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Only Idiots Think Leonard And Penny Is Only About Sex.


Slicknickshady
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For the time being.When they move out of the apartment or get married if she remains just a waitress,he will really start to feel the effect of one person carrying the load.

 

Would be sad to hear this conversation at an Academic event

 

Dr Hofstader, this is my wife Dr or "put the professional field of your choice"

Leonard:- And this is my wife Penny the waitress!!

 

Well I think if Leonard given a chance would introduce Penny with something along these lines...

 

Leonard : And this is Penny my wife and my life ;)

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Well I think if Leonard given a chance would introduce Penny with something along these lines...

 

Leonard : And this is Penny my wife and my life ;)

Or, "This is my wife, Penny, she stays home and is raising our children."

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I've never thought that Leonard and Penny was just about sex, if that were the case I don't think they'd be together anymore nor would they constantly be pulled into each others orbit so to speak. I think both characters are drawn to one another at times for reasons that neither character completely understands only that there is a very strong need to be with that other person.

 

On the other hand the writers do have a tendency to go a bit overboard with the cheap sex jokes when it comes to this pair so in a way they are(whether they realize it or not)giving life to the point of view that their relationship is based more on sex than it should be at times.

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Don't forget that she makes him happy. The others didn't. That might count for something. Maybe she smells nice to him and turn about. Pheromones are important too. Propinquity also counts as my mum used to say. IDK. They now have duration.

And as regard to latitude it's a fair cop.

Though I thought it telling that it was the intellectuals that went the biff about the car parking. Penny gets it in the neck for untidiness.

Let Sheldon and Howard have their perfect matches. I'm still happy with the imperfect and will accept the conceit.

 

 

Pheromones and propinquity... lol... you might as just as well said their relationship is based on sex and convenience.

 

Sheldon and Howard have relationships that are also based on respect.  We know Leonard does not respect Penny's intelligence.

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The next Peg Bundy... lol.

 

It is kind of telling you put her in a domestic capacity.

So a stay at home mother deserves ridicule and mocking? If she chooses it, what is the problem? I could give you plenty of examples of good mothers, who chose to stay at home at certain points while raising children, but you've made it clear that you don't like facts from experience.

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Pheromones and propinquity... lol... you might as just as well said their relationship is based on sex and convenience.

 

Sheldon and Howard have relationships that are also based on respect.  We know Leonard does not respect Penny's intelligence.

 

yup, within certain parameters that does count for a lot. How did the others hook up? Unless someone else is selecting for you, propinquity counts heaps.  I think also you could use the exotic attraction argument, where you find people oddly attracted to those that are nothing like them. Generally people do choose to partner with people just like themselves but not always. Leonard is just using different criteria than his cohort. No intellectual chauvinism for him. And for his own reasons that we can only guess at. He is forming a relationship with someone not like him, across an intellectual line, not a religious, race or nationality one. Additionally he likes Penny and she likes him - the duration of their association proves this. Counts even more than lust IMHO.

 

I'd say he understands her intelligence. Happy to see cases where he has been casually disrespectful. When they fought in the pub his feelings were hurt and he was using all the artillery he could muster so they went out of bounds  - but made amends.

 

Sheldon is the opposite case - he is remaining tightly constrained is his selections - but he does like Amy and is apparently getting a handle on the lust thing.

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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yup, within certain parameters that does count for a lot. How did the others hook up? Unless someone else is selecting for you, propinquity counts heaps.  I think also you could use the exotic attraction argument, where you find people oddly attracted to those that are nothing like them. Generally people do choose to partner with people just like themselves but not always. Leonard is just using different criteria than his cohort. No intellectual chauvinism for him. And for his own reasons that we can only guess at. He is forming a relationship with someone not like him, across an intellectual line, not a religious, race or nationality one. Additionally he likes Penny and she likes him - the duration of their association proves this. Counts even more than lust IMHO.

 

I'd say he understands her intelligence. Happy to see cases where he has been casually disrespectful. When they fought in the pub his feelings were hurt and he was using all the artillery he could muster so they went out of bounds  - but made amends.

 

Sheldon is the opposite case - he is remaining tightly constrained is his selections - but he does like Amy and is apparently getting a handle on the lust thing.

 

 

The intellectual line here can be as important as race or religion.  In fact, it is odd that something he prizes so heavily is not a factor in mate selection especially since his other significant relations had that component.  This is the person he will eventually spend the majority of his life discussing various topics.  Unless he finds her to be a vacation for his brain after using it all day (which would be sad) I don't get it.  I would never have been able to handle an average intelligence for a mate.  It was a huge factor for me to find someone who could stimulate me mentally.  There have been times I have been trapped in dull conversation full of excruciating details that I have felt panicked as if I was trapped in a small space.

 

When he defied her wishes and read her term paper then re-wrote it he was disrepecting her intelligence.

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I respect that that is your view. As you say, Leonard offers no explanation other than what we are able to observe and interpret through our own metaphorical lenses. I am not he and I'm only guessing, as are you.

Also I think there is some science that says we do not consciously decide, we rationalise after the decision. Amy and Ms Bialik would have informed views on that.

In the context of the show it is his choice and I enjoy the portrayal of the consequences of his decision, rational or otherwise. It must give you some pleasure too, else we'd not be here.

Everyone's a winner, especially Leonard.

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So a stay at home mother deserves ridicule and mocking? If she chooses it, what is the problem? I could give you plenty of examples of good mothers, who chose to stay at home at certain points while raising children, but you've made it clear that you don't like facts from experience.

 

Well she is not a good cook or a good housekeeper so the Peggy Bundy reference is apt.  You don't think she is worthy of being introduced as an aspiring actress suggests that maybe even you don't believe it (even with your facts from experiences) so you reduced her to something more believable.    And yes, in this case it is a reduction in status because it is not really a choice if you do not have better options.  It is like she didn't choose to be a waitress she just had no other options.

 

If you want a fact from experience my own mother stayed at home and it was a good thing because her abilities in the workforce were never much more than retail and babysitting.

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I respect that that is your view. As you say, Leonard offers no explanation other than what we are able to observe and interpret through our own metaphorical lenses. I am not he and I'm only guessing, as are you.

Also I think there is some science that says we do not consciously decide, we rationalise after the decision. Amy and Ms Bialik would have informed views on that.

In the context of the show it is his choice and I enjoy the portrayal of the consequences of his decision, rational or otherwise. It must give you some pleasure too, else we'd not be here.

Everyone's a winner, especially Leonard.

 

 

There may be a science for some people like Leonard who feels his options are limited but I had a pretty detailed checklist of what I was looking for in a woman.  I have no idea how many girls I dated before I found my wife.  The one time I went off script came out of nowhere and I really loved her.  This is where the science might have worked but instead of settling and rationalizing I walked away from it because I knew she was not the best thing for me and my future.  

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So a stay at home mother deserves ridicule and mocking? If she chooses it, what is the problem? I could give you plenty of examples of good mothers, who chose to stay at home at certain points while raising children, but you've made it clear that you don't like facts from experience.

 

Women who choose to do it in place of a career have my utmost respect.Women who do it because they are good for nothing otherwise well...

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Well she is not a good cook or a good housekeeper so the Peggy Bundy reference is apt.

Actually, not necessarily. The first dinner my wife made, for me, I had to fix due to problems based on her inexperience, but now, I can't cook anywhere near as well as she does, she learned, I was a complete slob when I was living alone. After our kids were born, I became a neat freak, because of the kids. I learned.

You don't think she is worthy of being introduced as an aspiring actress suggests that maybe even you don't believe it (even with your facts from experiences) so you reduced her to something more believable.

In this case, I was thinking of Leonard's comment in the Pilot. If I would have known how jumpy that statement was going to make you, I wouldn't have edited the "smart and beautiful" out, to make it obvious I was referring to Leonard's statement. And, it doesn't mean that is the only thing I could write. I can provide you with a whole list of ways Penny could be introduced, if you wish.

And yes, in this case it is a reduction in status because it is not really a choice if you do not have better options.

Sure she has a choice, she could have continued working after the kids are born. You are again making it sound as someone who stays at home with their kids as somehow beneath someone else who is working.

It is like she didn't choose to be a waitress she just had no other options.

As I mentioned before, a waitress(or waiter) is a very good job to have if you're an aspiring actor, due to the flexibility of hours being very convenient for auditions. Doesn't mean she had no other options. And, what exactly is your problem with a waitress or waiter?

 

If you want a fact from experience my own mother stayed at home and it was a good thing because her abilities in the workforce were never much more than retail and babysitting.

My mother was also a stay at home mother (as is my wife). My mother did ironing for friends to make some extra money, but she was a secretary prior to having children. My wife was doing administrative work for a large company when we had our first child. She was quite happy to be home with our kids (they're both grown). I just didn't see why it was necessary to be so demeaning to the idea of a mother staying at home, raising the kids.

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Women who choose to do it in place of a career have my utmost respect.Women who do it because they are good for nothing otherwise well...

It's good to know you think that only certain kinds of women, who raise children, are worthy of your respect. Me, stay at home moms, single woment, single dads, who are working at raising kids is worthy of respect. I'd rather have a woman who, as you say, can't do anything else, but is dedicated to raising kids, rather than someone who makes the choice not to work, but raises the kids in a indifferent manner.

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Way to spin it. What will Penny choose over becoming a housewife, A fulfilling and demanding career waitressing?

 

She is a good for nothing,a grown woman almost in her 30's.I wonder if she will be any good with kids either,can't cook or clean.So would not even be a good home maker.

 

I guess Leonard will have to bring home the bacon and cook and clean as well.

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@ Tensor

 

My mother was subpar in the kitchen my entire childhood and I know plenty of people who are slobs their entire lives.  You forget this is a comedy and her being a bad cook and bad housekeeper is part of the humor.

 

You could have, but you didn't.

 

Combing the next two, Penny has a problem with it.  She even says she is not good at it.  I don't know many people who enjoy doing things they are not good at. 

 

I am not demeaning it.  I am saying what you suggested.  She doesn't have a successful career or even a hint of one to walk away from.  Being a homemaker at this point is probably the best she could do, well, if she learns to cook and clean so technically speaking she is unqualified even for that.

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Way to spin it. What will Penny choose over becoming a housewife, A fulfilling and demanding career waitressing?

 

She is a good for nothing,a grown woman almost in her 30's.I wonder if she will be any good with kids either,can't cook or clean.So would not even be a good home maker.

 

I guess Leonard will have to bring home the bacon and cook and clean as well.

 

They will work it out later, but please note they do have a head start as they have known each other for 6 years - far fewer surprises and very much an informed adult choice. I cant see how they can turn that ship around without a wreck.

 

Leonard is taking a punt (a bet) similarly to any one else.  And they will be able to engage a cleaner if it becomes a priority. He is not without resources. But all these things are his to consider and he has chosen.  IRL his recourse will be the divorce courts if he has taken the wrong bet at the end.

 

It looks to me like the characters and creatives are deeply committed to this course so you are going to either be unhappy for a long time or Lorre pulls something weird out of his ars* to make me cry instead.

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Way to spin it.

Spin it? Then by all means, explain how else your statement:

Women who choose to do it in place of a career have my utmost respect.Women who do it because they are good for nothing otherwise well...

can be interpreted. It appears that you respect those that raise children in place of a career, otherwise, you don't respect those who are raising children.

What will Penny choose over becoming a housewife, A fulfilling and demanding career waitressing?

And if she does, the problem is....what?

 

She is a good for nothing,a grown woman almost in her 30's.

Who started back to school, supports herself, isn't involved in illegal drugs, isn't some sort of criminal. Yeah, the very definition of good for nothing.

I wonder if she will be any good with kids either,can't cook or clean.So would not even be a good home maker.

As I said, my wife couldn't cook and I was a slob, prior to our marriage. Now she's a great cook and I'm a neat freak.

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@ Tensor

 

My mother was subpar in the kitchen my entire childhood and I know plenty of people who are slobs their entire lives.  You forget this is a comedy and her being a bad cook and bad housekeeper is part of the humor.

Of course it is. Shots at her intelligence, housekeeping and cooking are there for the humor. And some of those lines and situations are throw aways, and not necessarily have anything to do with the actual character development. One example is Penny mentioning that Leonard "really tries" in bed, when she's given other examples of him being rather good. Mixed messages, that we are taking in two different ways. That's why we disagree.

 

You could have, but you didn't.

Which means what? I thought those who know the show would have gotten the "smart and beautiful" without a specific reference. Mea Culpa, I'll be more specific in the future.

 

Combing the next two, Penny has a problem with it.  She even says she is not good at it.  I don't know many people who enjoy doing things they are not good at.

But you evidently know some, from the way your worded it. So it's not impossible for someone to enjoy something they're not good at.

 

I am not demeaning it.

Your wording in the previous post suggested otherwise to me.

I am saying what you suggested.  She doesn't have a successful career or even a hint of one to walk away from.

I already pointed out in another thread, that it can take longer than six years to get a career going. But, here it is again.

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You guys are all entertaining going back and forth like this. It seems to me Leonard would want someone who is not his intellectual equal after seeing and hearing about his own family(esp. his mother). I'm not quite understanding why some seem to hate Penny so much but still watch the show. Every one of Kutra's posts seems to complain about her. She is one of the three main characters of the show so I'm guessing she's not going anywhere. I'd be interested to see how this discussion is going when the series finale finally happens. You guys to me seem to be like the announcer at halftime of a football game analyzing the first half. But like any football game it doesn't matter what the score is at halftime it matters what the score is at the end. And if I was a gambler I bet Penny will look a lot better by the end of the series than now.

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@ Tensor

 

I don't think you believe they will give her an acting career or you would not have made her a homemaker.  I think you believe that much like the cooking and cleaning that being a failed actress is part of the humor.  They may give her something in the series finale but that will be nothing more than window dressing.

 

No I don't know some people who are happy at jobs they are no good at.  I worded it that way for effect but I appreciate a literal comeback.  Everyone I know in that situation is basically no happier than Al Bundy.

 

I am not demeaning homemakers.  End of conversation.  If you don't see what you did there I can't help you.

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You guys are all entertaining going back and forth like this. It seems to me Leonard would want someone who is not his intellectual equal after seeing and hearing about his own family(esp. his mother). I'm not quite understanding why some seem to hate Penny so much but still watch the show. Every one of Kutra's posts seems to complain about her. She is one of the three main characters of the show so I'm guessing she's not going anywhere. I'd be interested to see how this discussion is going when the series finale finally happens. You guys to me seem to be like the announcer at halftime of a football game analyzing the first half. But like any football game it doesn't matter what the score is at halftime it matters what the score is at the end. And if I was a gambler I bet Penny will look a lot better by the end of the series than now.

 

He has had experience with intellectual equals that were not like his mother so I doubt he would be scared of further exploring them.

 

People are responding to what they see.  Yes they may fix her but they haven't yet.   If we don't discuss what we have seen so far there would be no reason to come here at all.

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I don't disagree in what your saying. More my point is why people don't have the same discussions about Sheldon? It seems to me the two that have the most faults are Penny and Sheldon. People don't respond to what they see with him. I guess I defend Penny because she seems to be the one picked on the most.

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I know at least one more benefit from relations with a girl like Penny. If she worked out her scares and calmed, she would be very kind and warm with Leonard, that's what she has shown in S1-2 and in other episodes as well. She is pretty, warm and she accepts Leonard as he is. Moreover, she loves scientists (but not science itself). And she is not with him for money. Isn't Penny a nice partner for Leonard? :) A good womam shouldn't necessarily understand your interests completely, especially if it is highly sophisticated science, but she must love you as a scientist. :)

The only problem up to now is her scares.

Also she is known to have some unexpected skills which however she did not develop and did not fully use.

Edited by Everyday
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