Episodes 6.21 The Closure Alternative (Apr. 25)

[koops]

I was saying in the other thread... I actually think the point with Penny wasn't for her to discover what she's passionate about as much as her realizing that living her life waiting for it to start (i.e. become a big star) is stupid and she should live in the here and now and learn to appreciate what she has. It explains a lot of things about her, imo, including her fear of commitment. 

[landy606]

"The Closure Alternative" - Sheldon feels lost after one of his favorite TV shows gets canceled too soon and Amy tries to help him get over his compulsive need for closure. Meanwhile, Raj discovers a secret about his new love interest, Lucy, on THE BIG BANG THEORY, Thursday, April 25 (8:00 - 8:31 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

 

Episode Guide | Wiki

Just watched this episode and i must say i find it funny that the previous episode ( the tenure turbulence ) ended on a cliffhanger and almost certainly left all of us fans wanting closure in the form of who got awarded tenure. now given the plot of this episode in where Sheldon is seeking "closure" because the series Alpha had been cancelled and left on a "cliffhanger" i think we can assume that was a little cheeky nod to us fans ......i see what you did there ;-)

[djvang]

Shamy will be just fine. As this is a spoiler-free thread, I won't say anything more than that.

The snarky remarks, btw, were in reaction to something that was very frustrating for Sheldon. And since when does he say anything that is even remotely "lover-like"? I thought the lines were delivered in a light and funny way. I was worried that they wouldn't be but was quite pleasantly surprised.

 

I don't think there's much to spoil. Come on, everyone knows where Shamy will end up.

[Ar Diem]

I was saying in the other thread... I actually think the point with Penny wasn't for her to discover what she's passionate about as much as her realizing that living her life waiting for it to start (i.e. become a big star) is stupid and she should live in the here and now and learn to appreciate what she has. It explains a lot of things about her, imo, including her fear of commitment. 

 

 

But if all the Penny jokes and character interactions remain the same I am not sure what the epiphany really accomplished.  We all know it is going to take a bigger catalyst than this for her to propose so, yeah, it might be a step and an important lesson to learn but I doubt it yields anything.  It is not really character development if the character remains the same, is it? 

[koops]

But if all the Penny jokes and character interactions remain the same I am not sure what the epiphany really accomplished.  We all know it is going to take a bigger catalyst than this for her to propose so, yeah, it might be a step and an important lesson to learn but I doubt it yields anything.  It is not really character development if the character remains the same, is it? 

 

Yes, but that's something we'll have to see in future episodes. In this one, she had her moment of telling that to Leonard and then went to Sheldon to show appreciation for having him in her life. But also, the more I watch this show the more I realize that they don't really do big epiphanies or catalysts as other shows tend to do. It seems to be a constant addition of little things and the characters kind of change without any obvious moment that makes you go "Oh, there it is!". It's kind of more realistic in a way, since dramatic epiphanies don't usually happen that often in life, but from a viewer point of view I can see why that can be frustrating at times. I'm hoping they will continue to build on this with Penny next season, we'll have to see.

[phantagrae]

LOVED the episode, and I don't even care that it was a little crammed.  I kind of think that leading into Sweeps they kind of want to involve the whole gang as much as possible.

 

Anyway, a few thoughts--I don't think that the point of the Shamy scenes was for Amy to try to actually cure Sheldon.  Obviously something like that would take more than one evening of frustration.  And I loved Sheldon's first comment in the tic-tac-toe scene where he said something about her field being for "diaper babies"

And the "Good 'cause I wished you were dead" line was very funny, and obviously a product of his growing frustration.  LOVED the jack-in-the-box fight--and their faces! :D  Perfect!

And then, of course, Sheldon going back and redoing all the exercises and giving himself closure.

And the dominoes--it was really funny the first time when she told him to pack them up and he mimicked her, but then the DOMINORGASM--loved it!

 

Penny's story, about trying to find her passion, I thought hinged on her statement about waiting for her life to start.  I know that feeling--"if only this would happen, then everything will fall into place", and in the meantime, you're just treading water.

I think it goes without saying that she's passionate about acting--that part was not the question.  Just as the guys are committed to their careers, she is committed to hers, even though it's something she's still struggling to pull off.  But it's all the other stuff--that doesn't have anything to do with their careers.  Just as all of us who take time to post on this forum, we have our jobs, our families or whatever, but we still have enough "passion" to spend a lot of time and energy watching and talking about this show, even writing fanfic or watching the actors on talk shows or whatever.

That's kind of what she's talking about.  Apart from her career as an actress, what else does she care about?  She doesn't feel the need to go online to discuss a TV show, or collect action figures or wear costumes.

The thing she spends her free time on is her circle of friends.  Not just her boyfriend, but all of the gang in her life.  And not just as people to hang out with, but as people to care about and take care of and love.

 

It was a little odd that she kind of just randomly bursts into the guys' apartment to tell Sheldon that she loves having him in her life, but I think it kind of serves a couple of purposes.  Someone at the other forum said that it was kind of like she'd had this epiphany and felt the need to go and tell all of her friends that she loved having them in her life, so naturally she started with Sheldon, since he was just across the hall.  One could extrapolate that she might have gone to each of her friends to tell them.

From a writers' standpoint, I think her entrance served the obvious purpose of putting a period on the end of Sheldon's domino moment.  Rather than leaving him writhing on the floor on his own, or having Leonard stumble in on him, they used Penny--maybe so they could use Sheldon's "I love you" line to show how blissed out he was (especially following his "urging" comments during the Dominorgasm--"don't stop" "keep going" "just like that" or whatever)  Just as someone might utter such words after a real climax, he says them after his "climax".  But it kind of needed an impetus for him to say it.

IMO

 

As for Raj/Howard/Doggie/Lucy--it was okay.  Kind of funny, with the doggie kisses (Kunal--don't let that dog lick inside your mouth!!!) and Howard's "Should I leave the room?"

And as much as I was hoping that Raj would finally get a girl he could relate to, I'm having to agree that there isn't much spark or depth so far.  Being spoiled, I know how things are going to be by the end, but I think next season could go on either way, though I think they'd have to step up the writing for the character.  She wasn't nearly as flaky in this episode as she has been, but they don't seem to be developing her very well.  I think Raj needs someone a little more...something.  I had hoped she would work out, but I don't know that they've formed this character very well.

 

Does Raj's dog have a name?

 

Bernie's little scene with Penny was so short it almost isn't worth commenting on, but I loved her little power-mad comment about being able to destroy the microorganisms.  She'd make a great supervillian...

 

Anyway, I LOVED it!

[Ar Diem]

Yes, but that's something we'll have to see in future episodes. In this one, she had her moment of telling that to Leonard and then went to Sheldon to show appreciation for having him in her life. But also, the more I watch this show the more I realize that they don't really do big epiphanies or catalysts as other shows tend to do. It seems to be a constant addition of little things and the characters kind of change without any obvious moment that makes you go "Oh, there it is!". It's kind of more realistic in a way, since dramatic epiphanies don't usually happen that often in life, but from a viewer point of view I can see why that can be frustrating at times. I'm hoping they will continue to build on this with Penny next season, we'll have to see.

 

 

Maybe they will.  I doubt they mess with the formula much though and this epiphany really doesn't have to translate to change either.  I mean if she smiled slightly more you might interpret that to her being happier.

 

I am probably just really ready for this season to be over and have them come back in 7 with a new game plan.

[Letícia Parsons Jackson]

I really enjoyed this episode! Much better than I expected :D 

The final was such a great scene, I laughed so hard, even being sick LOL

I haven't understand all the lines, but when I'm able to see it with subtitles I might have some interesting thoughts to share here

[Moonbase]

I liked this one too.

 

I'm totally with Shelly about them cancelling shows when are incomplete. It's the worst thing ever. I'm really happy that they mentioned Buffy the Vampire Slayer…. FINALLY! awesome show. I've been waiting for this so long.

Amy really irritated Sheldon in this one, but his reactions were quite funny. When she said 'sometimes people seek the comfort of physical contact', the hair went up on the back of my neck. Creepy as heck. You have to hand it to Mayim, she's such a good actress.

Penny's 'My life is exciting right now' made me go... awwww. It was cool when Sheldon completed everything at the end. Then when he said "I love you too" to Penny, that was just super cute. 

[BillF63]

I loved the spisode too. Very solid and funny! I must say I am so glad  Mayim is on the show as Amy. She adds so much to this series I am glad they have her!!

[Ibid]

The episode was ok. But it was all over the place with no continuity, no science, and worst of all - no humor...or at least very little.

Sheldon learned nothing and lied to Amy. Amy continues to try to change Sheldon. Where is the couple that worked together to pull ruses over on their friends, deliberately disobeyed Mrs. Cooper, and saw themselves as equals?

Penny is just plain lazy. She said herself, "I'm cute, I get by." That's all she aspires to...to get by. She was possibly the cutest in Nebraska, but she found her talents lacking in "the big city". It's sad such a young women can only find passion in a man and his friends.

I want to laugh out loud! Where are the laughs?

[Mars]

Aw, Ibid, I'm with you as far as missing the Amy/Sheldon tag team. I really hope we'll get some of that back next season. I think of season 6 as Sheldon's season of sexual bewilderment, and his frustration has really coloured their interactions. Perhaps next season we'll get a different theme and there'll be more companionship and wacky antics from the two. I also notice that the writers seem to be dialling down Amy's sexual advances to less ridiculous levels (like in this episode when she hinted that she could comfort him physically with, I assume, a hug. She did want him to "wake her up" with a kiss when she was dressed as sleeping beauty a while ago, but there've been less blatantly sexual advances like the ones in season 5).

I don't think she was trying to change him though. She was only trying to help him so that his compulsion wouldn't cause him so much distress.

[Moonbase]

I don't think she was trying to change him though. She was only trying to help him so that his compulsion wouldn't cause him so much distress.

 

Yeah she was. And he never asked her too either. He enjoys his compulsions. A little too much Still it made for a decent episode.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Moonbase

[Ar Diem]

Aw, Ibid, I'm with you as far as missing the Amy/Sheldon tag team. I really hope we'll get some of that back next season. I think of season 6 as Sheldon's season of sexual bewilderment, and his frustration has really coloured their interactions. Perhaps next season we'll get a different theme and there'll be more companionship and wacky antics from the two. I also notice that the writers seem to be dialling down Amy's sexual advances to less ridiculous levels (like in this episode when she hinted that she could comfort him physically with, I assume, a hug. She did want him to "wake her up" with a kiss when she was dressed as sleeping beauty a while ago, but there've been less blatantly sexual advances like the ones in season 5).

I don't think she was trying to change him though. She was only trying to help him so that his compulsion wouldn't cause him so much distress.

 

I think from Ibid's perspective this was more like Sheldon being Amy's patient than being a couple.  Change is a natural part of any relationship to some degree but you don't want to feel like a patient.  There was enough meh things for me about the episode I didn't focus in on that aspect but I can see how it would be cringe-worthy.

[tmp]

Someone in another thread suggested that Amy outsmarted Sheldon.  She purposely frustrated him the way he is frustrating her sexually.  She left her bag of tricks behind, knowing that he would finish it all when she left, so that she didn't just torture him and leave him hanging.  I'm not sure if I think the writers were thinking about all that or not, but it's definitely an interesting theory.

[Convict13]

Certainly not my favourite of the year, a nice episode, I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it either.  I'm not too sure why either.  Amy and Sheldon were funny together, Leonard and Penny were cute, Howard was a bit like his old self, and Raj and his dog were cute too.  I'm mentioned before that I didn't want Raj to get a girlfriend and I still think it is the wrong path to take his character down.  I watched it twice and their scenes together seem weak to me,  I don't get any chemistry between him and Lucy at all.  His dog is super cute!  

 

I would give this a 7 out of 10

[vasu]

Someone in another thread suggested that Amy outsmarted Sheldon.  She purposely frustrated him the way he is frustrating her sexually.  She left her bag of tricks behind, knowing that he would finish it all when she left, so that she didn't just torture him and leave him hanging.  I'm not sure if I think the writers were thinking about all that or not, but it's definitely an interesting theory.

 

If this were true clearly Amy would have had a moment after she goes out of the apartment..... But they did'nt.... so clearly the writers were not thinking about all that 

 

And it was clearly implied that she was trying to help Sheldon because she saw him being upset over the cancellation....

[Convict13]

If this were true clearly Amy would have had a moment after she goes out of the apartment..... But they did'nt.... so clearly the writers were not thinking about all that 

 

And it was clearly implied that she was trying to help Sheldon because she saw him being upset over the cancellation....

 

yep I think it is simply her trying to help him, not so much change him.

[Ibid]

Aw, Ibid, I'm with you as far as missing the Amy/Sheldon tag team. I really hope we'll get some of that back next season. I think of season 6 as Sheldon's season of sexual bewilderment, and his frustration has really coloured their interactions. Perhaps next season we'll get a different theme and there'll be more companionship and wacky antics from the two. I also notice that the writers seem to be dialling down Amy's sexual advances to less ridiculous levels (like in this episode when she hinted that she could comfort him physically with, I assume, a hug. She did want him to "wake her up" with a kiss when she was dressed as sleeping beauty a while ago, but there've been less blatantly sexual advances like the ones in season 5).

I don't think she was trying to change him though. She was only trying to help him so that his compulsion wouldn't cause him so much distress.

Hi Mars, I think your last comment about Amy trying to help Sheldon rather than change him has some merit. I'll think on that. Thanks. Edited April 27, 2013 by Ibid

[annieogly]

The episode was ok. But it was all over the place with no continuity, no science, and worst of all - no humor...or at least very little.

Sheldon learned nothing and lied to Amy. Amy continues to try to change Sheldon. Where is the couple that worked together to pull ruses over on their friends, deliberately disobeyed Mrs. Cooper, and saw themselves as equals?

Penny is just plain lazy. She said herself, "I'm cute, I get by." That's all she aspires to...to get by. She was possibly the cutest in Nebraska, but she found her talents lacking in "the big city". It's sad such a young women can only find passion in a man and his friends.

I want to laugh out loud! Where are the laughs?

 

Ibid you articulated everything I was thinking. No laughs, no continuity. I wonder what the ratings have been this season; higher or lower than the fall which was funny and classic.

Mars' opinion that Amy was just trying to help Sheldon is true too; it's a sad true female trope that women help the men in their lives by trying to change them.

 

I

[koops]

Yeah, like Penny and Leonard never tried to "help" Sheldon before. 

 

 

Amy didn't try to get rid of his compulsion. She tried to HELP him LESSEN his compulsion. She said "So that the need for closure isn't so overwhelming". She didn't say "You need to get rid of this", she was just suggesting it can be harmful when it reaches certain levels. And even Sheldon himself admitted he has a problem.

 

I really have an issue with this whole idea that Amy is trying to change Sheldon. She isn't. She's an influence in his life just like Leonard and Penny were before her.  And his mother before them. When Penny used to tell Sheldon what was appropriate behavior for a situation nobody used to complain that she is trying to change Sheldon and Sheldon shouldn't change for anybody. Same with Leonard. Same with his mother. They give him tips, they give him advice, sometimes he takes them, sometimes he doesn't, just like any stubborn person with a strong personality does. The difference with Amy is simply that he trusts her more, and he is more willing to follow her lead. And they are closer than he's ever been with any other person. There have been tons of examples where he follows her suggestions or even outright asks for them (Priya, the haircut, the funeral, just to make an example from each season), whereas he never asks anybody else. Because he feels she's his intellectual equal so he does listen to what she has to say. Just like there have been tons of examples where he doesn't. 

 

But yet, when Amy gives him suggestions or tells him maybe he should do something differently everyone is up in arms that she's "trying to change him". She thinks he's brilliant, she loves his quirks, and she thinks their intellectually compatible. Pushing him a little on certain minor things isn't trying to 'change him', it's called a relationship. 

 

Leonard is "changing" Penny. Is that a tv torpe too? 

[Moonbase]

Yeah, like Penny and Leonard never tried to "help" Sheldon before. 

 

 

Amy didn't try to get rid of his compulsion. She tried to HELP him LESSEN his compulsion. She said "So that the need for closure isn't so overwhelming". She didn't say "You need to get rid of this", she was just suggesting it can be harmful when it reaches certain levels. And even Sheldon himself admitted he has a problem.

 

I really have an issue with this whole idea that Amy is trying to change Sheldon. She isn't. She's an influence in his life just like Leonard and Penny were before her.  And his mother before them. When Penny used to tell Sheldon what was appropriate behavior for a situation nobody used to complain that she is trying to change Sheldon and Sheldon shouldn't change for anybody. Same with Leonard. Same with his mother. They give him tips, they give him advice, sometimes he takes them, sometimes he doesn't, just like any stubborn person with a strong personality does. The difference with Amy is simply that he trusts her more, and he is more willing to follow her lead. And they are closer than he's ever been with any other person. There have been tons of examples where he follows her suggestions or even outright asks for them (Priya, the haircut, the funeral, just to make an example from each season), whereas he never asks anybody else. Because he feels she's his intellectual equal so he does listen to what she has to say. Just like there have been tons of examples where he doesn't. 

 

But yet, when Amy gives him suggestions or tells him maybe he should do something differently everyone is up in arms that she's "trying to change him". She thinks he's brilliant, she loves his quirks, and she thinks their intellectually compatible. Pushing him a little on certain minor things isn't trying to 'change him', it's called a relationship. 

 

Leonard is "changing" Penny. Is that a tv torpe too? 

 

Oh here we go. First of all Penny and Leonard never did that. Penny would only act when Sheldon was having a crisis and desperately needed it. Leonard and Sheldon have had their run-ins but Leonard only stepped in when things got out of hand as well. Even his mother knows there are things she can only pray about. It would be different if Sheldon were having a crisis with his OCD and needed her to help. But that was not the case.

Of course she is trying to change him. It all depends on if you enjoy the fact she is attempting this. Which I'm pretty sure a good many fans are. I actually enjoyed the episode myself but I still think their relationship is well messed up.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Moonbase

[Nogravitasatall]

Hey @moonbase.

Point of clarification please. Is it your view that their relationship is messed up or is the fact that they have a relationship that is messed up?

[Moonbase]

Hey @moonbase.

Point of clarification please. Is it your view that their relationship is messed up or is the fact that they have a relationship that is messed up?

 

I used to be a shamy, this will probably surprise a few peps here. You might even find some of my old posts about that kicking about. Now I just prefer them as friends.

[Berliner]

An Okay episode for me. Not many laughs, unfortunately.