Are They Going To Have Sheldon Choose Amy Over Scientific Accomplishments?

[phantagrae]

LEONARD: Excuse me, but Einstein had a pretty busy sex life.

SHELDON: Yes, and he never unified gravity with the other forces! If he hadn't been such a hound dog, we'd all have time machines!

 

This is something Sheldon believes very strongly. He thinks people get stupider through having sex as well. This is something they will have to address this. When Amy and Sheldon finally have sex, they will have to have an episode about this. I have a feeling that the outcome will be to teach Sheldon this is not true, similar to Werewolf where he learnt a break in routine does not lead to chaos.

 

Maybe he thought, who cares? I'm not No.1 anymore anyway. Not an attitude we have seen from Sheldon before though, as far as I remember.

 

As for him choosing Amy over science. It did seem strange that after a conversation where he's still thinking sex is a distraction, that he then says 'it is possible'. I really don't know on that one either.

 

Just because Sheldon thinks something is true--that sex makes one less intellectual or less intelligent---doesn't mean that it is true.  And maybe if and when he and Amy do go all the way, he'll figure that out.  I do think that they can use that idea as something for him to fear or to deal with or to figure out.  But I don't think it means choosing Amy over science.

Maybe it's about reconcliing his preconceived ideas with reality.

 

Since he hasn't yet found Amy to be a distraction from his work (since he knows that whatever slip-up he had in his work was NOT due to any dalliances with Amy), I don't know that he would necessarily think that he would really be distracted by her if somewhere down the line they ever get there.  I think that though he was giving Penny an answer, the reality is still way down the line somewhere.  Whatever work he's been doing in his mind about getting over his phobias, it's very slow work as far as he's concerned.  He's been able to make some progress, but he still hasn't tried to initiate anything really sexual.

Perhaps part of working on the issue has to do with a fear of sexual distraction.  We don't really know at this point what it is that he's doing to work on his issues--visualization? fantasizing? Who knows?

[Ar Diem]

Has he chosen Amy over science because he thinks of sex as a distraction? Maybe. I'd have to think about that one. But I don't know that it matters if he can have his cake and eat it too.

 

 

I think it matters because he is willing to risk it which is a large deviation from his original character.  Since the writers are backing it up by having Kripke also believe that sex is a distraction is troubling.

 

Oh and to your other point, if he has been self-servicing all these years what does he fantasize about that has left him so clinical and child-like about sex?

[Slicknickshady]

No, Sheldon is going to choose Penny and they are going to have smart and beautiful babies...

 

- Delusional Shenny Shipper

[Ar Diem]

On the other hand, from what he says to Leonard and Alex and others, it seems he still considers that sex/romance can be a distraction. But he doesn't look at his relationship with Amy in that light. Why? Maybe because, like many things about himself, he considers his relationship with her to be an exception - an extension of himself, if you will - and so he's confident that it can't harm him in any way. Maybe he feels enough intellectual stimulation from their 'relationship of the mind' to know that it helps his work. Maybe he believes that even if he were to have sex with her some day, he wouldn't turn into a horn-dog - which, given all we've seen of him, is probably true. Maybe he's realized that 'going without' Amy would make him unhappy enough to hate his work, just as he realized at the time of Ramona Nowitzki that going without his hobbies makes him hate his work.

 

Still doesn't explain why he is working towards a physical relationship.  It would make more sense for him to believe that he is so great Amy would be satisfied within the terms of their relationship agreement.

[phantagrae]

Still doesn't explain why he is working towards a physical relationship.  It would make more sense for him to believe that he is so great Amy would be satisfied within the terms of their relationship agreement.

 

Maybe he just loves her enough to want to be able to touch her.

[Ar Diem]

I just really don't see the point now in this whole conversation. We are discussing assumptions and not evidence anymore. There is NO evidence on the show so far that Sheldon's work has been affected by his relationship with Amy, that Amy's work has been affected by her relationship with Sheldon (let alone that he is deliberately chipping away at her work!), that contemplating a sexual relationship means that they somehow care about work less or that the writers are even remotely hinting that that's going to happen. Yes, they can write that if they want to, but it's not inevitable let alone certain. So far, the whole relationships has been about Sheldon discovering that actually things aren't as bad as he thought. That's all. 

 

He has "slipped" plenty of times before. I don't see why suddenly this one is such a big deal, when he was working on a project he might not even have expertise in and when Leonard made it clear that being stuck comes with the job. Like I said, one of the things I loved about this episode is that it shows how even a genius can get stuck and come up short in science. Because that's how science works. 

 

 

We are discussing it because the writers have opened the door for it but really that is not the main topic of discussion.  The main topic is Sheldon choosing Amy over a potentially diminished career.

[Ar Diem]

Maybe he just loves her enough to want to be able to touch her.

 

He can touch her now.  Shoot.  He can even bathe her.  In this very episode he requested that she continue hugging him.

[Pomita]

Still doesn't explain why he is working towards a physical relationship.  It would make more sense for him to believe that he is so great Amy would be satisfied within the terms of their relationship agreement.

 

a) He sees that she needs more.

 

b ) His curiosity has been awakened, by the trust and connection he feels with her, to try a little experimentation himself - some day.

 

c) He is gradually feeling physical attraction towards her now, following their deep long-term emotional bond. He may be demi-sexual.

 

IMO, all of the above.

 

 The main topic is Sheldon choosing Amy over a potentially diminished career.

 

I stand by what I said - I don't think there's any indication that he thinks his career is going to be diminished because of her.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Pomita

[phantagrae]

We are discussing it because the writers have opened the door for it but really that is not the main topic of discussion.  The main topic is Sheldon choosing Amy over a potentially diminished career.

 

I think we've already addressed this question in the several posts above.  Since the idea of him actually making that choice is something that will have to wait on what path the writers choose, I think it's been taken about as far as it can go.  Either he sees sex with Amy as a possible distraction or he doesn't--so far the evidence seems to show that he does not consider her or sex with her as a distraction from his work because he seems to be working on what he would need to eventually go down that path.

 

That he let Kripke believe he had been distracted was simply a way to save face in the moment.

 

Beyond that, I think we've already speculated on the different possiblities, so what's the point in continuing to post the same things over and over?

[phantagrae]

He can touch her now.  Shoot.  He can even bathe her.  In this very episode he requested that she continue hugging him.

 

Touch her in a sexual way--kissing, handholding, hugging, etc., none of which he has initiated toward her.

Batheing her was akin to applying the Vapo-rub--clinical and non-sexual--apparently, in the way that Sheldon saw it.  He obviously didn't equate that with the kind of physical relationship that Penny was talking about.

[Ar Diem]

a) He sees that she needs more.

 

b ) His curiosity has been awakened, by the trust and connection he feels with her, to try a little experimentation himself - some day.

 

c) He is gradually feeling physical attraction towards her now, following their deep long-term emotional bond. He may be demi-sexual.

 

IMO, all of the above.

 

 

I stand by what I said - I don't think there's any indication that he thinks his career is going to be diminished because of her.

 

 

Even if all that were true which him identifying her need is a stretch,  there is every indication because he has said it over and over again.  What there is no evidence of is that he believes they will be an exception.  When he actually says it then you have a point.

[Ar Diem]

I think we've already addressed this question in the several posts above.  Since the idea of him actually making that choice is something that will have to wait on what path the writers choose, I think it's been taken about as far as it can go.  Either he sees sex with Amy as a possible distraction or he doesn't--so far the evidence seems to show that he does not consider her or sex with her as a distraction from his work because he seems to be working on what he would need to eventually go down that path.

 

That he let Kripke believe he had been distracted was simply a way to save face in the moment.

 

Beyond that, I think we've already speculated on the different possiblities, so what's the point in continuing to post the same things over and over?

 

So in other words I should shut up and let this thread die because you don't like where it leads.  This is the second time someone has tried to end the discussion. 

 

If you are done with it, fine.  I may want to post the same things over and over for a few more days.

[Pomita]

Even if all that were true which him identifying her need is a stretch,  there is every indication because he has said it over and over again.  What there is no evidence of is that he believes they will be an exception.  When he actually says it then you have a point.

 

Just the fact that he's happily going along with it, in fact doing everything he can to ensure that she stays in his life as a girlfriend, shows that he does not perceive any threat from her to his work and his love for science. If he did, it would be a much bigger deal for him to accept it, and we would probably have seen a meltdown as he tried to come to terms with this dichotomy. Because obviously his work matters as much to him now as it ever did (his face, when he talked of Kripke being better than him, was the most stricken we've ever seen him).

 

But I feel I'm repeating myself.

[Ar Diem]

Touch her in a sexual way--kissing, handholding, hugging, etc., none of which he has initiated toward her.

Batheing her was akin to applying the Vapo-rub--clinical and non-sexual--apparently, in the way that Sheldon saw it.  He obviously didn't equate that with the kind of physical relationship that Penny was talking about.

 

If the phobias no longer prevent him from touching her clinically why do they keep him from touching her romantically? If he had the desire to do it he would just push himself to do it as he has done before.  I can see where kissing and sex would be further down the road but he has been capable of hugging Penny for a long time.

[phantagrae]

So in other words I should shut up and let this thread die because you don't like where it leads.  This is the second time someone has tried to end the discussion. 

 

If you are done with it, fine.  I may want to post the same things over and over for a few more days.

 

Oh, for pete's sake.

 

I'm just saying that the question isn't llkely to be answered here because we're not in charge of the direction the writers are going to choose to go.  They could have Sheldon have a meltdown over everything, or they could have him reason his way through it or some combination of everything that has already been said here.

 

What more is there to say?

 

I'm not trying to end the thread but just wondering what there is left to say that hasn't been said.  But if you want to post the same thing over and over--and probably get the same replies over and over--no one is stopping you or telling you to let the thread die.

But don't expect that you're going to get any kind of definitive answer--unless, of course, you think you already have the definitive answer in the way you posed your original question.

[Ar Diem]

Just the fact that he's happily going along with it, in fact doing everything he can to ensure that she stays in his life as a girlfriend, shows that he does not perceive any threat from her to his work and his love for science. If he did, it would be a much bigger deal for him to accept it, and we would probably have seen a meltdown as he tried to come to terms with this dichotomy. Because obviously his work matters as much to him now as it ever did (his face, when he talked of Kripke being better than him, was the most stricken we've ever seen him).

 

But I feel I'm repeating myself.

 

 

You are and it is still just a convenient assumption.  It would have taken a single line in this episode to Leonard or Penny to confirm he believes he is an exception. 

[Moonbase]

If the phobias no longer prevent him from touching her clinically why do they keep him from touching her romantically? If he had the desire to do it he would just push himself to do it as he has done before.  I can see where kissing and sex would be further down the road but he has been capable of hugging Penny for a long time.

 

Hmm interesting point. I guess they are dragging this one out. He has bathed her, why can he not cuddle her? The writers are trying to keep Sheldon the same and move him forward in this relationship at the same time. It can't last, surely. And yes, he's been capable of hugging for over three years now.

[koops]

I think it matters because he is willing to risk it which is a large deviation from his original character.  Since the writers are backing it up by having Kripke also believe that sex is a distraction is troubling.

 

Oh and to your other point, if he has been self-servicing all these years what does he fantasize about that has left him so clinical and child-like about sex?

 

The writers were taking the piss of that cliche' by having Kripke believe that. Sheldon was incredibly cocky about his own work before he gave it to Kripke. If the writers had wanted to give the impression that Sheldon had been struggling with work they wouldn't have had him be so confident that his work was amazing and Kripke's work wasn't worth blank paper. 

 

As to your second point, one can be very repressed when it comes to expressing sexuality and have a low sex drive and still be turned on on occasion. Sexuality is extremely complex, it's not a black and white thing. Sheldon is very clinical and doesn't get slang and innuendoes and he has an absurd use of vocabulary when discussing it, but it was pointed out in the past that when he is the one initiating sex talk, or it's obvious, he gets it. Plus, whether it was an addition or not, it has been implied both in the pilot and in S5 that he masturbates. And he was planning to have a child with Amy in a test tube 4 months after meeting her. How was he going to do that? He probably doesn't have that many fantasies at all and it doesn't mean he's a secret Howard or even a Leonard, but obviously he must have done that at least occasionally. I think his recent revelation simply fits with the profile of someone who has a low sex drive, a lot of phobias, a general lack of interest in people and a stunted social development.

 

Also, I forgot to mention about the whole Egg Salad Equivalency thing. He actually never said to Alex that sex is a distraction in general, he said that if she feels amorous during working hours she should suppress it by looking at the book. Maybe he has recently started reconsidering the whole idea that it is a distraction, but that is should be relegated to out-of-office hours. 

 

And furthermore, he's been distracted at work tons of times. With Fun with Flags, with Raj and the desk, with Kripke numerous times... Yet the girlfriend is the issue, even though it doesn't seem to be an issue for him.

[phantagrae]

If the phobias no longer prevent him from touching her clinically why do they keep him from touching her romantically? If he had the desire to do it he would just push himself to do it as he has done before.  I can see where kissing and sex would be further down the road but he has been capable of hugging Penny for a long time.

 

Maybe because it would entail some element of desire, which he did not have for Penny (or Wil Wheaton, for that matter.)

 

He is able to be hugged and/or kissed by his mother, his sister, presumably his Meemaw, etc., but none of that involves an expression of romantic or sexual love.  Holding hands with Amy, outside the parameters he originally laid out in the RelAg, would constitute a display of a different kind of affection.

 

Also, the moments when he hugged Penny and Wil were moments of sudden emotion--the Nimoy napkin, the opportunity to go to the CERN supercollider, Wheaton's turnaround.  I think that in those moments he was moved quite suddenly with an overwhelming emotion and didn't have time to think about germs, etc.

 

But I think it would be an altogether different thing to take that step with Amy of physicalizing his love or affection or perhaps desire for her.  The medicinal care was a big step for him, as he admitted, but perhaps he was able to reason his way through that because of the clinical setting of it.

 

Giving Amy physical displays of affection or desire would also entail a different color to the act of touching.  He's obviously taking those baby steps in that he has allowed her to hold hands with him at the movies, but he admits that it still makes him uncomforable--but he's working on it.  He isn't yanking his hand away, but he's not completely comfortable with it.  He lets her hug him, but he's not hugging her back--and it's a combination of comfort and discomfort for him.

 

I know that for myself, touching is also kind of a mixed bag.  I'm definitely not a hugger.  I have a short list of people that I don't mind getting a hug from and almost all of them are family.  My bro-in-law always kisses me on the cheek when we say our hellos or goodbyes and I allow it, but it's not something I do myself.  I love my bro-in-law, but the kiss on the cheek always catches me a little off-guard--and he and my sister have been married for 20 years.  I kiss my kitties, but I don't kiss people.

 

So I think that the who and the why make all the difference in how and when he can touch people.

[Ar Diem]

But don't expect that you're going to get any kind of definitive answer--unless, of course, you think you already have the definitive answer in the way you posed your original question.

 

 

When I look at the episode as a whole I get the feeling that I am supposed to believe that not only will she be a distraction but that she already has been one but his feelings for her are so strong he is helpless.  Sacrifice is pretty common in romance writing.

 

The sacrifice has not been confirmed yet but the door is wide open for it.  It could be this episode was a test to see how the audience would respond so they danced around it.

[koops]

For someone who finds germs and considered sex, including exchanging of bodily fluids and saliva, messy and unsanitary, I think that there's a big difference between rubbing some Vaporub on her chest or giving her a bath and actually doing something with her. It's not going to happen overnight.

[Moonbase]

When I look at the episode as a whole I get the feeling that I am supposed to believe that not only will she be a distraction but that she already has been one but his feelings for her are so strong he is helpless.  Sacrifice is pretty common in romance writing.

 

The sacrifice has not been confirmed yet but the door is wide open for it.  It could be this episode was a test to see how the audience would respond so they danced around it.

 

I didn't like it because it diminished him. He's just like the other guys at the uni now, I no longer see him as the superior being. I don't think he sees himself that way now either. It was a decision made because he is vulnerable and deflated. Amy was his only comfort.

 

[Ar Diem]

Maybe because it would entail some element of desire, which he did not have for Penny (or Wil Wheaton, for that matter.)

 

He is able to be hugged and/or kissed by his mother, his sister, presumably his Meemaw, etc., but none of that involves an expression of romantic or sexual love.  Holding hands with Amy, outside the parameters he originally laid out in the RelAg, would constitute a display of a different kind of affection.

 

Also, the moments when he hugged Penny and Wil were moments of sudden emotion--the Nimoy napkin, the opportunity to go to the CERN supercollider, Wheaton's turnaround.  I think that in those moments he was moved quite suddenly with an overwhelming emotion and didn't have time to think about germs, etc.

 

But I think it would be an altogether different thing to take that step with Amy of physicalizing his love or affection or perhaps desire for her.  The medicinal care was a big step for him, as he admitted, but perhaps he was able to reason his way through that because of the clinical setting of it.

 

Giving Amy physical displays of affection or desire would also entail a different color to the act of touching.  He's obviously taking those baby steps in that he has allowed her to hold hands with him at the movies, but he admits that it still makes him uncomforable--but he's working on it.  He isn't yanking his hand away, but he's not completely comfortable with it.  He lets her hug him, but he's not hugging her back--and it's a combination of comfort and discomfort for him.

 

I know that for myself, touching is also kind of a mixed bag.  I'm definitely not a hugger.  I have a short list of people that I don't mind getting a hug from and almost all of them are family.  My bro-in-law always kisses me on the cheek when we say our hellos or goodbyes and I allow it, but it's not something I do myself.  I love my bro-in-law, but the kiss on the cheek always catches me a little off-guard--and he and my sister have been married for 20 years.  I kiss my kitties, but I don't kiss people.

 

So I think that the who and the why make all the difference in how and when he can touch people.

 

 

Apparently it is a mixed bag for him too.  He either has no desire to touch her physically but will do it if forced or he wants to do more than he is now but doesn't just force himself to do it until he gets more comfortable.

 

You can look at it every different way but the real answer is audience expectation and a believable character transition.  Once the audience accepts the new Sheldon and gets the feeling he is comfortable they will expect it to move more quickly towards sex.

[Ar Diem]

For someone who finds germs and considered sex, including exchanging of bodily fluids and saliva, messy and unsanitary, I think that there's a big difference between rubbing some Vaporub on her chest or giving her a bath and actually doing something with her. It's not going to happen overnight.

 

 

Who are you talking to?

[Ar Diem]

I didn't like it because it diminished him. He's just like the other guys at the uni now, I no longer see him as the superior being. I don't think he sees himself that way now either. It was a decision made because he is vulnerable and deflated. Amy was his only comfort.

 

 

That is the part that bothers me.  I know some people believe that they are doing this to stay true to the nature of science but that is not how they sold it.  No one was comforting him by saying this is how it goes in our field unless I just missed it. 

 

This has been a tough year for Sheldon.  His parking spot was given away, he was publicly humiliated for dressing up, and now he is not the top dog at the university anymore.