Character Sheldon Cooper

[Lissie]

Does he ever mention his father? I read that Sheldon is supposed to have a 'superiority complex'. How can someone who is clearly superior, have a complex?

Hmmm, to be "superior"/ smartest is not easy.....

[phantagrae]

Does he ever mention his father? I read that Sheldon is supposed to have a 'superiority complex'. How can someone who is clearly superior, have a complex?

 

He's talked about his father a lot, and especially this season.

 

He's talked about how his father taught him about football (the ep with the kite fighting--S2, maybe?), talked about his parents' relationship (the one where L&P fight about Penny's musician friend--S3), talked about how his father taught him archery (Herb Garden--S4), talked about how his father said that women were nothing but "flippin' pains in the bottom" (I forget what season that was) and how his father said that women were like Egg Salad (this season.)

 

He seems to have learned a lot of things from his father about everything but science, some of which he seems to believe to some degree, some of which he took to heart (archery, perhaps) and some of which he seems bemused about.

 

Complicated.

[gaqo]

Oh yes I'd forgotten all those. Parents arguing, obviously had a traumatic effect(negative), father tries to make boy into man; football,archery,shooting(negative), misogynistic indoctrination(negative). Maybe Mary shot him. I don't think Sheldon learnt anything positive from his father, and that explains why they are all boy/men. With no real role models, men are growing up more slowly, having to create themselves. There's a great little speech about this in 'Fight Club', where 'Ed Norton' is in the bath, talking to his alter ego 'Brad Pitt'. Men with no real bearings, disillusioned by their father's generation.  

[phantagrae]

Oh yes I'd forgotten all those. Parents arguing, obviously had a traumatic effect(negative), father tries to make boy into man; football,archery,shooting(negative), misogynistic indoctrination(negative). Maybe Mary shot him. I don't think Sheldon learnt anything positive from his father, and that explains why they are all boy/men. With no real role models, men are growing up more slowly, having to create themselves. There's a great little speech about this in 'Fight Club', where 'Ed Norton' is in the bath, talking to his alter ego 'Brad Pitt'. Men with no real bearings, disillusioned by their father's generation.  

 

Sheldon doesn't seem to entirely reject the things his father taught him, even the misogynistic aspects.  And I'm sure he loved his father as well, even if he didn't agree with everything his father was trying to teach him.

Most children love their parents even if they reject a parent's teachings or attitudes.  Sheldon loves his mother, but rejects her religious beliefs, even though (or maybe especially because) he was brought up with those beliefs.  There's no real evidence to suggest that he completely rejected his father as a role model when he was a child.  As an adult he seems to both draw on and reject what his father taught him.

[sarah7]

I am not sure if I like when Sheldon comes very much with his childish moments like in some points in the last episode (6x22) or when he was in Howard&B  closet and he was requesting for being there little bit more....I feel this become a little exaggerated in some point, less convincing....I don´t know. Actually I liked this a lot in the past, in previous seasons, like when Penny took him to Disneyword (or Disneyland?) and some other situations. I KNOW to be childish is part of his personality and I love it but, in few lasts scenes/episodes, I don´t know, I felt this a little artificial! Sorry, it is difficult to explain myself, what I mean.... Can someone understand me? Does someone agree? or this is only my imagination...?

 

Totally agree with you Lissie.

I've been saying more or less the same in other threads (to the point I'm starting to sound like a broken record), as lately Sheldon's childish and rude behaviour comes across as forced and artificial to me. Not even Jim's brilliance can save him in those moments.

 

What puzzles me is the insistance some have in blaming the character's recent decrease in quality to his relationship with Amy, when I think it's precisely the moments the writers choose to play the "same ol' Sheldon" card when he becomes a caricature and irritates me the most. In contrast, some of his brightest (as a character and in the acting department) moments this season had been, IMO, those that had to do with their relationship (and I'm not saying this just as a shipper, I said some )

 

I think I read in another thread that it's a deliberated move in order to make him "less desirable", so everyone agree only someone like Amy would want to be with him. I'm sorry but that sounds ridiculous to me. It's not like Sheldon used to be an absolute stud that needed to be toned down. He had always been a quirky guy, but before I used to believe him and found him endearing even at his worst, now most of the times he just comes across as a jerkass, period. And I just don't understand how that could be directly related to his development as a boyfriend.

 

 As I also read somewhere a very good observation: in the last episode something sorely missed was a good farewell scene between him and Leonard, they are best friends and the two main characters of the show! The toast was not enough for me, because it's the same Sheldonesque routine we had seen played over and over again. Would it hurt too much to leave aside childish/obnoxious Sheldon for a minute and offer something just a bit different for a change?

 

I blame lazy writing and fear from the writers to lose the "winning formula" they had developed with him. I hope next season(s) they ease themselves a bit and understand they can keep the essence of Sheldon while improving him, making him an all-rounded character, instead of an unidimensional joke.

Edited May 23, 2013 by sarah7

[phantagrae]

I don't mind whineybabySheldon.  I think it's a fairly consistent part of his personality that has always been used throughout the series.  And he's always been rudely blunt and self-centered, and sometimes he realizes it and sometimes he doesn't.

 

I didn't really find anything unusual or shocking about him this season.  I liked his "five more minutes!" in the closet--he whined at Leonard about not wanting to quit, but otherwise he wasn't childish at any other point during that dinner party.  He was working in the closet because Howard and Bernie wanted him to do it, not because he fled in there of his own accord.

 

I don't think there's any ulterior motive or hidden agenda or even "lazy" writing.  I think that because Sheldon has been making some progress over the years, it's somewhat more obvious when he falls back into that mode.  But I think that it's always going to be a part of his personality and will continue to surface.

[Ar Diem]

It is definitely tired and lazy writing.  They need to be more comfortable being an emotionally responsible show and an ensemble show.  I absolutely abhor Sheldon when they have him trying to break up a touching scene.  He was completely unfunny in Closet during the letter scene and he was completely unfunny in the car scene in Bon Voyage.

 

It was also completely out of character for him.  His best friend in the world was leaving for 3 or 4 months.  His homeostasis was shattered.  He would have been freaking out not worrying about the white zone.  He would have had his own real moment with Leonard too.

 

But you don't have to look too hard at Sheldon when the whole Raj and Lucy experiment was so badly written.

 

Hopefully S7 will be better and have some fresh new approaches to these characters.

[gaqo]

 

 

Complicated.

Yes I suppose the child loves its parents, and can't understand why their parents don't seem to act in a loving way(arguing,misogyny), so the relatiopship is complicated, complex and confusing. The way this programme seems to alternate between honest moments(Leonard talking about 'hugging machine', and Howard talking about missing his father), and comedy, makes me think that the writers are using it as some sort of cathartic process. I hope they've recorded some of their team meetings. What they bring to the table; from having watched every comedy ever made, and their own personal experience, would be interesting to observe.

[Lissie]

It is definitely tired and lazy writing.  They need to be more comfortable being an emotionally responsible show and an ensemble show.  I absolutely abhor Sheldon when they have him trying to break up a touching scene.  He was completely unfunny in Closet during the letter scene and he was completely unfunny in the car scene in Bon Voyage.

 

It was also completely out of character for him.  His best friend in the world was leaving for 3 or 4 months.  His homeostasis was shattered.  He would have been freaking out not worrying about the white zone.  He would have had his own real moment with Leonard too.

 

But you don't have to look too hard at Sheldon when the whole Raj and Lucy experiment was so badly written.

 

Hopefully S7 will be better and have some fresh new approaches to these characters.

Well, I didn´t like very much that either... I suppose that in the letter scene they wanted to show us that Sheldon cannot understand at all the deep of the situation in that moment and he only wanted to win/to be the centre of the meeting without understanding very much what was happening...or if he understood then he didn´t care at all. 

Maybe the writers wanted to remember us in that moment that this is only a comedy and they broke the emotional situation with Sheldon´s jokes...

About the car scene, it is like he forgot Leonard was going out for about 4 months. I think they should had made that scene in another way, allowing Sheldon to have his own real moment with Leonard, as you said.

 

 I have to say: Sheldon is my favourite/loved character, but this season (6) I found myself thinking "hey, what is this?" sometimes Something that never happened before in the other seasons.

[phantagrae]

Yes I suppose the child loves its parents, and can't understand why their parents don't seem to act in a loving way(arguing,misogyny), so the relatiopship is complicated, complex and confusing. The way this programme seems to alternate between honest moments(Leonard talking about 'hugging machine', and Howard talking about missing his father), and comedy, makes me think that the writers are using it as some sort of cathartic process. I hope they've recorded some of their team meetings. What they bring to the table; from having watched every comedy ever made, and their own personal experience, would be interesting to observe.

 

I think that, as Molaro has said, at this point they feel that the audience understands these characters well enough that the show can afford to explore more of their personal issues, like Howard's father, like Sheldon and Leonard's relationship, like all of the couples.

But the show is still primarily a comedy and they're going to focus on the comedic timing of scenes and of the overall show.

 

Maybe they should have had more of a moment between Sheldon and Leonard, but I wonder if they were planting the seeds of what they may intend to do in the opening of S7.  Leonard called Sheldon on his fear of being alone (and Sheldon didn't entirely deny it) and then Leonard asked Penny to take care of Sheldon because, again, he felt Sheldon wouldn't like being alone for that whole time.

Though they did bring up Sheldon's jealousy as a factor, they seemed to focus a little more on his fear of being alone.

 

I also think that maybe rather than having Sheldon and Leonard have a heart-to-heart, they wanted to spend a little time on Leonard and Penny dealing with it.  I don't know that a scene between Sheldon and Leonard was exactly necessary if Sheldon is going to be in denial about how he feels.

 

The scene between Penny and Leonard gives them a moment to show how strong and trusting their relationship has become, the scene between Penny and Sheldon shows her helping Sheldon get past the jealousy he was kind of able to admit, and the scene between Leonard and Sheldon showed that Leonard perhaps already understood more about what Sheldon might be feeling than Sheldon realized.

 

So with all of that plus the party scene and the goodbye at the airport--and Raj's relationship scenes, which were also necessary to set him up for next season (and to give him the "big" season ending twist)--I don't think there was a good rhythmic spot for another "serious" scene, especially since it's more likely that Sheldon would simply deny his fears or jealousies to Leonard anyway.  He might admit them to Penny, but probably not to Leonard.

 

I mentioned on the other forum that I could easily imagine Sheldon thinking at first that it was going to be good having the place all to himself, like he did when the guys went to Vegas without him.  He might figure he can eat whatever he wants, watch whatever he wants, without having to compromise with anyone.  He can have peace and quiet and the solitude that he imagines he loves.

Of course, he'd be slightly inconvenienced in getting around, but he knows how to ride the bus and he could probably get one of the guys to give him a ride home, etc.

 

But then he starts to feel the loneliness (and maybe some fear) and starts bugging the guys about little things, trying to tempt them to come over for various reasons, and bugging Penny and/or Amy about all kinds of things, both real and imagined.

I could see a quick montage of Sheldon knocking on Penny's door for a million kooky things, driving her up the wall, trying to come up with excuses for human contact or help.

[Lissie]

I think that, as Molaro has said, at this point they feel that the audience understands these characters well enough that the show can afford to explore more of their personal issues, like Howard's father, like Sheldon and Leonard's relationship, like all of the couples.

But the show is still primarily a comedy and they're going to focus on the comedic timing of scenes and of the overall show.

 

Maybe they should have had more of a moment between Sheldon and Leonard, but I wonder if they were planting the seeds of what they may intend to do in the opening of S7.  Leonard called Sheldon on his fear of being alone (and Sheldon didn't entirely deny it) and then Leonard asked Penny to take care of Sheldon because, again, he felt Sheldon wouldn't like being alone for that whole time.

Though they did bring up Sheldon's jealousy as a factor, they seemed to focus a little more on his fear of being alone.

 

I also think that maybe rather than having Sheldon and Leonard have a heart-to-heart, they wanted to spend a little time on Leonard and Penny dealing with it.  I don't know that a scene between Sheldon and Leonard was exactly necessary if Sheldon is going to be in denial about how he feels.

 

The scene between Penny and Leonard gives them a moment to show how strong and trusting their relationship has become, the scene between Penny and Sheldon shows her helping Sheldon get past the jealousy he was kind of able to admit, and the scene between Leonard and Sheldon showed that Leonard perhaps already understood more about what Sheldon might be feeling than Sheldon realized.

 

So with all of that plus the party scene and the goodbye at the airport--and Raj's relationship scenes, which were also necessary to set him up for next season (and to give him the "big" season ending twist)--I don't think there was a good rhythmic spot for another "serious" scene, especially since it's more likely that Sheldon would simply deny his fears or jealousies to Leonard anyway.  He might admit them to Penny, but probably not to Leonard.

 

I mentioned on the other forum that I could easily imagine Sheldon thinking at first that it was going to be good having the place all to himself, like he did when the guys went to Vegas without him.  He might figure he can eat whatever he wants, watch whatever he wants, without having to compromise with anyone.  He can have peace and quiet and the solitude that he imagines he loves.

Of course, he'd be slightly inconvenienced in getting around, but he knows how to ride the bus and he could probably get one of the guys to give him a ride home, etc.

 

But then he starts to feel the loneliness (and maybe some fear) and starts bugging the guys about little things, trying to tempt them to come over for various reasons, and bugging Penny and/or Amy about all kinds of things, both real and imagined.

I could see a quick montage of Sheldon knocking on Penny's door for a million kooky things, driving her up the wall, trying to come up with excuses for human contact or help.

I agree with all this, I hope too all this will happen! Will be so interesting to watch Oh I am so anxious about next season!!

Edited May 24, 2013 by Lissie

[djvang]

I preferred vintage Sheldon 1.0 over the later releases.

[Lissie]

I preferred vintage Sheldon 1.0 over the later releases.

Vintage Sheldon was fabulous

[rachelshamyfan]

He still has all his little quirks which I like but the writers need to stop with penny and Leonard treating like he's their kid!

[gaqo]

Yes, 'How to Destroy a Character',...ch1....take a genius, and infantalise him, make him repeatedly wet himself, continually humiliate him. The comedy will turn into farce, if they don't allow this character to flourish.              I love the way, I don't care anymore about ; using a larger vocabulary, using 'one' instead of 'you'..... as a general pronoun, talking about scientific theory, because If Dr. Sheldon Cooper does it, it's okay. He's like the Spock of this generation, he makes it okay!

Edited June 13, 2013 by gaqo

[phantagrae]

Yes, 'How to Destroy a Character',...ch1....take a genius, and infantalise him, make him repeatedly wet himself, continually humiliate him. The comedy will turn into farse, if they don't allow this character to flourish.              I love the way, I don't care anymore about ; using a larger vocabulary, using 'one' instead of 'you'..... as a general pronoun, talking about scientific theory, because If Dr. Sheldon Cooper does it, it's okay. He's like the Spock of this generation, he makes it okay!

 

I'm sorry, but WTH are you even saying?

[gaqo]

Oh come on!!!! The first part, continues a sentiment expressed in the previous post. The second part is self explanatory!

[phantagrae]

Oh come on!!!! The first part, continues a sentiment expressed in the previous post. The second part is self explanatory!

 

No, the second part, beginning with "I love the way..." is simply a mish-mash of half-stated, incomplete phrases.

 

Oh, and farce is spelled with a C.  I assume you don't mean farse as in "An addition to, or a paraphrase of, some part of the Latin service in the vernacular; -- common in English before the Reformation",

[gaqo]

Thanks for the correction!

[gaqo]

And another thing I like about Sheldon, is his attitude about money. He has all the possessions he needs(until technology can match his desires), he has money. Therefore he doesn't care about money. How refreshing! Here Penny have some more! And he doesn't trust banks. Was that written before, or after, the crash.

[wannamaker]

Yes, 'How to Destroy a Character',...ch1....take a genius, and infantalise him, make him repeatedly wet himself, continually humiliate him. The comedy will turn into farce, if they don't allow this character to flourish.              I love the way, I don't care anymore about ; using a larger vocabulary, using 'one' instead of 'you'..... as a general pronoun, talking about scientific theory, because If Dr. Sheldon Cooper does it, it's okay. He's like the Spock of this generation, he makes it okay!

 

 

Perhaps... it does not make it ok.  For sometime I made myself believe that TBBT was a bit of a mockery show about nerd scientists, so to laugh about them. Because scientists are very studious individuals, taking themselves seriously indeed. So these writers one day came out with this TBBT formula to make us to be entartained by this group of nerds who are more approachable and more helpless than the rest of them.

[gaqo]

I suppose it depends on whether you think we are laughing at them, or with them. I think there's some of both going on. Writers have an almost god like power, in that they can do what they like, play with characters lives. It seems to me that as they've shifted the focus away from Sheldon, the characters (and therefore the audience), are only laughing at him.

[gaqo]

Perhaps... it does not make it ok.  For sometime I made myself believe that TBBT was a bit of a mockery show about nerd scientists, so to laugh about them. Because scientists are very studious individuals, taking themselves seriously indeed. So these writers one day came out with this TBBT formula to make us to be entartained by this group of nerds who are more approachable and more helpless than the rest of them.

I think my point really was that; people shouldn't be afraid to be seen as intelligent, or aspire to be intelligent. In most cultures it's lauded. In some Western cultures, nerds are still bullied, let's face it,by those threatened by their intelligence. ( I didn't understand that scene, where Sheldon was complaining about being bullied as a child, and his mother said, 'I think we both know why they didn't like you'. Surely it was because they were threatened!) As someone who has been accused of using 'pseudo-intellectual bull crap'(paraphrasing) on this site, I wonder how such ideas as 'The Death of the Author' has passed people by. Leonard was right when he said that nerds were becoming the new 'alphas'. Those at the forefront of technological, and cultural development are nerdy. The more artists, writers, and musicians, who own this, and express how obsessive, and perfectionist traits help them in their creativity, the better. When cool dudes like DJ Yoda(audio visual artist), admit they are nerdy, maybe it's a sign attitudes are changing for the better!

Edited June 20, 2013 by gaqo

[wannamaker]

I think my point really was that,  people shouldn't be afraid to be seen as intelligent, or aspire to be intelligent. In most cultures it's lauded. In some Western cultures, nerds are still bullied, let's face it, by those threatened by their intelligence. ( I didn't understand that scene, where Sheldon was complaining about being bullied as a child, and his mother said, 'I think we both know why they didn't like you'. Surely it was because they were threatened!) As someone who has been accused of using 'pseudo-intellectual bull crap' (paraphrasing) on this site, I wonder how such ideas as 'The Death of the Author' has passed people by.

Leonard was right when he said that nerds were becoming the new 'alphas' >>>Those at the forefront of technological and cultural development. The more artists, writers, and musicians, who own this, and express how obsessive, and perfectionist traits help them in their creativity, the better. When cool dudes like DJ Yoda (audio visual artist), admit they are nerdy, maybe it's a sign attitudes are changing for the better!

 

Not only the new 'alphas' i would call them the new intelligentsia of the future >>why not?

[Nogravitasatall]

Definitely not the right topic, but since someone mentioned The Week-End Vortex, let's remember that he actually apologises to Amy and that she's more than excited to go to the Science Centre with him. And in The Shiny Trinket Manoeuvre, he's so distraught by their argument about the Neuron cover that he actually ends up drinking virtual alcohol - he doesn't understand why Amy's upset, but it upsets him that she is upset. Sheldon may not show it, but deep down, he does care. That's the paradox of his character, really: he doesn't want to care, because he's not a hippie, but he does.

It's the same with Leonard. He goes tell Penny not to break up with Leonard because he likes homeostasis, but at the last moment, he tells her not to hurt his friend. He can pretend to only care about himself all he wants, he doesn't fool anyone. That's why Leonard stays, even through all the crap. Leonard's got the biggest heart of anyone on this show and he's able to see past everyone's barriers and he knows that Sheldon cares. When they first meet, Sheldon says he loves the spot on the couch because it allows him to avoid conversations, but now, whenever he mentions why he loves his spot, he says that it's ideally placed because it allows him to take part in conversations. From the very first day of their friendship, Leonard was able to get through Sheldon's armour to get the humanity in him out of his body.

That's why I say that more than Leonard/Penny, Leonard and Sheldon's relationship is at the chore of the show. It's the basis upon which all other relationships are built.

Hi Lost,

I lost my response when I cut and pasted .

But where I'm at is the symmetry of the relationships. Sheldon and Leonard are asymmetrical and things like enforcing control over a toilet schedule are just really (criminally?) wrong, if funny at first blush (flush?). Leonard and Penny are working up to symmetry and the passing of the proposal baton capped that. Amy and Sheldon are asymmetric too and that's his journey - to make that work for them.

They are all essential to the show, and Sheldon's character is there to create situations by being unreasonable and an asshat. In real life living with someone like Sheldon would very challenging. It reflects well on Leonard that he loves his buddy and less well that he puts up with things like the roommate agreement. It's necessary, for comedy that they do things like that,

However, in the long run, except for small drops of sweetness that you and others will remind me off, Sheldon generally treats people without due consideration. That's his character. And I've been watching since ep1 in 2008 so I've lived it real time, which I think entitles me to an opinion.

He may change in some aspects but I think that is one of the constants. It doesn't need to be forgiven or overlooked. He may care deep down, but its not his preference to act on what he knows.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Nogravitasatall