How Did We End Up Here? And Where Is Here, Exactly?

[rubyanjel]

I am not sure Racy will be important enough by the finale to base it on them too much. 

 

Between Egg Salad and now Shamy has been all over the place.  I do not think we will see Sheldon initiate a romantic gesture until conflict has been introduced.  Maybe Amy gets offered a job somewhere else or Sheldon breaks up with her for her own good.

 

Lenny is on track for a proposal and IMO it is going to happen sometime soon even if not this season.

 

Howardette is so sitcom/romcom mechanical I really don't care what they do there unless it ends in divorce.  I take that back if they sent her to prison for some reason that might interest me.

Hi AR!

Reading this right now is quite funny and interesting because they just mentioned that Raj and Lucy will be part of the finale.

 

 

As for torturing my kind, I actually don't want to use my brain too much in predicting the "future" of this relationship. Somewhere in my mind I know they're endgame (as they call it) anyway and somewhat I must be a masochist because if the others are now hurting, then I actually like it. It's like I'm just an inch away from falling off a cliff.

[Ar Diem]

Hi AR!

Reading this right now is quite funny and interesting because they just mentioned that Raj and Lucy will be part of the finale.

 

 

As for torturing my kind, I actually don't want to use my brain too much in predicting the "future" of this relationship. Somewhere in my mind I know they're endgame (as they call it) anyway and somewhat I must be a masochist because if the others are now hurting, then I actually like it. It's like I'm just an inch away from falling off a cliff.

 

Hi JA!

 

I didn't realize Racy was going to be in the finale.  I am still not sure they are important enough for me to care but they still have a few episodes to raise Racy's stock.

 

Unless this is her last season I think you can take solace in the fact that the writers don't even know their endgame yet.  If you were talking about Shamy anyone's guess is as good as mine.  Even in a safe season they need to end on a high note.

 

I wish I could have had you on a hotseat.  Your brain interests me.

[phantagrae]

I remember that last season the actors weren't sure the wedding was really going to happen. They said that the writers, or TPTB, were very carefully saying that a wedding was going to be planned and the cast wondered if it was really going to happen in the end.

Now, I'm not sure how far before the finale they were when they made those comments, but I think that TPTB aren't going to telegraph everything they have up their sleeves.

I don't know to what degree the last couple of episodes will affect the upcoming sweeps episodes, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the issues that have arisen between Sheldon and Amy are brought up. And I'm sure we'll see sme kind of development between Raj and Lucy, even if, in the end they go their separate ways. I don't think that will happen--I think TPTB seem pleased with the Racy at this point. If they have an arc in mind or figure that Lucy will be the one who finally draws Raj out, then well see some important development over the next few eps.

[tmp]

About Raj, didn't the producers say recently that there would be some more creative conversing but that we would see something to make us think he could someday talk to women sans booze?  Would be a great development.

[shamylove]

How bout Raj starts taking the pills that allowed him to talk to women before but caused him to lose his inhibitions and his clothing. So, he moves to a clothing-optional community.

 

I kid, of course 

[idrive65]

My prediction for the finale - Amy dumps Sheldon, leaving Shamy fans in puddles of angst and tears for the summer wondering how they will get back together.  

[Ar Diem]

My prediction for the finale - Amy dumps Sheldon, leaving Shamy fans in puddles of angst and tears for the summer wondering how they will get back together.  

 

 

Actually I have seen many Shamy fans supporting such a scenario or at least having Amy distance herself because Sheldon has not made any measurable romantic progress. 

[BangerMain]

Actually I have seen many Shamy fans supporting such a scenario or at least having Amy distance herself because Sheldon has not made any measurable romantic progress. 

 

I can't believe they would not address this growing problem with Sheldon's attitude this season. Sheldon is not just unromantic, he is now unmanly. Not protecting your women in the face of danger is a pretty dispicable offence for a man. Hidding behind her in the face of your danger means you should turn in your nut sack. That's as low as they have ever made Sheldon go and Amy had every right to be upset.

 

Most women would find Sheldon reprehensible by his actions toward Amy and women in general this season. You wonder why the writers are doing this to him as there is nothing about him that would make any women say "I want a piece of that!"

Edited March 19, 2013 by BangerMain

[phantagrae]

I can't believe they would not address this growing problem with Sheldon's attitude this season. Sheldon is not just unromantic, he is now unmanly. Not protecting your women in the face of danger is a pretty dispicable offence for a man. Hidding behind her in the face of your danger means you should turn in your nut sack. That's as low as they have ever made Sheldon go and Amy had every right to be upset.

 

Most women would find Sheldon reprehensible by his actions toward Amy and women in general this season. You wonder why the writers are doing this to him as there is nothing about him that would make any women say "I want a piece of that!"

 

I don't think they're intending his actions to be taken that seriously.

[Ar Diem]

I can't believe they would not address this growing problem with Sheldon's attitude this season. Sheldon is not just unromantic, he is now unmanly. Not protecting your women in the face of danger is a pretty dispicable offence for a man. Hidding behind her in the face of your danger means you should turn in your nut sack. That's as low as they have ever made Sheldon go and Amy had every right to be upset.

 

Most women would find Sheldon reprehensible by his actions toward Amy and women in general this season. You wonder why the writers are doing this to him as there is nothing about him that would make any women say "I want a piece of that!"

 

 

So tell us how you really feel.  lol

 

I completely agree.  I would have probably started another thread about it but, frankly, it doesn't surprise me anymore and I am getting a little tired of reading my own comments about how crappy Shamy is most of the time.  I think starting with the VD episode TPTB have pushed the envelope on how much the audience will tolerate and still call it a romance.  The only thing that amazes me is that it has taken practically an anvil on the head to get more outrage.

[Ar Diem]

I don't think they're intending his actions to be taken that seriously.

 

 

I just hope you are not anywhere close to this tolerant in real life.

[phantagrae]

I just hope you are not anywhere close to this tolerant in real life.

 

I don't know that I have hung around with people where men had to be protecting their women from other men or whatever.  Yes, of course, one should stand up for and protect one's loved ones.

 

But it was obviously meant to be a funny gag--they laid almost all the comedy on Sheldon's behavior in this episode--and Amy wasn't ever in danger.

And when has Sheldon ever been brave?  If Leonard had been standing next to him, he would have grabbed Leonard the same way.

[Ar Diem]

I don't know that I have hung around with people where men had to be protecting their women from other men or whatever.  Yes, of course, one should stand up for and protect one's loved ones.

 

But it was obviously meant to be a funny gag--they laid almost all the comedy on Sheldon's behavior in this episode--and Amy wasn't ever in danger.

And when has Sheldon ever been brave?  If Leonard had been standing next to him, he would have grabbed Leonard the same way.

 

 

So why did they choose Amy over Leonard?  What makes that a funnier gag for you?

[rubyanjel]

Hi JA!

 

I didn't realize Racy was going to be in the finale.  I am still not sure they are important enough for me to care but they still have a few episodes to raise Racy's stock.

 

Unless this is her last season I think you can take solace in the fact that the writers don't even know their endgame yet.  If you were talking about Shamy anyone's guess is as good as mine.  Even in a safe season they need to end on a high note.

 

I wish I could have had you on a hotseat.  Your brain interests me.

 

Yes. I agree, anybody's guess is possible in a world filled with multiple uncertainties. Yes, I am talking about Shamy. I admit I was a rabid fan and I am not sure right now if I still am or I just got tired of all this "drama" of having to rant in forums whenever I find something that disappoints me. I guess this time around I am easily pleased with having to read spoilers, scoops and whatnot and that certain factors affect decisions in TV shows. There are many sound reasons that may have been stated here already but we are simply the audience and we cannot judge or point our fingers immediately to a certain writer or to one of the creators. 

This IS a TV Show, and a business to begin with. Adhering to Adam Smith's The Wealth Of Nations (I do subscribe to Benkler's Penguin and Leviathan too, but I just had my 3rd exam on Social Science hours ago so the ideas are still in my head), self-interest drives the market, AKA the invisible hand. They want to earn money, and to do that, they have to give what their audience want. The audience are pleased, they earn ratings showing how wide the demographic their show can reach making it possible for numerous advertisements to invest on them, thus providing them funds. Yes, I know I sound like I am stating the obvious but sometimes people forget that this fact exists. Besides the business aspect, there's the artistic (help me, I am not sure what to call it) component in which the writers also try to build their reputation (and also the show's own) by creating a story that people will watch. The show IS categorized as comedy so that's what I always think about the show most of the time.  The reasons I am still watching it is because it coincides with my field of interest as it maintains both comedic aspects and applies them to their new focus/ratings driver, the relationship storylines. They are pushing forth the characters who I want to get together romantically, and that they have written the characters in a way that they can squeeze out a story from them and it would still grab my attention and make me want to continue tuning in. I guess that's how they run this business. Now, given the stability of their "business", they (or Chuck) has the option to not really listen to the audience because, like the Laws of the supply and demand, the more you increase the supply by giving into the audiences' request which in turn, overpowers the demand, the price (and in terms of tv, the audience interest) will decline. So they need to maintain a market equilibrium by NOT giving into the demand. And as crazy as it is, I can make this as a sound excuse to tell myself as to why they are placing Sheldon and Amy in that situation from the last episode. Somewhat, if they continue to lower the supply (of that thing I and the rest of the fans want with Shamy), demands will increase making every drop of Shamy moment they have in their supply more valuable. BOOM! Ratings grabber! Profit earner!

I can take this further into discussions of Adam Smith's Division of Labor as to why these characters are like that and discussion into Durkheim's On the Division of Labor in Society but I can only do so much and explain something from David Ricardo which was his Law of Diminishing returns on how I do not approve that they make Shamy "gradually going steady" as to like what we just had last Thurday (which was that bickering). As was said about that economic principle,

The law of diminishing returns (also law of diminishing marginal returns or law of increasing relative cost) states that in all productive processes, adding more of one factor of production, while holding all others constant ("ceteris paribus"), will at some point yield lower per-unit returns

 

Meaning that yielded lowed per-unit returns is my interest. I'd still love Shamy. But I will then find it boring and it will then kill off my interest.

 

But that's just me. That's why I pulled off all those shiz.

 

So, with this, I do not know if the writers are going to sacrifice their ratings or the show's current standing to break up this couple. I do not adhere to the Sitcom Degradation Theory that was posted a few pages back because not every show is the same, coupled with the fact that NEVER applies to TV shows in our country. 

 

Now, let me just go back to my thesis that I am to present in 12 hours (it's 1 am here and I still do not have chapters 1, 2, 4 and 5, and the powerpoint presentation.

Edited March 19, 2013 by jeanalice

[phantagrae]

So why did they choose Amy over Leonard?  What makes that a funnier gag for you?

 

I didn't say it was a funnier gag for me.  I said that the gag was that he hides behind Amy, maybe because she's a girl, maybe because she's his girlfriend, so she gets to gripe at him about it.

It's part of comedy writing--sometimes you use an absurdity.

Yeah, maybe the writers thought it would be funnier if he hid behind Amy rather than Leonard, because it's more extreme, but they didn't do it to make Sheldon out to be some kind of despicable wuss.  Sheldon's always been a coward when it comes to most things, but especially physical altercations.

 

In real life it would be despicable if a man hid behind his woman from someone who was going to beat him up.

But in comedy writing, such absurdity is part of the farce.

Maybe in a drama something like this scenario would be seen differently, but we're talking about a sitcom where there are certain kinds of comedic tropes that are used, or where things are taking to sometimes ridiculous extremes to underscore the comedy.

 

It's funny to me how you often use the "it's only a TV show" to gripe at me for disagreeing with you on some point, trying to say that I'm taking your discussions too seriously (like your lovely topics about cheating and getting rid of characters, etc.), but then you take something like this and try to talk about it as if it's supposed to be realistic--when it's "just a tv show".

 

It's comedy writing and they're going to do silly, unrealistic things--like Penny having a dead goldfish in her closet, or Sheldon having a peso up his nose since he was a kid, or Sheldon having to beg Howard for the chance to meet Steven Hawking, or whatever.

[phantagrae]

 

Yes. I agree, anybody's guess is possible in a world filled with multiple uncertainties. Yes, I am talking about Shamy. I admit I was a rabid fan and I am not sure right now if I still am or I just got tired of all this "drama" of having to rant in forums whenever I find something that disappoints me. I guess this time around I am easily pleased with having to read spoilers, scoops and whatnot and that certain factors affect decisions in TV shows. There are many sound reasons that may have been stated here already but we are simply the audience and we cannot judge or point our fingers immediately to a certain writer or to one of the creators. 

This IS a TV Show, and a business to begin with. Adhering to Adam Smith's The Wealth Of Nations (I do subscribe to Benkler's Penguin and Leviathan too, but I just had my 3rd exam on Social Science hours ago so the ideas are still in my head), self-interest drives the market, AKA the invisible hand. They want to earn money, and to do that, they have to give what their audience want. The audience are pleased, they earn ratings showing how wide the demographic their show can reach making it possible for numerous advertisements to invest on them, thus providing them funds. Yes, I know I sound like I am stating the obvious but sometimes people forget that this fact exists. Besides the business aspect, there's the artistic (help me, I am not sure what to call it) component in which the writers also try to build their reputation (and also the show's own) by creating a story that people will watch. The show IS categorized as comedy so that's what I always think about the show most of the time.  The reasons I am still watching it is because it coincides with my field of interest as it maintains both comedic aspects and applies them to their new focus/ratings driver, the relationship storylines. They are pushing forth the characters who I want to get together romantically, and that they have written the characters in a way that they can squeeze out a story from them and it would still grab my attention and make me want to continue tuning in. I guess that's how they run this business. Now, given the stability of their "business", they (or Chuck) has the option to not really listen to the audience because, like the Laws of the supply and demand, the more you increase the supply by giving into the audiences' request which in turn, overpowers the demand, the price (and in terms of tv, the audience interest) will decline. So they need to maintain a market equilibrium by NOT giving into the demand. And as crazy as it is, I can make this as a sound excuse to tell myself as to why they are placing Sheldon and Amy in that situation from the last episode. Somewhat, if they continue to lower the supply (of that thing I and the rest of the fans want with Shamy), demands will increase making every drop of Shamy moment they have in their supply more valuable. BOOM! Ratings grabber! Profit earner!

I can take this further into discussions of Adam Smith's Division of Labor as to why these characters are like that and discussion into Durkheim's On the Division of Labor in Society but I can only do so much and explain something from David Ricardo which was his Law of Diminishing returns on how I do not approve that they make Shamy "gradually going steady" as to like what we just had last Thurday (which was that bickering). As was said about that economic principle,

 

Meaning that yielded lowed per-unit returns is my interest. I'd still love Shamy. But I will then find it boring and it will then kill off my interest.

 

But that's just me. That's why I pulled off all those shiz.

 

So, with this, I do not know if the writers are going to sacrifice their ratings or the show's current standing to break up this couple. I do not adhere to the Sitcom Degradation Theory that was posted a few pages back because not every show is the same, coupled with the fact that NEVER applies to TV shows in our country. 

 

Now, let me just go back to my thesis that I am to present in 12 hours (it's 1 am here and I still do not have chapters 1, 2, 4 and 5, and the powerpoint presentation.

 

And sometimes writers just want to tell the story they want to tell.

[rubyanjel]

And sometimes writers just want to tell the story they want to tell.

Is this trying to add something or is this negating parts my statement? I'm sorry, Phanta. Right now I am fueled by energy drinks so I can't even detect sarcasm. Right now what I got with this one was the same as what I said with regards to the artistic component shiz. UGH. HELP ME WITH MY LIFEEE.

[Ar Diem]

@Jeanalice

 

Good luck on your thesis.  You sort of re-stated my comment about creating contrast so when they deliver some romantic gesture it will be seen as more than it is but you certainly backed it up.  lol.

 

You are right.  It is a business.  We don't know if what we have now was always part of the plan or if it morphed primarily to get higher ratings. 

[phantagrae]

Is this trying to add something or is this negating parts my statement? I'm sorry, Phanta. Right now I am fueled by energy drinks so I can't even detect sarcasm. Right now what I got with this one was the same as what I said with regards to the artistic component shiz. UGH. HELP ME WITH MY LIFEEE.

 

I was not trying in any way to negate anything you said, but simply to underscore that television writing isn't just about marketing and ratings.  Though they do have to keep in mind that ratings means freedom to continue, a writer still has to tell the story they really want to tell or else it becomes formulaic.

 

I think that TBBT's success means that they can afford to tell a story like the one we just had.  They know the fans are invested in the characters and that they don't have to have 20 minutes of knee-slappers in every episode.  They feel they can take a moment to show a little more heart and the audience will go with them, or take some other kinds of chances.

Perhaps not every single person out there will be pleased, but I think TPTB are comfortable enough that they trust the audience to go along.

[Ar Diem]

I didn't say it was a funnier gag for me.  I said that the gag was that he hides behind Amy, maybe because she's a girl, maybe because she's his girlfriend, so she gets to gripe at him about it.

It's part of comedy writing--sometimes you use an absurdity.

Yeah, maybe the writers thought it would be funnier if he hid behind Amy rather than Leonard, because it's more extreme, but they didn't do it to make Sheldon out to be some kind of despicable wuss.  Sheldon's always been a coward when it comes to most things, but especially physical altercations.

 

In real life it would be despicable if a man hid behind his woman from someone who was going to beat him up.

But in comedy writing, such absurdity is part of the farce.

Maybe in a drama something like this scenario would be seen differently, but we're talking about a sitcom where there are certain kinds of comedic tropes that are used, or where things are taking to sometimes ridiculous extremes to underscore the comedy.

 

It's funny to me how you often use the "it's only a TV show" to gripe at me for disagreeing with you on some point, trying to say that I'm taking your discussions too seriously (like your lovely topics about cheating and getting rid of characters, etc.), but then you take something like this and try to talk about it as if it's supposed to be realistic--when it's "just a tv show".

 

It's comedy writing and they're going to do silly, unrealistic things--like Penny having a dead goldfish in her closet, or Sheldon having a peso up his nose since he was a kid, or Sheldon having to beg Howard for the chance to meet Steven Hawking, or whatever.

 

I am not making a big deal out of this.  I am just curious as to where your line is. 

 

So why did they choose Amy over Penny?  Do you agree that having him use Amy is the most despicable option available to him?

[rubyanjel]

I was not trying in any way to negate anything you said, but simply to underscore that television writing isn't just about marketing and ratings.  Though they do have to keep in mind that ratings means freedom to continue, a writer still has to tell the story they really want to tell or else it becomes formulaic.

 

I think that TBBT's success means that they can afford to tell a story like the one we just had.  They know the fans are invested in the characters and that they don't have to have 20 minutes of knee-slappers in every episode.  They feel they can take a moment to show a little more heart and the audience will go with them, or take some other kinds of chances.

Perhaps not every single person out there will be pleased, but I think TPTB are comfortable enough that they trust the audience to go along.

I agree with this because, taking out all my Social Science gibberish, that's what they said when Chuck and Bill said before: They do not accept fan ideas because they want to tell the story that they want, especially back when Shenny Shippers used to attack them online.

[phantagrae]

I am not making a big deal out of this.  I am just curious as to where your line is. 

 

So why did they choose Amy over Penny?  Do you agree that having him use Amy is the most despicable option available to him?

 

I didn't say you were making a big deal out of it.  I was referring to previous conversations we have had.

 

And what do you mean by my "line"?  Are you trying to say that I think it's okay for a man to hide behind a woman?  I already answered that.

 

I'm talking about the fact that they simply did this as a gag, not a statement about misogyny or about Sheldon being "unmanly" as someone put it.

 

They chose Amy over Penny because Amy is his girlfriend and her reaction is more important than Penny's reaction.

And again, it's not about being dispicable, it's about Sheldon "panicking".  She was miffed at him, but she obviously didn't think his behavior was despicable.  And she seemed to pretty much forgive him.  It wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

[Ar Diem]

Would you think it would be despicable for a partner of yours to do it to you?

[Nogravitasatall]

It was only Howard, so it's just ludicrous. There was no real threat so his response is merely comic. It not like he had to fall on a grenade or block a drunken assault. Despicable is out of scope.

Howard has no history of assaulting anyone. Amy , Sheldon and everyone knew that. Crazy is more like what she might think. But she's been acclimatising to his crazy, though she's finding now there is not enough oxygen in it.

(And don't fall on a grenade. Get in a hole. So says mythbusters)

[BangerMain]

It was only Howard, so it's just ludicrous. There was no real threat so his response is merely comic. It not like he had to fall on a grenade or block a drunken assault. Despicable is out of scope.

Howard has no history of assaulting anyone. Amy , Sheldon and everyone knew that. Crazy is more like what she might think. But she's been acclimatising to his crazy, though she's finding now there is not enough oxygen in it.

(And don't fall on a grenade. Get in a hole. So says mythbusters)

Always trust the MythBusters!

Sheldon's actions were all for the gag, that's the way TBBT rolls. But the general tone of the Shamy and Sheldon in particular is to regress on their romantic progress recently. It's cool to not want to make Sheldon change too much in this relationship but they seem to want to take to an extreme his worst traits. His treatment of her in the last few episodes is pretty awful for a light comedy.

There was a central core to Sheldon that made the character somewhat tolerable if not likeable. Now you wonder why any woman would put up with his attitude. The whole thing about the Shamy is that there was some woman out there that thought Sheldon was worth trying to establish a relationship. The current Sheldon shows no redeemable value for the effort.

Edited March 19, 2013 by BangerMain