Episodes 6.17 The Monster Isolation (Feb. 21)

[Moonbase]

And if some guy were to suddenly start coming on to her she might actually get a little scared, since she's pretty much as inexperienced as Sheldon is.

 

Yeah I thought that once, but when she went out with the girls she suggested they get some men and have sex with them in the bathroom. So you never know...

[mjc45]

liked the knocking by sheldon in other parts

of the door.

 

good to see that howard had raj back with lucy.

wait to see how it works out--lucy

would like to see alex with raj.after all the planning

to b with her it is all gone.

 

penny look great in the play, and leonard was

proud of her.

 

 

(shenny fans)--sheldon did not want to go to her play,

amy save him. leonard had to tell take out all of

the games he had on him he did not want watch

the play. they would make a great pair

[phantagrae]

Yeah I thought that once, but when she went out with the girls she suggested they get some men and have sex with them in the bathroom. So you never know...

I think she's a lot of talk.

[Nogravitasatall]

Um, no.

I don't think Amy is in any way looking for any kind of alternative to Sheldon, certainly not at this point. I can maybe see Sheldon being jealous if Amy got some new research partner. I think that just like Leonard with Alex, she might be flattered at some male attention, but I don't think she'd be looking for an alternative to her "best boyfriend".

And if some guy were to suddenly start coming on to her she might actually get a little scared, since she's pretty much as inexperienced as Sheldon is.

But we've already seen Sheldon jealous of Stuart, so I don't know that they'd be interested in going down that path again.

I forgot about Stuart - but that was trivial IMO and Amy was playing Sheldon.

[Guest I'm not dead Cheryl]

Aha! I don't see any of the other characters in those roles myself. Leonard is no Stanley. To me, it's a moment just for Penny. I don't feel it's about the present, or Leonard. It's like she's being nostalgic, reflecting on her past and how it affected her. Just my take...

 

yeah totally agree,. None of the characters is anything like Stanley, or Stella. Penny is not like Blanche at all either. I think that's what they chose that particular part of the play, where Blanche remember how she was before she got all jaded by life.

[Nogravitasatall]

Aha! I don't see any of the other characters in those roles myself. Leonard is no Stanley. To me, it's a moment just for Penny. I don't feel it's about the present, or Leonard. It's like she's being nostalgic, reflecting on her past and how it affected her. Just my take...

 

 

yeah totally agree,. None of the characters is anything like Stanley, or Stella. Penny is not like Blanche at all either. I think that's what they chose that particular part of the play, where Blanche remember how she was before she got all jaded by life.

 

Agree too - Could not see it.  I was just gamin.  Except about the singlet. The dude works out. Give him his due. Penny could play the "I did make you cooler" card again.

[BangerMain]

I think she's a lot of talk.

 

Yes. Amy's comment about having sex in the club bathroom with strange men was the typical TBBT gag from out of nowhere that was only there because it seemed funny coming from her at that moment.

 

We have all learned as fans when to dismiss a joke when it has nothing to do with character continuity.

[Moonbase]

Yes. Amy's comment about having sex in the club bathroom with strange men was the typical TBBT gag from out of nowhere that was only there because it seemed funny coming from her at that moment.

 

We have all learned as fans when to dismiss a joke when it has nothing to do with character continuity.

 

Well, continuity and Amy don't quite fit in the same sentence, so I suppose it was.

[Ar Diem]

I disagree, working on oneself so that they can get to a place where they express love is an expression.  It shows that Sheldon cares enough to do something about it.  He could not care and say what the hell take it or leave it....I ain't changing.

 

 

I don't know what age you are but I think you should be careful saying these kinds of things around someone as young as HWRITS.  Luckily she is a very smart young woman.  Waiting for a partner to turn into someone that can properly express love is NOT okay.  If he eventually becomes what Amy deserves she can be in a relationship with him then but until then they should just be friends.  Again, the only reason this relationship seems to work is because it is completely fictional.

[Guest I'm not dead Cheryl]

I don't know what age you are but I think you should be careful saying these kinds of things around someone as young as HWRITS.  Luckily she is a very smart young woman.  Waiting for a partner to turn into someone that can properly express love is NOT okay.  If he eventually becomes what Amy deserves she can be in a relationship with him then but until then they should just be friends.  Again, the only reason this relationship seems to work is because it is completely fictional.

 

Amy has never expressed to he "waiting" for Sheldon to turn into someone to "properly express love" as you put it, whateaver you mean with that (because, I don't think there is just one way to "properly" express love).

Amy is on a relationship with him (or whateaver you wanna call it, because you don't seem to agree with that, because, too, you have certain definitions of the word that do not apply to them, again, for you) because she likes him, because she cares about him, and because she is attracted to him. Not because she is "waiting for him to change", she's not forcing him into anything and she certainly does not appear to be moping around or being unhappy with her relatonship with him. Does she sometimes wants something more out of him? hmm yes, of course she does. Does she get frustrated at times? Of course she does. We all at some point expect a bit more of our partner, it's called wanting to advance in the relationship, and we all get frustrated too sometimes, since well, no relationship is perfect. But then again, most of the time, she is quite happy with the way things are going. Just two weeks ago she got touched to tears with his gift. It probably felt stupid to you, but the she found it the most beautiful gift ever, and since the gift was for her, it's the only opinion that counts.

 

Sheldon certainly cares enough to be working on his issues regarding physical contact, and he is doing it it both for her and for himself.

 

I am a person with similar issues with physical contact as Sheldon, maybe even worse. It takes me a lot of work to even hug someone, and yet, that doesn't make me not "deserving" of a relationship? I would think my fiancee is quite happy with me though.

 

I think it's time to open your mind and realize that what you think it's the "proper" way to have a relationship or the ways you think a relationship should "work" might not be the same as other people's standards and stop trying to imply that there is something wrong with people that does not agree with your standards (which you have done several times on several posts).

Edited February 26, 2013 by Sursonica

[phantagrae]

I don't know what age you are but I think you should be careful saying these kinds of things around someone as young as HWRITS.  Luckily she is a very smart young woman.  Waiting for a partner to turn into someone that can properly express love is NOT okay.  If he eventually becomes what Amy deserves she can be in a relationship with him then but until then they should just be friends.  Again, the only reason this relationship seems to work is because it is completely fictional.

 

THere are all kinds of romantic relationships that have all kinds of expressions because love doesn't follow some clinical chart.

 

Amy loves Sheldon, quirks and issues and all.  In fact, she apparently finds a lot of his quirks endearing rather than frustrating or "rage-inducing", as she said in the apartment swap episode.

She loves him enough to understand his limitations and to work with them in order to do something unselfish for him.  And that she finds his "gift" to her so touching and moving shows that her standards for what constitutes an expression of affection are her own, and that she understands what it is that Sheldon has done in choosing her for that role.

 

A woman may fall in love with a man who is romance-impaired, who doesn't think of the standard romantic gestures, but that doesn't mean that their love is stunted.

It goes back to love languages.  One person may show and receive love one way, another person will show and receive it another way.  Physical touch, acts of service, gifts, words, etc.

Sheldon may still be figuring out what his love language is, but it's obviously not physical touch.  That doesn't mean that he will never be able to express affection through physical interaction, but it's probably never going to be his go-to means.  And he doesn't necessarily need to have love shown to him in that manner either--at least not just yet.  Again, he may find that it's not such a bad thing.

 

But for now, he shows love in gestures like the EC--by making Amy his EC, he's bringing her a little further into his life, in something of an intimate aspect, if you consider what illnesses and emergencies can amount to.  If he's hurt, he wants her there.  That's a big step for Sheldon, but a gesture of affection in his language.

 

Amy may talk a lot about the standard romantic gestures, but in the end, she realizes that what will be meaningful to Sheldon as a demonstration of affection is her willingness to not force him to do what everyone else might be expected to do, but to give him what he loves--the peace and privacy and controlled environment of his own home, his equivalent, if you will, of the best restaurant and the best date venue.

 

If they understand how to demonstrate affection toward each other, then who can judge that it's not a real relationship?

 

If two people understand and communicate love to each other, it doesn't have to fit some "standard" example of what is supposed to constitute a romantic relationship.  Love is expressed and received in many different ways.

[Moonbase]

Amy has never expressed to he "waiting" for Sheldon to turn into someone to "properly express love" as you put it, whateaver you mean with that (because, I don't think there is just one way to "properly" express love).

Amy is on a relationship with him (or whateaver you wanna call it, because you don't seem to agree with that, because, too, you have certain definitions of the word that do not apply to them, again, for you) because she likes him, because she cares about him, and because she is attracted to him. Not because she is "waiting for him to change", she's not forcing him into anything and she certainly does not appear to be moping around or being unhappy with her relatonship with him. Does she sometimes wants something more out of him? hmm yes, of course she does. We all at some point expect a bit more of our partner, it's called wanting to advance in the relationship. But then again, most of the time, she is quite happy with the way things are going. Just two weeks ago she got touched to tears with his gift. It probably felt stupid to you, but the she found it the most beautiful gift ever, and since the gift was for her, it's the only opinion that counts.

 

 

I do not agree at all. The vast majority of Amy's actions with Sheldon are manipulative. Every kind act she does, is a means to an end. Right from cooking him dinner to try and make him develop deeper feelings for her, to going to his office and licking his stapler to mark her territory. I can not believe that you can suggest that she is not waiting. She has a four year plan and it's obvious that's exactly what she is doing. The writers are suggesting that this plan is slowly working.

 

[Guest I'm not dead Cheryl]

I do not agree at all. The vast majority of Amy's actions with Sheldon are manipulative. Every kind act she does, is a means to an end. Right from cooking him dinner to try and make him develop deeper feelings for her, to going to his office and licking his stapler to mark her territory. I can not believe that you can suggest that she is not waiting. She has a four year plan and it's obvious that's exactly what she is doing. The writers are suggesting that this plan is slowly working.

 

 

I do not understand how her telling him to Sheldon straight up to his face what she wanted to do, what she was going to do, how she was going to do it, and what she expected to achieve and asking him for his consent (which he gave) is considered "manipulative".

 

And yes, the plan is working but is not that the writers are "suggesting it", Sheldon said so himself, because he knows about the plan, he knows what the plan is, and he even said to her to do it. His words were "her plan is working"

 

 

 

having a plan and executing it, is not "waiting" is taking action, and, to many of us, it is evident that Amy is the one in charge of the relationship and pretty confident on herself and Sheldon working out.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Sursonica

[phantagrae]

I do not agree at all. The vast majority of Amy's actions with Sheldon are manipulative. Every kind act she does, is a means to an end. Right from cooking him dinner to try and make him develop deeper feelings for her, to going to his office and licking his stapler to mark her territory. I can not believe that you can suggest that she is not waiting. She has a four year plan and it's obvious that's exactly what she is doing. The writers are suggesting that this plan is slowly working.

 

 

I guess every woman who ever made her boyfriend's favorite meal or did anything specifically to please him was being manipulative?  And every man who ever bought flowers or a necklace or whatever for his girlfriend or wife because it would please her was being manipulative?

 

As Sursonica pointed out, Amy told Sheldon that she wanted to increase his affection for her and he dismissed her intentions as poppycock and malarky.  SHe was trying to increase his affectionate feelings by making him happy.

Um, isn't that what EVERYONE does in one way or another in any relationship?  If you want someone to fall in love with you or to have stronger feelings for you, what do you do?  Act aloof and uncaring?  Sit around and hope something's going to happen?  Or do you show them affection by your words and actions?

They were already boyfriend/girlfriend, so it's not as if she's somehow forcing him to be with her or whatever.  He's the one who wanted to change the "paradigm" of their relationship--why would he do that if he didn't already have feelings for her?

[Ar Diem]

Amy has never expressed to he "waiting" for Sheldon to turn into someone to "properly express love" as you put it, whateaver you mean with that (because, I don't think there is just one way to "properly" express love).

Amy is on a relationship with him (or whateaver you wanna call it, because you don't seem to agree with that, because, too, you have certain definitions of the word that do not apply to them, again, for you) because she likes him, because she cares about him, and because she is attracted to him. Not because she is "waiting for him to change", she's not forcing him into anything and she certainly does not appear to be moping around or being unhappy with her relatonship with him.

 

Sheldon certainly cares enough to be working on his issues regarding physical contact, and he is doing it it both for her and for himself.

 

I am a person with similar issues with physical contact as Sheldon, maybe even worse. It takes me a lot of work to even hug someone, and yet, that doesn't make me not "deserving" of a relationship? I would think my fiancee is quite happy with me though.

 

I think it's time to open your mind and realize that what you think it's the "proper" way to have a relationship or the ways you think a relationship should "work" might not be the same as other people's standards and stop trying to imply that there is something wrong with people that does not agree with your standards (which you have done several times on several posts).

 

Having issues with physical contact would not be a deal breaker in an otherwise healthy relationship.  Even the notion that Amy could be satisfied with a partner that can't express how he feels without ripping off a movie,  shows no physical attraction to her,  does not respect what she does for a living,  and is largely immature and self-centered on top of his physical hangups is preposterous.  Of course she is waiting on him. She has even tried doing some behavioural modification on him.  Of course she wants more than she is getting.  Even most of the Shamys want them to do more together.

 

She just said she wanted a normal boyfriend. 

 

You need to stop putting yourself in the way of me commenting on a TV show and trying to get yourself offended.  What I say about them has nothing to do with you so just stop it.

[Moonbase]

I guess every woman who ever made her boyfriend's favorite meal or did anything specifically to please him was being manipulative?  And every man who ever bought flowers or a necklace or whatever for his girlfriend or wife because it would please her was being manipulative?

 

As Sursonica pointed out, Amy told Sheldon that she wanted to increase his affection for her and he dismissed her intentions as poppycock and malarky.  SHe was trying to increase his affectionate feelings by making him happy.

Um, isn't that what EVERYONE does in one way or another in any relationship?  If you want someone to fall in love with you or to have stronger feelings for you, what do you do?  Act aloof and uncaring?  Sit around and hope something's going to happen?  Or do you show them affection by your words and actions?

They were already boyfriend/girlfriend, so it's not as if she's somehow forcing him to be with her or whatever.  He's the one who wanted to change the "paradigm" of their relationship--why would he do that if he didn't already have feelings for her?

 

Amy didn't cook him a meal out of love, there was a purpose behind it. Just like when she lied to get him to touch her. Their whole relationship has been Amy making these moves to 'get him to treat her better' as she said to Penny. I thought when the shamy first started that we were going to get a adorable old fashioned romance, and I was a supporter of that. But it's not being written that way.

[Ar Diem]

I do not understand how her telling him to Sheldon straight up to his face what she wanted to do, what she was going to do, how she was going to do it, and what she expected to achieve and asking him for his consent (which he gave) is considered "manipulative".

 

And yes, the plan is working but is not that the writers are "suggesting it", Sheldon said so himself, because he knows about the plan, he knows what the plan is, and he even said to her to do it. His words were "her plan is working"

 

 

 

having a plan and executing it, is not "waiting" is taking action, and, to many of us, it is evident that Amy is the one in charge of the relationship and pretty confident on herself and Sheldon working out.

 

 

But according to you she is not waiting for him to change.  You can't have it both ways and that is what is wrong with the relationship.  We are not talking about him learning to pick up his socks or put the toilet seat down we are talking about a major overhaul.

 

ETA:  I didn't catch that last paragraph.  Having a plan to change your partner shows a dissatisfaction with where they are currently.  It still amounts to her waiting for him to become a proper boyfriend whether she is actively trying to help him along or not. 

Edited February 26, 2013 by Ar Diem

[Guest I'm not dead Cheryl]

Having issues with physical contact would not be a deal breaker in an otherwise healthy relationship.  Even the notion that Amy could be satisfied with a partner that can't express how he feels without ripping off a movie,  shows no physical attraction to her,  does not respect what she does for a living,  and is largely immature and self-centered on top of his physical hangups is preposterous.  Of course she is waiting on him. She has even tried doing some behavioural modification on him.  Of course she wants more than she is getting.  Even most of the Shamys want them to do more together.

 

She just said she wanted a normal boyfriend. 

 

You need to stop putting yourself in the way of me commenting on a TV show and trying to get yourself offended.  What I say about them has nothing to do with you so just stop it.

 

Oh, I wasn't offended in the slightest, I'm not like Bret, unlike many people here. BTW, this is Bret:

 

 

I am not Bret (even though i love Bret).

 

 

Now, some counterpoints:

- a partner that can't express how he feels without ripping off a movie: Hmm he only did that once, and he even told her it was from a movie. Other than that he has expressed, as much as he can his feelings for her. By taking care of her while she was sick. For a germophobe that's huge. And he didn't do it because of the agreement. His words were "because you are my girlfriend and I care about your well-being"

 

- shows no physical attraction to her - Hmmm, Star Trek roleplay anyone? He was in hell, as he admitted, he was having "affectionate feelings at innapropiate times", cue him fantasizing about her pale (naked) shoulders.

 

- does not respect what she does for a living: Don't you remember how he bragged about Amy's work in front of his mother? "there is great news on the Amy front, she's this close to getting a star-fish hooked on cocaine", how he said she was "a noted neurobiologist capabe of performing surgery on her own feet", and other examples, and I didn't even mentioned when he WORKED with her for a week, oh, I just did.. Now, yes, on TSTM he was rude about it, he was, but that was only 1 episode. In an interview Mayim said that the intention was to show he was "jealous" of her achievement. I know it didn't come across that way though, so we will not count it.

 

-he is largely immature and self-centered: yes he is, but, to be honest, Amy is too.

 

- She just said she wanted a normal boyfriend. yes she did, she yelled it to a couple of monkeys that were yelling to her after Sheldon stood up and left when he didn't understand her. It is called a "throwaway line" like when Sheldon said he was going to "cut Amy loose" but then indicated nothing of the sort, or when Penny said she should have picked Ernie, because "he just gave". But whateaver, you wanna take that as one, take it, but if you do, you also have to take "he's the best boyfriend" like that Amy also said.

[Ar Diem]

Oh, I wasn't offended in the slightest, I'm not like Bret, unlike many people here. BTW, this is Bret:

 

 

 

 

I am not Bret (even though i love Bret).

 

 

Now, some counterpoints:

- a partner that can't express how he feels without ripping off a movie: Hmm he only did that once, and he even told her it was from a movie. Other than that he has expressed, as much as he can his feelings for her. By taking care of her while she was sick. For a germophobe that's huge. And he didn't do it because of the agreement. His words were "because you are my girlfriend and I care about your well-being"

 

- shows no physical attraction to her - Hmmm, Star Trek roleplay anyone? He was in hell, as he admitted, he was having "affectionate feelings at innapropiate times", cue him fantasizing about her pale (naked) shoulders.

 

- does not respect what she does for a living: Don't you remember how he bragged about Amy's work in front of his mother? "there is great news on the Amy front, she's this close to getting a star-fish hooked on cocaine", how he said she was "a noted neurobiologist capabe of performing surgery on her own feet", and other examples, and I didn't even mentioned when he WORKED with her for a week, oh, I just did.. Now, yes, on TSTM he was rude about it, he was, but that was only 1 episode. In an interview Mayim said that the intention was to show he was "jealous" of her achievement. I know it didn't come across that way though, so we will not count it.

 

-he is largely immature and self-centered: yes he is, but, to be honest, Amy is too.

 

- She just said she wanted a normal boyfriend. yes she did, she yelled it to a couple of monkeys that were yelling to her after Sheldon stood up and left when he didn't understand her. It is called a "throwaway line" like when Sheldon said he was going to "cut Amy loose" but then indicated nothing of the sort, or when Penny said she should have picked Ernie, because "he just gave". But whateaver, you wanna take that as one, take it, but if you do, you also have to take "he's the best boyfriend" like that Amy also said.

 

 

He care enough about Penny and her well-being enough to care for her too when she needed it.

 

The end result of the star trek role playing was an insult to Amy unless you think it is okay for a boyfriend to be in hell for having affectionate feelings.  Besides you could just as easily say that was a throwaway line too.  It certainly does not fit in with how he is normally portrayed.

 

Maybe he does respect her work more now.  I do remember them ending their friendship over a dispute and when he ignored the recognition of her work.  That would be odd because Sheldon really only respects what he does for a living but I will concede the point.

 

I can accept that her line about wanting a normal boyfriend is a throwaway.  However, the fact that she is trying to change him suggests that he is not the best boyfriend.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Ar Diem

[phantagrae]

Amy didn't cook him a meal out of love, there was a purpose behind it. Just like when she lied to get him to touch her. Their whole relationship has been Amy making these moves to 'get him to treat her better' as she said to Penny. I thought when the shamy first started that we were going to get a adorable old fashioned romance, and I was a supporter of that. But it's not being written that way.

 

How do you know she didn't love him?  Even if she wanted to get him to transfer his positive feelings about the elements at the dinner to associating them with her, that doesn't preclude that she loves him as well.  What she did pleased him.  If she had set out to simply please him by cooking his favorite foods and playing his favorite music and serving his favorite pink beverage, how would it have been different?

 

If a woman knows her boyfriend loves lasagna, so she makes lasagna for him when he comes over for dinner, is it an act of love or an act of manipulation?  If he enjoys it and then is pleased with what she has done for him--making positive associations between his favorite food and being with her--then how is it different from Amy choosing things that she knows please Sheldon?

The only difference is that she talked about the process in terms of a scientific experiment.  Otherwise, the process is the same and the outcome is the same.

 

It's no accident that we have the saying that the way to a man's heart is through his stomach.

 

And Amy didn't lie to Sheldon to get him to touch her.  He took it upon himself to touch her, to volunteer to put Vapo-rub on her chest, even to bathe her.  Yes, she lied to continue it, because she found it pleasurable, but she didn't invent an illness just to get him to take care of her.  She had already closed the door on him.  He was the one who turned around and decided to take care of her and he's the one who decided what that care involved.

 

Of course she wants Sheldon to treat her "better"--whatever that may mean in the moment.  He's always been childish and self-centered and even when he took it upon himself--without prompting from Amy--to ask her to be his girlfriend, he wanted it to be all skewed to benefit himself, not her.  She has simply wanted him to be the boyfriend he says he is--and he's learning what that means and also beginning to understand the benefits of the relationship.

 

As far as old-fashioned romance between SHeldon and Amy is concerned--I don't see why anyone would expect any kind of "normal" romance to come out of Sheldon Cooper.  He may be old-fashioned in some ways, but he's only recently become interested in girls--or in Amy, specifically--and hasn't ever been traditionally romantic in any way.

[phantagrae]

He care enough about Penny and her well-being enough to care for her too when she needed it.

 

The end result of the star trek role playing was an insult to Amy unless you think it is okay for a boyfriend to be in hell for having affectionate feelings.  Besides you could just as easily say that was a throwaway line too.  It certainly does not fit in with how he is normally portrayed.

 

Maybe he does respect her work more now.  I do remember them ending their friendship over a dispute and when he ignored the recognition of her work.  That would be odd because Sheldon really only respects what he does for a living but I will concede the point.

 

I can accept that her line about wanting a normal boyfriend is a throwaway.  However, the fact that she is trying to change him suggests that he is not the best boyfriend.

 

When he took care of Penny with her dislocated shoulder, he had to be talked into it and he was kind of playing the "superhero", not because he cared about her well-being or because he was her boyfriend.  Yes, they're friends and he stepped up, but his care for Penny as a friend doesn't preclude his care for Amy as her boyfriend, which he explicitly stated as one of the reasons.  The other being that he cared about her well-being.

If the motivation coming straight from the horse's mouth isn't enough, then what is?   That he should have taken care of Amy just because he wanted to feel up her chest or see her naked in the tub?

He cares about her well-being and he's her boyfriend.

 

His line about being in hell ties back to the earlier conversation he had had with Leonard, where he had begun to realize that he was having affectionate feelings for Amy and it was a bit disturbing for him.  Not because he doesn't care about his girlfriend, but because it's all new to him and he's finding himself giving in to the feelings--picturing her pale shoulders, thinking about her when she's not around, being happy and pleased with what she's doing for him.  Of course he's going to exaggerate it because it's all new to him.

 

More important than him saying, "I'm in hell, Leonard" is his next line--"Don't stop."  That's the truth of the whole Shamy interaction in the episode.

Whatever confusion and distraction he may feel about these new feelings, he doesn't want her to stop.  At this point he may not yet be physically aroused (that we know of), but he is becoming emotionally and mentally aroused and it's a deliciously conflicting torment for him.

 

Every couple exerts some change on each other--whether it's as simple as the toilet seat or as important as handling finances or making important life decisions.  Becoming a couple is going to involve change and compromise for most people.  Rare is the relationship where each person is perfect and doesn't have to change.

Amy's line is no different than when my sister occasionally gets exasperated with her husband and quotes Fiddler on the Roof--"You could die from such a man!"

 

My bro-in-law made my sister a better housekeeper and she helped him get over a sometimes crippling sense of perfectionism.  Those things may not seem like much, but they're just a part of how they influenced each other as they became a couple.  Neither of them was perfect, each of them had things to learn about being a couple.  20 years later, they're a great couple, but they both had to change in order to please each other.

[Ar Diem]

How do you know she didn't love him?  Even if she wanted to get him to transfer his positive feelings about the elements at the dinner to associating them with her, that doesn't preclude that she loves him as well.  What she did pleased him.  If she had set out to simply please him by cooking his favorite foods and playing his favorite music and serving his favorite pink beverage, how would it have been different?

 

If a woman knows her boyfriend loves lasagna, so she makes lasagna for him when he comes over for dinner, is it an act of love or an act of manipulation?  If he enjoys it and then is pleased with what she has done for him--making positive associations between his favorite food and being with her--then how is it different from Amy choosing things that she knows please Sheldon?

The only difference is that she talked about the process in terms of a scientific experiment.  Otherwise, the process is the same and the outcome is the same.

 

 

 

 

I agree.  You can't really split those hairs.  You have to feed a relationship with expressions of love if you expect to get them returned.  It only looks worse with Shamy because he has to change so much in order to return them the way he should.

[phantagrae]

I agree.  You can't really split those hairs.  You have to feed a relationship with expressions of love if you expect to get them returned.  It only looks worse with Shamy because he has to change so much in order to return them the way he should.

 

Oh, I agree that he has a lot of change to accomplish.  But that's really what it's about with them--watching him learn what it means to be in such a relationship, how to learn to think of others (and he's been learning that in fits and starts throughout the show in regard to everyone else), and how to understand what it is he's begun to feel.

 

If he has set aside such feelings and kind of looked down his nose at it all, then suddenly finding himself beginning to feel these things is going to be shocking and difficult for him and in his case is going to involve a degree of denial and balking.  But I think that he's beginning to enjoy his relationship with Amy more and more, even if it's been in baby steps.

[Ar Diem]

When he took care of Penny with her dislocated shoulder, he had to be talked into it and he was kind of playing the "superhero", not because he cared about her well-being or because he was her boyfriend. 

 

Every couple exerts some change on each other--whether it's as simple as the toilet seat or as important as handling finances or making important life decisions.  Becoming a couple is going to involve change and compromise for most people.  Rare is the relationship where each person is perfect and doesn't have to change.

Amy's line is no different than when my sister occasionally gets exasperated with her husband and quotes Fiddler on the Roof--"You could die from such a man!"

 

My bro-in-law made my sister a better housekeeper and she helped him get over a sometimes crippling sense of perfectionism.  Those things may not seem like much, but they're just a part of how they influenced each other as they became a couple.  Neither of them was perfect, each of them had things to learn about being a couple.  20 years later, they're a great couple, but they both had to change in order to please each other.

 

 

Amy still had to argue her case before Sheldon eventually changed him mind to care for her.  While I grant you that sometimes you do have to ask for help in a relationship if your partner doesn't see it you shouldn't have to prompt them for just about everything.

 

One episode with a reference to physical attraction during her experiment is pretty bleak considering they have been together for 2 years.   Very recently he didn't even understand why she was parading through his apartment when he chose to play D&D so whatever progress she made didn't seem to stick.

 

Your sister and BiL changed and compromised (like most couples do) to establish harmony in their relationship.  Amy is trying to change Sheldon so that he can be a full participant in their relationship.  What she wants is an affectionate boyfriend that treats her the way she desires to be treated.  In 2 years he still hates the idea of going out on a Valentine's date with her and he still insults her.

 

You don't tell a 17 year old girl (even a smart one) that this relationship is anywhere close to healthy.  It only works because it is fictional.  In the real world their relationship is depressing and sad.

[tmp]

Amy still had to argue her case before Sheldon eventually changed him mind to care for her.  While I grant you that sometimes you do have to ask for help in a relationship if your partner doesn't see it you shouldn't have to prompt them for just about everything.

 

One episode with a reference to physical attraction during her experiment is pretty bleak considering they have been together for 2 years.   Very recently he didn't even understand why she was parading through his apartment when he chose to play D&D so whatever progress she made didn't seem to stick.

 

Your sister and BiL changed and compromised (like most couples do) to establish harmony in their relationship.  Amy is trying to change Sheldon so that he can be a full participant in their relationship.  What she wants is an affectionate boyfriend that treats her the way she desires to be treated.  In 2 years he still hates the idea of going out on a Valentine's date with her and he still insults her.

 

You don't tell a 17 year old girl (even a smart one) that this relationship is anywhere close to healthy.  It only works because it is fictional.  In the real world their relationship is depressing and sad.

 

 

No one here is her parent.  She's old enough to distinguish fact from fiction.  The world of fiction is rife with situations that work only because they're fictional, and people get that.  People (myself included) loved Frank and Marie Barrone on Everybody Loves Raymond, but in real life they would be absolutely unbearable rather than funny.  It's precisely because they are fantasy that people enjoy them.  Most people don't take it as seriously as you do.

 

Sursonica did not get in the way of you commenting on the show.  What you are doing is commenting not on the show but on anyone who likes (certain parts of) the show.  You make it personal, which is not civil.  Please don't try to keep people from enjoying part of the show just because you disagree with it.  For heaven's sake, please be civil and stop turning every conversation into what's wrong with people who like the Sheldon/Amy relationship.  There are threads that are created for that conversation.  Please, can't this adjourn to one of those threads so that we may discuss the episode in this one?

Edited February 26, 2013 by tmp