Episodes 6.21 The Closure Alternative (Apr. 25)

[koops]

Oh here we go. First of all Penny and Leonard never did that. Penny would only act when Sheldon was having a crisis and desperately needed it. Leonard and Sheldon have had their run-ins but Leonard only stepped in when things got out of hand as well. Even his mother knows there are things she can only pray about. It would be different if Sheldon were having a crisis with his OCD and needed her to help. But that was not the case.

Of course she is trying to change him. It all depends on if you enjoy the fact she is attempting this. Which I'm pretty sure a good many fans are. I actually enjoyed the episode myself but I still think their relationship is well messed up.

 

He was calling up a TV station repeatedly to try and re-instate a TV show, how is that not having a crisis? And Amy was there to witness it. The rest of the episode was just an excuse to have a bunch of funny gags with a neuroscience flavor to it so they'd have an excuse to bring science into the episode. I'd hardly say this is Amy trying to "change him". This was just another TLA. Actually it was even less than TLA because this had no relevance to their relationship whatsoever, if not to show that Sheldon is willing to at least try and listen to her.

 

Again, *Sheldon* admitted he had a problem with closure once she made her point and he couldn't refute it. And *he* asked what she suggested as a course of treatment. She was only helping him for his own benefit. What difference does it make to their relationship whether or not he is obsessed with finishing stuff? If she really wanted to "change him" to benefit her, she would have pushed against his germphobia so they can have sex. Not about finishing stuff of all things.

 

Obviously, she's his girlfriend, of course the relationship is going to be different than the one he has with Leonard or Penny and her influence is going to be greater. We can't compare how he reacts to her to how he reacts to L/P and viceversa, because the dynamic is different by definition, she's not meant to be like another one of the group. The whole point of Amy on the show is that she provides new situations for Sheldon to be in and react to. And Leonard and Penny care up to a certain point, they're not the ones who are in a relationship with him.

[rachelshamyfan]

OK I liked a lot about this episode, the dog licking thing not so much! Enjoyed all the shamy stuff, was very funny

Edited April 27, 2013 by rachygd

[Moonbase]

He was calling up a TV station repeatedly to try and re-instate a TV show, how is that not having a crisis? And Amy was there to witness it. The rest of the episode was just an excuse to have a bunch of funny gags with a neuroscience flavor to it so they'd have an excuse to bring science into the episode. I'd hardly say this is Amy trying to "change him". This was just another TLA. Actually it was even less than TLA because this had no relevance to their relationship whatsoever, if not to show that Sheldon is willing to at least try and listen to her.

 

Again, *Sheldon* admitted he had a problem with closure once she made her point and he couldn't refute it. And *he* asked what she suggested as a course of treatment. She was only helping him for his own benefit. What difference does it make to their relationship whether or not he is obsessed with finishing stuff? If she really wanted to "change him" to benefit her, she would have pushed against his germphobia so they can have sex. Not about finishing stuff of all things.

 

Obviously, she's his girlfriend, of course the relationship is going to be different than the one he has with Leonard or Penny and her influence is going to be greater. We can't compare how he reacts to her to how he reacts to L/P and viceversa, because the dynamic is different by definition, she's not meant to be like another one of the group. The whole point of Amy on the show is that she provides new situations for Sheldon to be in and react to. And Leonard and Penny care up to a certain point, they're not the ones who are in a relationship with him.

 

Sheldon called up the syfy channel? Whoopee, that's just another day for him, certainly not a crisis. I've felt like doing that a few times myself. I find the fact you defend her over something so blatantly controlling, pretty funny in itself. You lot have your opinion, I have mine.

 

[Devashri]

looks like there are a some members here who will go any lengths to defend Amy, as if she has no flaws. They try and give a "rational explanation" but in my opinion fail miserably

Edited April 27, 2013 by Devashri

[djvang]

I think the Sheldon/Amy interaction in this episode shows why it's become just a stereotypical TV romcom where the men are all immature, bumbling fools and the women are wise and patient and love them anyway in spite of all their faults. It's been done a thousand times but apparently there's a large audience for it.

[carl1970]

I really enjoyed L/P in this episode. Their foundation is getting stronger and stronger.

[queuetee]

Regardless of how some people want to read the S/A interaction, I really, really hated his two comments-- "sucker" and "I'd wish you were dead". Can't get  past those----nothing there shows any kind of affection and nothing she did helped S since after she left he ran around and completed all the tasks.

[AdorkablyMe]

Just saw the episode this morning. Me likey

[stardustmelody]

I enjoyed the episode and thought it was a fun one. 

[CaitAmber]

The only part of the episode I wanted to skip over is when Raj was making out with his dog... I can't even.

Edited April 27, 2013 by CaitAmber

[annieogly]

I think the Sheldon/Amy interaction in this episode shows why it's become just a stereotypical TV romcom where the men are all immature, bumbling fools and the women are wise and patient and love them anyway in spite of all their faults. It's been done a thousand times but apparently there's a large audience for it.

 

So true; I watch sometimes but I find the stereotypes of men and women insulting. Many of us like Moonbase enjoyed season 4 Amy and Sheldon. I too enjoyed them as a couple previously.

[sarah7]

Oh here we go. First of all Penny and Leonard never did that. Penny would only act when Sheldon was having a crisis and desperately needed it. Leonard and Sheldon have had their run-ins but Leonard only stepped in when things got out of hand as well. Even his mother knows there are things she can only pray about. It would be different if Sheldon were having a crisis with his OCD and needed her to help. But that was not the case.

Of course she is trying to change him. It all depends on if you enjoy the fact she is attempting this. Which I'm pretty sure a good many fans are. I actually enjoyed the episode myself but I still think their relationship is well messed up.

 

What about Penny helping him with his wooden acting in FWF just a few episodes back?

 

I don't remember Sheldon facing a life crisis then, unlike this ocassion, he was more than happy and content with his acting skills, however, Penny saw he had a problem and that she could help him with some tips, and she did.

 

What's different with what Amy did this past episode?

It's exactly the same situation: She saw him going overboard with one of his obsessions  (and, actually, having a kinda bad time with it) and she offered to help, and he accepted  he had the problem and he agreed to try and participate, what's so frigging horrible about that?

You can't even argue she was trying to get something out of the deal, to help him lessen this particular compulsion would make him fall into her arms?, it's not the kind of quirk of him that irks her either, how many times we had seen her complain about this issue before, so we can suppose she desperately wanted to get rid of it for selfish reasons?

 

If we Shamy or Amy fans are being acussed of trying to make up excuses for her all the time, those who doesn't like her or their relationship could also try to be a bit impartial and stop trying to put faults on her all the time.

[Kasey]

What I think is the beauty part of all the pairings - Lenny, Shamy and HB is that through their perspective relationships they've managed to grow and bring out some really nice things about each other.  Penny has made Leonard cooler and more confident and Leonard has shown Penny how a real man should and does treat her.  Bernadette made Howard so much less icky and more mature.  Sheldon has come so far from where he was in season one and I think we have to contribute mainly to his relationship with Amy. (I know that Penny and Leonard and the rest helped too).

 

To me, Amy was trying to help Sheldon.  Since Sheldon is so scientifically based, she used that type of approach.  I saw nothing wrong with that in the least.  Now just because it didn't end with the desired results had more to do with Sheldon's stubbornness than anything else. 

[annieogly]

What about Penny helping him with his wooden acting in FWF just a few episodes back?

 

I don't remember Sheldon facing a life crisis then, unlike this ocassion, he was more than happy and content with his acting skills, however, Penny saw he had a problem and that she could help him with some tips, and she did.

 

What's different with what Amy did this past episode?

It's exactly the same situation: She saw him going overboard with one of his obsessions  (and, actually, having a kinda bad time with it) and she offered to help, and he accepted  he had the problem and he agreed to try and participate, what's so frigging horrible about that?

You can't even argue she was trying to get something out of the deal, to help him lessen this particular compulsion would make him fall into her arms?, it's not the kind of quirk of him that irks her either, how many times we had seen her complain about this issue before, so we can suppose she desperately wanted to get rid of it for selfish reasons?

 

If we Shamy or Amy fans are being acussed of trying to make up excuses for her all the time, those who doesn't like her or their relationship could also try to be a bit impartial and stop trying to put faults on her all the time.

 

No your logic is faulty. Penny helped Sheldon be a better actor; did Amy help Sheldon be a better obsessive?  It's the writers who are to blame for Amy being all over the place and passive-aggressive. Sheldon has regressed this season, he's crude, misogynistic, racist and childlike. I would say the Shamy fans want this couple so much that they are overlooking the lack of character development.

[Tensor]

I wonder what the ratings have been this season; higher or lower than the fall which was funny and classic.

Annie, the live + same day for episodes before the first of the year averaged about 16.0 million. The episodes after the first of the year have averaged 17.9 million. The 18-49 demo share is also higher. During the first half of the year there were no episodes above a 6.0 and only two above 5.5. During the second half, there were three episodes above 6.0 and six that above 5.5. The averages were 5.0 for the first half and 5.8 for the second half. A quick look shows that TBBT, at a 5.2 average) is the only show above 4.5 (actually 4.2 is the second highest). If you want I can look around a bit more to try and nail it down.

The number for after the first may come down as the shows at the end of the year tend to have a lower number of viewers, as they go outdoors due to better weather and more light. But, ALL the shows drop, and TBBT keeps the same number compared to the other shows, as a percentage of all viewers. The Live + 3 day, for number of viewers is at almost 19 million average for the year.

[sarah7]

No your logic is faulty. Penny helped Sheldon be a better actor; did Amy help Sheldon be a better obsessive?  It's the writers who are to blame for Amy being all over the place and passive-aggressive. Sheldon has regressed this season, he's crude, misogynistic, racist and childlike. I would say the Shamy fans want this couple so much that they are overlooking the lack of character development.

 

A "better obsessive"? hummmm, ok, if you say so.

 

Baby, I don't know about my fellow shippers, but I'm not overlooking anything, thank you very much.

I have my very own opinion around the couple dynamic this season, I'm not going to elaborate about it right here, right now, but there are things I like and things I definitely don't like.

 

However, this was not the point we were discussing now, neither we were discussing the outcomes of the influence both girls were inflicting in Sheldon, but the intention.

 

My point was: In this particula example, both girls' intention was just to help him, doesn't matter if he learned something at the end or not, but Amy is the only one being acussed of "trying to change him", implying her doing was all wrong.

 

In all honesty, Sheldon being able to lessen a bit some of his obsessions, wouldn't it help him to become a better person (0r, a "better obsessive", as you say)? what's so horrible about his girlfriend trying to help him to achieve that? Of course he is not going to do it, because he is the "quirky one" of the show, and I'm sure next time we see him acting, he wouldn't have suddenly became Laurence Olivier, doesn't matter how many good tips he had received from Penny, don't you think?

 

Isn't wooden acting part of what Sheldon intrinsically is? why Penny, whyyyyyyyyyy?, can't you accept him just as he is??????? No, you want him to become "normal", to act just as everyone else, to lose part of his personality, shame on you, shame on you!!!!!!!

 

And BTW, Amy accepted (and even loved and praised) his acting as it naturally was, remember?

Edited April 28, 2013 by sarah7

[netmouse]

Best episode this season for me.

Amy was brilliant!!

[Devashri]

No your logic is faulty. Penny helped Sheldon be a better actor; did Amy help Sheldon be a better obsessive?  It's the writers who are to blame for Amy being all over the place and passive-aggressive. Sheldon has regressed this season, he's crude, misogynistic, racist and childlike. I would say the Shamy fans want this couple so much that they are overlooking the lack of character development.

 

Omg I agree so so much!!

[Guest DroneInTheSun]

So Amy-fans are the ones who will find her all the excuses in the world but Amy-haters are the objective ones who would never ever let their view of Amy taint an episode? Okay then.

 

Some of you guys are so obsessed with hating Amy, the Shamy AND Shamy shippers that your grasping at all straws possible is turning completely ridiculous.

 

PS: There is no such thing as a collective view that is the one of all Shamy shippers. We all have our disagreement on the way the couple is handled lately. Thank you for not putting everyone in the same bag, especially when you visibly know nothing of what is actually going on in our shipper group.

[Nogravitasatall]

Hey @lost, did Amy say that as shown in your avatar? I missed that line. I'm not saying she shouldn't say but I don't recall it. Usually she's more just "what the hell, Sheldon?", then some resigned frustration and back to hopefulness.

[Guest DroneInTheSun]

Not at all! This gif is from The Parking Spot Escalation, when Bernadette asks if she's hostile because her sex life is theoritical. 

She simply has a "too tired with your bs Imma slice your throat" face that made me laugh so I added that. 

[Moonbase]

What about Penny helping him with his wooden acting in FWF just a few episodes back?

 

I don't remember Sheldon facing a life crisis then, unlike this ocassion, he was more than happy and content with his acting skills, however, Penny saw he had a problem and that she could help him with some tips, and she did.

 

What's different with what Amy did this past episode?

It's exactly the same situation: She saw him going overboard with one of his obsessions  (and, actually, having a kinda bad time with it) and she offered to help, and he accepted  he had the problem and he agreed to try and participate, what's so frigging horrible about that?

You can't even argue she was trying to get something out of the deal, to help him lessen this particular compulsion would make him fall into her arms?, it's not the kind of quirk of him that irks her either, how many times we had seen her complain about this issue before, so we can suppose she desperately wanted to get rid of it for selfish reasons?

 

If we Shamy or Amy fans are being acussed of trying to make up excuses for her all the time, those who doesn't like her or their relationship could also try to be a bit impartial and stop trying to put faults on her all the time.

 

Penny helping him with acting? that's not even remotely the same. He enjoyed that.

 

OCD takes years to overcome and would probably require a trained professional. You certainly couldn't fix it, over one intense session. It was done for laughs. It was a good episode, and it showed that there are some things Sheldon does not want 'help' with. I would be upset if she solved Sheldon's OCD. What would be left?

[koops]

Beside the fact that, again, she was not trying to cure him of his OCD ("There's a whole field of behavioural neuroscience to help retrain your brain so STUFF LIKE THIS BOTHERS YOU LESS"/"... so the need for closure won't be SO OVERWHELMING"), and that compulsive need for closure is slightly different from OCD anyway, and she has a PhD in Neurobiology, she's not an idiot who thinks that this will cure him off the bat, I would hope there is more to Sheldon as a character than the fact he needs closure for everything and he knocks three times. He's extremely multi-layered and that what makes him interesting, unlike Raj for example, where you take away his mutism and there's not much left. Not that they'll ever get rid of his OCD anyway. Amy loves his quirks and stated so outright on a number of occasions this year. It's when they become detrimental that she steps in, like anybody who cares would. 

 

I think what I take away from the episode is that Sheldon was willing to give it a try but that it didn't work, for a number of reasons. Just the fact that he was willing to try says a lot, imo.

[Moonbase]

Amy is not a therapist. She cuts up brains and gives cigarettes to monkeys. No doubt she knows about cognitive therapy in humans but it's not exactly her field. Not that I care about that, I found the tests funny. As I wrote earlier, it was done for laughs.

And yes, Sheldon is interesting but his quirks are what makes him that way. If they'd keep these two on the same level, they could have taken them anywhere IMHO. But they have stepped Amy well ahead of him and it's making their relationship look like a student/pupil arrangement. The only thing next to happen is for him to respond to it and change. That's what is ahead for season 7, or at least it feels that way now.

[koops]

Amy is not a therapist. She cuts up brains and gives cigarettes to monkeys. No doubt she knows about cognitive therapy in humans but it's not exactly her field. Not that I care about that, I found the tests funny. As I wrote earlier, it was done for laughs.

And yes, Sheldon is interesting but his quirks are what makes him that way. If they'd keep these two on the same level, they could have taken them anywhere IMHO. But they have stepped Amy well ahead of him and it's making their relationship look like a student/pupil arrangement. The only thing next to happen is for him to respond to it and change. That's what is ahead for season 7, or at least it feels that way now.

 

Of couse, and I think she's very aware of the fact that she's not a therapist. I don't think the episode was trying to imply she was. She obviously has some knowledge on the matter though (addiction and compulsive behavior share some traits) and her "exercizes" where more to be taken like tips than an actual therapy.

 

As for the student/pupil thing, yes, it's true the latter half of the season has them more in that setting. I don't mind it and I find it endearing, because I think that Amy has learned a lot by hanging out with the girls and she's enthusiastically trying pass on that knowledge to Sheldon, but at the same time I do agree that I don't want this to be the only dynamic we will see between them. I like them much better in episodes like Parking Lot where they are partners in crime. A nice balance between the two dynamics would work great.