Episodes 6.17 The Monster Isolation (Feb. 21)

[Justin Christopher]

 Thought I was the only night owl here. I respond to one person, someone else pops up. LLata (I'm stopping there) I don't cap a WHOLE sentence, let alone a whole paragraph. Think of my style as Louis Black if it helps, he played the just - fired bug hugger in the episode about the snowy cricket. I try not to speak in a complete MONOTONE, or type that way. I just like to EMPHASISE a word HERE or THERE, lol.

[Nogravitasatall]

Oh, and I forgot. Gay Christians are a real thing. It sort of depends on how your church views the bible as to how you feel about that. The church of which my father was a lay preacher for 60 years had a lesbian Moderator for several years. Its probably the fourth largest christian faith in Oz. They generally read the bible as a book of its time - but that's probably irrelevant as the show is pretty secular.

I enjoy the dilemma Sheldon has with communicating with his mum about these issues.

EDT. I'm just walking home from work, still in daylight

Edited March 1, 2013 by Llatasativargon

[annieogly]

Wondering if your gay friends would be offended by your phrase "gay juice"....

 

I could be wrong, but I have not heard any gay jokes on TBBT that were disparaging or mean spirited.  The show does use these innuendo a lot, and it could just be Mr. Lorre's brand of humor.

 

I get what your saying about Star Wars, which I love, but do not care for 10 year old Anakin or Jar Jar, although I'm not quite sure how that relates to African Americans.  I like the Ewoks though.  They are cute.

 

@Justin

Wow I'm gay, a lesbian actually, and the show never makes mean-spirited gay jokes. Amy's attraction to Penny was more an adolescent girl crush than anything, if you want to give it a label it's bisexual as lesbians are not attracted to men and Amy was to Zack, Sheldon and supposed males in the club. And FYI, having a same-sex attraction is natural, meaning it's found in nature (all the time and yes humans are animals). If your religious views don't approve, fine, keep it to yourself and don't go and have sex with a man.

Edited March 1, 2013 by annieogly

[Justin Christopher]

 Wow, never is as much a cop- out as always (just ask Leonard), animals don't build skyscrapers and land on the moon, a forum is for the sharing of ideas, I don't know that it is natural, I'm standing up for gays, not bashing them, and why should I be told to keep anything to myself? I won't condescend to you in a similar fashion. I agree with Sheldon's mom on the whole we are not apes issue. But I don't need to be dogmatic about it on this particular forum. Really, nothing mean spirited? Reaaallly? How about the way they have written Raj, most notably in the last 2 seasons? OK, we're going to just have to agree to disagree, and maybe I don't get the whole Amy thing. I'll give you that. But Amy was what, mid twenties? I thought girl crushes happened in the teens. I may not be a girl, but I dated enough to know a few things. And let's not forget how asexual she was presented at first, then she's girl crush'n, and now she's pining for the Sheldon. I just don't think the writers knew what they wanted to do with her. And I don't like that. That's what killed Heroes, bad/ inconsistant writing, another show with a great premise and cast. Anything I say is because I love the show, and don't want to see it go downhill (like the show that follows it).

[Nogravitasatall]

Wow, never is as much a cop- out as always (just ask Leonard), animals don't build skyscrapers and land on the moon, a forum is for the sharing of ideas, I don't know that it is natural, I'm standing up for gays, not bashing them, and why should I be told to keep anything to myself? I won't condescend to you in a similar fashion. I agree with Sheldon's mom on the whole we are not apes issue. But I don't need to be dogmatic about it on this particular forum. Really, nothing mean spirited? Reaaallly? How about the way they have written Raj, most notably in the last 2 seasons? OK, we're going to just have to agree to disagree, and maybe I don't get the whole Amy thing. I'll give you that. But Amy was what, mid twenties? I thought girl crushes happened in the teens. I may not be a girl, but I dated enough to know a few things. And let's not forget how asexual she was presented at first, then she's girl crush'n, and now she's pining for the Sheldon. I just don't think the writers knew what they wanted to do with her. And I don't like that. That's what killed Heroes, bad/ inconsistant writing, another show with a great premise and cast. Anything I say is because I love the show, and don't want to see it go downhill (like the show that follows it).

One last thing , maybe not really the last thing, but lets say last for now, because you did ask.

I've found it helpful to use the return key for spacing your paragraphs. It gets distracting and difficult to read presented en bloc. Some wont bother to read if its too hard to parse out your message. Perhaps it's your tech.

Onwards.

Raj has been written as an ass (let's say I mean donkey), and this is consistent from when he started talking and drinking. Howard says this to Penny at one stage. When he does speak he spews misogynist crap that affronts many, or me at least. I think they play this against his metrosexual appearance.

Amy had no friends and no adolescence. She has been rushed through her teens in front of us... Hence all the female rites of passage, eg drinking, waxing, makeup. So the girl crush has credence.

Heroes died because... Well I don't know. I enjoyed the reveals of the mutant talents but they still died. No idea what happened.

And condescension is a loaded term. I think annieogly has a stake in responding. It's not a trivial choice to be true to yourself.

Post script.

I just noticed that you said you agree with Sheldons mother about us not being apes. See, I missed that because it was buried in your text.

I'd keep quiet on that here. It's a little bit odd in my opinion.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Llatasativargon

[The God Particle]

So TBBT has gone all Doctor Who on us with The Dreaded "Gay Agenda"? I'm sorry but that is just beyond ridiculous!

[Moonbase]

So TBBT has gone all Doctor Who on us with The Dreaded "Gay Agenda"? I'm sorry but that is just beyond ridiculous!

 

I didn't see any gay agenda stuff on the Dr Who forum... hmmm, between whom?

[The God Particle]

*Laughs* You don't recall those days when RTD was in charge? Every time a line could be taken as love for the same gender yet another Thread popped up about RTD's "Gay Agenda". No matter how many times it was pointed out that The Moff was the most likely the man behind the line or tease.

(Speaking of Gallifrey Base here.)

Sorry but it amuses me yet.

[Moonbase]

*Laughs* You don't recall those days when RTD was in charge? Every time a line could be taken as love for the same gender yet another Thread popped up about RTD's "Gay Agenda". No matter how many times it was pointed out that The Moff was the most likely the man behind the line or tease.

(Speaking of Gallifrey Base here.)

Sorry but it amuses me yet.

 

Oh, I haven't been on Gallifrey Base. Missed all that action

 

Edit: shesh my dyslexia is so bad today. extra editing needed...

Edited March 1, 2013 by Moonbase

[vasu]

I thought it would have been much better if the monkey was actually shown doing all those things Amy was mentioning......because from what we saw, clearly none of those things were actually happening...

 

they already had a smoking monkey on the show......don't they access to it now ??

[AdorkablyMe]

Being apart of the LGBTQ community rocks \m/ as did this episode :D

[Tensor]

Being apart of the LGBTQ community rocks \m/ as did this episode :D

Yes it does, just don't forget the "A" (in my case Ally) added to the end.

@Justin, if Annie says she's not offended, then as a out member of the LBGTQIA community and long time poster here, I'd tend to go with her opinion. Her and I rarely see eye to eye on shipping issues, but I trust her on this issue and her lack of offense matches that of my gay theatre friends who watch the show.

[AdorkablyMe]

Yeah, I'm a lesbian, and have never once been offended by the jokes on the show.

[Ar Diem]

I guess this is what happens when we have to skip a week in between episodes.

 

To try and steer back to topic...

 

 

I have to ask.  Why is it that Amy forced Sheldon to not only compliment Penny but also attend her play when just one week ago she let him out of an outing that she also knew he hated?

[Guest I'm not dead Cheryl]

I guess this is what happens when we have to skip a week in between episodes.

 

To try and steer back to topic...

 

 

I have to ask.  Why is it that Amy forced Sheldon to not only compliment Penny but also attend her play when just one week ago she let him out of an outing that she also knew he hated?

 

Because Penny is their friend, and you support your friends. Their date was between them and no one else, those are two different situations.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Sursonica

[Pomita]

Also, her letting him out of the V-day outing was her V-day gift to him - to join him in enjoying that day in his way. That doesn't mean Sheldon will never be called upon to follow any non-optional social conventions - he's always had to do that sometimes, for his friends. 

[Ar Diem]

Because Penny is their friend, and you support your friends. Their date was between them and no one else, those are two different situations.

 

 

But didn't she force the issue on their 1st year anniversary?  Also, wouldn't it be more scientific for her to keep forcing him into romantic situations if he is ever going to be comfortable in them?  It just seems like another continuity error. 

 

How is anyone supposed to measure their progress?  His views in Egg Salad were clearly still anti-sex but in Cooper/Kripke he says it is a possibility.  He accepted her hug in Cooper/Kripke but considered it in Tangible to be ruining the evening.  Her actions in the anniversary episode are contrary to the VD episode.

 

The only recent progress I can remember was in Fish guts but even that experience did not help him accept her hug in Tangible.  Shouldn't we see their romance building from that point because Tangible to me looks like he is back to square one.  And no I don't believe that a woman who has studied Sheldon enough to perform experiments on him would fail to realize that the EC gift was a bum deal for her.  That is another continuity error or a bad joke.  Even if you believe that she was really swooning over it, it was clear by the end of the episode that she realized what it really meant. 

 

Everyone keeps talking about their "slow" progress but if I accept the most recent epsiodes as evidence of where he is I am not seeing it.  I see a couple that enjoys spending time together much like 2 really good friends.

[BangerMain]

But didn't she force the issue on their 1st year anniversary?  Also, wouldn't it be more scientific for her to keep forcing him into romantic situations if he is ever going to be comfortable in them?  It just seems like another continuity error. 

 

How is anyone supposed to measure their progress?  His views in Egg Salad were clearly still anti-sex but in Cooper/Kripke he says it is a possibility.  He accepted her hug in Cooper/Kripke but considered it in Tangible to be ruining the evening.  Her actions in the anniversary episode are contrary to the VD episode.

 

The only recent progress I can remember was in Fish guts but even that experience did not help him accept her hug in Tangible.  Shouldn't we see their romance building from that point because Tangible to me looks like he is back to square one.  And no I don't believe that a woman who has studied Sheldon enough to perform experiments on him would fail to realize that the EC gift was a bum deal for her.  That is another continuity error or a bad joke.  Even if you believe that she was really swooning over it, it was clear by the end of the episode that she realized what it really meant. 

 

Everyone keeps talking about their "slow" progress but if I accept the most recent epsiodes as evidence of where he is I am not seeing it.  I see a couple that enjoys spending time together much like 2 really good friends.

 

The writers seem to be in quandary about how to show progress in the Sheldon/Amy relationship. Amy makes progress in her approach to Sheldon but he seems to advance and retreat according to the needs of the episode. I'm with you, the net sum seems to be zero.

 

Sheldon talks about wanting to put in submission his phobia about touching but in practice he seems to have gone back to his point at the start of the season in the most recent episode. He compromised on the costume for the Halloween episode then kept Amy's gift for him self on Valentine's day. Little of his "progress" seems to last for long.

 

There must be some change in Sheldon's behavior that is consistent that I'm missing but I can't see what it is..

Edited March 2, 2013 by BangerMain

[Ar Diem]

The writers seem to be in quandary about how to show progress in the Sheldon/Amy relationship. Amy makes progress in her approach to Sheldon but he seems to advance and retreat according to the needs of the episode. I'm with you, the net sum seems to be zero.

 

Sheldon talks about wanting to put in submission his phobia about touching but in practice he seems to have gone back to his point at the start of the season in the most recent episode. He compromised on the costume for the Halloween episode then kept Amy's gift for him self on Valentine's day. Little of his "progress" seems to last for long.

 

There must be some change in Sheldon's behavior that is consistent that I'm missing but I can't see what it is..

 

That is exactly what I see.   They are so afraid to really change Sheldon that his advancements in the relationship seem to only last for an episode.  He found her some version of sexually appealing in an episode last season and this season there has been no sign of it.  In fact, in the Christmas epsiode the joke was he couldn't understand why she was catwalking.  In parking spot he thought her display of extra skin was a result of huffing fumes.

 

What I see is that occasionally she may win a battle but he is winning the war... at least for right now.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Ar Diem

[Moonbase]

Me too. When you have great Sheldon quotes like these, you can see their problem.

 

"Given how much time you spend engaging in pointless self-abuse, you might consider, just this once, using your genitalia to actually accomplish something!"

"Please let me know when you and your girlfriend are done hogging the bandwidth for your self-abuse. I’m trying to stream a movie on Netflix in here"

These aren't even Season 1-3 quotes. They are Season 4 and 5. How will this look in retrospect? It's a quandary for sure...

Edited March 2, 2013 by Moonbase

[vasu]

Me too. When you have great Sheldon quotes like these, you can see their problem.

 

"Given how much time you spend engaging in pointless self-abuse, you might consider, just this once, using your genitalia to actually accomplish something!"

"Please let me know when you and your girlfriend are done hogging the bandwidth for your self-abuse. I’m trying to stream a movie on Netflix in here"

These aren't even Season 1-3 quotes. They are Season 4 and 5. How will this look in retrospect? It's a quandary for sure...

 

Sheldon is a selfish guy...he changes his opinions according to its benefits and his happiness...

 

In the basket-ball episode , he calls dibs on the office while talking to the guys and then when kripke calls dibs he gives some long ass explanation about how dibs does not work...

In fish guts he tells Amy that their relationship is based on trust and mutual respect when she lies to him....but he does the exact thing to her in spoiler alert....

 

So probably Sheldon finds things he found disgusting before likable now... he is probably changing his views again so that they would suit him.........

 

I would certainly like to see an episode after Sheldon makes the inevitable physical gesture to Amy ....where the guys mock the hell out of him.....,given the amount of times he has mocked them over the series....

Edited March 2, 2013 by vasu

[Moonbase]

Sheldon is a selfish guy...he changes his opinions according to its benefits and his happiness...

 

In the basket-ball episode , he calls dibs on the office while talking to the guys and then when kripke calls dibs he gives some long ass explanation about how dibs does not work...

In fish guts he tells Amy that their relationship is based on trust and mutual respect when she lies to him....but he does the exact thing to her in spoiler alert....

 

So probably Sheldon finds things he found disgusting before likable now... he is probably changing his views again so that they would suit him.........

 

I would certainly like to see an episode after Sheldon makes the inevitable physical gesture to Amy ....where the guys mock the hell out of him.....,given the amount of times he has mocked them over the series....

 

I do enjoy Leonard getting the better of him sometimes. 

 

I wouldn't be friends with Sheldon, he says things no one could ever get away with. But that's why it's funny. No one would ever attempt it in real life. The arrogance is part of the characters humour. None of the other characters use sarcasm to such extremes. It's very Sheldon specific and adds so much to the show. They changed Howard (I loved the old Howard btw) but they could afford to get away with it because they still had Sheldon. Its a tricky path to take.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Moonbase

[BangerMain]

I do enjoy Leonard getting the better of him sometimes. 

 

I wouldn't be friends with Sheldon, he says things no one could ever get away with. But that's why it's funny. No one would ever attempt it in real life. The arrogance is part of the characters humour. None of the other characters use sarcasm to such extremes. It's very Sheldon specific and adds so much to the show. They changed Howard (I loved the old Howard btw) but they could afford to get away with it because they still had Sheldon. Its a tricky path to take.

 

It's obvious that the writers know how to make changes consistent in the characters. As you pointed out, Howard changed for Bernadette. Heaven knows,the Penny character has been completely rebuilt this season and Leonard slightly altered to compliment her changes.

 

They maybe wary of getting rid of the worst traits of Sheldon because they are so funny. He's as unique a collection of quirks as has ever been shown on American TV. In real life, Sheldon would be pretty much a hermit as most sane people would stay as far away from him as possible since he offers no immediate benefit to have as an acquaintance, much less a friend.

 

TPTB are still trying to figure out how they are going to make the migration to Sheldon 2.0 and they appear to "reboot" him constantly.

Edited March 3, 2013 by BangerMain

[Ar Diem]

It's obvious that the writers know how to make changes consistent in the characters. As you pointed out, Howard changed for Bernadette. Heaven knows,the Penny character has been completely rebuilt this season and Leonard slightly altered to compliment her changes.

 

They maybe wary of getting rid of the worst traits of Sheldon because they are so funny. He's as unique a collection of quirks as has ever been shown on American TV. In real life, Sheldon would be pretty much a hermit as most sane people would stay as far away from him as possible since he offers no immediate benefit to have as an acquaintance, much less a friend.

 

TPTB are still trying to figure out how they are going to make the migration to Sheldon 2.0 and they appear to "reboot" him constantly.

 

 

Which begs this question are they ever going to have him make sustained progress in S/A relationship?  Your analogy is spot on.  He occasionally gets a glitch in his software that causes a desire or tolerance for romance and they reboot him back to the Sheldon that basically just signed the RelAg.

 

That is why it is so easy to forget about the episode where she performed an experiment and got favorable results because they never built on it.  They just rebooted him and since then there has been no further sign that he has any physical attraction to her.  I cannot even say with any certainty that he would care for her again if she was ill if it gets in the way of a joke.

[annieogly]

Which begs this question are they ever going to have him make sustained progress in S/A relationship?  Your analogy is spot on.  He occasionally gets a glitch in his software that causes a desire or tolerance for romance and they reboot him back to the Sheldon that basically just signed the RelAg.

 

That is why it is so easy to forget about the episode where she performed an experiment and got favorable results because they never built on it.  They just rebooted him and since then there has been no further sign that he has any physical attraction to her.  I cannot even say with any certainty that he would care for her again if she was ill if it gets in the way of a joke.

 

In the fall-winter I thought with the Raj episode that they were building up to Amy wanting sex, Sheldon resisting and having her dump him (not forever). Doug and I discussed this as it would parallel Penny-Leonard, with Leonard dumping Penny for Alex. Then Doug said with the problems with 2 1/2 Men the writers might avoid all that and stick to safety. And I think that's the case so far, which is why it's so bumpy as the writers are really making it up as they go along; it's totally incoherent as you've all pointed out so well. Doug thought that Alex might be kept for the season finale, and I think that's the case as she's still in the show but really serves no purpose in the episodes. I have no clue what Sheldon-Amy will do...