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Howard Wolowitz

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^ Doubt it.

Funny thing though, that out of people it's Howard who has married first and is going to have a baby soon. What a radical change - to the disadvantage of the audience.

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^ Doubt it.

Funny thing though, that out of people it's Howard who has married first and is going to have a baby soon. What a radical change - to the disadvantage of the audience.

 

It's funny, but on a show that started out about geeks... It's starting to give the message that geeks need to be "fixed" and turned into average people.

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It's funny, but on a show that started out about geeks... It's starting to give the message that geeks need to be "fixed" and turned into average people.

 

Yeah, I have been thinking about that. There are some voices here on this very forum who want Sheldon to hook up with Amy at all costs. But Sheldon is not just your everyday neighbor. He's a geek, and unique in his own way. And believe it or not, there are real people out there who are better off alone. Especially so called geniuses have some bizarre behavior. They had Leonard for the romcom subplots. But why on earth they couldn't leave Howard, and most importantly, Sheldon alone?

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The question is, will the writers come to their senses and return to the winning formular.

 

Dear catweazle...maybe they like to live dangerously :icon_cheesygrin:

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Yeah, I have been thinking about that. There are some voices here on this very forum who want Sheldon to hook up with Amy at all costs. But Sheldon is not just your everyday neighbor. He's a geek, and unique in his own way. And believe it or not, there are real people out there who are better off alone. Especially so called geniuses have some bizarre behavior. They had Leonard for the romcom subplots. But why on earth they couldn't leave Howard, and most importantly, Sheldon alone?

 

That's how the show should have developed. Unfortunately, TPTB have decided to take every one of the guys down the exact same predictable path... Become involved in a romantic type relationship, get their particular geekdom "fixed" and come out normal (AKA: boring). This would have been okay had it been Leonard's path with Penny. but it's also Howard's path with Bernadette, (probably) Raj's path with Lucy and (extremely unfortunately) Sheldon's path with Amy. Is that as creative as these "writers" can get... To do the same story 4 times (ruining each unique character in the process)? Howard has already been destroyed. Leonard was never that "different" to begin with, yet he was the one who realized he was somewhat nerdy & wanted to be more "normal". This is why his & Penny's story arc was logical. My guess is that Raj will eventually find his mate (if it's not Lucy), lose his mutism and become as normal & boring as Howard has. Then there's Sheldon... Probably the most unique & well liked TV character of the last decade. TPTB are well on their way to fixing (ruining) him as well.  

 

Seriously, I've come to hate this show. I wish I weren't already so invested in it & the characters.

Edited by Anomaly

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Hi, everyone :)  I'm new to this forum. Greetings! I'll try to express my opinions carefully, so that I don't piss too many people off, because I know this fandom has some very intense ship-wars and controversies and disagreements. Or, if I can't avoid pissing people off, then please just don't flame me too much :p

 

Please understand that when I talk about "people say XYZ" or "the fandom thinks XYZ", I am talking about fandom in general, and not necessarily any individuals on this board.

 

Anyway:

 

I love Howard, and I love Simon Helberg. I am one of those who prefer Seasons 1 and 2 and some parts of Season 3, and I'm really distressed by the change in tone and direction that the show took, after that. Here, you begin to see what I mean about disagreements and controversies ;)

 

I gotta say, Anomaly is my hero, because he has expressed many of the same thoughts I've had, and expressed them clearly and amusingly.

 

Here's the thing, though: it seems that I am GREATLY  in the minority on this, but I don't think Season 1 and Season 2 Howard was *that* creepy.  Or rather, Howard was always "creepy good, not creepy bad", as the saying goes :p

 

 I'm female, and I just *cannot* get on board with the people who find S1/S2 Howard to be a despicable or disgusting person.  I've think we've all known someone IRL who will say anything just to get a reaction, and that's sort of what Howard represents. People talk like he's this borderline-rapist, and I just don't see that, at all.

 

I find S1/S2 Howard very lovable and endearing.  Yes, he says and does things that are sleazy, inappropriate, and questionable. But I don't think he's anywhere near as repulsive, offensive, or objectionable as Penny considers him to be.  He's snarky and mischievous.

 

There are so many great things about S1/S2/S3 Howard's character. He's so enthusiastic, creative, witty, sarcastic, energetic,  colorful,  multi-talented. He has inventions. He has costumes. In that sense, he's like Q from the James Bond movies, always with some new invention or gadget.  He has so many different interests and hobbies. He is a big personality in a small body. 

 

If you watch those seasons again and really pay attention, much of the stuff Howard says is not explicitly sexual.  Some of it is just plain strange, and some of it is genuinely cute and charming.  

 

In the very earliest episodes, the impression I get is of this very strange young man who does not realize just how strange he is, like when he's on the train with Summer Glau and starts telling her about the bizarre dream he had.

 

People get all offended and bent out of shape about early-seasons Howard like they're personally being sexually harassed by him, but they forget that this is fiction. "I wouldn't want someone saying that to me in real life"  is not the same as "I wouldn't want to hear someone say that in a TV show."

 

Here's an example:  when Sheldon's twin sister Missy comes to visit, Howard says that he followed her from the parking lot into the building.  That sounds like the behavior of a stalker, but Howard does it because he's fascinated by her and curious about her, not because he wants to harm her.  He doesn't know how to approach her, and that's the whole point.  These male characters have difficulty approaching women without some excessively-elaborate wacky scheme. He watches her from a distance because he literally doesn't know what else to do. 

 

That's the whole point of this character: Howard is all talk. He is harmless. I don't believe for a second that he would ever harm a woman or do something truly malicious towards her.  It's not like he walks up to Missy, grabs her, and says "Hey, wanna f*ck?"

 

 

People forget that Howard is also a very nervous character.  Simon H. is really a brilliant actor, in this regard. He alternates between over-confidence and self-doubt. I have realized that my favorite fictional characters are very often the ones who alternate between being over-confident and under-confident, because I think that's a feeling we can all relate to.  S1/S2  Howard was simultaneously very sexual and rather naïve.  Yes, naïve.   He's the one who says things like "Is it a boy-girl party?" He's like a teenager, in a lot of ways.  People forget that Howard *talks* about sex a whole lot more than he actually experiences it.

 

Go back and watch that scene with the famous line about "I never joke about math or sex." Simon H's acting in that brief little moment is a mini-masterpiece. Look at his body-language.  He expresses SO much about the character, in just a few seconds.  Look at the way his fingers keep nervously plucking at the arm of the chair.  He's very nervous, very hyperactive.  His body-language is so uncomfortable, the way he almost lifts himself half-way out of the chair.  We learn from this brief moment that Howard is simultaneously confident and self-doubting, brazen and uncertain. It's just really excellent acting.

 

 I love the Horny Engineer ;)  I don't need to see  him change or "mature."  I see so much vitriol in the fandom about "Oh, thank god we don't have to watch that disgusting pervert anymore, Howard is cute and cuddly, now."  Then, I go back and watch S1/S2 and some parts of 3 and go "Really? You're disgusted by him? Are we watching the same character?"  Because I was always charmed by this wickedly mischievous little man, and he doesn't repulse me in the slightest.  

 

 What is entertaining about watching someone be a "good person"? What is entertaining about watching someone "mature" and "grow"? What is entertaining about watching someone be sensible and cautious?   The most entertaining characters are often the ones whose behavior is the most bizarre.  I don't think anyone actually wants Cosmo Kramer bursting in their door, eating all their food, and getting them entangled in embarrassing mishaps, for example. But we like to watch it, on TV.  There is nothing entertaining about "normal."

 

 

 Yes, it's pretty vulgar to look at someone and say "My people invented circumcision. You're welcome!", but it's also just a hilariously random WTF type of moment.  The question is not "Is this proper behavior"?  The question is "Is this good television?"

 

 

 TBH, I suspect some people are projecting their own negative experiences in the dating-world onto this character. If you're a female who has been hit-on by a lot of slimy guys, that's unfortunate, but it's not Howard's fault ;)  At least he has magic tricks xD

 

If they wanted this character to be disgusting and repulsive, then it was a miscalculation to cast someone as charming as Helberg, because his natural likeability shines through.

 

Maybe I'm twisted, lol.  Or maybe I'm just the Future Mrs. WolowitzTM.  xD XD

 

So, even if you disagree with everything in my post, here's an awesome .GIF:

post-9652-0-08774900-1370097207_thumb.gi

Edited by neverfading
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 I'm female, and I just *cannot* get on board with the people who find S1/S2 Howard to be a despicable or disgusting person.  I've think we've all known someone IRL who will say anything just to get a reaction, and that's sort of what Howard represents. People talk like he's this borderline-rapist, and I just don't see that, at all.

 

I find S1/S2 Howard very lovable and endearing.  Yes, he says and does things that are sleazy, inappropriate, and questionable. But I don't think he's anywhere near as repulsive, offensive, or objectionable as Penny considers him to be.  He's snarky and mischievous.

 

 

Welcome neverfading.

 

 

I totally agree with you, I'm female too and I was never offended by Howard. How could you be? It was a joke because he was so useless at wooing women! I found him loveable and endearing as well. I still like him but he's not as fun as he was.

 

"Haven’t you ever been told how beautiful you are in flawless Russian?" LOL!

Edited by Spaced_up

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Welcome neverfading.

 

 

I totally agree with you, I'm female too and I was never offended by Howard. How could you be? It was a joke because he was so useless at wooing women! I found him loveable and endearing as well. I still like him but he's not as fun as he was.

 

"Haven’t you ever been told how beautiful you are in flawless Russian?" LOL!

 

Thanks for the welcome and thanks for replying to my post, I was starting to think that these boards were kind of dead. 

 

"Haven't you ever been told how beautiful you are in flawless Russian?" LOL! 

 

LOL, yes,  such a great moment. And he sort of licks his lips right after he says it xD

 

 BTW, are you on Livejournal, at all?  I don't post much TBBT stuff there, because I'm really not a hardcore fan, but I'm always glad to find new fandom-friends to chat with, and Livejournal is a bit more sane than Tumblr,  or at least I'd like to think so. 

 

But yeah, the impression I got from this character was always "naughty and mischievous", not depraved or disturbing.  I hate, hate, hate the idea of him being married, but I know that issues of characterization are a very divisive topic on these boards, so I won't open up that particular can of worms again, right now. 

 

I live in Asia, where we're only up to Season 3 of this show in syndication, and that's fine by me. That one scene with the spider in the jar, though....holy crap, is that FUNNY!  I almost dare to say that it's on the same level of something from Seinfeld; that same spirit of total chaos: 

 

 

And remember: Sex criminals don't have keys!!!!!!!!

Edited by neverfading

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I also like the repeated lines about "I have a buddy at...." (fill in the blank with some location where Howard got some equipment through shady means)  xD  Howard has "connections"....

Edited by neverfading

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I like this picture a lot.  Somehow there is just something very special about it, something about his facial expression:

 

(click the thumbnail)

 

 

 

 

 

 

post-9652-0-04842600-1370489798_thumb.jp

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Thanks for contributing some pics!  I don't like the later episodes, but those pics are still funny. 

 

Funny, though, when I see Howard with a different hairstyle, I can't get over the feeling that I'm just looking at Simon Helberg, not Howard, since the hairstyle is such an integral part of this character. 

 

I can tell by your profile that your opinions/preferences are probably very different from mine, so I greatly appreciate you posting something friendly and agreeing to disagree. I mean that. 

 

Have a nice day! :)

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Since Bernadette has said she doesn't want children and Howard has said he does, he should volunteer for Big Brothers Big Sisters (or something to spend time with a child and be a mentor).

 

It would be funny to see Howard bring a 12-year old boy to do something fun and for Sheldon to ruin it somehow.

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Hi, everyone :) I'm new to this forum. Greetings! I'll try to express my opinions carefully, so that I don't piss too many people off, because I know this fandom has some very intense ship-wars and controversies and disagreements. Or, if I can't avoid pissing people off, then please just don't flame me too much :p

Please understand that when I talk about "people say XYZ" or "the fandom thinks XYZ", I am talking about fandom in general, and not necessarily any individuals on this board.

Anyway:

I love Howard, and I love Simon Helberg. I am one of those who prefer Seasons 1 and 2 and some parts of Season 3, and I'm really distressed by the change in tone and direction that the show took, after that. Here, you begin to see what I mean about disagreements and controversies ;)

I gotta say, Anomaly is my hero, because he has expressed many of the same thoughts I've had, and expressed them clearly and amusingly.

Here's the thing, though: it seems that I am GREATLY in the minority on this, but I don't think Season 1 and Season 2 Howard was *that* creepy. Or rather, Howard was always "creepy good, not creepy bad", as the saying goes :p

I'm female, and I just *cannot* get on board with the people who find S1/S2 Howard to be a despicable or disgusting person. I've think we've all known someone IRL who will say anything just to get a reaction, and that's sort of what Howard represents. People talk like he's this borderline-rapist, and I just don't see that, at all.

I find S1/S2 Howard very lovable and endearing. Yes, he says and does things that are sleazy, inappropriate, and questionable. But I don't think he's anywhere near as repulsive, offensive, or objectionable as Penny considers him to be. He's snarky and mischievous.

There are so many great things about S1/S2/S3 Howard's character. He's so enthusiastic, creative, witty, sarcastic, energetic, colorful, multi-talented. He has inventions. He has costumes. In that sense, he's like Q from the James Bond movies, always with some new invention or gadget. He has so many different interests and hobbies. He is a big personality in a small body.

If you watch those seasons again and really pay attention, much of the stuff Howard says is not explicitly sexual. Some of it is just plain strange, and some of it is genuinely cute and charming.

In the very earliest episodes, the impression I get is of this very strange young man who does not realize just how strange he is, like when he's on the train with Summer Glau and starts telling her about the bizarre dream he had.

People get all offended and bent out of shape about early-seasons Howard like they're personally being sexually harassed by him, but they forget that this is fiction. "I wouldn't want someone saying that to me in real life" is not the same as "I wouldn't want to hear someone say that in a TV show."

Here's an example: when Sheldon's twin sister Missy comes to visit, Howard says that he followed her from the parking lot into the building. That sounds like the behavior of a stalker, but Howard does it because he's fascinated by her and curious about her, not because he wants to harm her. He doesn't know how to approach her, and that's the whole point. These male characters have difficulty approaching women without some excessively-elaborate wacky scheme. He watches her from a distance because he literally doesn't know what else to do.

That's the whole point of this character: Howard is all talk. He is harmless. I don't believe for a second that he would ever harm a woman or do something truly malicious towards her. It's not like he walks up to Missy, grabs her, and says "Hey, wanna f*ck?"

People forget that Howard is also a very nervous character. Simon H. is really a brilliant actor, in this regard. He alternates between over-confidence and self-doubt. I have realized that my favorite fictional characters are very often the ones who alternate between being over-confident and under-confident, because I think that's a feeling we can all relate to. S1/S2 Howard was simultaneously very sexual and rather naïve. Yes, naïve. He's the one who says things like "Is it a boy-girl party?" He's like a teenager, in a lot of ways. People forget that Howard *talks* about sex a whole lot more than he actually experiences it.

Go back and watch that scene with the famous line about "I never joke about math or sex." Simon H's acting in that brief little moment is a mini-masterpiece. Look at his body-language. He expresses SO much about the character, in just a few seconds. Look at the way his fingers keep nervously plucking at the arm of the chair. He's very nervous, very hyperactive. His body-language is so uncomfortable, the way he almost lifts himself half-way out of the chair. We learn from this brief moment that Howard is simultaneously confident and self-doubting, brazen and uncertain. It's just really excellent acting.

I love the Horny Engineer ;) I don't need to see him change or "mature." I see so much vitriol in the fandom about "Oh, thank god we don't have to watch that disgusting pervert anymore, Howard is cute and cuddly, now." Then, I go back and watch S1/S2 and some parts of 3 and go "Really? You're disgusted by him? Are we watching the same character?" Because I was always charmed by this wickedly mischievous little man, and he doesn't repulse me in the slightest.

What is entertaining about watching someone be a "good person"? What is entertaining about watching someone "mature" and "grow"? What is entertaining about watching someone be sensible and cautious? The most entertaining characters are often the ones whose behavior is the most bizarre. I don't think anyone actually wants Cosmo Kramer bursting in their door, eating all their food, and getting them entangled in embarrassing mishaps, for example. But we like to watch it, on TV. There is nothing entertaining about "normal."

Yes, it's pretty vulgar to look at someone and say "My people invented circumcision. You're welcome!", but it's also just a hilariously random WTF type of moment. The question is not "Is this proper behavior"? The question is "Is this good television?"

TBH, I suspect some people are projecting their own negative experiences in the dating-world onto this character. If you're a female who has been hit-on by a lot of slimy guys, that's unfortunate, but it's not Howard's fault ;) At least he has magic tricks xD

If they wanted this character to be disgusting and repulsive, then it was a miscalculation to cast someone as charming as Helberg, because his natural likeability shines through.

Maybe I'm twisted, lol. Or maybe I'm just the Future Mrs. WolowitzTM. xD XD

So, even if you disagree with everything in my post, here's an awesome .GIF:

I love your comment about Howard being a big person in small body! He is my favorite character. 

I read lots of comments (mostly written by the type of feminists who consider the whole show to be sexist but still) accusing Howard of being mysoginistic, jerk, abusing women with his comments and pick up lines... I just never saw it that way.

First, I don't think Howard ever said something actually offensive. What he would say was his way of showing interest in a certain woman by complimenting on her physical feautures. It was often poorly worded but that was his way of showing interest, trying to start a conversation. One or two lines like that don't mean that he was seeing women as nothing else but sex objects and thought that their looks are the only thing good about them. Some women may interpert it as such, but almost anything somebody says can be considered an insult by a particular person, it depends on the person's mood, prior experiences, personality, ecetera. That doesn't mean that it was meant to be an insult, or that it could even be legally classified as such. I am sure that some women were offended by his pick up lines. Some were not get offended by that but simply found his appearence creepy and didn't give him a chance. And some found that appealing and gave him a chance. After all, he did get lucky a few times and I doubt that he would keep that tactic for years if it never worked. But there is no way he could've known what would happen, how would a person feel about that, before saying it first. Also, he would try that, say a few lines like that, and after making sure that particular woman he was hitting on wasn't interested, he would move on. The episode where he is hiting on Missy, as well as the one where he is going with Raj and Leonard to bar hoping to pick up woman, shows that. Also, after he would actually get a chance to go on a date with a woman, start a relationship with her, he was able to form it without making sleazy comments or solely basing it on sex. So his pick up lines were nothing more than a way to provoke a reaction or an interest from a woman he was interested in, not the way he was treating women all the time, his only way to communicate with them. Also, I believe that he was hitting on woman that way because A) he didn't know better since father abandoned him when he was little and, being a nerd, he obviously didn't have much friends with such experience either B) as revealed in The Killer Robot Instability, when he did try to be cute and romantic, it would get him nothing but humiliation and rejection. Also, as it was clearly shown in that episode and in the episode where Leslie broke up with him, and evident in his later relationship with Bernadette, that although he was very fond of sex and had nothing against one night stands and things like that, he actually wanted, liked being in an actual stable romantic relationship with another. 

The only exception was Penny. He really went too far with her, constantly hitting on her, to the point that it really was offensive and disrespectful, so her speech to him in The Killer Robot Instability was necessary-but only up to "growing old and dying alone" part! That was way too cruel and unnecessary. Not to mention the punch later. But still, he learned that he shouldn't treat her that way. And he improved a lot in later seasons, and his behavior, when actually wrong, wasn't shown as justified on the show. And him going too far with Penny is not a proof of him treating all the women that way. He probably wasn't even aware how much he was offending Penny (not that it makes it right).

About some people going as far to consider him a borderline rapist. Since sitcoms are TV shows where subjects like rape, misogyny etc. will probably never be discussed, sleazy pick up lines are as close to a sex crime or sexual harassment as it can get. But that doesn't make sitcom world the whole other world where that is the worst kind of sex crime possible, or a sex crime at all. It is still nothing more than a pick up line, often sleazy or poorly worded, bug just that. Only because sitcoms shy away from exploring such serious things doesn't mean that slightly wrong things that they do feature and explore should be seen as a a substitute for that, that Howard should be hurt or thrown into jail. There are many great non sitcom TV shows that managed to deal with such subjects in a mature manner, such as Elementary and Oz. Also, using sleazy pick up lines as a comic relief is not advocating mysogyny, especially when those lines are only used by Howard to provoke a reaction and are not funny because of the way they are adressed to women, but because of the shear randomness that they are. 

I agree that he would never hurt woman, or anyone else. Howard could have tried to take advantage of Penny when she was asleep in The Cooper-Hofstadter Polarization, but he didn't. He could have assaulted Stephanie when she was alone with him in the control room, but he didn't. As a Criminal Minds fan I can tell you that making sleazy pick up lines is not the warning sign that would point to an evolving sex offender. And when sex offenders do throw sleazy pick up lines at women,  they don't get depressed like Howard did in The Killer Robot Instability when a woman tells them off in an aggressive way like Penny did to Howard. They instead turn violent and in the best case throw just as bad insults back at her. So the ones who say that he is a borderline rapist don't have facts straight.

So, bottom line: Howard in early seasons was kinda sleazy, maybe even a pervert, and jerk at time, albeit mostly unitentionally, but not a creep and definitely not a borderline sex offender, and he doesn't deserve so much hateful comments that hundreds of people are posting about him all over the Internet, even now when he had improved.

But still, sorry to say this, but I like him now too, since he developed and grew...

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I could practically be any one of the four male Big Bang Theory main characters, but if I had to (randomly) choose which one of them I would be most like, I would choose Howard.

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Howard's mom is so big you need a forklift to dump her.

That sounds kinda distatsteful now.

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Blame the show, not me.

Blame the show? You do realize the actress has passed in real life?

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Blame the show? You do realize the actress has passed in real life?

I think that he was referring to numerous jokes about Mrs Wolowitz weight made throughout the show. Although I still think that it is wrong to make such a joke so soon after an an actress portraying her, as well as her character, passed away.
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Slightly off topic, but just to make clear, although I agree that Penny had to make clear to Howard that she was not interested in him, I was only with him up until the "grow old and die alone" bit. Everything that she did after that was just wrong. I don't and never will justify that, even less her breaking his nose later. But what brothers me the most how all of the sudden she unleashed such terror on him. Up until that point, she never specifically told him that his lines were making her uncomfortable or that she wanted him to stop-she said it once, very sarcastically. Up until The Killer Robot Instability, she would basically just roll her eyes at his comments or reply with a sarcastic comeback. Of course he couldn't understand that was her way of saying that she wasn't interested, that is the same kind of relationship that he has with his closest friends-they joke, put each other down, but are still friends. Up until that episode, she would respond to his hit ons the same way she would respond to Sheldon ranting about his rules, Leonard doing something awkward, etc. And yet, she was never that harsh with them (she broke Sheldon's nose but he was tresspassing and she never told him that he will grow old and die alone), not even with Raj who fooled her into believing that she slept with him and convinced her not to tell anyone, then bragged about it. That is, I think, one of the worst Penny moments-it did provide some character development to Howard, but the rest of the episode was just bad. I think that people who justify all of her actions in her episode-and often bash Howard in order to prove their point, and even call an attempted kiss a sexual assault-only see one side of the coin. Both Howard and Penny were wrong, but I think that Penny was more in wrong in that episode.

But again, they seemed to become almost a true friends by the season seven, so maybe I should just let this go. I think I proved my point after all, it just unsettles me that so many people don't see a bigger picture.

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Heck, some people even post comments saying that people who use creepy lines like Howard did don't deserve to be called human. In my opinion, anyone claiming that is hardly in a position to judge anyone.

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