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I agree that the writers started out making Lennard and Penny the main characters, Shamy has up staged them and are now keeping BBT at the top of the ratings. I personally prefer Lenny over Shamy, But I can't close my eyes to the fact Shamy threads get way more hits than Lenny thread on all the forums. Fact is Sheldon can drive me up a wall at times and I couldn't put up with him in real life.

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I totally agree. One of the reasons for the rapid advance of the Lenny story line is, IMHO, a decision to clear out space for the Shamy to carry the relationship load in the future. After six years of being the primary couple Lenny will be solidified and brought to some staple end; a long engagement and/or marriage in season 7. There's simply not enough juice left in the Lenny story line without repeating previous plot points which would just tick off the loyalist.

 

Then we will see the unfolding of Amy's long range plan for the capturing of Sheldon. Chuck Lorre has said that the Shamy is fun new territory and they will be front and center for the rest of the series run after the expected extension beyond season 7.

Edited by BangerMain
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I totally agree. One of the reasons for the rapid advance of the Lenny story line is, IMHO, a decision to clear out space for the Shamy to carry the relationship load in the future. After six years of being the primary couple Lenny will be solidified and brought to some staple end; a long engagement and/or marriage in season 7. There's simple not enough juice left in the Lenny story line without repeating previous plot points which would just tick off the loyalist.

 

Then we will see the unfolding of Amy's long range plan for the capturing of Sheldon. Chuck Lorre has said that the Shamy is fun new territory and they will be front and center for the rest of the series run after the expected extension beyond season 7.

That sounds superb! :wub:

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seconded

Third. It would be nice for Lenny and Penny to have a stable relationship the rest of the show. Let Sheldon any Amy have all the drama.

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Third. It would be nice for Lenny and Penny to have a stable relationship the rest of the show. Let Sheldon any Amy have all the drama.

 

Its a bit like pass the parcel "we don't want it, you have it!" pass on that relationship drama… :icon_lol:

 

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You appear to have forgotten the third season of TOS of Star Trek, dreck like "Spock's Brain" and "The Way to Eden" still stinks up the TV screen. This crap appeared in an attempt to ward off cancellation and it shows that our memories truly are edited.

 

TBBT will be thought of endearingly 20 years from now because the majority of its fans and the critics rave about it in its latter seasons, it did not have a big enough base in its first two seasons to get into the collective consciousness. There are far more fans who will respond to seasons 5 or 6 than will recall season 1. It is simply a numbers game, millions more saw first run episodes in season 6 then in season 1 and 2  combined. I dare say the majority of fans now only saw those early episodes in reruns and those serve as back story for the current season.

 

Yes, it has bigger numbers now. The thing is, it's bigger because it's been watered down to appeal to a more general audience. It's gone from special & unique to typical. It's like the difference between a cup of Jamaican Blue Mountain Coffee and a plain ol' cup o' joe at Dunkin' Donuts. The Blue Mountain coffee is far more expensive & has a high appeal to a specific taste, while Dunkin' Donuts offers typical, garden variety coffee that has some appeal to everyone. TBBT used to appeal to a specific taste... Now it has a bigger, but far more generalized audience. TBBT has been dumbed-down to draw in the masses. That's okay if your idea of good is Dunkin' Donuts. I'll drink Dunkin' Donuts coffee, but I don't love it. I still watch TBBT, but I don't feel the same about it as I used to.

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Yes, it has bigger numbers now. The thing is, it's bigger because it's been watered down to appeal to a more general audience. It's gone from special & unique to typical. It's like the difference between a cup of Jamaican Blue Mountain Coffee and a plain ol' cup o' joe at Dunkin' Donuts. The Blue Mountain coffee is far more expensive & has a high appeal to a specific taste, while Dunkin' Donuts offers typical, garden variety coffee that has some appeal to everyone. TBBT used to appeal to a specific taste... Now it has a bigger, but far more generalized audience. TBBT has been dumbed-down to draw in the masses. That's okay if your idea of good is Dunkin' Donuts. I'll drink Dunkin' Donuts coffee, but I don't love it. I still watch TBBT, but I don't feel the same about it as I used to.

I'm becoming more sympathetic. Largely because of the contortions Sheldon is going through. I'm not convinced there is anything implausibly contrived with Penny that I can't accept, but Sheldon is a bit like my great-grandfathers axe now. New head, new handle, same axe.

Gross generalisation I know. But if it gets the Penny/Leonard story told...

And I would say normalised maybe, not dumbed down. it was different, but always mass market, never really intellectual. IMO.

Edited by Llatasativargon

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I have trouble with dumbed-down. I still love the show as much now as I did when I watched it during the first season. Does this mean I'm dumber now than I was back when I was watching the first season? After all, it's been dumbed-down, right? Anomaly, this isn't directed at you as much as it's directed at the dumbed-down comment. I've been seeing that comment quite a bit over the last two to three years and I'm just wondering what it's supposed to mean to those of us who still love the show just as much.

Edited by Tensor
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Yes, everyone who appreciates the show as it is now is a tasteless idiot, Tensor, didn't you get that memo? Oh, and also the one that said you are a teeny-bopper girl. I'm sure you missed that one too. Better start buying those Justin Bieber cds. 

Edited by koops
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I have trouble with dumbed-down. I still love the show as much now as I did when I watched it during the first season. Does this mean I'm dumber now than I was back when I was watching the first season? After all, it's been dumbed-down, right? Anomaly, this isn't directed at you as much as it's directed at the dumbed-down comment. I've been seeing that comment quite a bit over the last two to three years and I'm just wondering what it's supposed to mean to those of us who still love the show just as much.

 

This might help:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

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I have trouble with dumbed-down. I still love the show as much now as I did when I watched it during the first season. Does this mean I'm dumber now than I was back when I was watching the first season? After all, it's been dumbed-down, right? Anomaly, this isn't directed at you as much as it's directed at the dumbed-down comment. I've been seeing that comment quite a bit over the last two to three years and I'm just wondering what it's supposed to mean to those of us who still love the show just as much.

 

No, that's not what I meant. It just seems the show is catering to an audience that is less familiar with the references that used to be thrown around, and is now aimed at more of a casual audience. I'm not talking just about scientific and/or nerd references, but the general feel of the show. It's gone from this quirky, unique show to an extremely typical, bunch of twenty-somethings with relationship issues rom-com. What this show has become... We've all seen before. Maybe dumbed-down was a bad term to chose, but I do feel TBBT has become watered-down and homogenized over the past few seasons. I'm not saying I no longer like TBBT, because I do. I just think the writers have squandered it's uniqueness in reaching a larger, but more casual audience. Using my coffee analogy from above... Blue Mountain coffee is a coffee drinker's coffee, while Dunkin' Donuts makes a coffee for people who like coffee or need a shot of caffeine, but it's not generally a coffee connoisseur's coffee  TBBT seasons 1-3 was the Blue Mountain sit-com, while seasons 4-6 are the Dunkin' Donuts rom-com. As someone who became a connoisseur of the show, I do tend to look down on what it's become. 

Edited by Anomaly
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Ahhhhhhhh, ok. I can see where someone could get that(I don't agree with it, but I can understand it, and that's part of the fun, right?) Thanks for making your thoughts more clear for me.

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Ahhhhhhhh, ok. I can see where someone could get that(I don't agree with it, but I can understand it, and that's part of the fun, right?) Thanks for making your thoughts more clear for me.

 

Yes, that's definitely part of the fun. Unfortunately, some (not you) on here are unwilling to accept that their's isn't the only opinion or point of view.

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That is a fair point.  When Penny visited Leonard in his lab, she said, "Sometimes I forget how smart you are."  I remember thinking, she isn't the only one.  I'd sort of forgotten about the Leonard who'd been published in peer-review journals and immediately "got" Sheldon's reference to Shrodinger's cat.  Up until that episode his nerdiness had focused too much on games/comics/scifi and not enough on being a really bright physicist.

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Hehehehehe, oh I can be a complete pain in the ass. But I try to support my pain in the ass position with examples, so at least you know specifically where I'm coming from. Doesn't always work, but I try. ;)

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I have trouble with dumbed-down. I still love the show as much now as I did when I watched it during the first season. Does this mean I'm dumber now than I was back when I was watching the first season? After all, it's been dumbed-down, right? Anomaly, this isn't directed at you as much as it's directed at the dumbed-down comment. I've been seeing that comment quite a bit over the last two to three years and I'm just wondering what it's supposed to mean to those of us who still love the show just as much.

 

I tend to think that if you are comfortable with how smart you are you don't worry about liking something that has been dumbed-down (whether you agree with the comment or not).  

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That is a fair point.  When Penny visited Leonard in his lab, she said, "Sometimes I forget how smart you are."  I remember thinking, she isn't the only one.  I'd sort of forgotten about the Leonard who'd been published in peer-review journals and immediately "got" Sheldon's reference to Shrodinger's cat.  Up until that episode his nerdiness had focused too much on games/comics/scifi and not enough on being a really bright physicist.

 

I think this is a good illustration of how the show has changed. It's being written for a broader audience, which means some of the snappy references have been watered down and there is less emphasis on the guys as scientists in favor of interpersonal-type storylines.  Not to say that there haven't been romantic-type storylines from the very beginning, because there have.  But it definitely seems to me that the humor has turned more...well, broad is the word I'll use.

 

It kind of makes me cringe to see that the show is number one now, because, well, so was Two and a Half Men and I hate that show with a passion.  I can't help wondering when TBBT will devolve into nothing but the crude sex and fart jokes that appear to appeal to the widest swath of the "mainstream" audience.

 

ETA: And I have no idea what this has to do with Penny, specifically. :D

Edited by Europa
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No, that's not what I meant. It just seems the show is catering to an audience that is less familiar with the references that used to be thrown around, and is now aimed at more of a casual audience. I'm not talking just about scientific and/or nerd references, but the general feel of the show. It's gone from this quirky, unique show to an extremely typical, bunch of twenty-somethings with relationship issues rom-com. What this show has become... We've all seen before. Maybe dumbed-down was a bad term to chose, but I do feel TBBT has become watered-down and homogenized over the past few seasons. I'm not saying I no longer like TBBT, because I do. I just think the writers have squandered it's uniqueness in reaching a larger, but more casual audience. Using my coffee analogy from above... Blue Mountain coffee is a coffee drinker's coffee, while Dunkin' Donuts makes a coffee for people who like coffee or need a shot of caffeine, but it's not generally a coffee connoisseur's coffee TBBT seasons 1-3 was the Blue Mountain sit-com, while seasons 4-6 are the Dunkin' Donuts rom-com. As someone who became a connoisseur of the show, I do tend to look down on what it's become.

Great post. I have similar feelings. Using your coffee analogy, I would put S1-3 in the connoisseur, acquired taste class, S4-5 was like on or below par everyday coffee. S6 is above (maybe the best) everyday coffee out there.

As a latecomer to show, what drove them to change? Were the ratings so poor that the show could've been canceled?

Edited by Kaizen

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I totally agree. One of the reasons for the rapid advance of the Lenny story line is, IMHO, a decision to clear out space for the Shamy to carry the relationship load in the future. After six years of being the primary couple Lenny will be solidified and brought to some staple end; a long engagement and/or marriage in season 7. There's simply not enough juice left in the Lenny story line without repeating previous plot points which would just tick off the loyalist.

 

Then we will see the unfolding of Amy's long range plan for the capturing of Sheldon. Chuck Lorre has said that the Shamy is fun new territory and they will be front and center for the rest of the series run after the expected extension beyond season 7.

That's awesome news.  Had enough of the Lenny breakups, psycho drama, and seeing them dragged through the mud.  I don't know if it's the writers or actors themselves, but Lenny can't fight. The big ones esp. are neither funny or entertaining. 

Let Shamy handle the drama and fight scenes.  They're way better at doing mad and funny at the same time.   

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That's awesome news.  Had enough of the Lenny breakups, psycho drama, and seeing them dragged through the mud.  I don't know if it's the writers or actors themselves, but Lenny can't fight. The big ones esp. are neither funny or entertaining. 

Let Shamy handle the drama and fight scenes.  They're way better at doing mad and funny at the same time.   

 

Good observation. Lenny can't fight. They are both insecure, especially Penny (understandable given her past history with men) and their fights are uncomfortable to the viewers because there is always the fear she will run. What we have seen is Leonard tiptoeing around her to avoid her exploding. In season 6 they are fixing that by having Penny feel secure enough to talk to Leonard about her fears and insecurity and he is now confident he can call her on things she does wrong without there being a blow-up.

 

Shamy can fight without fear becuase this is the first releationship for both of them and likely the only one given their personalities. They seem to have written them both as feeling they know they are endgame.

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That is so true, L/P big fights are neither funny or entertaining they are pure drama that leaves the viewers feeling sorry for both characters, so they have no purpose in a sitcom. So writers, no more big L/P fights or break ups.

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Great post. I have similar feelings. Using your coffee analogy, I would put S1-3 in the connoisseur, acquired taste class, S4-5 was like on or below par everyday coffee. S6 is above (maybe the best) everyday coffee out there.

As a latecomer to show, what drove them to change? Were the ratings so poor that the show could've been canceled?

 

The short answer is "Yes" and "No".

 

The first two seasons of TBBT were not very successful. They finished 68th in the ratings for season 1 with a little over 8 million viewers. Season 2 they finished 44th with 10 million. CBS did not cancel the show because it was produced by Chuck Lorre who had the number 1 comedy on at the time, Two and a Half Men.

 

What CBS allowed Lorre to do in season 3 was put it on at 9:30PM right after TaaHM to make sure it got maximum exposure and Lorre made some major changes. Leonard and Penny not only got together they were like bunny rabbits in heat. Bernadette was introduced for Howard in the 5th episode and Amy for Sheldon in the season 3 finale. It went to 12th in the ratings by the final numbers.

 

Unfortunately, Lorre then sent the show into a mini creative tailspin by breaking L/P up in the final few weeks of season 3 then really screwed thing up by redoing the Penny character in season 4 to match his original concept. Season 4 is the only one where the ratings went down, through to be fair some of that was its initial move to Thrusday nights away from the TaaHM lead-in. But, IMO, the story lines at the end (Penny drunk and depressed about losing Leonard to Priya and then sleeping with Raj) had the fans disinterested or just plain angry.

 

The amazing revival of TBBT started midway through season 5 and has had the show soaring in the ratings and critcal acclaim in season 6 after the shows day-to-day creative control was given to Steve Molara.

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That is so true, L/P big fights are neither funny or entertaining they are pure drama that leaves the viewers feeling sorry for both characters, so they have no purpose in a sitcom. So writers, no more big L/P fights or break ups.

It will be fun to watch if they write S7 with an assumption that Penny won't be the runaway. The show will change again because it won't be such high drama. Also I wonder if I will miss the melodrama . I know the mass audience will not care, as they did not care for s1-3 so much but I'd laugh at myself if I started writing "...remember the good old days of s4, when we had poignancy and real emotion..."

But the the last monster isolation had no P/L drama and I enjoyed that one.

For myself, the other relationships are less engaging, even though I do enjoy the characters.

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There's talk on the other threads about the parents of the characters on the show, and I'm trying to remember if they've ever said whether Penny's parents are still married.  Anybody remember?

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I think they have been silent on that. We know her mum is not a slim woman by Sheldons standards and we have seen Wyatt who had a nom de TV earlier of Bob. That's all I've got. There is no flagging that I recall that they have hit a reef.

Edited by Llatasativargon

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