretation. YMMV

It doesn't do that because it wants to have that vehicle for us to laugh at her when they want us to.

Do you have some quote from the writers or producers to this effect, or is this your interpretation? If the latter, I disagree. YMMV

It also wants to leave it a little vague so we don't consider her a total loser but the problem is they do so little to redeem her it is hard not to see it that way anyway.

Do you have some quote from the writers or producers to this effect, or is this your interpretation? If it's the latter, I find it hard to see it that way. If she was homeless, not working, and on drugs, or prostituting herself, you would probably get me to agree with her being a total loser. Someone who is working, supports herself, and is going back to school can hardly be called a total loser.

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Did your daughter have as little acting work as Penny?  If she had money to take a class would she have taken a history class or an acting class to help her career?  Was she satisfied being a waitress until her big breaks started coming in?  

 

Would your daughter feel very insecure dating an intellectual?

 

Were the writers trying to make Penny look smart when they had her say she could rebuild a tractor or was that a shot at her only having hick skills?  Would a tractor mechanic drive around for years in a vehicle with a check engine light on?

 

We are not watching your daughter who triumphed in her chosen field.  We are watching a character in a sitcom. It is clear your interpretations are biased though.

 

No I don't have quotes from the writers or producers but let me ask you this, why did they do the comic book gag?  Was it supposed to be a heartwarming moment?  Did it bring them all closer together as friends?  I mean, come on, a comic book doesn't even have that many words in it.  What response was I supposed to have and what was the message they sent me?

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Did your daughter have as little acting work as Penny?

Not enough to support her. Six paid shows in eight years, with four of those in the last two years. Of course, she was able to do non-paying shows. There is a noted lack of Community television, in the same vein as Community Theatre.

If she had money to take a class would she have taken a history class or an acting class to help her career?

Actually, she hasn't taken an acting class (outside of her performing arts high school). Penny has paid for and taken acting classes.

Was she satisfied being a waitress until her big breaks started coming in?

She was quite satisfied with being a waitress while working at becoming an actress. She enjoys people, and was quite happy with the pay, compared to the income in this area.

 

Would your daughter feel very insecure dating an intellectual?

Probably not. She is one.

 

Were the writers trying to make Penny look smart when they had her say she could rebuild a tractor or was that a shot at her only having hick skills?

You were insinuating that Penny was somehow incapable of learning anything. The whole tractor thing was to point out that if that was the case, she wouldn't have known enough to be able to rebuild the engine. The fact that she could rebuild the engine indicates she is capable of learning.

Would a tractor mechanic drive around for years in a vehicle with a check engine light on?

Who said she was a mechanic? I said she could rebuild an engine. The two are not synonymous.

We are not watching your daughter who triumphed in her chosen field.

She's just at the point of being able to make a living at being an actor, that's hardly a triumph. She may never be famous, but she should be able to make a living in regional theatres and summerstock with some voicework and commercials (which she just started doing). And, in reality, her love of just doing shows would allow her to do one or two professional shows a year, and work as a waitress the rest of the time.

We are watching a character in a sitcom. It is clear your interpretations are biased though.

As it is clear that your interpretations are biased. What's your point? Isn't the reason that we're going back and forth on this a case of each of us interpreting the show, based on our biases? I believe each of us is trying to give examples of our points of view. We just don't agree on some of the interpretation.

No I don't have quotes from the writers or producers but let me ask you this, why did they do the comic book gag?  Was it supposed to be a heartwarming moment?  Did it bring them all closer together as friends?

Could it be they wanted to get a laugh?

I mean, come on, a comic book doesn't even have that many words in it.  What response was I supposed to have and what was the message they sent me?

I can point out where everyone as done something that could be seen as not being all that intelligent. Do we focus on only those things and ignore the instances where they are being intelligent? What about the point, during the comic book argument, Penny made about being anyone being able to pick up Thor's hammer in space, because of weightlessness? You don't think that point indicates a some sort of grasp of science?

Look, both our biases tend to color how we look at, and interpret the show. If you want to point out specific instances that support your opinion, go for it, it doesn’t bother me. Hell, I like a lot of your analysis (off the top of my head, your points about the babies are great)those I disagree with, I try to give you examples that I think refute your position. What I usually object to are blanket statements and I will point out specifics that refute blanket statements. Doesn’t mean I don’t agree with you in a general sense, if the blanket statement is balanced with the specifics that don’t fit that blanket statement. And, I'll assume you will continue to give examples that support your contentions. That's what's supposed to be fun about these type forums, right?

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I am biased for sure.  I am naturally very protective of women so even fictionally it bothers me when shots are taken.  Suffice it to say I have never laughed when they have painted her as dumb.

 

I lash out because I really want them to make a better effort to even her out.  At least give us a reason to believe that relationship is based on something more than looks, sex, and affection.

 

The tractor thing doesn't work that well for me because it must not have been emphasized enough for me to remember it even happening.  However when they paint her as dumb they put plenty of emphasis on it.

 

Howard had just been to space so her knowledge of it should have gone up a little.

 

Anyway we are splitting hairs way too much.

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Yipee,Penny knows that space is weighless, my 9 year old nephew knows far more than that abt space.Pretty sure he knows the sun does not rise up in space!!

 

Presumably she has her GED, but still shows huge lack of knowedge of basic school level stuff....I guess she was being popular and trying not to be pregnant when she shd have been studying.A nice lesson to kids,you don't study you end by being the waitress.The nerds go to space and have rewarding careers.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm going to comment on what I think the original post was about...

 

Yes, in the recent seasons I have noticed that Kaley's acting is very similar in the way Jennifer Anniston played Rachel.  Most recently in the Cooper/Kripke episode when Penny tells Leonard he should get the doll figure...but not.   The mannerism was very very similar

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I didn't notice Rachel's lack of intelligence that much, apart from when she was with Ross who was also a scientist. However, there have been glimpses of Penny's intelligence, and I think they need to further her career in some way. I like what they're doing with the college thing, but she should be able to get a respectable grade without Amy and Bernadette's help. She should eventually get a fairly big acting job, in my opinion. I think it'd be amazing to have her present some sort of science documentary where she only requires rudimentary knowledge of science, but she can work with Sheldon and Leonard on it, and interview them etc. That'd be a story which would get her acting career moving forwards but still keeping the other character in those scenes as well.

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Bad student, almost certainly.  Ignorant of various things, yes.  Dumb, no.   The answer to her being a bad student is probably in the tag of The Staircase Implementation (where she celebrates the pregnancy test showing negative) or in her father's statement about the potpourri in her dresser.  It indicates that she treated school as a place to socialize, rather than to learn.  

 

There is a huge difference between not knowing (or being ignorant) and not being able to learn.   There's even a huge difference between being able to learn, and not learning for various reasons and not being able to learn.    I'd be interested in knowing why you think a problem with reading equates to dumb?   Studies have shown that those that do a lot of reading, when young, become better at it, and as a result, read more and get better at reading.   These people tend to go farther and do better in school.    I can point you to any number of studies that show that there is no correlation between reading skill and intelligence.    Low skill readers can be taught to become skillful at reading, with remedial training.   You're trying to compare the reading skills of two people who have PhDs (correlating to having good reading skills) and one (Penny) that, very probably was not a good reader to start with, shied away from reading because she wasn't very good, becoming worse at it.    

 

 As for what the average sixth grader knows, my daughter, who does substitute teaching is astounded at what high school students don't know.  But that does not mean they are  incapable of learning.   I'd say, conservatively,  more than 90% of people can't rebuild a tractor engine.  Are all of them dumb compared to Penny?   Can you point out where you think my answer to Kutra is somehow mad?  All I was doing was presenting examples that refute the contentions.   And, how is it fair that there is a group that calls her dumb, because she lacks knowledge of certain things, while ignoring examples where she has knowledge that others don't?    

 

I know this is an older post, but I thought I would jump in on this.

 

First I don’t think Penny is dumb, I think she is a bit lazy and also likes playing the ditzy blond (no offense meant to any blonds out there).  I have seen many people have perceptions of themselves or want to project a perception to make people underestimate them and run with it, sometimes without thinking about it.

 

Like it’s said skill sets don’t show intelligence and Penny has shown in the past she can do things the guys can’t and vice versa.  Like it was said, baiting a hook and cleaning fish is a skill set, I have known intelligent people who to be blunt couldn’t do this.

As for the speed she read the comic book, remember she was “competing” with two academic, who if they were real would likely read faster than the majority on this board.  So I didn’t take that as Penny being dumb, more as she was squared off against two people who read quickly for a living (if you’re doing research, you have to read a lot).

I think Penny’s issue is not intelligence, its motivation.  She doesn’t have to become an academic (in fact I think that would be bad for the show), but it would be nice for her to find something that motivates her outside of acting (sorry I think that’s not going to work out) or being a waitress.

 

Edited by Dbear12

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I've said it before, and I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but the topic is at hand... The entire show has become Friends 2.0, not just Penny.

 

 

Yes, you do, otherwise you'd have stopped doing it. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2

 

Just for conversation sake, here's a snippet of a season 4 Blu-ray review. This is from the same reviewer, who in his season 3 review said TBBT was not Friends. Enjoy...

 

Every sitcom has a cadence. A beat. A rythym. Sometimes it exists between the cast (Parks and Recreation), sometimes between the showrunners and the audience (It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia), sometimes between the characters and their stories (Modern Family), sometimes between a pop culture wink and a movie parody nudge (Community), and sometimes -- just sometimes -- between a series' writers and the gods of meta-comedy themselves (Arrested Development). But The Big Bang Theory's rythym is an outdated, altogether tiresome tik tik TAKtik tik TAK. Reference, joke, LAUGH. Reference, joke, LAUGH. The references, though, are pre-cooked and oh so user-friendly. Even when the writers venture beyond the Neutral Zone, Penny (Kaley Cuoco) feigns confusion and is immediately schooled on exactly why the omnipresent live audience just had its most recent seizure. I'll admit I may be over analyzing a show that's meant to be quick-hit casual-geek escapism, but once you hear theBig Bang rythym, you can't unhear it. Once you realize it's merely a Friends clone by way of the United Federation of Planets, it loses its sheen. Once you notice how stilted each actor's delivery sometimes is (as if every perfectly framed setup and punchline is an exercise in precision staccato), Leonard and Sheldon suddenly seem like the contrived and, oddly enough, ordinary Children of the Sitcom Atom they are. He's Ross, he's a Ross-ier Ross. Oh, and here's a Jewish Ross and an Indian Ross for good measure. The only difference is the Rosses outnumber the Rachels, Chandlers, Joeys, Monicas and Phoebes four to one. Five to one if you factor in Mayim Bialik, who essentially exists as fem-Sheldon rather than a new, more formula-rippling love interest.

 

I'm not saying I completely agree with this review, as I do like TBBT. The thing is, I can admit what it's become.

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Penny said it herself, "I'm pretty...I get by." She doesn't pursue knowledge, she pursues pop culture. "I can name all the Kardashians..." She thought she could get by in her acting career just by being pretty. I do, however, hope the writers allow her to be at least a little successful. I still don't see why the don't grab onto her commercial with Shatner. She has a career, the guys are so jealous. What a story line!

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Penny said it herself, "I'm pretty...I get by." She doesn't pursue knowledge, she pursues pop culture. "I can name all the Kardashians..." She thought she could get by in her acting career just by being pretty. I do, however, hope the writers allow her to be at least a little successful. I still don't see why the don't grab onto her commercial with Shatner. She has a career, the guys are so jealous. What a story line!

 

I'd thought the exact same thing. That could be Penny's big break and could be Shatner's introduction for (at minimum) a guest spot. I'm extremely positive Kaley was chosen to play Shatner's Daughter BECAUSE of her TBBT role.

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Is it a Friends 2.0? No. The premise is still unique and completely different from that of Friends. There are certainly differences between Penny and Rachel as well. Moreover, there are huge differences between the five doctors and the mister, and Ross.

 

When there is no sign of the premise of The Big Bang Theory in a certain scene, does it resemble Friends? At times, yes. At times, no. Even the relationship situations can be different. However, in my opinion, relationships are relationships, no matter what the circumstances. The same set of emotions get appealed to every single time. So, in the 'At times, yes' bits, I worry, but for the majority of the time in this season, I've found it enjoyable.

 

Season 5, to be fair to those who say that TBBT is Friends 2.0, had a lot of those 'at times, yes' bits, which worried me. Nevertheless, Season 6 is a vast improvement.

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Is it a Friends 2.0? No. The premise is still unique and completely different from that of Friends. There are certainly differences between Penny and Rachel as well. Moreover, there are huge differences between the five doctors and the mister, and Ross.

 

When there is no sign of the premise of The Big Bang Theory in a certain scene, does it resemble Friends? At times, yes. At times, no. Even the relationship situations can be different. However, in my opinion, relationships are relationships, no matter what the circumstances. The same set of emotions get appealed to every single time. So, in the 'At times, yes' bits, I worry, but for the majority of the time in this season, I've found it enjoyable.

 

Season 5, to be fair to those who say that TBBT is Friends 2.0, had a lot of those 'at times, yes' bits, which worried me. Nevertheless, Season 6 is a vast improvement.

 

I agree. What I have seen of season 6 is an improvement. There were even a couple of pretty good season 5 episodes. I especially liked the garbage chair episode & the one with Lovey Dovey.

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None of that indicates dumb, it indicates a lack of knowledge. The two aren't the same. You could easily say that the four guys are dumb because the can't rebuild internal combustion engines, hook worms, or gut fish or kill spiders.. All of which Penny can do. But, then, that's was the premise of the show, wasn't it.

I agree with this whole heartedly

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I see no comparsion at all of TBBT being like Friends. 

 

However, I do notice that Kaley seems to be using a lot of Jennifer/Rachel mannerism in these episodes.  Notably, in the spoiler alert episode and she is standing behind Leonard while conversing with Sheldon....that whole scene reminded me of Rachel.

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I see no comparsion at all of TBBT being like Friends. 

 

However, I do notice that Kaley seems to be using a lot of Jennifer/Rachel mannerism in these episodes.  Notably, in the spoiler alert episode and she is standing behind Leonard while conversing with Sheldon....that whole scene reminded me of Rachel.

 

You need glasses.  :icon_wink:

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  • 2 months later...

Hello, I am a professional Friends viewer.  (LOL) and the only reason why I found this forum is because I was curious if anybody else saw what I am seeing in Penny lately.  I am barely getting through the third season and yes, I totally see it.  I love them both though.  

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Hello, I am a professional Friends viewer.  (LOL) and the only reason why I found this forum is because I was curious if anybody else saw what I am seeing in Penny lately.  I am barely getting through the third season and yes, I totally see it.  I love them both though.  

 

Hey Karina welcome here :)

I am not new to this forum and this issue has been discussed in some other threads of this forum already.

A few members of the board see what you see ...in Penny.. but others don't see it.

I don't see Penny as the same as with Rachel (from Friends). Perhaps the bubbly personalities but not the facial expressions, I reckon.

I gather as much that Penny has changed a great deal from the first season up to the 6 season of the show. She's more rounded now delivering lines more ironic and sarcastic from the Penny a bit shy  and naive she has shown to be previously.

Edited by wannamaker

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There are still some big differences between Rachel and Penny, so I wouldn't call Penny a Rachel Green 2.0 yet.

What's more troubling is the whole show becoming Friends 2.0. The first three seasons were perfect. Season 4 was 50 -50. And then came Season 5 ... barely watchable (for TBBT fans since the very beginning and not for newcomers). The first half of Season 6 was a big improvement in that regard. The second not so much, the last episodes are not that good (but at least somehow watchable). I know I may be overly critical, but if you set the bar so high (Season 1 - 3) I guess disappointment is bound to occur.

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There are still some big differences between Rachel and Penny, so I wouldn't call Penny a Rachel Green 2.0 yet.

What's more troubling is the whole show becoming Friends 2.0. The first three seasons were perfect. Season 4 was 50 -50. And then came Season 5 ... barely watchable (for TBBT fans since the very beginning and not for newcomers). The first half of Season 6 was a big improvement in that regard. The second not so much, the last episodes are not that good (but at least somehow watchable). I know I may be overly critical, but if you set the bar so high (Season 1 - 3) I guess disappointment is bound to occur.

For some TBBT fans. Don't include me with the phase locked, please. I've been on board since day one, because of the nerd relationship, and Ive been nerdish since Fireball XL5.

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For some TBBT fans. Don't include me with the phase locked, please. I've been on board since day one, because of the nerd relationship, and Ive been nerdish since Fireball XL5.

 

Fair enough. :D I shouldn't have generalized.

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There are still some big differences between Rachel and Penny, so I wouldn't call Penny a Rachel Green 2.0 yet.

What's more troubling is the whole show becoming Friends 2.0. The first three seasons were perfect. Season 4 was 50 -50. And then came Season 5 ... barely watchable (for TBBT fans since the very beginning and not for newcomers). The first half of Season 6 was a big improvement in that regard. The second not so much, the last episodes are not that good (but at least somehow watchable). I know I may be overly critical, but if you set the bar so high (Season 1 - 3) I guess disappointment is bound to occur.

The problem is the show couldn't stay the same after Penny broke up with Leonard. The episodes to me after that had to go in a different direction. The five of them couldn't interact the same way again. Something had to be added. Such a big thing on the show was Leonard and Penny together and that was at least for a while gone. That's why you got Amy, Bernadette and Priya. If things had stayed with just the five the show may not even be on the air. Just look at the Shamy thread. The show is much more popular now than it ever was in the first three seasons.

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Penny said it herself, "I'm pretty...I get by." She doesn't pursue knowledge, she pursues pop culture. "I can name all the Kardashians..." She thought she could get by in her acting career just by being pretty. I do, however, hope the writers allow her to be at least a little successful. I still don't see why the don't grab onto her commercial with Shatner. She has a career, the guys are so jealous. What a story line!

 

I wish that for Penny just as well :) it would make the guys rather jealous I think.

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