Episodes 6.24 The Bon Voyage Reaction (May 16)

[tmp]

Shipping preferences aside, I honestly don't think there would be any partner swapping among the already stablished group.

 

I think if they were going to break up one of the couples and pair one of the members with someone else, temporarily or permanently, they would create a new character for that. To mix the current members of the group would damage the group dynamics, the weird experiment they did with Raj and Penny failed miserably and enraged a lot of people, I don't think they want to mess with all that again.

 

 

What do you mean with there's not honesty between Amy and Sheldon? One of the foundations of their dynamic is precisely the brutal (almost rude) honesty between them.

How do you categorize the totally sincere talk they just had in the Love Spell episode? They told to each other their mutual expectations and needs and what each is capable of give to the other at this moment. You may like or not their relationship or scenes, but you can't tell there wasn't honesty in that moment.

 

I think you are unfairly judging them based only in what happened in sixth season (specially during the second half), and they are much more than that. I don't enterily like the way they handled it, but they presumably make Sheldon act colder towards her and kept Amy accumulating pressure for the sake of reaching the breaking point we had in 6x23.

 

I think (and hope) this season's push-resist interaction ended up for good there (or, at least, will be seriously toned down). It's the logical thing to do. Amy can calm down after knowing by his own words that a physical relationship between them is in the realm of possibility, and Sheldon can't feign innocence to Amy's insinuations anymore, not after having their first sexual experience (doesn't matter if there was no touching, to describe intimate situations and actions to your partner in a "I'm doing this to you" fashion is VERY sexual in my books), and it was conscious, consensual and voluntary, unlike with the spanking scene, there's no place for that kind of controversy here.

 

And I think we have evidence that when the writers decide to make an important advance, they usually stick to it. They didn't made Howard declare he wanted to settle down with Bernardette just to have him chasing a different girl next episode, they didn't clear things up between Leonard and Penny in the Valentine's episode just to have him proposing again a couple eps later.

 

I think (and again, I hope) Shamy will have a quite different dynamic in season 7, I don't neccesarily mean an increasingly sexual one, but one happier and smoother, less confrontational.

 

I like you. 

[Oldnavy]

Oh, it would be hilarious. Sheldon is all about schedules and organization. Kids destroy schedules and force parents out of their organization.

I agree that would be hilarious.  I don't know if they will do it but can you imagine this, three toddlers.  L/P have twins a boy and a girl and H/B have a son, sitting in Sheldon's spot, playing with his action figures, getting into his comics and playing with his model trains.

[Tensor]

And I think we have evidence that when the writers decide to make an important advance, they usually stick to it. They didn't made Howard declare he wanted to settle down with Bernardette just to have him chasing a different girl next episode, they didn't clear things up between Leonard and Penny in the Valentine's episode just to have him proposing again a couple eps later.

 

I think (and again, I hope) Shamy will have a quite different dynamic in season 7, I don't neccesarily mean an increasingly sexual one, but one happier and smoother, less confrontational.

I still think season 7 will be good for Shamy. They fixed Howard and Bernadette in season five, the fixed Leonard and Penny in season six, and I think they will fix the Sheldon and Amy in season seven. This also gives Raj the chance to meet someone in season seven and then they can fix Raj and whoever in season 8. Of course I could be way off, but I like the progression.

[mjc45]

great way to end the season

 

raj mutism is gone, is it only around

the 3 he knows (penny, amy, bernie),

what the other he could meet?

 

leonard going away could be part of

the tenure position. he would be helping

hawking, has to give he the edge.

 

L/P in the car was sweet when he gave her

the locket, would like to see him put it on her

with the ILU  .

[rachelshamyfan]

That's not the final rachy. The Live + 7 are delayed by two weeks. That was for "The Proton Resurgence", the episode with Bob Newhart. See the thread Big Bang Hits all time high ratings.

oh I obviously read the news item wrong!

[vasu]

In the episode with Leonard/Amy and trains, I think it was pretty clear that Sheldon was unconsciously diverting himself from his subliminal jealousy by fixating (even more than usual) on one of his childish hobbies. This was evidenced by his 'she's not for you' lash-out at Leonard at the end. He did it at the slightest imaginary provocation, so obviously it didn't come out of the blue, those misgivings had been there in his mind all along. We got further evidence of this behavior in Flaming Spittoon, where he started obsessing on the card game and dressing up as a cowboy to distract himself from his jealousy about Amy going out with Stuart (again, this became clear later in the episode). 

 

On the other hand, in this episode (re Sheldon distracting himself from his insecurity about Leonard's going away) we got no such evidence directly in canon. So it's just conjecture based on an earlier observed personality trait. I agree that it may not be the same in this case.

You are funny....

[eirwinrommel]

I still think season 7 will be good for Shamy. They fixed Howard and Bernadette in season five, the fixed Leonard and Penny in season six, and I think they will fix the Sheldon

Now there's an idea have someone 'fix' Sheldon. It might calm him down a bit.

[Lissie]

Reading your posts guys about your ideas with the next season and future end of the show with babies, "fixes", etc make me feel TBBT as a romantic Latin American NOVELA. Well, I suppose the program became this a long time ago: a more than 7 years old long novela... Novelas finish very fast after "fixing" everybody and showing the babies...This put me sad But well, as some said in the past: TBBT will not be older than 10 seasons so, by math, it is happening....I only ask myself if they can fill 3 more years fixing Sheldon and putting babies in the show... How much they can elongate all this?

But ok., I know, I am doing repetitions with my opinion

[tmp]

I still think season 7 will be good for Shamy. They fixed Howard and Bernadette in season five, the fixed Leonard and Penny in season six, and I think they will fix the Sheldon and Amy in season seven. This also gives Raj the chance to meet someone in season seven and then they can fix Raj and whoever in season 8. Of course I could be way off, but I like the progression.

 

I'm not sure I think they need to be fixed exactly.  It's just an incredibly slow-moving relationship while Sheldon slowly makes progress with his touch aversion.

[SRAM]

Now there's an idea have someone 'fix' Sheldon. It might calm him down a bit.

Unfortunately you can't fix Sheldon. Once his scientific failures are known and he gets dumped from Cal Tech, selling sperm might be his only source of income (see original pilot).

[phantagrae]

Reading your posts guys about your ideas with the next season and future end of the show with babies, "fixes", etc make me feel TBBT as a romantic Latin American NOVELA. Well, I suppose the program became this a long time ago: a more than 7 years old long novela... Novelas finish very fast after "fixing" everybody and showing the babies...This put me sad But well, as some said in the past: TBBT will not be older than 10 seasons so, by math, it is happening....I only ask myself if they can fill 3 more years fixing Sheldon and putting babies in the show... How much they can elongate all this?

But ok., I know, I am doing repetitions with my opinion

 

I don't think you have to worry about babies showing up on TBBT.

[phantagrae]

Unfortunately you can't fix Sheldon. Once his scientific failures are known and he gets dumped from Cal Tech, selling sperm might be his only source of income (see original pilot).

 

I don't know why people seem to think he's a failure as a physicist.  As a theoretical physicist, it's very hard to say whether or not he's a failure.  While his theories may not have been proven so far, that doesn't mean that he isn't coming up with things that will eventually be proven, when practical science catches up with theoretical science.

 

They've mentioned him authoring various papers, etc., and being the lead, or one of the leading, physicists at Cal Tech.  I don't think that TPTB intend to ever show him to be a failure.

Even the Cooper/Kripke Inversion wasn't intended, IMO, to show that Sheldon was suddenly less intelligent than Kripke.

 

Leonard's point of view is often used as the "truth-teller" on the show, especially when it comes to Sheldon and his excesses and Leonard points out to SHeldon, who is, of course, overreacting to one aspect of his work, that Kripke is not smarter than Sheldon, but that Sheldon simply got "stuck on a wrong path".  And really only in this one area for this particular grant proposal, not in all of his work.

 

I don't think that Kripke considered himself to all of a sudden be smarter than Sheldon, either.  He said that Sheldon had some good points but that he just needed to buckle down and attributed it to Sheldon being distracted by his girlfriend.

So maybe Sheldon hadn't progressed in the way he thought he should have in this particular case, but that doesn't mean that he suddenly lost 50 IQ points or that Kripke gained that many, or that Sheldon doesn't know what he's doing as a physicist.  If he really were a failure, I think it would have come to light long before now.

[Tensor]

Hey, guys I didn't say fix Sheldon, I said fix Sheldon and Amy. There are issues between them, that have to be straightened out before they move on, just as there were issues between the other couples that had to fixed before they could move on.

At the end of season four, Howard and Bernadette got engaged. But, most of the work correcting the issues between them (kids, making decisions together, trust, etc) happened in season five. In season six, they basically finished the issues(major ones, there's always some minor issues between couples).

In the second half of season five, they started Leonard and Penny on their path together. Season six was mostly correcting issues between them, along with straightening out some of their own issues( mostly Penny, but Leonard had to work through some also.). I fully expect them to finish that in season seven.

While S/A move slower, and have been together longer, there were some major moves, for them, in the second half of season six. The next season fits with the progression of the other couples. They don't have get a proposal, nor do the have to have sex, but they do have some things to work on (in a nice counterpoint to L/P, Sheldon's got a bit more to work on, although Amy has issues also). The work would continue into season eight.

Raj can then find someone in season seven, and work on his and his girlfriend issues moves into season eight. It fits with the arcs of the other couples and gives a couple the spotlight for a season.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Tensor

[Tensor]

I don't know why people seem to think he's a failure as a physicist.  many, or that Sheldon doesn't know what he's doing as a physicist.

Snip...

  If he really were a failure, I think it would have come to light long before now.

Interesting. I made pretty much the same points in the " Leonard and Penny thread. The main problem with Sheldon's work is so esoteric, it's tough to get across within the limitations of the small screen.

[Lissie]

Hey, guys I didn't say fix Sheldon, I said fix Sheldon and Amy. There are issues between them, that have to be straightened out before they move on, just as there were issues between the other couples that had to fixed before they could move on.

At the end of season four, Howard and Bernadette got engaged. But, most of the work correcting the issues between them (kids, making decisions together, trust, etc) happened in season five. In season six, they basically finished the issues(major ones, there's always some minor issues between couples).

In the second half of season five, they started Leonard and Penny on their path together. Season six was mostly correcting issues between them, along with straightening out some of their own issues( mostly Penny, but Leonard had to work through some also.). I fully expect them to finish that in season seven.

While S/A move slower, and have been together longer, there were some major moves, for them, in the second half of season six. The next season fits with the progression of the other couples. They don't have get a proposal, nor do the have to have sex, but they do have some things to work on (in a nice counterpoint to L/P, Sheldon's got a bit more to work on, although Amy has issues also). The work would continue into season eight.

Raj can then find someone in season seven, and work on his and his girlfriend issues moves into season eight. It fits with the arcs of the other couples and gives a couple the spotlight for a season.

Yes, probably will be like this. Maybe this is something the writer just planned, and maybe talked to the actors..

[eirwinrommel]

Unfortunately you can't fix Sheldon. Once his scientific failures are known and he gets dumped from Cal Tech, selling sperm might be his only source of income (see original pilot).

Do we really want to take the chance of more of them?

[SRAM]

Do we really want to take the chance of more of them?

Oh my God! You're right. I never thought of that.

[hamerman55]

Interesting. I made pretty much the same points in the " Leonard and Penny thread. The main problem with Sheldon's work is so esoteric, it's tough to get across within the limitations of the small screen.

I don't think that Sheldon is a failure, but he has issues that impede his career. I mentioned a few of them in an earlier post. (It is funny that in the episode where Stewart takes out Amy, Sheldon claims that Leonard is washed up as a physicist and should turn to teaching history). Success could be signaled by a celebration of the publication of another paper in a major journal (but of course he doesn't need validation of inferior minds). It has been pointed out by both Stephen Hawking and Barry Kwipke that Sheldon has brilliant ideas, but the evidence in these two instances is that he sloppy, or insufficiently developed. His work apparently can be experimentally tested, as he was funded to do so in the Arctic expedition and in the collaborative work with Leonard.

 

What really bugs me about him is that he is so arrogant about being far above everyone else in intelligence, yet the evidence is that he cannot deliver. He may be as intelligent as he believes, but his condescension and contempt for everyone else negates it. It reminds me of the legends of New York street basketball. There are all these guys that are supposed to be the finest basketball players ever, but they never got beyond the asphalt courts due to personal issues (see http://www.hoopsusa.com/frm_story.cfm?a=407). Sheldon's personal issues will condemn him to scientific footnotes if he keeps screwing up his math and driving away experimental physicists from considering his work.

 

I'm also personally annoyed with the whole deal with mathematicians and theoretical scientists condescending to experimental scientists. It is a load of crap. Most theoreticians and mathematicians are disasters in the lab, so they should be more considerate of people who can validate their musings. Even worse, the curriculum for math is basically the same as a humanities major, as it includes no laboratory science. I've observed that the biggest problem with math education in America is that math majors teach it. Their approach is all about proofs, and little practical application. Theoretical scientists that develop theories that can't be tested are useless, since theories that can't be tested tell us nothing about the universe. 

 

On a different note, Sheldon made it clear that he is not touch phobic, but germophobic in the episode where Leonard has sex with the wealthy donor. He doesn't like holding Amy's hand because he doesn't enjoy the sensation. After the episode where he took care of Amy, he's decided that he is OK with touching Amy, at least in a clinical situation. Shoot, he had her lie across his lab and spanked her. So touching isn't an issue. I suspect he is terrified of the sensations and emotional exposure that would result from a more intimate relationship with Amy. I believe that, in contrast to his surface persona, Sheldon is very insecure. He acts so sure of himself, but I suspect it is an act, and he is afraid that he will be found out if he displays any weakness. 

 

I'm not really sure where I'd like them to take Sheldon. One of the anchors of the show is Sheldon's unflappable certainty, but progress for Sheldon may require breaking that certainty. When pushed to the limit, Sheldon shows what is truly important to him, and currently his friendship with Leonard, his relationship with Amy, and his other friends. To me, it is what makes him ultimately a sympathetic character, as he really does care for the people in his life. I just hope that he starts listening to them, since it would benefit him greatly without having to break him of his certainty in a traumatic way.

[sarah7]

I like you. 

 

  Aw, thanks tmp.

 

 

On the topic of fixing Shamy/Sheldon, well, Tensor, I hope you are right and, while I agree with tmp, that Shamy doesn't need too much of a "fix" (IMO, they are essentially well, but, as any couple, they have issues to work on), my wishes for next season is to see them enjoying themselves again, as they used to behave with each other before entering this tense phase.

 

And regarding Sheldon, I heartfully agree that he must remain himself, we don't want him to become "normal" (of course not!)  but I also think they need to do something with the character.

I mean, I know he is selfish and egocentric, however, I'm afraid he is in the verge of becoming a caricature if they don't add some variation to the jokes he is involved in. I've said before how much he irks me when he misbehaves with Amy, but it's not only that, there had been episodes where Amy is not directly involved in the situations,  like Egg Salad,  where I just get tired of him and his attitude, his rudeness (oblivious or not) comes across as forced and over the top for me, and is not funny at all.

 

As many had said, in this last episode, we were supposed to believe, besides his jealousy for Leonard's success, there was also concern for him and fear of living apart of him, well, I have to squint a lot to see it, because nothing of that is clear, not even the jealousy!, he was just there, acting specially obnoxious without a noticeable motivation behind his actions.

 

I don't know what they should do with him, I don't want him to change and I don't think he needs to. Perhaps it's just matter of being more careful with the way they are writting him, to tone down the expression of his worst features, explore different scenarios for him to show his peculiarities without retorting to the same old rude!Sheldon, condescending!Sheldon, selfish!Sheldon, throw-away joke over and over again every episode. They can do it when they really want to.

 

His final scene with Amy in 6x23 is a good example, he never stopped being himself while being involved in something completely alien to him, and the result was touching and funny as well. They were careful enough to leave aside cheap jokes that would had ruin the mood, but things never got overly melodramatic either, and the character showed progression without getting OC.

 

Of course it's not about adding a moral lesson to every episode, the show had never been about that and doesn't have to be, it's about to give the characters new and different opportunities to be funny, I think.

Edited May 22, 2013 by sarah7

[menamena]

I do think that in S07 the TPTB will need to explore Sheldon and Amy's relationship more deeply. So I hope that S07 will be good for the ShAmy.

[vasu]

As many had said, in this last episode, we were supposed to believe, besides his jealousy for Leonard's success, there was also concern for him and fear of living apart of him, well, I have to squint a lot to see it, because nothing of that is clear, not even the jealousy!, he was just there, acting specially obnoxious without a noticeable motivation behind his actions.

I thought jealousy was pretty noticeable motivation behind his actions...and the line "good things are happening to Leonard but not me" clearly supports that..

Anyway Let's just be content with the fact that Sheldon did not tell Leonard that Penny was thinking about breaking-up with him again few months ago in order to stop Leonard from going on the trip....... Sheldon used Leonard's relationship to get what he wants before without thinking how it would effect Leonard in the past...so I guess it was a positive...

[Moonbase]

Sheldon is already a caricature of himself. This is what they have done to this character through lousy writing and trying to force alterations like giving him a sexuality. I don't even think I can bear to watch 7 because they are making him such a fool. He was my favourite character of all time. Now I feel like its just time to switch off and pretend season 7 isn't happening!

[Nogravitasatall]

East coast Australia is just getting caught up. Yay!

[Devashri]

I really hope they bring in more science next season. I totally felt alienated watching season six. It would interesting if sheldon would be able to definitely prove one his theories.

[Fruit Loop]

Lucy is GONE.  Thank The Lord!!!

 

 

I enjoy the nerds but the writers made Lucy more of a mental case than nerd. Maybe that is why I don't care for Raj either. Reading Comic Books and Looking at stars are what nerds do. Not being able to talk in the same room with a women in it, is a Mental case.

 

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