Episodes 6.23 The Love Spell Potential (May 9)

[koops]

Interesting.  I have never gotten the feeling that Amy was all talk except for maybe when she is with the girls.  In this episode she could not have been more clear that she wants more intimacy in their relationship.  She may be inexperienced but it is a problem she seems prepared to tackle.  I also do not think a shy girl practically begs her boyfriend to sleep in her bed, has no issue with the idea of being naked in front of him to be bathed, have her chest rubbed, or enjoys being spanked.

 

I think he was prodding her because she was highly upset and he was asking her to do something rather awkward.  I don't mean awkward from a sexual standpoint but awkward from a strange role playing standpoint.

 

Sorry, by "validated the idea" I meant speculation we had been having a while ago about what's going to happen when Sheldon starts making his moves. One of the ideas was that she might act pretty much like she did in the role play. 

 

I didn't mean she's shy as a person, she's anything but shy. But I think a lot of her boldness in the theoretical sexual arena might have had to do with the fact that she knew Sheldon wouldn't budge, so she had to take whatever she could get (mostly nothing). I agree part of her shyness probably had to do with the fact that it was a rather bizarre approach to intimacy that she probably didn't see coming, but it just goes to show that when things really get serious she might not be that bold anymore. She does want more intimacy, and she's not going to back away when the time comes, but that doesn't mean she'll be confident about it. I just think this scene just gave a hint that there will be none of those amusing jumping of bones scenarios when things get serious.

 

I think the writers used the bold version of Amy in the past because it was amusing, but it seems like when they want to get serious she is written very differently. The whole episode actually was set up around the idea that she doesn't like being touched by strangers, she's very sensitive about people meddling in her relationship and that, as much as she wants intimacy, she has zero actual experience and that it shows. It felt to me like they were resetting Amy to a less sexualized version. It doesn't look like the writers are going to play Shamy intimacy for laughs, so they are "toning her down" if you will. 

[phantagrae]

I agree koops.

 

It's one thing to talk boldly when you KNOW nothing's really going to happen.  She can fantasize about Sheldon all she wants, and she can imagine doing the things she's read about, but when it comes down to it, she's not experienced like Penny and Bernie.

And the other business, about letting Sheldon bathe her and all that, it's only half a step away from what she might encounter with a physician--pretty clinical from Sheldon's perspective.  When he was rubbing Vap-o-Rub on her chest, he wasn't actually copping a feel.  He was putting it on her sternum, and maybe he might have brushed along the tops of her breasts, but it's not as if he was there to feel her up.  And who knows what really happened in the bath.  Sheldon's approach was the same as what he might expect someone to do for him when he is sick (remember his discussion with Penny about spongebaths and enemas?)   He listed the things that he might ask Penny--or his mother--to do for him, the things one does for a sick person.

And I still maintain that she didn't drop her underwear when she showed him her bikini wax.  It's not as if she had a "brazilian" and even if she showed him her bikini area, I don't think she would have taken off her underwear or anything like that.  If she'd been wearing a bathing suit, he would have seen the same area.

 

It's easy to be bold when you know you're safe from actually having to do anything.  That's why it's easier to flirt with someone you're not really serious about.  If you're serious about liking someone, it's sometimes a little harder to be confident because the stakes are higher.

So, if she knows Sheldon is reluctant to get physical or intimate, she can talk about it all she wants and not have to worry about putting her money where her mouth is.  She can "warm her cockles" with the idea of what it will eventually be like, without having to deal with reality.

 

But when Sheldon initiated the role-playing, it wasn't just HER fantasy anymore, all alone in the privacy of her bedroom or whatever.  Suddenly she had to say what she wanted.  She was taken aback a bit by the boldness of him saying he removed her armor.  When he asked her what she did next, she took a big risk of rejection by saying she kisses him on the lips.  She's kissed him twice before--once when she was drunk and they decided to "reset" their relationship to some point presumably before the kiss, and once for the tiara, but in both of those incidents, though Sheldon didn't pull away, it wasn't as if he prolonged the kiss.  He accepted it and participated a little, but both kisses were barely more than a peck.

So, now she states it on purpose and not as an impulse and asks him what he does next.  He could have said that he pulls away or any other reaction, so she had reason to be nervous.  For all she wants, she knows that he hasn't ever expressed such desires to her.

 

So, yeah, she's never had to lay it down and ask him "what do you do?" before.  He's accepted her kisses (2) and her hugs (2) and her hand-holding at the movies (with some kind of regularity, apparently), though he has griped about even that minor physicality.

 

But now, all of a sudden he's pushing her to suggest physical acts that he can respond to, and I think he surprises her--in a good way--with his responses, which is what finally enboldens her to push him to roll again when it comes to what he's going to be erotically caressing.

 

I love that in his typical way, he kind of assumes that she understands what he's implying.  When he says that before he met her he'd never felt the desire to be intimate with anyone.  I think he was assuming that she would infer that he meant that now he does have that desire, or as he finally made clear, he hasn't ruled it out.

And again, I think that he meant that differently than she took it.  When she rolled her eyes and said, "Wow, talk dirty to me" you can see him kind of shake his head because he knew that she took it wrong.  For him to say that he hadn't ruled it out (the flip side of the coin of "It's a possibility"), means that he's considering it, which he never would have done before he met her.  That's the full implication of his first statement.  "Before I met you, I never felt the need to be intimate with anyone, but now that I know you, I'm considering it.  It's a possibilty which I have not ruled out."

So, even though it's still going to be an uphill journey for him (and for her), she can be assured that he isn't saying, "No, we will never have a physically intimate relationship."

 

And then his explanation that he considers their relationship very intimate is to me very meaningful, because it means that he has invited her into himself on many levels in a way that he has not done with anyone else.

I think that the minute he sat down on that bed he had decided that he wanted to stay in there and talk to her, and when she started to get up, he wasn't ready to end their conversation.  I think that his offer to act out the love spell was his way of saying, "Yes, I have these desires for you" on some level.  He had no hesitation in saying he would kiss her back, which is very different from his previous reactions to her kisses.  I wonder now, how he would react if she were to have some reason to kiss him, if he would prolong it, now that he has imagined it... Hmmm...

 

Anyway, I like that she was shy with him when it came to imagining the intimacy with him, out loud and in person.

[SD.]

the last part with Amy and sheldon in the room doing that thing

was kinda lame, especially when she was screaming at the end or something like that

 

i did find penny quite amusing in this episode

[Mars]

Oh, me. I'm so late to the party. I don't want to rehash what other people have said, so I'll just give an episode grade: A

Penny kind of brought it down from an A+ for me, but everyone else had their moments (Mayim & Simon knocked it out of the park, as usual. Special mention to Johnny). What a wonderful feel-good episode. I hope the finale delivers in the same way.

[vasu]

Sorry, by "validated the idea" I meant speculation we had been having a while ago about what's going to happen when Sheldon starts making his moves. One of the ideas was that she might act pretty much like she did in the role play. 

 

I didn't mean she's shy as a person, she's anything but shy. But I think a lot of her boldness in the theoretical sexual arena might have had to do with the fact that she knew Sheldon wouldn't budge, so she had to take whatever she could get (mostly nothing). I agree part of her shyness probably had to do with the fact that it was a rather bizarre approach to intimacy that she probably didn't see coming, but it just goes to show that when things really get serious she might not be that bold anymore. She does want more intimacy, and she's not going to back away when the time comes, but that doesn't mean she'll be confident about it. I just think this scene just gave a hint that there will be none of those amusing jumping of bones scenarios when things get serious.

 

I think the writers used the bold version of Amy in the past because it was amusing, but it seems like when they want to get serious she is written very differently. The whole episode actually was set up around the idea that she doesn't like being touched by strangers, she's very sensitive about people meddling in her relationship and that, as much as she wants intimacy, she has zero actual experience and that it shows. It felt to me like they were resetting Amy to a less sexualized version. It doesn't look like the writers are going to play Shamy intimacy for laughs, so they are "toning her down" if you will. 

 

I don't think her boldness in the sexual arena had anything do with the fact that she knew Sheldon would'nt budge....in fact I don't think she knew that Sheldon would not budge

(remember she was not at all surprised when sheldon accepted her hugs and asked her for more in kripke episode).....her actions were always because of her hope to get more intimate...... she always thought her actions would result in atleast something...other wise she would not have been disappointed afterwards....

 

and i got the same feeling in this episode scene as in the spanking episode..when she says "are you gonna spank me"..... more of a surprise than shyness...and more over after all the things we saw her do I don't think it would not feel plausible if she ran away when sheldon wants to be more intimate...(that line has been crossed and erased completely after the spanking episode)

 

The only occasion I can remember of seeing a shy Amy was in herb garden when Sheldon says that she is a vixen

 

As for her jumping Sheldon if and when he says he wants to have sex it seems entirely plausible from what we have got till now and I don't see anything wrong with it......

[wayelrob]

And we sink deeper and deeper into relationship comedy. I do miss the early days when this show was about hopeless nerds. Even D&D night wound up about relationships. I didn't hate this episode, but it gave me the feeling I was watching Friends Two.

[Nogravitasatall]

And we sink deeper and deeper into relationship comedy. I do miss the early days when this show was about hopeless nerds. Even D&D night wound up about relationships. I didn't hate this episode, but it gave me the feeling I was watching Friends Two.

Blame the free market?

[koops]

I think they're still pretty hopeless. A guy having to chase the girl he is dating through a back alley because she's trying to bail on him again and a couple having to resort to D&D to have sex because one of them has 30 different phobias is pretty "hopeless" to me, whatever that means. It's just a different kind of hopeless from when none of them could get a girl (or didn't care to).

[wayelrob]

Blame the free market?

I am sure that is exactly the issue. The show has never been more successful.

[tmp]

I think they're still pretty hopeless. A guy having to chase the girl he is dating through a back alley because she's trying to bail on him again and a couple having to resort to D&D to have sex because one of them has 30 different phobias is pretty "hopeless" to me, whatever that means. It's just a different kind of hopeless from when none of them could get a girl (or didn't care to).

 

I agree.  There's still tons of nerd stuff, but the guys are moving into a new stage of their lives.  At the beginning of the series, they were twenty-somethings (though I know some of the actors were in their 30s), but now they're older and starting to settle down.  I think it's cool that we are seeing how these nerds do romance.  A D&D triple date ending in D&D sex is a cute example, and undeniably nerdy.  I agree, it's still pretty hopeless, but the writers couldn't have them stay as hopeless as they were in s1 or it would get depressing.  The selective mutism is a prime example; it's a joke that is tired after 6 seasons and has started to make Raj seem too pitiful to be funny.  That's what happens when the writers don't let a character grow or change.  I'm sorry not everyone likes the direction of the show but IMO it's better that they take the risk of developing the characters rather than recycling the same stories and jokes for six years while the characters stay frozen in time.

[Kutra]

Actually, Penny helped their relationship move forward in a good way. Not sure how you missed the big picture here but because of her saying that their characters should do it in the game, Sheldon & Amy were finally able to have "the talk" AND they had some bonding time in the bedroom. Oh, bad Penny. LOL.

 

 

She never intended the relationship to go forward.The fact that it was the result was not the intention. She was only trying to create trouble by putting her waitress nose where it is not wanted.

[Chrismo]

She never intended the relationship to go forward.The fact that it was the result was not the intention. She was only trying to create trouble by putting her waitress nose where it is not wanted.

Do all waitresses have different types of noses?

[vasu]

So in this episode Sheldon says before meeting Amy he never wanted to be intimate with anyone in his life.....but now he wants to...

 

So because he never wanted to be intimate with anyone he always mocked people or looked down upon them as they were doing something wrong and waste of time by being intimate...

 

So after this I would like to see an episode where everyone (except Amy ) mock the hell out of Sheldon for now thinking to be intimate with someone.....and Sheldon finally giving in and apologizing to everyone and admitting he was wrong..... I believe this is only fair....... 

Edited May 16, 2013 by vasu

[Guest DroneInTheSun]

tbh I think his condescension towards amorous contacts is a bigger part of the problem than his germ phobia. He convinced himself he's better than that and he's so stubborn he's probably been lying to himself a lot about his own sexual desires (because yes, he does have desires, cf. "a cross we all must bear")

[phantagrae]

She never intended the relationship to go forward.The fact that it was the result was not the intention. She was only trying to create trouble by putting her waitress nose where it is not wanted.

 

Sorry, this is ridiculous.

[phantagrae]

So in this episode Sheldon says before meeting Amy he never wanted to be intimate with anyone in his life.....but now he wants to...

 

So because he never wanted to be intimate with anyone he always mocked people or looked down upon them as they were doing something wrong and waste of time by being intimate...

 

So after this I would like to see an episode where everyone (except Amy ) mock the hell out of Sheldon for now thinking to be intimate with someone.....and Sheldon finally giving in and apologizing to everyone and admitting he was wrong..... I believe this is only fair....... 

 

Sheldon apologize?  For what?  He will still look down on the others--he still has plenty of reasons for that.  He never apologized for finally asking Amy to be his girlfriend after insisting to Howard and Raj that he couldn't possibly be interested in whoever the dating site had picked for him.

Besides, this is a sitcom and each of the characters has certain personalities--even though Howard is now married, he still thinks about sex pretty much all the time.  Leonard may be more secure in his love life, but he's still nerdy and somewhat insecure in other areas. And so forth.

Sheldon will always be Sheldon and won't apologize for being himself.  I think that his friends know that this is all new for him, and that he's always been attached to his friends, no matter how much he mocks them.  They understand because they're his friends.

 

I don't think they're going to mock him--they've known about his attraction to Amy since the beginning of the 4th season.  I don't think they're going to tease him about his progress and he's certainly not going to apologize for his own personal growth.

[koops]

tbh I think his condescension towards amorous contacts is a bigger part of the problem than his germ phobia. He convinced himself he's better than that and he's so stubborn he's probably been lying to himself a lot about his own sexual desires (because yes, he does have desires, cf. "a cross we all must bear")

I think it's the other way around. I think his condescention towards other people's baser urges might be a defense mechanism to ignore all the issues he has that make intimacy difficult for him. If he can dismiss it as others being inferior he doesn't have to open the can of worms that are his issues.

He's finally starting to admit he has issues this season (playing hackeysack, physical contact like he said to Penny, the closure issue), where he wouldn't have before.

I also think he didnt really care about sex all that much, but his condescention, imo, was an avoidance mechanism.

[vasu]

Sheldon apologize?  For what?  He will still look down on the others--he still has plenty of reasons for that.  He never apologized for finally asking Amy to be his girlfriend after insisting to Howard and Raj that he couldn't possibly be interested in whoever the dating site had picked for him.

Besides, this is a sitcom and each of the characters has certain personalities--even though Howard is now married, he still thinks about sex pretty much all the time.  Leonard may be more secure in his love life, but he's still nerdy and somewhat insecure in other areas. And so forth.

Sheldon will always be Sheldon and won't apologize for being himself.  I think that his friends know that this is all new for him, and that he's always been attached to his friends, no matter how much he mocks them.  They understand because they're his friends.

 

I don't think they're going to mock him--they've known about his attraction to Amy since the beginning of the 4th season.  I don't think they're going to tease him about his progress and he's certainly not going to apologize for his own personal growth.

 

Oh  this is a sitcom right....I forgot...... thanks for the reminder 

 

Anyway one thing I like about BBT is that the writers of this show address certain dynamics within the show honestly... 

 

see The Hawking Excitation.....Sheldon has been insulting Howard because he does not have a phd for years.... instead of ignoring the bad effect that might have had on their relationship , the writers used it and created a story......years of insulting takes it toll no matter how silly or how innocent the source is.....for us it will be funny but for the character taking the insult it would not be....and this was honestly addressed in that episode.....

 

So I don't think my older post implied anything that BBT has never done before...

 

And Sheldon also has shown more growth after that ...so the writers might show him apologizing as a sign of growth ..who knows...

Edited May 16, 2013 by vasu

[Convict13]

I watched this again last night and it didn't grow on me anymore than my first impression of it, but I do have to say that Penny looked really nice in this episode, her hair was lovely and that top I want it.

[Lissie]

Lisse can you point out specific examples of Penny saying the same things? I hadn't noticed that, so I'm wondpering where it happened.

I don´t know if I will able to express myself in a correct way: I mean that sometimes the writers make Penny to say the same jokes about nerds. I don´t mean the EXACTLY same sentences, but very very similar sentences /jokes and with the same face expression. I know the idea is that Penny is the "non-nerd" and it is her paper to make jokes about nerd behaviours, but sometimes I feel the writers make it so easy (for them) that Penny looks like a repetition of image. This happen only in some episodes, not in all of them. In some other episodes Penny is more "deep character" (hope you understand me   but then, in some episodes, again she return to the "easy character" with the same those obvious jokes. Sorry I cannot say this in better words, if a could say this in Spanish will be so much easy to express myself!! sorry

[phantagrae]

Oh  this is a sitcom right....I forgot...... thanks for the reminder 

 

Anyway one thing I like about BBT is that the writers of this show address certain dynamics within the show honestly... 

 

see The Hawking Excitation.....Sheldon has been insulting Howard because he does not have a phd for years.... instead of ignoring the bad effect that might have had on their relationship , the writers used it and created a story......years of insulting takes it toll no matter how silly or how innocent the source is.....for us it will be funny but for the character taking the insult it would not be....and this was honestly addressed in that episode.....

 

So I don't think my older post implied anything that BBT has never done before...

 

And Sheldon also has shown more growth after that ...so the writers might show him apologizing as a sign of growth ..who knows...

 

Yes, they show how Howard resents the insults, but in the end, Sheldon's "compliment" is still condescending and not out of character.  He says that he never said that Howard isn't good at what he does, just that what he does isn't important.  But it's not as if Howard is broken-hearted over Sheldon's attitude and he doesn't get warm fuzzies over Sheldon's "compliment".  Everyone but Sheldon recognizes it for the backhanded compliment that it is, but Leonard tells Howard to accept it because it's the most he's going to get from Sheldon.

There wasn't any growth there.  Sheldon jumped through the hoops he had to jump through to get what he wanted.  He was still oblivious to the insult within the so-called compliment.

 

And in the ep where Sheldon accidentally cost Simon his security clearance, Sheldon attempted to apologize and finally offered Howard his beloved spot on the couch--only to take it back 90 seconds later.

 

Whenever Sheldon does manage to have some "growth" or take his comeuppance, it's not like it fundamentally changes his personality or his attitude.

I mentioned that the show is a sitcom because it's not often going to offer up a "very special episode" where something serious happens.  Even when something major happens--like when Sheldon bombed Kripke with "foamy vengeance" and accidentally hit the president of the university, there were no consequences.

 

The moments of truth that come now and then on the show are usually in other areas and are not going to be about someone saying to everyone, "I realize now what a terrible person I was before and from now on I'm going to be different!"  Certainly not Sheldon.

 

I think that most character growth happens one-on-one, like when Penny and Leonard have had their discussions about insecurity or committment, etc., or between Howard and Bernadette, and in this episode, between Sheldon and Amy alone.

And really, almost all of the growth we've seen in these characters happens in subtle increments and not with some "hit the audience over the head" kind of overt thing, like some kind of major declaration.  That's way too heavy-handed.

[phantagrae]

I don´t know if I will able to express myself in a correct way: I mean that sometimes the writers make Penny to say the same jokes about nerds. I don´t mean the EXACTLY same sentences, but very very similar sentences /jokes and with the same face expression. I know the idea is that Penny is the "non-nerd" and it is her paper to make jokes about nerd behaviours, but sometimes I feel the writers make it so easy (for them) that Penny looks like a repetition of image. This happen only in some episodes, not in all of them. In some other episodes Penny is more "deep character" (hope you understand me   but then, in some episodes, again she return to the "easy character" with the same those obvious jokes. Sorry I cannot say this in better words, if a could say this in Spanish will be so much easy to express myself!! sorry

 

But she's always going to be the one to look askance at the nerd behaviors.  That is essentially her role in the group dynamic because she's the one with the most objective or outsider perspective.  The other girls are also given moments where they roll their eyes or make remarks about the guys' nerd pursuits, but Penny is the one with the sharper tongue most times, so it's a little more natural for some of these comments to come from her.

And in this case, also, she's more of a party-girl than the other two, so she's going to feel the loss of their Vegas trip a little more than the others in some ways, especially when comparing it to a game of D&D.

[MJistheBOMB]

She never intended the relationship to go forward.The fact that it was the result was not the intention. She was only trying to create trouble by putting her waitress nose where it is not wanted.

Not even sure how to respond to that but I'll try: Um, no.

[Lissie]

But she's always going to be the one to look askance at the nerd behaviors.  That is essentially her role in the group dynamic because she's the one with the most objective or outsider perspective.  The other girls are also given moments where they roll their eyes or make remarks about the guys' nerd pursuits, but Penny is the one with the sharper tongue most times, so it's a little more natural for some of these comments to come from her.

And in this case, also, she's more of a party-girl than the other two, so she's going to feel the loss of their Vegas trip a little more than the others in some ways, especially when comparing it to a game of D&D.

Yeah, well, I have to say that nowadays Penny is better for me. I mean, the old/first seasons Penny was very silly IMO and once I said that if they change Kaley for another blonde young Hollywood actress we will notice very less the change but now I cannot say this anymore Penny changed and THIS is a change I like :D But well, sometimes I feel the "old Penny" returns for a while...

Some jokes I just listened to them in those old 80´s American films for teenagers: a school with a bounch of nerds and another bounch of "cool people"  Still I have nightmares because of them

Edited May 16, 2013 by Lissie

[vasu]

Yes, they show how Howard resents the insults, but in the end, Sheldon's "compliment" is still condescending and not out of character.  He says that he never said that Howard isn't good at what he does, just that what he does isn't important.  But it's not as if Howard is broken-hearted over Sheldon's attitude and he doesn't get warm fuzzies over Sheldon's "compliment".  Everyone but Sheldon recognizes it for the backhanded compliment that it is, but Leonard tells Howard to accept it because it's the most he's going to get from Sheldon.

There wasn't any growth there.  Sheldon jumped through the hoops he had to jump through to get what he wanted.  He was still oblivious to the insult within the so-called compliment.

 

And in the ep where Sheldon accidentally cost Simon his security clearance, Sheldon attempted to apologize and finally offered Howard his beloved spot on the couch--only to take it back 90 seconds later.

 

Whenever Sheldon does manage to have some "growth" or take his comeuppance, it's not like it fundamentally changes his personality or his attitude.

I mentioned that the show is a sitcom because it's not often going to offer up a "very special episode" where something serious happens.  Even when something major happens--like when Sheldon bombed Kripke with "foamy vengeance" and accidentally hit the president of the university, there were no consequences.

 

The moments of truth that come now and then on the show are usually in other areas and are not going to be about someone saying to everyone, "I realize now what a terrible person I was before and from now on I'm going to be different!"  Certainly not Sheldon.

 

I think that most character growth happens one-on-one, like when Penny and Leonard have had their discussions about insecurity or committment, etc., or between Howard and Bernadette, and in this episode, between Sheldon and Amy alone.

And really, almost all of the growth we've seen in these characters happens in subtle increments and not with some "hit the audience over the head" kind of overt thing, like some kind of major declaration.  That's way too heavy-handed.

 

I never said Hawking episode showed growth ... I was talking about Howard trying to take revenge or mocking him for all the insults over the years...

 

So same goes for the rest of the gang as now Sheldon is doing the exact thing which he resented others for doing so.....

 

And you keep saying he is Sheldon he won't do that ...he won't do this...

 

Can you see Sheldon of earlier seasons having a girlfriend with whom he wants to be physically intimate with.......(surely you would have said certainly not Sheldon if you were asked this question in earlier seasons )

was'nt one of his fundamental characteristic that he does not like to engage in physical activities...now everything changed as he is working on it because he wants to engage in physical activites.....

Edited May 16, 2013 by vasu