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6.19 The Closet Reconfiguration (Mar. 14)

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While I agree about the statistical sample, I will say that gender roles exist and it's foolish to deny them, but I don't agree that it's biological rather a product of traditional patriarchal culture (and it's imprisoning for men as well). Women are brought up and conditioned into gender roles: marriage, not being 'aggressive', deferring to men socially etc whether it's China or North America, India or South America, I mean how many men like Cinderella or Sleeping Beauty or the Shamy? My male friends adore James Bond, Star Trek etc. and most males in this forum like the Lenny, which is a popular male fantasy: the plain guy gets the gorgeous young nubile women - the trophy. Most movies and television reinforces this boring stereotype. I'd say the exception is Joss Whedon who has active women and men released from boring gender roles.

I do not want to read too much into this comment but I have to say I find it a tad too binary, for lack of a better word. 

 

The "boys" like Lenny because Penny is a trophy and the "girls" like the Shamy because Amy is not a classical heroin ? I suppose one can see it like this. However, and just for the sake of argument, one could also say that Amy, by being so very obedient to Sheldon, is hardly a sterling example of female empowerment/deconstruction of patriarchical culture and that Penny, by spending most of her time being one hell of a pain in Leonard's romantic backside, is not your classic young, innocent, nubile girl. And where does that leave us in terms of gender roles  and identification as far as 'shipping is concerned ? 

 

Now, I do not think either of these stereotypical interpretations is correct at all. 

 

Is it true that, on this forum, there are more male Lenny 'shippers than female ? It does look like it. Is it also true that there are more female Shamy 'shippers than male ? Appears so. Can this be extrapolated to the general TBBT viewing population ? Of course not. Can this be explained by the characteristics of the female characters involved in these two onscreen relationship ? If one so wishes, absolutely. Could it also be explained by other factors entirely ? Hell yes. 

 

Amy is great; Penny is great; Shamy is great; Lenny is great. The show has always been about relationships, including of the romantic kind. Now, do I wish there were a bit less of it sometimes so the show would focus on the characters' more individual, possibly professional, pursuits ? Yes. But the show has to evolve : the guys cannot, six years down the line, be as flabbergasted by the outside world as they once were nor can they not develop and dedicate time to the relationships they have formed along the way. 

Edited by Chiara
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I do not want to read too much into this comment but I have to say I find it a tad too binary, for lack of a better word. 

 

The "boys" like Lenny because Penny is a trophy and the "girls" like the Shamy because Amy is not a classical heroin ? I suppose one can see it like this. However, and just for the sake of argument, one could also say that Amy, by being so very obedient to Sheldon, is hardly a sterling example of female empowerment/deconstruction of patriarchical culture and that Penny, by spending most of her time being one hell of a pain in Leonard's romantic backside, is not your classic young, innocent, nubile girl. And where does that leave us in terms of gender roles  and identification as far as 'shipping is concerned ? 

 

Now, I do not think either of these stereotypical interpretations is correct at all. 

 

Is it true that, on this forum, there are more male Lenny 'shippers than female ? It does look like it. Is it also true that there are more female Shamy 'shippers than male ? Appears so. Can this be extrapolated to the general TBBT viewing population ? Of course not. Can this be explained by the characteristics of the female characters involved in these two onscreen relationship ? If one so wishes, absolutely. Could it also be explained by other factors entirely ? Hell yes. 

 

Amy is great; Penny is great; Shamy is great; Lenny is great. The show has always been about relationships, including of the romantic kind. Now, do I wish there were a bit less of it sometimes so the show would focus on the characters' more individual, possibly professional, pursuits ? Yes. But the show has to evolve : the guys cannot, six years down the line, be as flabbergasted by the outside world as they once were nor can they not develop and dedicate time to the relationships they have formed along the way. 

 

Actually I enjoyed Season 4 Amy, independent, brilliant, irritating, uncaring of what others thought. Now that was breaking stereotypes and gender boundaries. As I've said, current TBBT writers sadly reinforce stereotypes not the opposite. Season 6 Amy is indeed,a fantasy; the plain girl who gets the Alpha guy (in this case the most alpha nerd) but who puts up with anything just to keep him. I think it says reams about the Shamy fans that they find this a romantic couple to root for,but how many plain girls get alpha guys stories are there on tv?

 

Penny is the modern trophy: the top model, the playboy bunny, the Kardashian who is coveted by all. She has the power as Leonard is considered lucky to get a beautiful girl 'outside his league.'

 

Gender stereotypes are binary, that's their problem and that is what I dislike so much.

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Actually I enjoyed Season 4 Amy, independent, brilliant, irritating, uncaring of what others thought. Now that was breaking stereotypes and gender boundaries. As I've said, current TBBT writers sadly reinforce stereotypes not the opposite. Season 6 Amy is indeed,a fantasy; the plain girl who gets the Alpha guy (in this case the most alpha nerd) but who puts up with anything just to keep him. I think it says reams about the Shamy fans that they find this a romantic couple to root for,but how many plain girls get alpha guys stories are there on tv?

 

Penny is the modern trophy: the top model, the playboy bunny, the Kardashian who is coveted by all. She has the power as Leonard is considered lucky to get a beautiful girl 'outside his league.'

 

Gender stereotypes are binary, that's their problem and that is what I dislike so much.

 

This season's Sheldon as an "Alpha" anything is questionable. What characteristic have they left him that any women or man would consider lead dog material? He's now behind Kripke as a Physicist at CalTech. Yikes! I was embarrassed for him when they had him hiding behind Amy, in front of the other women, to protect himself from Howard, of all people.

 

The power positions of Penny and Leonard have almost completely switched with Penny now catering to him. Never thought we'd see that.

Edited by BangerMain
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most males in this forum like the Lenny, which is a popular male fantasy: the plain guy gets the gorgeous young nubile women - the trophy. Most movies and television reinforces this boring stereotype.

 

So it's the males who like the 'boring stereotype', but the show has become boring and stereotypical because it caters mostly to females now? You're confusing me. :icon_eek:

 

The fact is, as Chiara says, both 'Lenny' and 'Shamy' are too three-dimensional to follow any stereotype. Sheldon and Amy individually, and their relationship, are too odd and off-the-wall to obey any definitions at all; neither of them represent anything typical about their own gender. And so you have the audience fluctuating between calling Amy a doormat and calling Sheldon whipped. (Both have been in evidence on the show). As for Leonard and Penny, the 'nerdy plain guy getting hot girl' fantasy is okay as far as that goes. But do men fantasize about a hot girl much more 'masculine', in many respects, than themselves? Or a commitment-phobic girl? That is traditionally considered the male domain.

 

Again, I'm not trying to reinforce these ideas, just saying that both these couples work for as well as against many gender stereotypes. Ultimately, people who like them do so because they are Leonard/Penny and Sheldon/Amy, with everything that entails; not because they stick to specific conventional definitions of relationships.  

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So it's the males who like the 'boring stereotype', but the show has become boring and stereotypical because it caters mostly to females now? You're confusing me. :icon_eek:

 

The fact is, as Chiara says, both 'Lenny' and 'Shamy' are too three-dimensional to follow any stereotype. Sheldon and Amy individually, and their relationship, are too odd and off-the-wall to obey any definitions at all; neither of them represent anything typical about their own gender. And so you have the audience fluctuating between calling Amy a doormat and calling Sheldon whipped. (Both have been in evidence on the show). As for Leonard and Penny, the 'nerdy plain guy getting hot girl' fantasy is okay as far as that goes. But do men fantasize about a hot girl much more 'masculine', in many respects, than themselves? Or a commitment-phobic girl? That is traditionally considered the male domain.

 

Again, I'm not trying to reinforce these ideas, just saying that both these couples work for as well as against many gender stereotypes. Ultimately, people who like them do so because they are Leonard/Penny and Sheldon/Amy, with everything that entails; not because they stick to specific conventional definitions of relationships.  

 

Pomita, that was brilliant.

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So it's the males who like the 'boring stereotype', but the show has become boring and stereotypical because it caters mostly to females now? You're confusing me. :icon_eek:

 

The fact is, as Chiara says, both 'Lenny' and 'Shamy' are too three-dimensional to follow any stereotype. Sheldon and Amy individually, and their relationship, are too odd and off-the-wall to obey any definitions at all; neither of them represent anything typical about their own gender. And so you have the audience fluctuating between calling Amy a doormat and calling Sheldon whipped. (Both have been in evidence on the show). As for Leonard and Penny, the 'nerdy plain guy getting hot girl' fantasy is okay as far as that goes. But do men fantasize about a hot girl much more 'masculine', in many respects, than themselves? Or a commitment-phobic girl? That is traditionally considered the male domain.

 

Again, I'm not trying to reinforce these ideas, just saying that both these couples work for as well as against many gender stereotypes. Ultimately, people who like them do so because they are Leonard/Penny and Sheldon/Amy, with everything that entails; not because they stick to specific conventional definitions of relationships.  

Agreed. You just summed it up perfectly. 

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Well, as I've stated elsewhere in this forum. I like Leonard and Penny mostly because it tracks my life so closely and has nothing to do with winning a trophy woman. Back then, I had just met my wife, and she was a friend, as part of a group. As my friend, we enjoyed being with the gang, going out to movies with the group, dinner with the group, playing games with the group(this was back in the age of dinosaurs, when all we had were boardgames(one of our favorites was "The Creature that ate Sheboygan"). and as we moved from friends to good friends, to lovers, and we still enjoyed the group things, but as my girlfriend and lover, there was some of just the two of us time. That was the first three years.

Then we broke up, dated others yet managed to stay friends and got back together again, got very serious, got engaged, and then got married. Moved, got more serious jobs, had kids and the group stuff kinda went away except for occasionally. And the more nerdy things weren't done as much although we still enjoyed them. We grew up.

Of course, a lot of people would say things were not as good as those first three years, because we weren't doing all those group things or playing games, or going to the movies, or being nerdy. But we enjoyed everything after those first three years just as much as those first three years. We just enjoyed different things and being in love with each other.

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Thanks. :)

 

Tensor, your relationship does seem to reflect Leonard/Penny (and the journey of TBBT in general) rather well.. thanks for sharing.

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Actually I enjoyed Season 4 Amy, independent, brilliant, irritating, uncaring of what others thought. Now that was breaking stereotypes and gender boundaries. As I've said, current TBBT writers sadly reinforce stereotypes not the opposite. Season 6 Amy is indeed,a fantasy; the plain girl who gets the Alpha guy (in this case the most alpha nerd) but who puts up with anything just to keep him. I think it says reams about the Shamy fans that they find this a romantic couple to root for,but how many plain girls get alpha guys stories are there on tv?

 

Penny is the modern trophy: the top model, the playboy bunny, the Kardashian who is coveted by all. She has the power as Leonard is considered lucky to get a beautiful girl 'outside his league.'

 

Gender stereotypes are binary, that's their problem and that is what I dislike so much.

I now see two individuals that have now negotiated around the sterotypes to discover that they have found someone right under their nose with whom they can have a companionable and long term relationship. They were just an unlikely match at first sight.

If trophy status was ever in play, s3 and the roommate transmogrification killed it. The relationship is no longer as shallow as to be based on appearances. So I think that analogy might not be relevant now.

(And Kardashian? That's just wrong... and ewww :) )

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After 6.18, I was really hoping for this episode to be good, or at least watchable without feeling uncomfortable, and fortunately it was.

Sheldon cleaning up the closet reminded me so much of 'The Big Bran Hypothesis', where Leonard and Sheldon clean Penny's appartment. It's nice to see these refferences to early episodes, intended or not.

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One thing I haven't seen much talk about is how in this episode, Sheldon was clearly choosing to separate himself from the group, even with Amy right there. Amy was part of the group, and Sheldon was off doing something quite ridiculous. That he has OCD is a given, but it is now becoming a problem with his social interactions. Knocking three times on the door while saying someone's name is one thing. Leaving the group to clean a closet as if he was given a treat is another. They passed it off as Sheldon being Sheldon, but think about it. He had no interaction with the group except to briefly bitch about his shirt bothering him, he brought his own food to a dinner (and was quite nasty and insulting to the host), he abandoned his girlfriend to organize a closet "because of the goblins in his head". The implication was that they didn't need to ask him to do it, he's crazy enough that just showing it to him would trigger his illness such that he would HAVE TO CLEAN IT!

 

When Amy commented that it was so cute he was like that, everyone just looked at her like "are you nuts?". Even when they were telling the different likely contents of the letter, Sheldon insisted on a story that wasn't in keeping with his own plan, simply because he liked it. He chose not to see that he was sabotaging his own plan. To please the goblins in his head, apparently.

 

He has been quite awful to Amy all season too. First trying to out-source his Relationship Agreement obligations to Raj. He constantly complains about Amy wanting to hold hands or engage in any sort of physical affection. He couldn't come to any sort of compromise with Amy about Halloween costumes and complains that he lost out as he had to modify his C3PO costume at all. He flat out lied (which is really out of character) to Amy about his issues with her moving in. They had a good episode with the parking spot episode, but mainly it was her fighting his battles. Now we have the first adult parties by the two stable couples in the group, and Sheldon wants none of it. The writers could just drop it, as they often do, but it could also be leading to a Shamy breakup, at least temporarily. Sheldon could just flip out then, and be compelled to see a therapist. This could easily be mandated at work, as he has already gotten in trouble for the whole Alex situation. If they found out he made Alex take the online sexual harassment course, he could easily be fired.

 

I think this episode is a harbinger of what is to come - a stable Leonard and Penny, a Shamy breakup, and Sheldon flipping out. The latter could be done without a lot of drama, and more humor, but something needs to change as Sheldon is getting crazier.

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One thing I haven't seen much talk about is how in this episode, Sheldon was clearly choosing to separate himself from the group, even with Amy right there. Amy was part of the group, and Sheldon was off doing something quite ridiculous. That he has OCD is a given, but it is now becoming a problem with his social interactions. Knocking three times on the door while saying someone's name is one thing. Leaving the group to clean a closet as if he was given a treat is another. They passed it off as Sheldon being Sheldon, but think about it. He had no interaction with the group except to briefly bitch about his shirt bothering him, he brought his own food to a dinner (and was quite nasty and insulting to the host), he abandoned his girlfriend to organize a closet "because of the goblins in his head". The implication was that they didn't need to ask him to do it, he's crazy enough that just showing it to him would trigger his illness such that he would HAVE TO CLEAN IT!

 

When Amy commented that it was so cute he was like that, everyone just looked at her like "are you nuts?". Even when they were telling the different likely contents of the letter, Sheldon insisted on a story that wasn't in keeping with his own plan, simply because he liked it. He chose not to see that he was sabotaging his own plan. To please the goblins in his head, apparently.

 

He has been quite awful to Amy all season too. First trying to out-source his Relationship Agreement obligations to Raj. He constantly complains about Amy wanting to hold hands or engage in any sort of physical affection. He couldn't come to any sort of compromise with Amy about Halloween costumes and complains that he lost out as he had to modify his C3PO costume at all. He flat out lied (which is really out of character) to Amy about his issues with her moving in. They had a good episode with the parking spot episode, but mainly it was her fighting his battles. Now we have the first adult parties by the two stable couples in the group, and Sheldon wants none of it. The writers could just drop it, as they often do, but it could also be leading to a Shamy breakup, at least temporarily. Sheldon could just flip out then, and be compelled to see a therapist. This could easily be mandated at work, as he has already gotten in trouble for the whole Alex situation. If they found out he made Alex take the online sexual harassment course, he could easily be fired.

 

I think this episode is a harbinger of what is to come - a stable Leonard and Penny, a Shamy breakup, and Sheldon flipping out. The latter could be done without a lot of drama, and more humor, but something needs to change as Sheldon is getting crazier.

 

I can see where you are thinking something between Amy and Sheldon is going to happen, there are a lot of indicators.  I think there is a 50/50 chance of it myself. 

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I think the whole Sheldon has a breakdown thing is a great idea. It could really get this show back on track if they don't utilize it as yet another relationship device. Personally, I think Amy would be much better used as a foil or nemesis to Sheldon, rather than a girlfriend. If not that, maybe as a super villain sidekick? Yes, Sheldon could go nuts and become the super villain that's always been inside of him. It's time to get back the geek humor and ditch the rom-com crap.

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I think the whole Sheldon has a breakdown thing is a great idea. It could really get this show back on track if they don't utilize it as yet another relationship device. Personally, I think Amy would be much better used as a foil or nemesis to Sheldon, rather than a girlfriend. If not that, maybe as a super villain sidekick? Yes, Sheldon could go nuts and become the super villain that's always been inside of him. It's time to get back the geek humor and ditch the rom-com crap.

 

Whatever.  It's not going to happen.  And the show isn't a cartoon, so there aren't going to be any super villains.

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Whatever.  It's not going to happen.  And the show isn't a cartoon, so there aren't going to be any super villains.

 

Who said it was a cartoon?

 

While I wasn't being serious, it did turn from a nerdy sit-com to a cotton candy rom-com... Some people said Sheldon would never have a girlfriend, yet he does. The fact that Sheldon has a super-villain living inside him has actually been stated on the show. If TBBT can become a rom-com, why can't it have a super-villain? That would be truer to the show's roots than the gooey mess it's become. What was once King of the Nerds is now The Bachelor. I'll take King of the Nerds any day.

Edited by Anomaly
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Who said it was a cartoon?

 

While I wasn't being serious, it did turn from a nerdy sit-com to a cotton candy rom-com... Some people said Sheldon would never have a girlfriend, yet he does. The fact that Sheldon has a super-villain living inside him has actually been stated on the show. If TBBT can become a rom-com, why can't it have a super-villain? That would be truer to the show's roots than the gooey mess it's become. What was once King of the Nerds is now The Bachelor. I'll take King of the Nerds any day.

 

Exactly, yeah I loved  when they said Sheldon was one lab accident away from being a super villian. What happened to that, what happened to Homo Novus and all that good nerdy stuff. Gone with the wind. I barely watch anymore....*sigh*

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One thing I haven't seen much talk about is how in this episode, Sheldon was clearly choosing to separate himself from the group, even with Amy right there. Amy was part of the group, and Sheldon was off doing something quite ridiculous. That he has OCD is a given, but it is now becoming a problem with his social interactions. Knocking three times on the door while saying someone's name is one thing. Leaving the group to clean a closet as if he was given a treat is another.

He has been quite awful to Amy all season too. First trying to out-source his Relationship Agreement obligations to Raj. He constantly complains about Amy wanting to hold hands or engage in any sort of physical affection. The writers could just drop it, as they often do, but it could also be leading to a Shamy breakup, at least temporarily. Sheldon could just flip out then, and be compelled to see a therapist. This could easily be mandated at work, as he has already gotten in trouble for the whole Alex situation. If they found out he made Alex take the online sexual harassment course, he could easily be fired.

I think this episode is a harbinger of what is to come - a stable Leonard and Penny, a Shamy breakup, and Sheldon flipping out. The latter could be done without a lot of drama, and more humor, but something needs to change as Sheldon is getting crazier.

There is less and less of Sheldon that can be seen as socially redeemable. He may not be turned into @Anomaly's "super villain" but he is as unlikable a human being as there is on TV today. It was telling the reaction of the other characters to Amy's desperate plea to view Sheldon's actions as lovably quirky. No, they are anti-social and crazy.

I still think Sheldon is often funny and those who thought the Shamy would make him more human seem to have nothing to fear. But the Sheldon of this season is now so toxic it bends credibility that he would still have friends or sometimes a job given his attitude towards women.

Edited by BangerMain
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Exactly, yeah I loved  when they said Sheldon was one lab accident away from being a super villian. What happened to that, what happened to Homo Novus and all that good nerdy stuff. Gone with the wind. I barely watch anymore....*sigh*

 

Same here. I do DVR the new episodes, but I only watch them very casually, if and when I get around to it. I highly prefer tossing in a season 1-3 disc to being subjected to what this show has become.

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Just watched this one again, and I FINALLY was able to get through the What's In Howard's Father's Letter? scene without getting a lump in my throat.

This is such good television. :)

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This episode was pretty bad. Why? Well Anomaly and Co. already answered that.

At least 6.20 looks promising...

Edited by Berliner
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Just watched this one again, and I FINALLY was able to get through the What's In Howard's Father's Letter? scene without getting a lump in my throat.

This is such good television. :)

 

You must be accustomed to some pretty bad television. Seriously, that scene where everybody told their version of Howard's Father's letter was the cheesiest, goofiest thing that I've witnessed in a long time.

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You must be accustomed to some pretty bad television. Seriously, that scene where everybody told their version of Howard's Father's letter was the cheesiest, goofiest thing that I've witnessed in a long time.

Hahaha, no.

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You must be accustomed to some pretty bad television. Seriously, that scene where everybody told their version of Howard's Father's letter was the cheesiest, goofiest thing that I've witnessed in a long time.

It just didn't belong in a comedy show. They're really playing up the "awwwwwwwww" moments this season.

Edited by djvang

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A lot of good sitcoms have "aww" moments. Cheers, Frasier, I Love Lucy, Friends, etc. If you think there's something wrong with sitcoms having "aww" moments, then life is going to continue to be hard for you.

Edited by AdorkablyMe

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