Episodes 6.23 The Love Spell Potential (May 9)

[koops]

I never said Hawking episode showed growth ... I was talking about Howard trying to take revenge or mocking him for all the insults over the years...

 

So same goes for the rest of the gang as now Sheldon is doing the exact thing which he resented others for doing so.....

 

And you keep saying he is Sheldon he won't do that ...he won't do this...

 

Can you see Sheldon of earlier seasons having a girlfriend with whom he wants to be physically intimate with.......(surely you would have said certainly not Sheldon if you were asked this question in earlier seasons )

was'nt one of his fundamental characteristic that he does not like to engage in physical activities...now everything changed as he is working on it because he wants to engage in physical activites.....

 

I think what Phanta is saying, and forgive me if I'm wrong, is that there isn't going to be one moment where suddenly Sheldon does a 180 and becomes apologetic about his arrogance. There might be more and more moments where he recognizes other people's value or achievements as opposed to the past (I think this season, when he appreciate Penny's help and acting, was one of those moments), but they are still going to be accompanied by moments of arrogance and dismissal (like in the sneak peek for the finale where he tells her "No wonder you didn't get the commercial"). Just like with sex: it was a gradual build up over 3 years to even get him to admit interest, and it's going to continue being a gradual build up. I think that's what Phanta meant by "Certainly not Sheldon". He doesn't change suddenly from one moment to the next.

Edited May 16, 2013 by koops

[vasu]

I think what Phanta is saying, and forgive me if I'm wrong, is that there isn't going to be one moment where suddenly Sheldon does a 180 and becomes apologetic about his arrogance. There might be more and more moments where he recognizes other people's value or achievements as opposed to the past (I think this season, when he appreciate Penny's help and acting, was one of those moments), but they are still going to be accompanied by moments of arrogance and dismissal (like in the sneak peek for the finale where he tells her "No wonder you didn't get the commercial"). Just like with sex: it was a gradual build up over 3 years to even get him to admit interest, and it's going to continue being a gradual build up. I think that's what Phanta meant by "Certainly not Sheldon". He doesn't change suddenly from one moment to the next.

 

Why Sheldon saying sorry is Sheldon doing 180....... did he not say sorry to Amy in holiday-lab episode after full pressure from Amy

 

So probably after an episode where the others let him know what he did he might say sorry again... as simple as that...... and later he can have his oblivious arrogant moments again....one sorry does not dimish it...

Edited May 16, 2013 by vasu

[phantagrae]

I never said Hawking episode showed growth ... I was talking about Howard trying to take revenge or mocking him for all the insults over the years...

 

So same goes for the rest of the gang as now Sheldon is doing the exact thing which he resented others for doing so.....

 

And you keep saying he is Sheldon he won't do that ...he won't do this...

 

Can you see Sheldon of earlier seasons having a girlfriend with whom he wants to be physically intimate with.......(surely you would have said certainly not Sheldon if you were asked this question in earlier seasons )

was'nt one of his fundamental characteristic that he does not like to engage in physical activities...now everything changed as he is working on it because he wants to engage in physical activites.....

 

Yes, Howard was trying to take revenge, yes, the insults pile up, but it doesn't change the way the show is written or how they have Sheldon respond.  Or even how Howard relates to him.  Whatever they've been through together, Howard and Sheldon are always going to relate to each other in an antagonistic way.

It's not that Sheldon can't grow--he very obviously is growing, especially in terms of having a girlfriend.

 

But what you're looking for is some kind of declaration in regard to his personal growth.  That isn't his style and not the way the writers write him.

I actually wouldn't have said that he'd never have a girlfriend, but I knew that if he did it wouldn't be the way the other guys have girlfriends.

 

But whatever the situation, there is a certain way the show is written and a certain way that the characters grow.

You said something similar about Amy in The Isolation Permutation, that she should have somehow apologized to Penny and Bernie for being so overbearing about the bridesmaid stuff, etc.

 

I feel like you want some kind of "the moral to this story is..." kind of moment and that's just not the style of American sitcom writing.

 

Years ago we used to have these "After School Special" programs where young school-age kids would find themselves in some kind of dilemma involving their friends and someone would learn a great life lesson about truth or loyalty or love or whatever.

 

But a show like Big Bang isn't about such things.

 

As much as the characters grow and change, they really stay the same in many fundamental ways.  As much as Sheldon loves Amy, he's always going to have that sharp edge to him that is often tone-deaf about people's emotions.  As much as he loves Leonard, he's always going to be overbearing and demanding.

 

All the characters have their fundamental core personalities that are not going to change that much, no matter how they grow in certain ways, because it is from these cores that their group dynamic arises and from which a lot of the comedy is drawn.

[phantagrae]

Why Sheldon saying sorry is Sheldon doing 180....... did he not say sorry to Amy in holiday-lab episode after full pressure from Amy

 

So probably after an episode where the others let him know what he did he might say sorry again... as simple as that...... and later he can have his oblivious arrogant moments again....one sorry does not dimish it...

 

When Amy apologized to Amy in the Vacation episode it was like pulling teeth.  He tried in every way to try to weasle out of a true apology.  The only reason he finally did truly apologize was because she demanded it and because he wanted to be able to continue to spend time with her.

He didn't go there to apologize because he felt some great moral epiphany.  His initial comment about wanting to come back, when he first knocked on her door, was apologetic in tone, but as she pointed out, he wasn't really apologizing because his pride wouldn't allow him to do it.  Even his "that's YOUR opinion" comment was a way of trying to not apologize and still have her let him return.

 

And I think it's very important that this was a one-on-one situation and with Amy.  VERY different from the gang trying to pressure an apology out of him.

 

First of all, I don't think his friends would bother to point out anything about his dismissal of their desire for sex/physical intimacy.  I think that the mild fun they were having in the D&D game is about as far as they would go--and they quickly realized that they shouldn't have done it as Penny said they all felt bad about it.

I think they understand that for Sheldon and Amy it's a much bigger deal that it has ever been for any of them, and I think that Leonard and Penny especially understand it after their discussion with him in the Cooper/Kripke episode.  While they may tease them about it, they're probably not going to be expecting or even needing him to apologize for finally hitting puberty.

 

I think that the guys might eventually say something to him in the privacy of a trip to the comic book store, along the lines of, "Come on, admit it, you're interested in having sex with Amy" or something like that, but I don't think they care about any kind of apology.

 

And secondly, the least likely way to get Sheldon to apologize for something is to try to embarass him into it.

 

I think the only people who have gotten him to really apologize are Amy and his mother.  Most of the time he gets away with the kind of back-handed non-apology he tried to use on Amy.

[vasu]

Yes, Howard was trying to take revenge, yes, the insults pile up, but it doesn't change the way the show is written or how they have Sheldon respond.  Or even how Howard relates to him.  Whatever they've been through together, Howard and Sheldon are always going to relate to each other in an antagonistic way.

It's not that Sheldon can't grow--he very obviously is growing, especially in terms of having a girlfriend.

 

But what you're looking for is some kind of declaration in regard to his personal growth.  That isn't his style and not the way the writers write him.

I actually wouldn't have said that he'd never have a girlfriend, but I knew that if he did it wouldn't be the way the other guys have girlfriends.

Of course now that he has girlfriend you will say that..... not that there is anything wrong with it ......

 

But whatever the situation, there is a certain way the show is written and a certain way that the characters grow.

You said something similar about Amy in The Isolation Permutation, that she should have somehow apologized to Penny and Bernie for being so overbearing about the bridesmaid stuff, etc.

 

I feel like you want some kind of "the moral to this story is..." kind of moment and that's just not the style of American sitcom writing.

 

Years ago we used to have these "After School Special" programs where young school-age kids would find themselves in some kind of dilemma involving their friends and someone would learn a great life lesson about truth or loyalty or love or whatever.

 

But a show like Big Bang isn't about such things.

 

As much as the characters grow and change, they really stay the same in many fundamental ways.  As much as Sheldon loves Amy, he's always going to have that sharp edge to him that is often tone-deaf about people's emotions.  As much as he loves Leonard, he's always going to be overbearing and demanding.

 

All the characters have their fundamental core personalities that are not going to change that much, no matter how they grow in certain ways, because it is from these cores that their group dynamic arises and from which a lot of the comedy is drawn.

And who are you ....some American sitcom writing expert....

I never said anything here about morals here....i was just telling it would make sense it they had an episode like that..

And as a lot of posters have been posting here...( i am talking about the show in general in the earlier seasons most of the comedy was drawn from guys being nerdy , guys doing nerdy things and some from romantic aspects..... now most of the comedy is drawn from relationship aspects....

one episode of Sheldon giving a simple sorry does not change anything..

[vasu]

When Amy apologized to Amy in the Vacation episode it was like pulling teeth.  He tried in every way to try to weasle out of a true apology.  The only reason he finally did truly apologize was because she demanded it and because he wanted to be able to continue to spend time with her.

He didn't go there to apologize because he felt some great moral epiphany.  His initial comment about wanting to come back, when he first knocked on her door, was apologetic in tone, but as she pointed out, he wasn't really apologizing because his pride wouldn't allow him to do it.  Even his "that's YOUR opinion" comment was a way of trying to not apologize and still have her let him return.

 

And I think it's very important that this was a one-on-one situation and with Amy.  VERY different from the gang trying to pressure an apology out of him.

 

First of all, I don't think his friends would bother to point out anything about his dismissal of their desire for sex/physical intimacy.  I think that the mild fun they were having in the D&D game is about as far as they would go--and they quickly realized that they shouldn't have done it as Penny said they all felt bad about it.

I think they understand that for Sheldon and Amy it's a much bigger deal that it has ever been for any of them, and I think that Leonard and Penny especially understand it after their discussion with him in the Cooper/Kripke episode.  While they may tease them about it, they're probably not going to be expecting or even needing him to apologize for finally hitting puberty.

 

I think that the guys might eventually say something to him in the privacy of a trip to the comic book store, along the lines of, "Come on, admit it, you're interested in having sex with Amy" or something like that, but I don't think they care about any kind of apology.

 

And secondly, the least likely way to get Sheldon to apologize for something is to try to embarass him into it.

 

dI think the only people who have gotten him to really apologize are Amy and his mother.  Most of the time he gets away with the kind of back-handed non-apology he tried to use on Amy.

If you see my first post you quoted .... I said Sheldon FINALLY gives in....

what I meant was after the guys continue to mock him ( with him being all uncomfortable about it-- funny scenario) and he would not have any other ways win the argument and finally gives in and says sorry stop now I understand why you liked to be intimate ...it is really cool .... as simple as that

Edited May 16, 2013 by vasu

[Pemberley]

So excited to be here among people who love this show as much as I do! I loved this episode! So much Shamy goodness!

[phantagrae]

Of course now that he has girlfriend you will say that..... not that there is anything wrong with it ......

 

And who are you ....some American sitcom writing expert....

I never said anything here about morals here....i was just telling it would make sense it they had an episode like that..

And as a lot of posters have been posting here...( i am talking about the show in general in the earlier seasons most of the comedy was drawn from guys being nerdy , guys doing nerdy things and some from romantic aspects..... now most of the comedy is drawn from relationship aspects....

one episode of Sheldon giving a simple sorry does not change anything..

 

I'm not a sitcom writing expert, but an American who has spent most of my 50+ years watching and innately understanding American sitcoms.

 

What you see as making sense seems to be a desire for some kind of epiphany on Sheldon's part.  There seems to be something in you that demands some kind of moral payback or answer.

What I'm saying is that that kind of moment is not about that.  Why does Sheldon need to apologize for his past insults about the guys' desire for sex/physical intimacy?  What would be the point (or the comedy) in that ?

 

I don't think it matters, in regard to whether or not Sheldon needs to apologize for anything, from what aspect the comedy is drawn.  He never apologized for his arrogance regarding the science/geeky stuff, why should he apologize for his arrogance regarding romance?

I'm sure he thinks that his approach to romance and even initmacy is somehow superior to the others.

[Tensor]

Lisse. You cleared it up for me. Thanks for the explanation, I did understand. I will say Phanta pretty much nailed what would have been my reply.

[vasu]

I'm not a sitcom writing expert, but an American who has spent most of my 50+ years watching and innately understanding American sitcoms.

 

What you see as making sense seems to be a desire for some kind of epiphany on Sheldon's part.  There seems to be something in you that demands some kind of moral payback or answer.

What I'm saying is that that kind of moment is not about that.  Why does Sheldon need to apologize for his past insults about the guys' desire for sex/physical intimacy?  What would be the point (or the comedy) in that ?

 

I don't think it matters, in regard to whether or not Sheldon needs to apologize for anything, from what aspect the comedy is drawn.  He never apologized for his arrogance regarding the science/geeky stuff, why should he apologize for his arrogance regarding romance?

I'm sure he thinks that his approach to romance and even initmacy is somehow superior to the others.

You don't understand do you .... even after 50 years....

In hawking episode , the entire comedy was drawn from Howard making Sheldon doing things for him ( same scenario - guys mocking him - comedy) and him trying to argue but not finding any valid arguments.....and finally sheldon giving( this might be shown as funny or as growth )

And if I remember correctly Sheldon apologizes to Leonard and Penny in the spock doll episode because he recognized what he did was wrong( and it was done in a very funny way)

And comedy can be drawn from many things...

Edited May 16, 2013 by vasu

[koops]

To be honest, while Sheldon doesn't *need* to apologize (but maybe apologizing isn't quite the right word in this context, it's more about admitting he was wrong), there's nothing to say they won't write a scenario like that at some point though. There is comedy in Sheldon trying to weasel his way out of admitting that he actually enjoys sex to his friends. Just as there is comedy in Sheldon suddenly thinking he's some kind of Casanova who is superior to others even in that realm. Or something in between. I don't think either scenario is far fetched. 

[phantagrae]

You don't understand do you .... even after 50 years....

In hawking episode , the entire comedy was drawn from Howard making Sheldon doing things for him ( same scenario - guys mocking him - comedy) and him trying to argue but not finding any valid arguments.....and finally sheldon giving( this might be shown as funny or as growth )

And if I remember correctly Sheldon apologizes to Leonard and Penny in the spock doll episode because he recognized what he did was wrong( and it was done in a very funny way)

And comedy can be drawn from many things...

 

Sheldon didn't really apologize in ep with Tiny Spock.  He lied and lied and lied (though he kept admitting his lies) until Penny finally asked him to tell the truth.  So he did, and then seemed to apologize, but, of course, that was a lie as well.

 

While, as koops said, there is comedy in seeing him trying to weasel out of admitting something he has repeatedly denied, it's not the same thing as an apology for past insults.

 

I think that's the difference.  That the guys may squeeze him into a corner--kind of the way Howard did by demanding a compliment as the final task for Sheldon to complete, but again, he didn't apologize for past insults or slights and he didn't even give Howard a real compliment.  So he said he was good at something that didn't matter.  Is that a compliment?  No, but it was funny to see that Sheldon can manage to be insulting even as he thinks he's being complimentary.

And completely unapologetic about it.

[ajond]

Hey vasu,

 

Give it up, Phanta has you well covered.

[Nogravitasatall]

Do all waitresses have different types of noses?

I know of at least one astronomer who did, Tycho Brahe. So there is a science history connection for you. Dont think he ever waitressed though.

[Pemberley]

I love weasel Sheldon almost as much as I love jealous Sheldon. My favorite Sheldon, of course, is arrogantly superior Sheldon who is then shot down for being wrong. Ha ha ha.

[wayelrob]

She never intended the relationship to go forward.The fact that it was the result was not the intention. She was only trying to create trouble by putting her waitress nose where it is not wanted.

I'm not even sure what this means. You do know that Penny is a fictional character and this particular show, has a history of writing in things just for comedy, with no consideration for it's being in character. Trying to describe intent is pointless. They had Penny do what she did because they thought it would result in good comedy.

[rachelshamyfan]

Was happy to see the full episode in the UK last night for the 1st time

IF anybody is interested

Viewer ratings were good as well beating c4 and c5 and the multi channels at the same time with figures of 1.31 million followed by an extra 425k on the plus channel

[wannamaker]

Why are the writers trying so hard to push Amy and Sheldon toward sex? Their relationship is barely a relationship. They haven't kissed since last season, and the cute things they used to do for each other were far more entertaining and funny.

[rachelshamyfan]

Why are the writers trying so hard to push Amy and Sheldon toward sex? Their relationship is barely a relationship. They haven't kissed since last season, and the cute things they used to do for each other were far more entertaining and funny.

progress perhaps! The shamy have a very interesting relationship and they may take time but coitus is not gonna happen straight away anyway and going by Amys nervousness during the d&d scene she's just as not ready for it as Sheldon is

[wannamaker]

Rachel... In this episode only the bedroom is the winner!  It was really a touching scene (a promise of erotic caresses ...coming from  Sheldon? Well I never )

Edited July 7, 2013 by wannamaker

[rachelshamyfan]

Oh it was very erotic but you could see Amy was a little nervous during it and I think she knows now that Sheldon is thinking about more intimate stuff going on

Edited July 7, 2013 by rachelshamyfan

[wannamaker]

Yeah her hand playing around her mouth...she could not believe something new was happening...

[rachelshamyfan]

Yeah, I think she will be content to wait till Sheldon is ready

[viddy9]

By contrast to the previous two episodes, this one was wholly disappointing. There was nothing remotely funny about it, the storyline was fairly unoriginal, as were the jokes. For example, the 'no one has ever played D&D with girls' "joke" was yet another of the numerous lines which make fun of nerd culture rather than celebrate it, and it's becoming increasingly tedious. It's as if the show laughs at nerds rather than supports them, at times. It seems to be all the writers can come up with in certain episodes, at the moment.

 

As for the ending, I was pleased with Sheldon's non-responsiveness to Amy until he said 'I won't rule it out'. It's a step in the wrong direction. I was hoping for a break-up after which they'd become friends again like in Season 4, but, as predicted, no.

 

The high point of the episode was Simon Helberg's Al Pacino impression, which was exquisite. The fact that he took over as Dungeon Master was especially symbolic, and emblematic of Season 5 & Season 6. What I mean by that is that the character of Howard has been carrying the comedic parts of the show for a long time now, having taken over from Leonard, in the same way he took the Dungeon Master role from Leonard. Sheldon, too, has lost his uniqueness in most episodes of the show - where's the Sheldon who never laughed but for those golden moments with the great laugh? Now he's laughing at every single thing, no matter how funny.

 

If anyone reads this and thinks 'what a moaner', keep in mind that I have praised a significant number of the Season 6 episodes.

[viddy9]

So in this episode Sheldon says before meeting Amy he never wanted to be intimate with anyone in his life.....but now he wants to...

 

So because he never wanted to be intimate with anyone he always mocked people or looked down upon them as they were doing something wrong and waste of time by being intimate...

 

So after this I would like to see an episode where everyone (except Amy ) mock the hell out of Sheldon for now thinking to be intimate with someone.....and Sheldon finally giving in and apologizing to everyone and admitting he was wrong..... I believe this is only fair....... 

 

I hope for the same, except I hope that Sheldon doesn't give in, says that he was originally right in his usual haughty manner, and he and Amy go back to being friends.

 

What audacious dreams I have!