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You mean just at the university, right?  They have kept his successes there are on the light side but in every other aspect of his life we have witnessed many examples that prove his intelligence.

 

I'm just saying, for someone of his supposed intelligence, the show has made Barry Kripke, Leslie Winkle and Dennis Kim all appear smarter. But yeah, I'm talking about professionally.

Edited by Anomaly

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I'm just saying, for someone of his supposed intelligence, the show has made Barry Kripke, Leslie Winkle and Dennis Kim all appear smarter. But yeah, I'm talking about professionally.

 

 

That is true.  I think they are comfortable going that route for comedy because they show a strong contrast normally between him and the other main characters of the show except Amy.  If you were to believe the Physics bowl you would accept that he is nearly smarter than the other 3 plus Winkle combined.

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That is true.  I think they are comfortable going that route for comedy because they show a strong contrast normally between him and the other main characters of the show except Amy.  If you were to believe the Physics bowl you would accept that he is nearly smarter than the other 3 plus Winkle combined.

 

Then there's the episode where she fixed what was on his dry erase board at the apartment. He made some comment that he wouldn't change what was on her board, and she said There's no errors on my board (or something like that). The Physics Bowl was a test of general knowledge, but as far as the actual work the characters are doing, I don't see Sheldon accomplishing much, if anything. I definitely don't see any signs of his great intelligence. Then again, I guess they can't really have him make any breakthroughs that haven't actually been made. And once they are made, they can't really have him make them.

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Sheldon is at least moderately successful as a CalTech scientist. He's gotten several grants funded we know of (the expedition to the North Pole would cost a bundle, and he had enough money to hire Raj). He has grant money to hire Alex, too. Generally at universities of Cal Tech level, you get fired if you don't bring in enough money to cover your own salary and research expenses within three years. To be a candidate for tenure, he's probably bringing something in the range of $500,000 or more in grant money a year. Maybe less since he's a theoretical physicist. You don't get that kind of money unless you are publishing significant articles in peer reviewed journals several times a year. This is also true of Leonard. Given that they don't have tenure, if they weren't this successful, their contracts would not be renewed. If they have an honest shot at tenure, they are definitely this successful. Tenure is a positive reward for highly successful work, and is given instead of real money. The university is signing a practically unbreakable contract that they will employ you forever, with minimum obligations on your part. The only way to lose tenure is to either violate a major law or ethical rule, or stop working.

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That's all well & good. I'm simply saying we (the audience) haven't really been witness to any of his greatness. The back-story, character profile and real-life workings of a Theoretical Physicist are okay as reference points, but what has Sheldon actually done on screen? As far as his work & intellect are concerned, he has definitely been shown-up by Leslie Winkle, Dennis Kim & Barry Kripke. Hell, as pointed out in one episode, even Howard Wolowitz is making real contributions to science as compared to Sheldon.

 

That said, my actual point was that Penny isn't the only character the audience has come to (somewhat) know through inference, speculation and/or unseen evidence.. We've been told Sheldon has superior intellect and has made great contributions to science, but we've never actually seen any. The show has dealt with Penny in the same way... Even more-so.

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You're right, we haven't seen any evidence of genius, just him doing what we think is his job. Theoreticians do just write on whiteboards. The eidetic memory is nice but still not evidence of genius. His main field of string theory is so out there that there are only a limited number of people in the world, Stephen Hawking, that would know if he was right. The problem with Sheldon is that he is so arrogant and condescending (I kept wanting to write "so Sheldon" figuring anyone on this forum would know what I mean) that no one would normally give him a complement. The only time this happened, and it was clearly sincere, was by Barry Kripke of all people. After he reviews his work on fusion, he tells him there are some brilliant insights, but it in the context of a Sheldon ashamed that his work is not light years better than Barry's. To sum up a bit, none of these guys would be at CalTech unless they were the best in their field, but one has to know the field to infer that. No one in their right mind would compliment Sheldon when he is in his normal Homo Novus midset. It woudl just feed his already enormous ego.

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Since this topic is about PENNY!  I will refrain saying anything about HIM.  Is it me or did anyone else think the writers went out of their way to make Penny look stupid, during the episode with the girls reading the comic books?

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Since this topic is about PENNY! I will refrain saying anything about HIM. Is it me or did anyone else think the writers went out of their way to make Penny look stupid, during the episode with the girls reading the comic books?

It's you.

Kidding. :)

TBTB will always turn up the contrast for comedic effect. So yes they did.

Maybe one can distinguish slow reading from stupidity. I don't know if they correlate in real life. But she held her own in an argument with 2 PhDs. That might say something about her reasoning ability. They were on an equal knowledge base...ie zero.

(And I won't mention HIM and his eidetic memory that seems to substitute memory for smarts. He can't order soup, remember. Oh dang! I did)

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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Since this topic is about PENNY!  I will refrain saying anything about HIM.  Is it me or did anyone else think the writers went out of their way to make Penny look stupid, during the episode with the girls reading the comic books?

thank you-it look like a sheldon thread

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Maybe one can distinguish slow reading from stupidity. I don't know if they correlate in real life. 

 

Studies show they don't.   Think dyslexia in a superior intelligence.   The only shown correlation between reading skills and intelligence is when the test for intelligence requires reading.   For example, the current Stanford-Binet test, doesn't necessarily require reading skills, as the subtests can be administered by examiners, without the need for reading.  

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thank you-it look like a sheldon thread

 

I just brought up Sheldon to show that Penny isn't the only character who hasn't really demonstrated what we have been led to believe she is (Sheldon to much less degree though).

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It is funny how HE can intrude on things. I think the latest diversion started when we were discussing Penny's intelligence. I maintain that she's smarter than she is often portrayed on the show, since she fits into a highly intelligent group. The idea that a Cheesecake Factory waitress could hang with a bunch of Ph.D.'s only works if she's very intelligent, but unschooled. She could have a reading disability, which would account for her apparent slow reading in "The Bakersfield Expedition". Of course, once you start arguing about comics, as nogravitasatall noted, all three girls are equal.

Some of the posts in other threads have suggested that Penny is not such a catch, but that's only when you try to judge Penny by standards that really don't work for Leonard. All the other women he's been with have jerked him around in some way for their own purposes. Penny doesn't. Even from the beginning, she just liked him as a person. The chemistry was there for the first couple of seasons. The fact that it took a while to get the chemistry back reflects the plot line. Leonard really didn't do too well without her, and she was basically celibate apart from Zack. Priya messed with him a lot. Penny deeply regretted breaking up with Leonard. Leonard was really hurt that she did, and the two of them staying close friends after breaking up for a fairly weak reason had to have been hard on both of them.  

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I agree. Just as we have never seen Sheldon accomplish anything worthy of the intelligence we are led to believe he possesses, Penny has never done anything to show that she is as dumb, slutty or back-woods as we are (sometimes) led to believe.

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I think  Penny has evolved throughout the 6 seasons from the sexy blond next door who was silly, dumb and without personality (that's what I think they wanted at the beggining Penny to be and during the first episodes was what I thought of her) to a girl with lot of personality and character. I really enjoy watching her evolution and how her relation with the others changes, especially with Sheldon.

 

It's true that Penny has never done anything to show that she is a dumb, but initially I don't know why, was the first thing I thought.

 

 

 

(Sorry because of my mistakes, I'm practicing writing in English) :icon_redface:

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Some of the posts in other threads have suggested that Penny is not such a catch, but that's only when you try to judge Penny by standards that really don't work for Leonard. All the other women he's been with have jerked him around in some way for their own purposes. Penny doesn't. Even from the beginning, she just liked him as a person. The chemistry was there for the first couple of seasons. The fact that it took a while to get the chemistry back reflects the plot line. Leonard really didn't do too well without her, and she was basically celibate apart from Zack. Priya messed with him a lot. Penny deeply regretted breaking up with Leonard. Leonard was really hurt that she did, and the two of them staying close friends after breaking up for a fairly weak reason had to have been hard on both of them.  

Wait-- what? Chemistry? Leonard and Penny? Is that a joke?

And Penny, celibate? I have no idea where you got that idea. Unless you have some kind of direct quote from the show, in which case I will withdraw my objections.

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Apart from Zack, she was never shown with another guy or talked about another guy after the break up with Leonard. In conversations with the other girls, she never mentions a guy, dating anyone or sleeping around. Since none of the girls had a specific loyalty to Leonard, and were actually her girlfriends, if she was dating, it should have come up. There is no evidence she saw anyone other than Zack after breaking up with Leonard. Prior to dating Leonard, she was only shown with a few guys, and little evidence of the sleeping around that everyone seems to think she does. In one episode, the first of the fourth season, Sheldon does an extrapolation that supposedly proves that she slept around a lot. It was never brought up again, and it was theoretical at that. The evidence in the show is that once she and Leonard started dating at the beginning of the third season, she did not sleep around much if at all. IF she sleeps around, it is not a factor in the show as it never appears in the episodes. Now of course, it is entirely moot as Leonard and Penny are "pre-engaged".

 

The basic premise of the show is the interactions between Leonard and Penny, and Leonard's peculiar roommate. If there were no chemistry between the main three characters, the show would have died out the first season, if it survived the writer's strike of '07. You may not agree that there was chemistry between Leonard and Penny at first, but apparently a lot of people thought enough of the characters and their interactions to keep watching. Lenny is the core ship, and canon. The only time I ever saw things were awkward between them was oddly enough, when they were dating the first time. I don't think the writers knew how to write them as a couple. This frequently happens in sitcoms unrequited love interests as the initial premise of the show.

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Wait-- what? Chemistry? Leonard and Penny? Is that a joke?

And Penny, celibate? I have no idea where you got that idea. Unless you have some kind of direct quote from the show, in which case I will withdraw my objections.

 

To back up hamerman's point, I've got some specifics.  According to the show, the only person she dated between breaking up with Leonard in "The Wheaton Recurrence" (3.19) and getting back together with Leonard in "The Recombination Hypothesis" is Zack.   In  the last episode of the season three, The Lunar Excitation(3.23) she is seeing Zack but she leaves him at the party, so she didn't have sex with him during that episode.   She does admit to having sex with him in "The Alien Parasite Hypothesis" 4.10, when Amy asks here if seeing Zack is the same as having sex with him.   But, she was only shown with Zack in 3.23 (Zack's not around in any of the episodes between 3.19 and 3.22) and since she leaves him to go back to Leonard and Zack isn't mentioned again until season four, the sex she had with Zack would have had to have been between 3.22 and 3.23.  And while Zack does show up later in season 4 once as an interest for Penny, (he's part of Sheldon's group of friends who are having fun wrong and as someone who excites Amy), Penny specifically states, in that episode (The Justice League Recombination, 4.09) she's only with him to have a date for New Year's and that "her and Zack aren't really her and Zack.".

     There is a possibility that she does get together with someone when Amy and Bernadette "kidnap" Penny to take her out dancing to forget about Leonard and Priya in "The Toast Derivation" (4.17).  But, there is nothing shown or specifically stated that she actually ended up seeing anyone.  Other than those two possibilities,  she is not shown going out with anyone, steady dating anyone, even hooking up with anyone for almost two years.  Nor is it mentioned that she has actually had sex with anyone during season four or the first half of season five.    Most of the second half of season four, there are numerous indications that she's carrying a torch for Leonard, rather than going out with others.  During that two year period, (except for Zack prior to 3.23) she is celibate (although that is where she may have been using her "battery operated chew toy" and since getting back together sexually, with Leonard, may be why she forgot about it in the closet).   

     That is what the episodes show, can you point out something other than those two instances of her actually even going out on a date with anyone during that period?   You may have been misled (many have) because It was highly implied that Penny had many partners in the early years of the show, and, in seasons four and five, those implications, of the early years, are continued.  But all of Penny's sexual contacts (except for one possibility) are shown or implied to be before season four, not in season four and five. 

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Wait-- what? Chemistry? Leonard and Penny? Is that a joke?

And Penny, celibate? I have no idea where you got that idea. Unless you have some kind of direct quote from the show, in which case I will withdraw my objections.

Your first post and you kick off with this. You must feel strongly about it. I think it goes to the shows ability to get under people's skin.

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I think someone said it before, her character was punished by not dating much and drinking more. While Leonard tried to mend his broken heart by finding love with someone else.

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It is really funny, to find yourself in a situation that occurs to you is just like one of the characters in the show!  I have been driving around a while now with the "check engine/Maint. Requ"  light on.  My husband asked me (again) to have the mechanics take a look at it. ( we are leasing my car from the Toyota dealer I WORK for-LOL)  Yep, every day I was going to work and not thinking about getting it taken care of.  Sounds a bit like "Penny"?  :icon_razz:

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I'm a fan of orchestra leader Paul Mauriat. For those who don't know who he is (I'm willing to bet the Chiara knows) he is best known for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_b6xaVvgeM, a song that spent five weeks at #1 in 1968. But while searching around the net tonight (when I should have been writing and working on my Fan Fic, but I'm just not feeling it tonight}, I found the following by Mauriat.

For some reason, I hear the uptempo part as some sort of theme for Penny. The name of the song is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EueRPHWDSgE. The short film clip is part of a scene between Odysseus and Penelope. For those who don't have a classical leaning, Penelope was Odyseus' wife in the ancient Greek story, the Odyssey.

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