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6.16 The Tangible Affection Proof (Feb. 14)


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This is Kunal's wife, a former Miss India.  Now what's this about him not being handsome enough to get Alex? 

Out of Respect to Kunal and his Mrs. I shall not state my first impressions of his wife. To put it simply and more politely she lacks all femininity to me, but then again my idea of The Perfect Female Form is more Victoria's Secret than this more traditional modern coat hanger runway. And of course personality matter much more than figure but his Mrs.'s figure doesn't do anything for me at all, not even aesthetically.

 

Raj is attractive enough to get a woman as pretty as Alex, but his ability to be an utter jerk at times is what would put off such a lady. After all the way he taunts the people in the Comic Book Shoppe as he walks out with a "date" is pretty asinine on his part. If I were to over hear such a comment it would not make me want to date him, even briefly.

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Raj’s history of being a jerk is really why its’ hard to cheer for the guy.    He might be good enough looking to get a
girl, but would you really want a boyfriend like him, I know I wouldn’t want a girlfriend with his personality and attitude.

 

Whenever he gets the smallest amount of success, he treats everyone around him as if they are crap.  Plus his actions in season four I still list as pretty sleazy.

 

Now granted Sheldon also treats people bad at times, but Raj is supposed to be this whole “I am the sensitive metro-sexual” guy.  Sheldon really doesn’t know better half the time, Raj does and really seems not to care.



 

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Raj goes from pushing the sensitive, sweetheart-guy angle to complete and utter jerk. Honestly I personally would prefer a boyfriend like Sheldon who is more than a bit clueless, being normally blunt and rude most of the time, yet in the end he is who he is giving a girl the ability to take him at face value, unlike Raj who pretends to be so nice and underneath is really an arsehole.

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Married With Children? Squabbling spouses goes back to I Love Lucy. By morphing the show into a standard romcom they now have 60 years of scripts to steal from.  And they're doing it.

What would your great alternative be? Returning Howard to the same old retread story lines of the hapless sleaze who wonders why he can't get a girl? There's a million of those guys in every sitcom and romcom ever done, too. You can find examples of pretty much every story ever back in the days of Shakespeare or the Greeks.

There's nothing new under the sun--people haven't really changed since people were invented. Love, hate, fear, joy, jealousy, deceipt, betrayal, triumph, loss, even geekiness--they've always been with us and have always been used in comedy and drama.

I can't up with an example off the top of my head, but I dare say there's probably a Sheldon and an Amy somewhere in the past.

The show was making use of standard comedy tropes from the beginning.

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Raj goes from pushing the sensitive, sweetheart-guy angle to complete and utter jerk. Honestly I personally would prefer a boyfriend like Sheldon who is more than a bit clueless, being normally blunt and rude most of the time, yet in the end he is who he is giving a girl the ability to take him at face value, unlike Raj who pretends to be so nice and underneath is really an arsehole.

I think they've gotten so used to using Raj for the unexpected punch line that his character has kind of been all over the place. I wonder if his asinine behavior might be put down to bravado, like Howard's behavior before he met Bernie. All the lewd comments he always made to Penny and almost every girl he met, thinking he was being sexy--well Raj has kind of fallen into that pattern. He's lonely and pathetic until he thinks he's got a girl, then he thinks he's God's gift.

But he seemed to be okay with the deaf girl, in terms of how he treated her. Though he was essentially buying her attention (the way Howard did with The Whore of Omaha), he didn't talk to her like a pimp or anything. I think it's all show because he doesn't have much experience.

I'm sure they'll mellow him out if they're going to try to give him an ongoing relationship.

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What would your great alternative be? Returning Howard to the same old retread story lines of the hapless sleaze who wonders why he can't get a girl? There's a million of those guys in every sitcom and romcom ever done, too. You can find examples of pretty much every story ever back in the days of Shakespeare or the Greeks.

There's nothing new under the sun--people haven't really changed since people were invented. Love, hate, fear, joy, jealousy, deceipt, betrayal, triumph, loss, even geekiness--they've always been with us and have always been used in comedy and drama.

I can't up with an example off the top of my head, but I dare say there's probably a Sheldon and an Amy somewhere in the past.

The show was making use of standard comedy tropes from the beginning.

I'm not creative enough to come up with ideas, but most of the H&B stories to me aren't funny, and not much more than an a rehash.  I'm not saying they need to reinvent the wheel, just make their version unique to TBBT.  I also think Bernie is best when she's ticked off, and it would better for the H&B storyline if the writers came up with ways to set of Bernie without belittling Howard. 

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I'm not creative enough to come up with ideas, but most of the H&B stories to me aren't funny, and not much more than an a rehash.  I'm not saying they need to reinvent the wheel, just make their version unique to TBBT.  I also think Bernie is best when she's ticked off, and it would better for the H&B storyline if the writers came up with ways to set of Bernie without belittling Howard. 

Exactly. The show used to find fresh, unique ways to approach stories. Now they just blatantly copy the past.

Edited by djvang

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What the hell.  Why does CBS let him do that?

 

At the moment because Lorre has three hit shows on CBS. He likes to throw sand in the faces of those who call him a sexist pig and this Vanity Card after the Valentine's Day episode of TBBT was a dump truck load. You can just hear him laughing at the placement there.

 

As long as he keeps his hands off the Penny character, no harm. His current writing staff is still trying to repair the damage he did to her at the end of  season 3 and all of season 4. Thankfully he has been keeping his mind on the salacious chaos that is Two and a Half Men where all the women are doing threesomes (including Jake's teenage partners), bisexual experimentation, drugs and oral sex just to keep the censors hopping. He also is preparing a new sitcom called "Mom". I pity the poor actresses in this one.

 

I dread him having some free time on his hands and ordering Steve Molaro to have Penny hooking on Sunset Blvd or starring in a Porn film.

Edited by BangerMain

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On the other hand, there is the following (Sarcasm warning for those who are sarcasm impaired):

http://www.chucklorre.com/index.php?p=398

Speaking as a man, the vanity card that BangerMain linked to doesn't show the man in a very good light either. It appears the woman is in the relationship only for the security and the guy is in the relationship only because he considers the woman a trophy. Neither individual's characteristics are very desirable, but that's hardly sexist, it's just a crappy relationship by very flawed people.

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On the other hand, there is the following (Sarcasm warning for those who are sarcasm impaired):

http://www.chucklorre.com/index.php?p=398

Speaking as a man, the vanity card that BangerMain linked to doesn't show the man in a very good light either. It appears the woman is in the relationship only for the security and the guy is in the relationship only because he considers the woman a trophy. Neither individual's characteristics are very desirable, but that's hardly sexist, it's just a crappy relationship by very flawed people.

That made me laugh SO hard!

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It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.  Shamy was spot on for the occassion, sweet, tender and honest.  The two characters at their worst is Penny and Raj.  Raj is a jerk when things start going his way, reminds me of the 30 under 30.  And I know I have said it before, but Penny is taking a page from Leonard's mom.  Leonard cannot get straight, caring affection from the two main women in his life, mom and girlfriend.  I call b/s on the committment issue of Penny, since she lived with the caveman form over two years.  The writers just pile on Leonard and trying to continue this uphill struggle for a normal female relation.  Howard and Bernie are doing just fine, the relationship still comes across as honest and caring. 

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On the other hand, there is the following (Sarcasm warning for those who are sarcasm impaired):

http://www.chucklorre.com/index.php?p=398

Speaking as a man, the vanity card that BangerMain linked to doesn't show the man in a very good light either. It appears the woman is in the relationship only for the security and the guy is in the relationship only because he considers the woman a trophy. Neither individual's characteristics are very desirable, but that's hardly sexist, it's just a crappy relationship by very flawed people.

 

I don't think Lorre is a sexist either (but for some fun reading, Google "Chuck Lorre Misogynist"). Politically, he is an old fashion 60's liberal and big supporter of the President. He has blamed, in interviews, his attitude about women on two bad marriages and several typical Hollywood hook-ups plus being writer or creator of several sitcoms with difficult female leads: Roseanne, Grace under Fire, Cybill and Dharma and Greg.

 

Lorre explains his jaundice history with his female stars in an early Vanity Card 245:

 

 "I decide getting on staff at Roseanne would be a great opportunity for me, even though every writer who had ever worked on the show had been fired. Four weeks into the job I deliver my first script and I'm almost fired. I create Grace Under Fire, realize what I'm in for and try to quit after pilot is picked up to series. I try to quit again during Christmas. A

few weeks later the Northridge earthquake hits. During a large aftershock I drop to my knees and pray for the sound stage to collapse and kill me. I think developing a new series starring Cybill Shepherd is a swell idea. The show is an instant hit. Cybill wants me to fire Lee Aronsohn because he's a misogynist. She's not wrong, but I jokingly tell her, "Why do you care? You're not a woman." She fires us both. I get the call not to come back to work on Yom Kippur from a Carsey-Werner  exec named Dirk Van De Bunt."

 

It was on creating Two and a Half Men with his "misogynist" pal Lee Aronsohn when Lorre has a little revenge fun. The women on the show are all bitches and bimbos and most of all users of men. When he created TBBT with Bill Prady the original female lead in the first pilot is such an extreme Lorre archetype that CBS refuses to pickup the series until Lorre changes the character in to the Penny that we remember from the first 2 and 2/3 seasons.

 

I think an alternative way to consider Lorre is as a former feminist whose idealism got shatter by some bad experiences with women. Yeah, I'll go with that. :icon_twisted:

Edited by BangerMain

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I don't think Lorre is a sexist either (but for some fun reading, Google "Chuck Lorre Misogynist"). Politically, he is an old fashion 60's liberal and big supporter of the President. 

 

snip....

 

 Lorre is as a former feminist whose idealism got shatter by some bad experiences with women. Yeah, I'll go with that. :icon_twisted:

 

Heheheheheh,  I'll buy all that and agree with you, except for the Dharma and Greg thing.  He's had nothing but positive things to say about the actors on that show and even the women characters were pretty chill, except for Greg's mother at the beginning, and they mellowed her.  I always find it interesting that Lorre takes a beating for all the problems he has with his female stars, but those problems were always with stars who had oversized egos or drug problems.  If he had so many problems with his female stars, he wouldn't have so many of them make appearances on his other shows.  For instance, all of the primary female characters, except the one played by Cybil Shepard, appeared in other shows run by Chuck Lorre.  All but one of the female stars of Dharma and Greg have appeared in other Lorre productions and that one (Mimi Kennedy) hasn't had anything bad to say about him.  As I've said elsewhere here, Lorre isn't a saint, has his problems and hangups, can be rather sarcastic in his written and verbal communication, but the evidence suggests he isn't the misogynistic, egomaniac, that hates the world as many try to make him out to be.

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Heheheheheh,  I'll buy all that and agree with you, except for the Dharma and Greg thing.  He's had nothing but positive things to say about the actors on that show and even the women characters were pretty chill, except for Greg's mother at the beginning, and they mellowed her.  I always find it interesting that Lorre takes a beating for all the problems he has with his female stars, but those problems were always with stars who had oversized egos or drug problems.  If he had so many problems with his female stars, he wouldn't have so many of them make appearances on his other shows.  For instance, all of the primary female characters, except the one played by Cybil Shepard, appeared in other shows run by Chuck Lorre.  All but one of the female stars of Dharma and Greg have appeared in other Lorre productions and that one (Mimi Kennedy) hasn't had anything bad to say about him.  As I've said elsewhere here, Lorre isn't a saint, has his problems and hangups, can be rather sarcastic in his written and verbal communication, but the evidence suggests he isn't the misogynistic, egomaniac, that hates the world as many try to make him out to be.

 

Thanks for catching the Dharma and Greg item that should not be mentioned in that context. I was listing that Lorre's previous shows before TAAHM were centered on women, a very admirable history indeed. That the first three female leads were all legit bat crap crazy was an unfortunate coincidence.

 

My problem with Lorre has to do with his reaction to the criticism level at him about TAAHM. Instead of showing that he is not the misogynist his portrayal of the female characters in the show would indicate, he doubled down on the negative characterizations just to inflame his critics. And of course, as a TBBT fan, what he ordered done to Penny at the end of season 3 was infuriating. As a producers with some serious feminist credentials, he seemed too ready to abandon his past history and give in to the 'darkside". He seems to revel in playing the devil now, poking at his critics. How much of this is just mischievous fun, I don't know.

 

I just don't want him using TBBT to make any points in his ongoing game. He kiddingly teased Steve Molaro about being "soft" with his caring approach to the characters this season but to his credit he has left him alone, as he should since Molaro's "let them be happy" method is paying off incredibly this year.

Edited by BangerMain

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I don’t think a person’s politics have anything to do with how they look at women.  Sorry too many
so called liberals have a history of treating women in their personal life badly.

 

I am not here to get into a political argument, but I consider myself a conservative politically and I love when women are portrayed as strong individuals with drive.

 

Granted I would never label myself a “feminist” simply because I have seen too many women who label themselves that as just as sexist as what they are attempting to fight.

 

Professionally I have worked for and with women over my career, the majority I respected, not because they were women, but due to the fact they were easy to work with and knew their jobs.

 

Sorry for the mini-rant.


As for what the producer did with Penny’s character, to me it really never made sense.  This is a sitcom not a soap opera drama.  In a sitcom you have to cheer for the characters and like them despite their flaws, after the Penny morph it was really hard to either like her or really cheer for her.  Especially after the Raj incident, which was creepy, and most importantly wasn’t funny.  But then again the humor in season four was too bitter for my taste.

 

Edited by Dbear12

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As for what the producer did with Penny’s character, to me it really never made sense.  This is a sitcom not a soap opera drama.  In a sitcom you have to cheer for the characters and like them despite their flaws, after the Penny morph it was really hard to either like her or really cheer for her.  Especially after the Raj incident, which was creepy, and most importantly wasn’t funny.  But then again the humor in season four was too bitter for my taste.

 

The genuis of Steve Molaro's approach this season is he recognized just what TBBT fans wanted and IMO they are not the same as all other sitcom fan bases. Your statement is fitting to what I believe the majority of the core fans like, to cheer for the characters and like them despite their flaws. RomCom drama was not what TBBT fans want to see. Releationship conflicts are natural in any story but season 6 keeps the drama short almost always within one episode. The characters learn something from the problems in certain episodes and move on slightly improved by the end. This is especilly true with Sheldon and Penny.

 

In TBBT the relationships serve the jokes not the other way around.

Edited by BangerMain
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