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6.22 The Proton Resurgence (May 2)


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And I don´t know from were some got the idea that married couples always talk about having Children in some point of life. Make me feel I am not in the time/century I am thinking I am. I went back in the time and I didn´t noticed? In which moment I was exposed to a time machine??

Every married couple I know has had the conversation(and being as old as I am means I've known a lot of married couples). Whether the decision is to have them or not to have them, there is a conversation on whether or not to have children. And going back in time would be going back to a time where availability of contraception was rather rare. Not to mention just the general USE of contraception, by a majority of women, was even more rare and recent. The relative rare use of contraception prior to around 1870 (the birthrate fell ~30% during that decade in England), simply means that there was no conversation on whether to have children. Women either abstained or were pretty much guaranteed, at some point in their marriage, to become pregnant, with no conversation. Hell, up until the late 1960s, when the law was overturned, it was illegal, in the US, to Mail contraceptive devices of all kinds (condoms, pills, etc) under the Comstock law from 1870. At some level, Howard and Bernadette have already had this conversation, prior to their marriage (see The Shiny Trinket Maneuver), but it wasn't fully resolved. Which means their revisit to their pre nuptial talk is expected.

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Every married couple I know has had the conversation(and being as old as I am means I've known a lot of married couples). Whether the decision is to have them or not to have them, there is a conversation on whether or not to have children. And going back in time would be going back to a time where availability of contraception was rather rare. Not to mention just the general USE of contraception, by a majority of women, was even more rare and recent. The relative rare use of contraception prior to around 1870 (the birthrate fell ~30% during that decade in England), simply means that there was no conversation on whether to have children. Women either abstained or were pretty much guaranteed, at some point in their marriage, to become pregnant, with no conversation. Hell, up until the late 1960s, when the law was overturned, it was illegal, in the US, to Mail contraceptive devices of all kinds (condoms, pills, etc) under the Comstock law from 1870. At some level, Howard and Bernadette have already had this conversation, prior to their marriage (see The Shiny Trinket Maneuver), but it wasn't fully resolved. Which means their revisit to their pre nuptial talk is expected.

 

This ^ is what I meant when I said it's normal for married couples to discuss having kids. 

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Of course it's normal. I don't think that's the issue.

This is a story. For the writers to bring up the subject again, strongly suggests it will happen. Watch out for a pregnancy next season. Its not the road I'd hope they'd take but it will happen.

 

Also.... contraception was practised as far back as Egyptian times. The aboriginals had the earliest example of it that we can confirm. It wasn't until the late 1800s that it was frowned upon, and put a stop too. Modern religion was the reason. Much of the knowledge was then lost.

Edited by Moonbase

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And I don´t know from were some got the idea that married couples always talk about having Children in some point of life. Make me feel I am not in the time/century I am thinking I am. I went back in the time and I didn´t noticed? In which moment I was exposed to a time machine?? An old coffee machine count? :icon_eek:

 

I'm not married but I am in a long term committed relationship and my partner and I have talked about whether we want to have children. I don't think it's an old fashioned thing to do at all. But it is the right thing to do and anybody in long term serious relationship will end up discussing it at some point. Surely you want to know whether the person you intend to spend the rest of your life with wants children at all, how many etc. At least then both parties have equal expectations.

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Of course it's normal. I don't think that's the issue.

This is a story. For the writers to bring up the subject again, strongly suggests it will happen. Watch out for a pregnancy next season. Its not the road I'd hope they'd take but it will happen.

 

Also.... contraception was practised as far back as Egyptian times. The aboriginals had the earliest example of it that we can confirm. It wasn't until the late 1800s that it was frowned upon, and put a stop too. Modern religion was the reason. Much of the knowledge was then lost.

This is what I feel. They just talked about this before, it is not compulsory to bring up the subject again, but they chose to do that.

Edited by Lissie

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Just because Howard and Bernie might talk about having kids doesn't mean that they're going to be having a baby for the S7 finale.

 

I do think that it's a valid subject for them to explore, but I don't think that means it will be the subject of every conversation they have from now on.  And even if they do decide that they want to have children, that also doesn't mean there will be a baby on the show any time soon.

There's a lot of ways they can use that over the course of the show, anything from them making the decision, to trying it out with Raj's dog again or something, to not being able to get pregnant to whatever.

 

But I do think that they'll be discussing it a bit more.  I don't think it's a sign of the apocalypse.

 

And I don't think that the writers/producers decided to "change" the show from a geek-themed show to a rom-com show.  I think that it was just the natural progression of the story, since they began by exploring Leonard's attempts to forge a romantic relationship with Penny.

That aspect of the story was always there.  For the other guys to eventually become involved with women is just part of the ongoing story.  While the relationship developments may seem to outweigh the geek/science-focused stories, I don't think it's a matter of "Oh, the geeky stuff isn't working, let's do a rom-com!"

The show was never slipping enough in the ratings to warrant some kind of revamp, which isn't what happened anyway.  Even if the ratings had slipped a little at one point, it isn't as if the show was failing or that people were walking away from it.

 

But I do think that if the characters and the stories hadn't progressed somewhere besides doing the same old thing, the show would have begun to slip.  They created characters that the audience cared about and then they took them down a natural, and in my opinion, organic path toward where they are now.

And even with relationships, the guys are not like other guys on other shows, and the relationships aren't entirely like others, either.

While there are always going to be some similarities, IMO, that's because we're all humans and all humans have essentially the same issues to deal with as we progress.

 

I love the science/geek thing as much as the next person, but I also don't believe that the show can only tell one kind of story or that it has to stay in one place in order to be unique or interesting.

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Just finished seeing it..... I'm glad i did not rush to see this :p

 

Never heard about Bob Nehwart ...google says that he is great comedic actor of old times.....so I guess it was pretty great have him on TBBT....

 

The performances were fine ,But I thought the plot was terribly dull/basic.

 

Arthur reacts with surprise and confusion to Sheldon's eccentricities ---  this joke was played about what 20 times.. same joke again and again and again......so boring...

I thought it would have been better if the episode was not build around the Prof.......as there was nothing new and it merely looked like an excuse for Sheldon to fawn over someone...

 

The B plot with cinamon or rather I say F plot was even more tedious....Raj likes females and their skin care products....yeah I get it....it is not funny anymore...

and Howard and Bernie bickering or arguing or flirting or whatever they were doing  was just passable...

 

And I guess Penny did not try any of the experiments from the "101 experiments for cool kids" gift given by Leonard :p

 

Leonard slapping Sheldon was the only laugh out loud moment for me in this episode and the studio audience cheers surely helped it......and Penny playing with the toy rocket was cute.....

 

I voted bad .... :(

Edited by vasu
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Just because Howard and Bernie might talk about having kids doesn't mean that they're going to be having a baby for the S7 finale.

 

I do think that it's a valid subject for them to explore, but I don't think that means it will be the subject of every conversation they have from now on.  And even if they do decide that they want to have children, that also doesn't mean there will be a baby on the show any time soon.

There's a lot of ways they can use that over the course of the show, anything from them making the decision, to trying it out with Raj's dog again or something, to not being able to get pregnant to whatever.

 

But I do think that they'll be discussing it a bit more.  I don't think it's a sign of the apocalypse.

 

And I don't think that the writers/producers decided to "change" the show from a geek-themed show to a rom-com show.  I think that it was just the natural progression of the story, since they began by exploring Leonard's attempts to forge a romantic relationship with Penny.

That aspect of the story was always there.  For the other guys to eventually become involved with women is just part of the ongoing story.  While the relationship developments may seem to outweigh the geek/science-focused stories, I don't think it's a matter of "Oh, the geeky stuff isn't working, let's do a rom-com!"

The show was never slipping enough in the ratings to warrant some kind of revamp, which isn't what happened anyway.  Even if the ratings had slipped a little at one point, it isn't as if the show was failing or that people were walking away from it.

 

But I do think that if the characters and the stories hadn't progressed somewhere besides doing the same old thing, the show would have begun to slip.  They created characters that the audience cared about and then they took them down a natural, and in my opinion, organic path toward where they are now.

And even with relationships, the guys are not like other guys on other shows, and the relationships aren't entirely like others, either.

While there are always going to be some similarities, IMO, that's because we're all humans and all humans have essentially the same issues to deal with as we progress.

 

I love the science/geek thing as much as the next person, but I also don't believe that the show can only tell one kind of story or that it has to stay in one place in order to be unique or interesting.

 

I didn't even think about them not being able to get pregnant. That's a good option, even if they decide to explore it. I said that one of the things that irked me about the way the whole baby business was dealt in this episode was that it seemed like all of a sudden Bernadette went from being VERY unenthusiastic about children to considering it pretty enthusiastically. IMO, the whole push and pull between Howard and Bernadette regarding children is one potential plotline for their relationship that could be milked for several seasons, in order to give them something to work with as a couple, since they're pretty much settled in the status quo right now and there's not much to do with them. So to just sweep Bernadette's dislike of children under the carpet so easily would be a waste of a storyline. But I wouldn't be surprised if we don't hear anything about kids for another year now, knowing how the show has a tendency to ignore stuff for ages.

 

And I totally agree with the part in bold. A romcom by definition has relationship drama (i.e. breakups, cheating, revolving doors of lovers), which none of these couples have (if you exclude Lenny's breakup period - actually that period of the show was probably more of a romcom, due to Leonard dating several women, than it is now). If every single show or movie that has a relationship in it is a romcom, then every single show and movie ever made is a romcom. But I think there's a thread devoted to this debating this topic elsewhere on the forum, so it'd be nice to keep this thread to discuss the current episode. If possible. At all. LOL. 

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And I don't think that the writers/producers decided to "change" the show from a geek-themed show to a rom-com show.  I think that it was just the natural progression of the story, since they began by exploring Leonard's attempts to forge a romantic relationship with Penny.

That aspect of the story was always there.  For the other guys to eventually become involved with women is just part of the ongoing story.  While the relationship developments may seem to outweigh the geek/science-focused stories, I don't think it's a matter of "Oh, the geeky stuff isn't working, let's do a rom-com!"

The show was never slipping enough in the ratings to warrant some kind of revamp, which isn't what happened anyway.  Even if the ratings had slipped a little at one point, it isn't as if the show was failing or that people were walking away from it.

 

But I do think that if the characters and the stories hadn't progressed somewhere besides doing the same old thing, the show would have begun to slip.  They created characters that the audience cared about and then they took them down a natural, and in my opinion, organic path toward where they are now.

And even with relationships, the guys are not like other guys on other shows, and the relationships aren't entirely like others, either.

While there are always going to be some similarities, IMO, that's because we're all humans and all humans have essentially the same issues to deal with as we progress.

 

I love the science/geek thing as much as the next person, but I also don't believe that the show can only tell one kind of story or that it has to stay in one place in order to be unique or interesting.

 

Thank you @phantagrae for capsulizing this old forum debate with a basic truth. There has been no real shift to the show being a rom-com from its "geeky" origin. The title of the show is a clever double meaning giving the central premise.

 

Those who argue that it has changed radically sometimes forget that the Leonard quest for Penny was part of central premise of TBBT. That premise, as seen in the pilot, was the tug of war between the nerd / geek world and the so called normal life. The "rope" was personified by Leonard and the "tuggers" were Penny on one side and Sheldon on the other. All the producers have done is clone this struggle from Leonard and Penny, to Howard and Bernadette, to Sheldon and Amy, to Raj and possibly, Lucy.

 

The basic premise has not changed at all.

Edited by BangerMain
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I would actually argue that adding Bernadette and Amy has cloned the tug from Leonard and Penny to Penny and Amy/Bernadette. I think people often overlook the dynamic in the girls group because of the relationships. Much in the same way Penny claims to have made Leonard "cooler than he used to be", and he is making her more mature than she used to be, she has made the girls cooler while they are showing her a different girl life than what she was used to. She used to be the one that bullied people like Amy and Bernadette (or the guys for that matter), by her own admission. It's a learning experience for her too to be friends with people like them. It just added a female component to it. I wouldn't say there's a tug between normality and nerd world with the other couples, they're their own thing. Penny is the only "normal" one, always has been, always will be. 

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But I think there's a thread devoted to this debating this topic elsewhere on the forum, so it'd be nice to keep this thread to discuss the current episode. If possible. At all. LOL.

 

 

I was about to point out that yet another thread - this time a thread about an episode devoted to Professor Proton and how he motivated Sheldon into science - has devolved into the age-old 'show has become rom-com' debate. :p

 

Agree completely with Phanta's and Spook's points, of course. Also, for those who don't want H/B to go the family way any time soon (I'm one of them), can we hold off on complaining about it till (if and when) it actually happens? Basing criticism on something that hypothetically might happen is a bit far-fetched IMO.

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The topic of babies was brought up in the episode, so it is relevant to this thread. I think the writers have set the groundwork for a baby on the show. Bernadette has completed a U-turn on the subject. I will start preparing my 'I told you so speech' now. :icon_lol:

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The topic of babies was brought up in the episode, so it is relevant to this thread. I think the writers have set the groundwork for a baby on the show. Bernadette has completed a U-turn on the subject. I will start preparing my 'I told you so speech' now. :icon_lol:

 

I think the objection was the topic of geek show vs romcom.

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I was about to point out that yet another thread - this time a thread about an episode devoted to Professor Proton and how he motivated Sheldon into science - has devolved into the age-old 'show has become rom-com' debate. :p

 

Agree completely with Phanta's and Spook's points, of course. Also, for those who don't want H/B to go the family way any time soon (I'm one of them), can we hold off on complaining about it till (if and when) it actually happens? Basing criticism on something that hypothetically might happen is a bit far-fetched IMO.

Dear POMITA, all this happened because when I watched this last episode I felt surprised that Howard&Bernadette started to talk again about having Children and look like they will have them soon. It is like they are preparing them& us for this!!!! I felt this very strong in my heart! And I didn´t like :(  Then I came here and I posted my feelings about this (as lot of people is doing everyday in this forum) Then I started to recieve stones on me. Is my opinion disturbing you all? I am not using the propper words for expressing myself? Can I only post my opinion if it match with "the general opinion"? ? If I post that I love Sheldon, or Jim is cute, etc then it is fine but if I post I don´t like something in the program then I am a bad person?

There are lot of things I agree with you all but there are some thing I don´t agree with you all. Some of you "feel boring" when someone comes and say that TBBT is changing a lot and he/she doesn´t like this. I suppose we all are fans of this program, otherwise we will not be here. Maybe some of you cannot see the changes in the program or like them. But some see this program in a different way than you and doesn´t means they don´t like it. I LOVE TBBT. And when i see something I don´t like in it, I feel I have the right to give my opinion. This threat is about last episode. That is why I posted here my feeling ABOUT LAST EPISODE.

Actually I didn´t like it very much (last episode). Even that Doctor Proton was funny (first time I see him)  Sheldon was not so good from my point of view. And you cannot imagine guys how hard is for me to say this because he is my favourite character for ever :( BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT IN THIS EPISODE FOR ME WAS HOWARD&BERNADETTE STORY and their "baby experience". Maybe for you all the main was Sheldon&Proton but you cannot expect that everybody will be the same as you. I respect your opinions/feelings/posts. I hope you all will do the same with me :icon_rolleyes:

Edited by Lissie
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Also.... contraception was practised as far back as Egyptian times. The aboriginals had the earliest example of it that we can confirm. It wasn't until the late 1800s that it was frowned upon, and put a stop too. Modern religion was the reason. Much of the knowledge was then lost.

Moon, I didn't say practiced. Relatively effective contraception wasn't widely available nor widely used until the late 1800s( that's why I gave the England example). That's when modern(well post Industrial Age) methods made it possible to produce enough (mostly condoms)to make it an option. Much knowledge has ways been lost when modern methods and standards are applied. The reaction of religion, in the late 1800s, was mostly a reaction to contraception being more widely available.

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Just because Howard and Bernie might talk about having kids doesn't mean that they're going to be having a baby for the S7 finale.

 

I do think that it's a valid subject for them to explore, but I don't think that means it will be the subject of every conversation they have from now on.  And even if they do decide that they want to have children, that also doesn't mean there will be a baby on the show any time soon.

There's a lot of ways they can use that over the course of the show, anything from them making the decision, to trying it out with Raj's dog again or something, to not being able to get pregnant to whatever.

 

But I do think that they'll be discussing it a bit more.  I don't think it's a sign of the apocalypse.

 

And I don't think that the writers/producers decided to "change" the show from a geek-themed show to a rom-com show.  I think that it was just the natural progression of the story, since they began by exploring Leonard's attempts to forge a romantic relationship with Penny.

That aspect of the story was always there.  For the other guys to eventually become involved with women is just part of the ongoing story.  While the relationship developments may seem to outweigh the geek/science-focused stories, I don't think it's a matter of "Oh, the geeky stuff isn't working, let's do a rom-com!"

The show was never slipping enough in the ratings to warrant some kind of revamp, which isn't what happened anyway.  Even if the ratings had slipped a little at one point, it isn't as if the show was failing or that people were walking away from it.

 

But I do think that if the characters and the stories hadn't progressed somewhere besides doing the same old thing, the show would have begun to slip.  They created characters that the audience cared about and then they took them down a natural, and in my opinion, organic path toward where they are now.

And even with relationships, the guys are not like other guys on other shows, and the relationships aren't entirely like others, either.

While there are always going to be some similarities, IMO, that's because we're all humans and all humans have essentially the same issues to deal with as we progress.

 

I love the science/geek thing as much as the next person, but I also don't believe that the show can only tell one kind of story or that it has to stay in one place in order to be unique or interesting.

I didn't say it wasn't working. The show was still great. But I think they were running out of fresh material so they decided to boldly go where everyone has already been. Thanks for acknowledging that the relationship developments now outweigh the geek/science-focused stories. That's been my whole complaint about the show. And I know that's a minority opinion. :icon_neutral:

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Dear POMITA, all this happened because when I watched this last episode I felt surprised that Howard&Bernadette started to talk again about having Children and look like they will have them soon. It is like they are preparing them& us for this!!!! I felt this very strong in my heart! And I didn´t like :(  Then I came here and I posted my feelings about this (as lot of people is doing everyday in this forum) Then I started to recieve stones on me. Is my opinion disturbing you all? I am not using the propper words for expressing myself? Can I only post my opinion if it match with "the general opinion"? ? If I post that I love Sheldon, or Jim is cute, etc then it is fine but if I post I don´t like something in the program then I am a bad person?

There are lot of things I agree with you all but there are some thing I don´t agree with you all. Some of you "feel boring" when someone comes and say that TBBT is changing a lot and he/she doesn´t like this. I suppose we all are fans of this program, otherwise we will not be here. Maybe some of you cannot see the changes in the program or like them. But some see this program in a different way than you and doesn´t means they don´t like it. I LOVE TBBT. And when i see something I don´t like in it, I feel I have the right to give my opinion. This threat is about last episode. That is why I posted here my feeling ABOUT LAST EPISODE.

Actually I didn´t like it very much (last episode). Even that Doctor Proton was funny (first time I see him)  Sheldon was not so good from my point of view. And you cannot imagine guys how hard is for me to say this because he is my favourite character for ever :( BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT IN THIS EPISODE FOR ME WAS HOWARD&BERNADETTE STORY and their "baby experience". Maybe for you all the main was Sheldon&Proton but you cannot expect that everybody will be the same as you. I respect your opinions/feelings/posts. I hope you all will do the same with me :icon_rolleyes:

It does seem like that, doesn't it? :icon_confused: Welcome to the club.

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Penny shot Leonard, in the head! And she shot Sheldon first. So she obviously prefers Sheldon because she gave him her attention initially and wants to get rid of Leonard because SHE SHOT HIM IN THE HEAD.

Gosh Leonard looked suprised and annoyed. I think its over for them. And where was Amy, huh?

Just sayin'

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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Dear POMITA, all this happened because when I watched this last episode I felt surprised that Howard&Bernadette started to talk again about having Children and look like they will have them soon. It is like they are preparing them& us for this!!!! I felt this very strong in my heart! And I didn´t like :(  Then I came here and I posted my feelings about this (as lot of people is doing everyday in this forum) Then I started to recieve stones on me. Is my opinion disturbing you all? I am not using the propper words for expressing myself? Can I only post my opinion if it match with "the general opinion"? ? If I post that I love Sheldon, or Jim is cute, etc then it is fine but if I post I don´t like something in the program then I am a bad person?

 

They do this all the time. Then they deny doing it. Don't let it bother you. Like the Borg, they suffer from groupthink.

 

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”

Eleanor Roosevelt

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i got given instructions, twice, repeated for clarity to dispose of myself. Lucky i was feeling well that day.

..or maybe not...

But then i think, let other hoist their own petards. Whats written gets read and others can assess the arguemnts on merit. Its not worth dying in ditch over anything here, literally or metaphorically.

But disagreement has to be accepted, just not jumped up and down on till it disappears. That is not a discussion or debate. Its slightly tyrannical otherwise. And diminishing.

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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I didn't even think about them not being able to get pregnant. That's a good option, even if they decide to explore it. I said that one of the things that irked me about the way the whole baby business was dealt in this episode was that it seemed like all of a sudden Bernadette went from being VERY unenthusiastic about children to considering it pretty enthusiastically. IMO, the whole push and pull between Howard and Bernadette regarding children is one potential plotline for their relationship that could be milked for several seasons, in order to give them something to work with as a couple, since they're pretty much settled in the status quo right now and there's not much to do with them. So to just sweep Bernadette's dislike of children under the carpet so easily would be a waste of a storyline. But I wouldn't be surprised if we don't hear anything about kids for another year now, knowing how the show has a tendency to ignore stuff for ages.

 

 

I don't know that it was that big a jump. They only really discussed children in one episode (5-12 The Shiny Trinket Maneuver)

And left the decision as undecided.

 

Bernadette: Look, it’s obvious having kids is really important to you, and I think I came up with a solution.

Howard: Really? That’s great. What?

Bernadette: Well, seeing as how I make way more money than you anyway, what if I work and you stay home with the kids?

Howard: Me?

Bernadette: Yeah. You know, you’ll watch Barney and pull Cheerios out of their noses and go on play dates, and I’ll work and have conversations with people my own age and enjoy my life.

Howard: Yeah.

Bernadette: Yay, so we’re good.

Howard: Yeah, we’re good.

 

So Bernie didn't say she didn't want to have kids, she just doesn't want to raise them. The big change is that she seems to be warming up to the idea of kids. Kind of like a 'You can get a dog, but I'm not walking it' statement

 

Season 5 episode 24 The Countdown Reflection

 

Cosmonaut: So, I tell my wife, get a dog, don’t get a dog, I’m not walking it, I’m not feeding it, I’m not picking up after it.

Mike: You know you’re going to wind up walking it.

Cosmonaut: I know.

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I didn't say it wasn't working. The show was still great. But I think they were running out of fresh material so they decided to boldly go where everyone has already been. Thanks for acknowledging that the relationship developments now outweigh the geek/science-focused stories. That's been my whole complaint about the show. And I know that's a minority opinion. :icon_neutral:

Nothing wrong with that. You can only write geek/nerd so long. If the characters don't evolve they just become sad and pathetic. It's one thing to be doing the geek/nerd arrested development thing as your major activity in your late 20's to early 30's, It's another to be pushing 40 and still be doing it as your raison d'être.

I think that's where Leonard was at the start of the series. He wanted to move on to the next level, where you could still enjoy the geek/nerd activities, but still have a life in the regular world and Penny was the catalyst for acting on that. By now the only two members of the group to still be stuck are  Raj (because he can't talk to women) and Sheldon (because he genuinely sees no need for change).

 

.

Edited by eirwinrommel

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