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vasu

My Thoughts On Some Of The Big Bang Episodes

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In this thread I'm going to post my opinions on some of the episodes. One episode per post ( a post which is not a reply to my posts :p). I tried posting on those episode threads but they were not getting any attention , so I thought of making a new thread ;)
 
The first one that comes to my mind is The Agreement Dissection 
 
I found this episode as fascinating as Sheldon found Amy's kiss
 
It was really an excellent episode until the last moments....  Priya was set up as likable,sweet person in the opening scenes... as she was happy with Sheldon peeing...she helps her boyfriend by disarming the Roommate agreement in a friendly way....an act which even Penny rarely does.....as the writers clearly love to shower her sympathy and affection on Sheldon(undeserving at times) but rarely on Leonard
 
Ok , so all that leads to Sheldon going to girls night... Sheldon in new situations is always a great fodder for comedy as he is the one who is reacting to others actions.... when others react to Sheldon's actions he comes across as annoying and the jokes are always the same(that he is crazy)......but here he is much more funnier and not even a little bit annoying
 
and the Amy Sheldon stuff in her apartment was pretty good... his reaction to her kiss... showing us little hints of where this relationship would go.... 
 
Now comes the ending scene... where Sheldon delivers the final blow by telling Priya that she may have studied at Cambridge but he studied at Starfleet Academy....
 
The audience cheer as he marches off to his room feeling triumphant... So what exactly is wrong with this??? 
Sheldon is'nt the hero of this story....he is the selfish guy who would rather ruin someone else's (in this case his best friend's) relationship rather than live with a few inconveniences.....he clearly admits to Leonard that  his own happiness is more than important than anything else........he essentially tries to ruin Leonard's relationship so he could eat and pee what and when he likes with a MEAN, COWARDLY , SELFISH, CRUEL ACT......Basically it was the act of a BAD GUY
And in the final scene where Sheldon skypes and makes up with Amy , he acts as if Leonard's relationship issues are some kind of nuisance which he has been enduring
 
It such a despicable act ,that I thought that we were surely going to get a follow up episode where Sheldon would be shown how wrong he was...but we get none as always 
 
To summarize , the final scene was despicable and very ruthless on Leonard . I could see not difference in Sheldon's and Priya's attitude towards Leonard..both were using him in their own way
 
The tone of this was so wrong....Leonard is supposed to be the suffering hero in this story....just try to imagine if this episode focused on Leonard and not Sheldon , where he , Priya along with Howard and Raj go to a club or something and spend a happy night together and then had to wake up to Sheldon's evil scheme.....then it would not have been about the academy or anything...it would have been Priya revealing what actually she thinks of their relationship
 
But the writers were so focused on having Sheldon win the battle over Priya that they forgot what effect would it have on Leonard.......the writers betrayed the morality of the characters
 
I don't know if the writers were trying to show the incompatability of Leonard and Priya's relationship with this episode or not.....or if they were trying to tell the audience to hate Priya some more or not........but they clearly were able to reveal a fatal  flaw in the show... 
 
And before some of you point out that the guys have been mean to each other in the past....I agree and the arctic might be the go to example....but the difference is we were shown Sheldon suffering ,Sheldon being comforted,  the guys apologizing to Sheldon and bringing him back.....but all we get in this episode is Sheldon feeling triumphant...
 
Let me know your opinions on my opinions :)
 
 
 
 
Edited by vasu
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I like your idea and the method you have chosen to present your thoughts. This is much better than having to root through the posts of days gone by.

 

Your observations are well stated and on point. Sheldon in this episode comes across as selfish, self-centered and dismissive of the cares and needs of others. Essentially he is presented as… Sheldon.

 

Any time we see Sheldon acting differently it is an anomaly. The traits demonstrated in this episode are consistent with Sheldon as we have come to know him. Sheldon has admitted his ‘agreements’ (roommate and relationship) are written to benefit nobody but himself. Did he come across as a bully? Absolutely, without a doubt he did. Was Leonard left, once again, in a terrible spot? He certainly was. His behavior at the beginning proved Sheldon has him trained as well as one of Pavlov’s dogs. Priya revealed that Leonard was her forbidden piece of white chocolate that mummy and daddy could not know about.

 

Other than depicting Sheldon at his (normal) worst I think the writer’s intent was to open that crack in the Leonard / Priya relationship. To show that she was not committed enough to him to acknowledge the relationship to her parents. Sheldon looked bad but Priya was outed and I think this was really the goal of the writers.

 

It’s an enjoyable episode though it wouldn’t make my list of favorites. I actually enjoyed the rest of the story more than the Sheldon-Priya conflict.

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I like your idea and the method you have chosen to present your thoughts. This is much better than having to root through the posts of days gone by.

 

Your observations are well stated and on point. Sheldon in this episode comes across as selfish, self-centered and dismissive of the cares and needs of others. Essentially he is presented as… Sheldon.

 

Any time we see Sheldon acting differently it is an anomaly. The traits demonstrated in this episode are consistent with Sheldon as we have come to know him. Sheldon has admitted his ‘agreements’ (roommate and relationship) are written to benefit nobody but himself. Did he come across as a bully? Absolutely, without a doubt he did. Was Leonard left, once again, in a terrible spot? He certainly was. His behavior at the beginning proved Sheldon has him trained as well as one of Pavlov’s dogs. Priya revealed that Leonard was her forbidden piece of white chocolate that mummy and daddy could not know about.

 

Other than depicting Sheldon at his (normal) worst I think the writer’s intent was to open that crack in the Leonard / Priya relationship. To show that she was not committed enough to him to acknowledge the relationship to her parents. Sheldon looked bad but Priya was outed and I think this was really the goal of the writers.

 

It’s an enjoyable episode though it wouldn’t make my list of favorites. I actually enjoyed the rest of the story more than the Sheldon-Priya conflict.

 

Thanks HeWolf :)

 

Yes , Sheldon was portrayed as Sheldon or rather a much more sophisticated version of Sheldon , it's ok to portray him as selfish , ego-centric , but to portray him as utterly mean was just terrible.... and the most important thing.. as I pointed out... Sheldon was never made to know how wrong what he did was...cause he is one of the characters that we should root for......but rather we were asked to cheer for him for his act...

 

I too thought that the writers intent might be to show to the cracks in Leonard-Priya relationship...but I was far more attracted to the Leonard-Sheldon friendship aspect of this episode...

 

And they had done a similar plot in the zazzy cat episode.... Leonard has issues with Amy and asks Sheldon to have their meeting some where else....later Sheldon and Amy break-up which Leonard had nothing to do with.....but after seeing Sheldon suffering Leonard tries to help him....but when he fails to do...he calls Sheldon's mother and she makes up Sheldon and Amy..and Leonard clearly is happy about all this....a good story a sweet story.... and Sheldon clearly deserved the sympathy and help he got in the episode....but Leonard does'nt even get an ounce of sympathy in the agreement episode...

 

So I don't understand how the same writers who make the characters come across as likable in episodes with similar plot screw-up(screw-up big time in this one) in others

Edited by vasu

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

I don't think it is a matter of "what did Sheldon do" as much as it is a matter of "who did he do it to" that caused the majority of the audience to react that way to his actions.

What he did was wrong, selfish and manipulative, is true, but he did it to Priya, a character that, in the previous episodes had gathered a lot of people against her, mainly by her request to Leonard that he doesn't hang out with Penny anymore, causing a division on the group, as well as the audience's sympathy for Penny who was seen crying over Leonard being with Priya also a couple of episodes earlier. Most of the audience I think took it as karma against her, and a sign that her relatonship with Leonard wasn't in such a good place, which caused relief on a lot of fans. That's how I saw it at the time.

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I don't think it is a matter of "what did Sheldon do" as much as it is a matter of "who did he do it to" that caused the majority of the audience to react that way to his actions.

What he did was wrong, selfish and manipulative, is true, but he did it to Priya, a character that, in the previous episodes had gathered a lot of people against her, mainly by her request to Leonard that he doesn't hang out with Penny anymore, causing a division on the group, as well as the audience's sympathy for Penny who was seen crying over Leonard being with Priya also a couple of episodes earlier. Most of the audience I think took it as karma against her, and a sign that her relatonship with Leonard wasn't in such a good place, which caused relief on a lot of fans. That's how I saw it at the time.

 

I agree.

I think that it's a sort of "homeostasis" issue.

Priya was always something of a user toward Leonard.  The first time we see her, she flat out tells Leonard that she's just using him for a good time whenever she happens to be in town.

Then when she comes back for a longer period, she's happy to date him, try to change him completely, but won't tell her parents they're dating.  And when she's about to go back to India, she doesn't even tell him.  And then when she's there, she ends up sleeping with her ex-boyfriend.

 

I think Sheldon ultimately did Leonard a favor with Priya by revealing her true priorities.

 

Anyway, while he may have found her Kryptonite and exploited it, it was partly a sort of territorial thing--she was meddling in his home and he found a way to put a stop to it.

I think that the audience appreciated it because it was funny and typical of Sheldon--to use his geeky background to triumph over his adversary, in this case, Priya.

 

Although Leonard does usually get the short end of the stick when it comes to the Roommate Agreement, he's the one who signed it and puts up with Sheldon's quirks.  If it were really so horrible, Leonard could always find his own place. If Penny can afford a one-bedroom in that building, surely Leonard could.

 

But ultimately it's a combination of comeuppance and homeostasis and the fact that it's sitcom with a lot of throw-away moments.

 

And maybe one could see this moment as payback for the Electric Can Opener episode. :p

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First of all Thank you Sursonica and Phantagree for your opinions :)

 

Priya was always something of a user toward Leonard.  The first time we see her, she flat out tells Leonard that she's just using him for a good time whenever she happens to be in town.

Then when she comes back for a longer period, she's happy to date him, try to change him completely, but won't tell her parents they're dating.  And when she's about to go back to India, she doesn't even tell him.  And then when she's there, she ends up sleeping with her ex-boyfriend.

 

 most of the stuff you mentioned happened after this episode......I never said Priya was good person...but I thought she was likable in the opening scenes cause she was just trying to help her boyfriend live a better life

 

I think Sheldon ultimately did Leonard a favor with Priya by revealing her true priorities.

 

 Sheldon at that point of time did not know what Priya's intentions were..or how their relationship was going on..or how Leonard felt about Priya.....but he knew that there was a weak point which he could exploit to his advantage....he does no favor to Leonard here

 

Anyway, while he may have found her Kryptonite and exploited it, it was partly a sort of territorial thing--she was meddling in his home and he found a way to put a stop to it.

I think that the audience appreciated it because it was funny and typical of Sheldon--to use his geeky background to triumph over his adversary, in this case, Priya.

 

He did not use his geeky background to triumph his adversary , he blackmailed Leonard.... this is a coward's move

And as far as meddling is concerned Sheldon, if I remember correctly in some previous episode goes to Raj's(Priya's) house and makes some comments about her...
 
 
Although Leonard does usually get the short end of the stick when it comes to the Roommate Agreement, he's the one who signed it and puts up with Sheldon's quirks.  If it were really so horrible, Leonard could always find his own place. If Penny can afford a one-bedroom in that building, surely Leonard could.

 

 Priya actually found a flaw in the Roommate Agreement which Leonard naturally enjoyed as he always gets the short end of the stick when it comes to that Agreement.And Sheldon clearly knew he was defeated in the opening scene and he clearly agrees in the final scene that the RA was flawed and that is the reason he wanted Leonard to sign the new RA

 

Yes Leonard signed it ..but Sheldon created it, so he should be one who should follow it more than Leonard

 

But ultimately it's a combination of comeuppance and homeostasis and the fact that it's sitcom with a lot of throw-away moments.

 

A throw-away moment---- well , its hard to argue if this is the case   :p

 

And maybe one could see this moment as payback for the Electric Can Opener episode. :p

 

Well, if this case I could also think Leonard ultimately does Sheldon a favor cause at-least Sheldon was happy for some time , other wise he would have been moping the entire time in the arctic and after he comes home.. and who knows he might have killed himself...but now instead as the blame is on the guys..so Sheldon feels ok ;)
 
Anyway , I think  I posted my opinions on the difference  between that episode and this episode in my earlier post :)
Edited by vasu

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If Priya and Leonard's relationship wasn't fundamentally flawed Sheldon wouldn't have been able to blackmail him. Pryia was never serious about the relationship. Leonard hints about moving to India and she can't even tell her family. Rather than letting him know she isn't serious, she leads him on by acting jealous and possessive. Sheldon was looking out for himself but did Leonard a favor by revealing how Pryia saw their relationship: convenient. Later, she cheats on him. She's the villain and I've got zero sympathy for her. The actress did a great job.

I love this episode. It's one of the best of the entire series.

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i swear ive heard vasus issues with TAD 10,000 times

More like 1000000ie5486573018758-28yphg;bvsdjkbgsj times. (keyboard smashing because I am exaggerating). Not that there's anything wrong with expressing your opinions...

 

What I can say in this episode is that Sheldon asked Amy for advice while she was drunk and even asked for "smart Amy". She was the one who convinced him to play dirty. And then, Sheldon, being the kind who mostly took Amy's advice (like when she told him to take acting lessons thus the Penny/Sheldon moment of his breakdown), did it. Then, off you go with Sheldon showing the flaw to Leonard and Priya's relationship, cracking it like a nut.

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That's naturally what Sheldon is like anyway. I notice it every single episode, and I'm glad that he blackmailed them, as it was a clever thing to do, especially with the whole countdown thing. Sheldon is clever, ergo it fits his character perfectly.

 

As I said, it's no different from any other episode. I've just watched The 43 Peculiarity, and as he said, he didn't even notice Leonard was in the room. He also said that he has to 'act as if he cares about other people'. That's been Sheldon since the beginning.

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He did use his geeky background--his Star Trek knowledge--to come up with how to perform the blackmail.  He drew on some episode of ST where Kirk threatened to blow up the ship in order to force someone to do what he needed them to do.

 

Instead of blowing up the apartment (with all his "cool stuff" in it), he found something that would be more meaningful and more valuable--Priya's denial of her relationship with Leonard.  Her Kryptonite.

 

In much the same way, he found the flaw in Leonard's relationship with Leslie Winkle--he pointed out the stringy/loopy conflict that she cared about more than she cared about Leonard.

While such things may have been momentarily painful for Leonard, in the end he was better off.

 

And so was Sheldon. :p

Edited by phantagrae
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Thank you bigbangsheldon and jeanalice for keeping a track of the count of my posts :) ... never thought I would have that much following :p

 

Ok , here's my thoughts on another episode -- The Friendship Contraction

 

I thought the lightstaber part , the Penny-Leonard scene and the B-Plot about "fruit loops" were good...and Penny saying to Sheldon "that's not what girlfriends are for" was pure genuis :)

 

 

But I don't know why the writers do episodes like this and show no progress in characters...cause at the end of the episode it did not look like Sheldon and Leonard are friends...in fact they looked like a bully and a wimp
 
I had two main problems with this episode
  
- Neither Sheldon nor Leonard change . We are never given proper information about why Sheldon cannot take care of himself . So it always looks like he is a man-child who needs someone to chauffeur him around . This would be better to see if we get to Sheldon admitting some of his fears but we get none. 
 
When Penny goes awwwww and tries to push Leonard to help Sheldon , it feels undeserved ,cause Sheldon constantly bullies Leonard,and Leonard is never shown any kind of thankfulness. And it is also clear that if someone else had taken the chauffeur duty (Stuart) Sheldon would not have even considered going back to  Leonard as he would have found another weak willed friend to chauffeur him around.. It would have been so nice if Sheldon had shown some genuine affection for Leonard but we get none... And Penny going awwwww also reflects badly on her because in the initial scenes she clearly did not want to chauffeur Sheldon around..so she will not do it ...but Leonard has to do it...If there was atleast some indication that Sheldon is grateful to Leonard then I would not have minded this so much but we get none...
 
- Another problem - The writers clearly feel that Sheldon being callous leads to more comedy and he is a better character like that. And he really is. But if this is the case the sympathy should not be with Sheldon......and Leonard reflexively , is never given a backbone....he clearly should not have settled for "Leonard's day" if all he was being given was a crummy card......it makes Leonard look like a fool
Edited by vasu

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Leonard gets shafted and Sheldon is treated like a god. What else is new?

 

Yeah , I guess I should not have presented a similar issue again. I'll try to mix them up from next time (if there is any :p

Anyway thanks for your comments :)

 

I will try a different theme this time : The Isolation Permutation

 

I thought this was a solid attempt to present Amy a more sympathetic character. They show the vulnerable aspect of Amy which added an extra layer to her character 

 

- This episode also showed an important contrast between Sheldon and Amy . Amy is desperate to be loved and accepted . Sheldon feels his isolation is superiority , where as Amy knows the effects of loneliness

- The scenes with Sheldon and Amy and Sheldon and the guys in the college were good...the rest was'nt a laugh riot...but it was ok..some giggles here and there..

 

Now the girls plot

 - Initially Penny\Bernadette go to shopping without Amy.

- Amy gets to know this gets upset and cries about it.Her list of rejections and general wallowing easily draw sympathy to her character ..... But Penny and Bernadette never looked like they were being unkind to Amy....so none of those three looked bad....

- In fact Penny and Bernadette's tolerance of Amy's blunt eagerness actually reflects pretty good on them

- Now in the ending scene of the episode.......Amy is rude and pushy and makes the shopping more about herself rather than the bride.......What the underlying message of this episode looks like is Amy drives her friends away...........tt was not quite clearly stated why she was rejected by those cool kids... because she was different... or because of her pushiness and her clingy enthusiasm...

 

What I thought would have been a better ending is Amy trying to curb her natural instincts , every a little bit would have been enough(which I thought would have been much more funnier also)......  shows the audience that she is willing to change in-order to be accepted and keeping their sympathy with her......but instead what we were shown actually emphasized why initially Penny and Bernadette left Amy and went to clothes shopping....which kind of spoils the ending because it looks like we should feel sorry for Penny and Bernadette more...

 

As always , Let me know your opinions :)

 
Edited by vasu

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Amy's isolation is both a product and the cause of her social awkwardness, which is not unlike that of the guys, though along slightly different lines.

Because she didn't have any friends (perhaps initially due to her intelligence and awkwardness and peculiar attitudes) , she became overly eager to make friends, so she is overly enthusiastic about everything and is a sort of worshipper of Penny, who is sort of the epitome of the beautiful, popular girl that Amy could never be friends with, let alone be like. Because Penny is kind and accepting of her, Amy sees her as the most perfect person and friend.

Just as the gang puts up with Sheldon's inappropriate discussion of bowel movements or colitis or uncomfortable relationship issues, Penny and Bernie put up with Amy's over-the-top worship if Penny.

The characters are never going to change radically because of the events of one episode because of the nature of the show.

They may grow and change overture course of a season or two, but there aren't going to be any great "The Moral of this Story Is..." moments at the end of an episode or scene.

I think it's funny that some people lament any change or growth in the characters and here we have a complaint that the characters don't grow or change or "learn" anything...

It's the nature of the sitcom and most series TV that the characters stay pretty much the way they are conceived at the outset so that the premise can hold as long as possible.

That's not to say that they can't change, because they do have to have some forward movement to keep the show from stagnating, but you'll never have instant changes just because of one scene unless it's intended to be something truly significant, like Penny finally saying the ILY. And even in that moment, the change has been very subtle.

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@phantagree : Thanks for you comments :)

 

I did'nt mean some radical changes in her character....just a small hint(that's why I said even a little bit in my previous post) that she is willing to change in order to be accepted would have been much better....but just underlining the fact why Penny and Bernie did not take her in the first place at the end of the episode was pretty bad.

 

Sheldon hugged Penny....but later he just did'nt go hugging everyone...he remained the same afterwards...it does not even have to this big

for example...Sheldon sometimes says "I love you" to Leonard...but later he goes on his old condescending self.....so him saying "I love you" does not mean that the character has changed or anything...

 

My point is for running gags these jokes are fine, but when they specifically do an episode like Isolation Permutation or Friendship contraction , I think it is important to end those on a good note....

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@phantagree : Thanks for you comments :)

 

I did'nt mean some radical changes in her character....just a small hint(that's why I said even a little bit in my previous post) that she is willing to change in order to be accepted would have been much better....but just underlining the fact why Penny and Bernie did not take her in the first place at the end of the episode was pretty bad.

 

Sheldon hugged Penny....but later he just did'nt go hugging everyone...he remained the same afterwards...it does not even have to this big

for example...Sheldon sometimes says "I love you" to Leonard...but later he goes on his old condescending self.....so him saying "I love you" does not mean that the character has changed or anything...

 

My point is for running gags these jokes are fine, but when they specifically do an episode like Isolation Permutation or Friendship contraction , I think it is important to end those on a good note....

 

But if the point is not to end them on a good note but simply to show that in some ways, some things never change, then why should they have ended differently.

 

Amy is going to be who she is going to be, and one episode doesn't mean she is suddenly going to be enlightened about her own flaws.  I don't think that's necessarily good writing, especially for a show where the premise must be extended indefinitely.

 

It reminds me of an old western I used to watch as a kid.  Part of the issue on the show was a sort of generation-gap thing between the patriarch and his young-ish son.  The father considered his son kind of soft, kind of a mama's boy, maybe not tough enough for the life on a ranch, etc.  The son was "sensitive" and moody and couldn't seem to be able to please his father.

In the pilot episode, the boy's mother is killed and the father ends up marrying the daughter of another rancher in order to cement a mutual protection agreement.  This happens within a matter of days of the mother's death--so that adds another layer of conflict in the family.

Anyway, at the end of the pilot episode, the boy is injured and the father shows that he really loves his son, the new wife/step-mother seems to find her place in the family and everyone seems happy.

 

The only problem is that the conflicts between father and son, husband and new "political arrangement" wife, son and new step-mother are a big part of what the show is supposed to revolve around, so in the second episode, we're back to all kinds of rifts and misunderstandings.  Now, those misunderstandings and conflicts made for really interesting stories, but it was a little silly to have them seemingly resolve the issues and then have to pretend they hadn't been resolved.

 

This is the way I see the episodes you've mentioned.

If a character "learns" something and changes their ways forever, then it's too much resolution too soon.  Sheldon may grow in some ways, but in many ways he's the same guy he's always been and some things about him will likely never change, including his behavior toward Leonard as his roommate.

 

Sheldon's "I love you" at the restaurant after he'd accidentally swallowed some tequila is a great example--he was presumably a little drunk, makes his little confession, but it's one of Sheldon's "in vino veritas" moments and not something he's apt to admit when he's sober.  It's not that he doesn't love Leonard as a friend, and I think that if you really peeled back Sheldon's layers, he does have a strong need and love for Leonard that he just doesn't know how to express or can't bring himself to admit (because of his enormous ego that demands that he insist that he is emotionally self-reliant.)

 

But if Sheldon were to openly admit that he loved Leonard as his friend and suddenly abolished the roommate agreement and got all palsy and affectionate with Leonard, it would change one of the basic premises of the show and that's the nature of Sheldon and his need to control his environment, hence the absurd extremes of the RA.  To change that would be too much change.

 

Similarly with Amy, if she were to suddenly become self-aware enough to try to modify her over-the-top behavior toward Penny or toward the wedding, etc., it would be too much of a change of her character and would eliminate her "Amy-ness" for any conflict in future episodes.

 

I don't think that any of the episodes demand positive change or alteration of character or any kind of end-of-story resolution since the big-picture story is ongoing.  And that's also just not the way TV writing works.

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Sheldon's "I love you" at the restaurant after he'd accidentally swallowed some tequila is a great example--he was presumably a little drunk, makes his little confession, but it's one of Sheldon's "in vino veritas" moments and not something he's apt to admit when he's sober.  It's not that he doesn't love Leonard as a friend, and I think that if you really peeled back Sheldon's layers, he does have a strong need and love for Leonard that he just doesn't know how to express or can't bring himself to admit (because of his enormous ego that demands that he insist that he is emotionally self-reliant.)

 

Small point about a post I otherwise completely agree with. Sheldon did say 'I platonically love you, man' to Leonard in Speckerman Recurrence, and he was sober when he said it. He's getting gradually a little more comfortable with using the word 'love'. ;) This doesn't take away from any of your arguments, but just thought I'd point it out.

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Also in the ep where leopard was trying to tell sheldon bout stuart asking amy out and sheldons diversionional speech, sheldon said lots of people love you which by that I took to include himself

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@phatagree : you don't seem to understand what I was trying to say...I never asked them to show that Amy has changed completely...it they had shown that Amy was atleast trying would have been enough...I mentioned this in the my first post about that episode....
and again as I mentioned Sheldon hugging Penny or Sheldon asking her not to hurt Leonard did not change his character...
he still is Sheldon ..... what you are saying looks like is after Sheldon asks Penny not to hurt Leonard it would not be possible to have Sheldon not caring about Leonard anymore....well , I think the most of the episodes we got after that in this season are a clear example of the opposite.......
 
Ok , Here's another episode   : The Desperation Emanation
 
A story about Leonard's loneliness was a good idea..... his pact with Howard was good continuity.......his decision to still stick with that girl even after finding out that she was horrible was probably realistic (but still very very very pathetic) given the initial pointing out by the others how lonely he was.... 
Joy has to be worst character ever to appear on this show.....dull,gross and boring
 
- But the worst part has to be Raj claiming that he was dating a deaf girl. Raj dating a girl should have been a huge news on the show....so this felt implausible...
- Then we have Sheldon who acts with no logic in his story.....he freaks out when Amy asks him to meet her mother which seemed out of character....one would assume he would ask her what was the purpose of the meeting avoiding any kind of confusion....not only he jumped to wrong conclusions but foolishly tries to hide from her which made no sense at all.....
Edited by vasu

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What I'm saying is that Amy would not show any more self-awareness about her flaws because that isn't the point of the episode and Penny and Bernie never really tell her what the real problem is--it would have been pretty hurtful if they had tried to explain to Amy that she's pushy and over the top or whatever else they might have said.

 

They apologized but they didn't tell her that it was her fault or her flaws that made them avoid her.

 

So, she didn't really know that it was her own over-the-top, overly-enthusiastic and somewhat inappropriate behavior that was at issue.  Therefore she could not have known that she had to behave any differently.

 

I think that her growth--over a longer period of time--has been a natural sort of result of hanging out with Penny and Bernie and kind of learning by association, not as a result of some kind of sudden self-awareness or whatever.  To me that makes more sense, especially in this kind of show, than to have her suddenly changing or being more circumspect just because of one incident.

 

The show is not designed to show such sudden change in the nature of the characters.  Any growth that happens is generally spread over a longer period as the characters slowly evolve through their long-term influence over each other.

 

I agree that Raj's declaration of having a deaf girlfriend was incongruous.  Apparently they revisted the idea of him dating a deaf girl in S5 with The Wiggly Finger Catalyst and it was indeed kind of a big deal.  Such a big deal has been made of Raj not having a girlfriend that for him to suddenly mention one--and one that Leonard didn't know about--was pretty out of the blue and only thrown in there to underscore Leonard's aloneness.

 

I don't really have a problem with Sheldon's panic at meeting Amy's mother.  The prospect obviously set off alarm bells in his head, such that he didn't want to ask Amy what it meant, but wanted the "safer" option of asking Leonard what it meant.  I think that one could argue that he might have some instinctive reaction to being asked to take his fledgling, odd friendship with Amy into a wider circle to somehow include her mother.

But mostly it was just funnier for him to react the way he did--in a typical Sheldonion overreaction, which includes his ridiculous efforts to hide from her--again his typical mixture of genius and idiot.

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

My point is for running gags these jokes are fine, but when they specifically do an episode like Isolation Permutation or Friendship contraction , I think it is important to end those on a good note....

 

But that IMO wouldn't have been to "end the episode in a good note" and this applies both to Isolation Permutation in the case of Amy and The Friendship Contraction in the case of Sheldon.

Having change their ways wasn't the purpose or the objective of these episodes. These episodes WEREN'T about character growth.

They were, in a way, the opposite. To show us how, despite Amy's creepiness and Sheldon's selfishness, at the end of the day their friends really do love them the way they are, with all of their flaws included. That's what I got from those episodes, and that is much better to me, than having their friends only loving them "once they change their ways", since that is not true friendship.

 

Those episodes, to me were a sort of an answer to the questions "why do Penny & Bernadette put up with Amy?" and "why does Leonard put up with Sheldon?" and both were answered with a "because they love them, and that's all" as well as also gathering some sympathy towards the characters of Sheldon and Amy.

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@vasu

 

You are right. They don't have a 'moral of the story' type ending, typical of older American shows. It works because of the type of characters on BBT. If there was a lesson learned each time, they would soon end up with nothing to write about. TBBT doesn't make moral choices for it's audience and it gives us all something to debate about.

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Thanks Moonbase , phantagrea , sursonica for the comments ...this is turning out to be quite a bit of fun :)

 

@phantagree : You explained what happened in the show regarding Sheldon panicking after Amy asks him to meet his mother. Where I am coming from is before watching that episode if anyone had asked me what would be his reaction when Amy asks this , I would have said , he would ask why and clear any confusion if any....just like when Amy held his hand , she asked what was she trying to do...

 

@sursonica : As, I have been saying again and again... I just wanted to see a small hint of growth and appreciation in Amy and Sheldon respectively in those episodes.... 

And if we go by your logic , I think almost half of the episodes in this series tell us why rest of them put up with Sheldon and Amy.......and as far as sympathy is concerned.. I don't remember an episode where Leonard is shown sympathy because of the crazy things Sheldon does....Sheldon gets what ever he wants most of time(and in occasions like this no one gets the sympathy).....and the one time Sheldon does not get what he wants...the writers start pouring sympathy on him...see where I am coming from??

 

Well , lets check another episode out : The Benefactor Factor

 

First of all the guy who plays President Siebert is excellent... I wish he makes some more apperances.....

I really liked the details of this story...the guys work at the research university...so they had to be involved in the fundraising......Siebert is good enough to understand their discomfort but is also professional enough to insist they attend the fundraising.... he also says that Board of directors think that Sheldon is a genuis which explains nicely why he is still employed even thought he is very rude to everyone(I know obliviously of course :p).......see why I like logic in shows....is because that small detail which makes all the things like Sheldon asking Siebert to explain to the others that he came only for their money and not to shake their hands pretty believable....

 

Mrs.Latham interest in Leonard put him in a pretty tricky situation...which is very good writing... I loved Howard calling him lucky duck...and it also a gave a little bit more insight into his character than we usually get , him being flattered when Latham tells him he is handsome was charming....I also liked that Leonard was applauded by others for being pleasant and agreeable..where as Sheldon gets banned from the future events like this because of his rudeness....

 

But the story should have been built around Leonard's moral dilemma of whether to prostitute himself for funds or stick to his moral guns....if the episode would have been built around that we would have got much more insight in his character as well as Sheldon and Penny and much more humourously....but Sheldon pimping Leonard looked odd..he grew-up in a christian family..so him taking prostitution so easily was again odd......I get that Sheldon thinks sex is unhygenic , unnecessary but him offending both Leonard and Penny with prostitute jokes was pretty bad...it would have been better he had innocently questioned Leonard's feelings.....I can easily see Sheldon saying he understands the horror of having sex but still pursuing Leonard to do it because it was the right thing for his career......

But later Leonard sleeps with Latham because he does'nt want to turn free sex down and Penny laughs at it...great .....it does'nt get more pathetic than this....and it is hardly a good ending to the story...but hey atleast it ended right :p

Edited by vasu

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