Episodes 6.24 The Bon Voyage Reaction (May 16)

[Moonbase]

I like Shamy for a variety of reasons, and Jim/Sheldon being a cutie is none of them. I mean, yes, I can see he is, but, unlike Amy's situation (the same situation in which a good porcentage of members of this forum are, I see he just doesn't turn my motor on.

 

That aside, regarding Sheldon's abusive behaviour, I agree, it's a complete turn-off, and it also hurts my enjoyment of the character.

I feel the writers had gone too far with his characterization. His aloofness and rudeness feels forced for me now, whereas it used to come across as absolutely natural and funny to me. I also think lacks continuity, because it's not believable his behaviour and level of social awareness varies so much from one episode to another. Before, I used to believe he was just clueless, now, after so many seasons and interaction with his friends, some of his attitudes sound as deliberately cruel for me, therefore, he stops being funny. Of course (and I'm not saying this just as a shipper) I find him even more depicable when he mistreats Amy, because almost every other character just spots him as a lunatic and brush off his insults, but we all know and can see Amy gets hurt, because she is smitten by him.

 

So, dear writers: no, Sheldon jerkassness levels growing exponentially is not getting any funnier.

 

Ironically, while some fans keep pulling their hair out and crying faul because "Sheldon is changing!" and blaming Amy and their relationship for that, as I see it, the problem lies precisely in that fear of "change" the fear of letting him evolve in a natural way. And with "evolve", I'm not saying turning him into a lovely, charming, romantic guy.....come on!, like if that were possible (or desirable) He doesn't have to stop being himself, but I see no use in putting him in situations where he is uncharacteristically nice (to the point of OCness) just to have him being a giant moron next episode, for the sake of the writers sending the message "see? he is still the same!" I'd rather prefer super-slow but stable character development.

 

I think the key is the meaniness, I find Sheldon funny, even if he is being an ass or a nuisance, as long as it's believable he is not being one on purpose, they used to be good at that, now, it seems he actually loves to hurt, the meanier, the better. And at least for me, it doesn't work.

 

Sorry for going OT, seems like I just had a lot of feelings

 

It was just an observation. One half of this forum seems to dedicated to the show, the other seems to dedicated to fawning over the delectable JP. Of course that's not going to apply to everyone, like yourself.

I agree with some of your points though. I posted a year ago that putting Sheldon in a relationship like this (when Amy started wanting more) would make him come across as mean. No one agreed with me, but there you go. Right now, you shamys have nothing to worry about. They are putting her through the fire to create sympathy, so the audience gets annoyed with Sheldon and want him to change. This is a pretty obvious approach I think.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Moonbase

[Berliner]

Yep, Sheldon is the bad guy now. But the thing is, he shouldnt' have been in this situation in the first place.

[BangerMain]

I posted a year ago that putting Sheldon in a relationship like this (when Amy started wanting more) would make him come across as mean. No one agreed with me, but there you go. Right now, you shamys have nothing to worry about. They are putting her through the fire to create sympathy, so the audience gets annoyed with Sheldon and want him to change. This is a pretty obvious approach I think.

I thought you were correct but be careful. I made the comment about how Sheldon has become more childish and cruel since Amy has started to plan for and ask for more of his attention and I got bombed by some Shamys.

 

TPTB are making Amy more sympathetic by having her suffer from Sheldon's caustic and clueless comments to her in silence, mostly. They don't want to have Sheldon be pressured to change too rapidly and we have seen that Amy does change him when she gets upset. So we get the saintly Amy waiting patiently.

Edited May 7, 2013 by BangerMain

[bigbangsheldon]

oh yeah....be careful of those shamys....they bite.     

[Nogravitasatall]

Bigbangsheldon, are you agreeing or biting? I can't tell sometimes. But there should be room for critique of performance or content without feelings getting hurt. Consider the intent of the writer. I feel for Amy and think she gets handed the rough end of the pineapple sometimes. I express that with some trepidation because it criticises Sheldon. I hope she is happier after 6.23 but her needs have not been addressed so much to date.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[bigbangsheldon]

making a sarcastic remark because apparently if one person does something and they just happen to be a shamy fan, we all get grouped and made fun of for, like ever.       

[bigbangsheldon]

just, fyi. i dont have a problem with anyones opinion of the show, or shamy but i have a problem with people insulting people on here and grouping us together and insulting us, it's rude.

[Nogravitasatall]

just, fyi. i dont have a problem with anyones opinion of the show, or shamy but i have a problem with people insulting people on here and grouping us together and insulting us, it's rude.

Then I'd say demonstrate that they are rogue agents. Maybe don't bite on generalisations. I may be specifically a douche (hate that word) and I may favour L/P but not all who favour L/P are douches. I was asked to top myself by one who identifies as a shamy but I don't really think all the shamy cohort want me to top myself. But it happened and I took it personally. Then I see other aggression s being played out and I generalise myself, but I'm trying to stop.

Maybe think Ghandi. Or forgive and move on.

And I like Amy and laugh at Sheldon. I just think he goes too far sometimes and has overstepped without consequence at times. It's just an opinion, not a life threatening statement.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[Moonbase]

I thought you were correct but be careful. I made the comment about how Sheldon has become more childish and cruel since Amy has started to plan for and ask for more of his attention and I got bombed by some Shamys.

 

TPTB are making Amy more sympathetic by having her suffer from Sheldon's caustic and clueless comments to her in silence, mostly. They don't want to have Sheldon be pressured to change too rapidly and we have seen that Amy does change him when she gets upset. So we get the saintly Amy waiting patiently.

 

The interesting thing is... I posted that this relationship was going to make Sheldon appear meaner after 'The Weekend Vortex' which aired in March last year. I also wrote that a Sheldon backlash would begin. No one replied.

 

The writers have him seesawing back and forward right now. They want to please everyone but that won't be possible forever.

[phantagrae]

I don't have a problem with the ups and downs of the Shamy or of Sheldon.  And I don't feel like the writers are trying to "make" Amy a sympathetic or pitied creature.

 

I think that the way Amy has been evolving all along has created for her plenty of admiration/sympathy without making her an object of pity, even if some people are prone to say "poor Amy!" all the time.

 

Amy knows what kind of a person Sheldon is--she was attracted to him even before he even knew he was attracted to her, she agreed to be his girlfriend when he could barely bring himself to ask her properly without her prompting him, she signed a 31-page agreement that restricted their relationship in all kinds of ways.

Though she is inexperienced, she's not an idiot.

And she has professed to admiring his quirks and idiosyncracies.  There's part of her that's just as rude and blunt as him.

 

Yeah, Sheldon can be rude and selfish and self-focused.  And yes, that aspect can wax and wane, but it's not as if hasn't been like that from the beginning.  Sometimes he's rude and dismissive toward Penny and sometimes he's helpful and even almost supportive.  He's condescending to Leonard, but he's also very attached to him and looks out for him at times.  He's the one who came up with a solution to keep Raj from being deported, he tried to fix his blunder with Howard's security clearance.

Yeah, he's not very good at being thoughful, but that's who he is.

And learning how to be consistent at it with Amy is probably always going to be difficult for him.

 

So, I don't have a problem with his cranky, snappy attitude.  While it does seem to hurt Amy, she doesn't seem to hate him for it.  And I don't think she necessarily takes it lying down, either.  When it comes down to brass tacks, she puts her foot down and reads him the riot act.  And he knows that he doesn't want to lose her, he just doesn't always know how to watch his mouth.

 

Their relationship isn't ever going to be all hearts and flowers and lovey-dovey cooing, and I'm okay with that.  I don't mind prickly people or prickly situations and I don't think that the things that Sheldon says are intended to offend or hurt Amy.  He's just blunt and has little or no filter most of the time.  Just as he talks about his bowel movements with free abandon, whatever he thinks rolls out of his mouth without the thought that it might be offensive.

 

If you look at L&P when they were going through their Beta Test, there was a lot of stuff on their bug reports that are the kind of things that Sheldon might say out loud, and L&P were thinking of those things and hadn't mentioned them to each other until it came to the bug reports (wearing too-high heels, making sloppy noises during kissing, etc.)

 

Sheldon is the sort of person who will say such things upfront and out loud.  That's always been his nature.

[Nogravitasatall]

moonbase, do remember sheldon's line about i think visionary vs crazy? And the fine line between.

You were then one but maybe perceived as the other.

s7 has a lot of expectations loaded on it, following

this pivotal denoument arc from say the appearance of Lucy onwards. Much retooling is in the offing. As a pessimist id say brace now for maybe just being whelmed. If you are still in for s7 that is.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[Moonbase]

moonbase, do remember sheldon's line about i think visionary vs crazy? And the fine line between.

You were then one but maybe perceived as the other.

s7 has a lot of expectations loaded on it, following

this pivotal denoument arc from say the appearance of Lucy onwards. Much retooling is in the offing. As a pessimist id say brace now for maybe just being whelmed. If you are still in for s7 that is.

 

I think a good many people on this forum can see an obvious story arc when they see one. When you have a character, who you wish to take from one point to another, there's always a plan. Next season, I'm approaching with caution.

[AdorkablyMe]

Fascinating.

[Nogravitasatall]

Fascinating.

and enigmatic. Not really an active contribution.

... Are you spock, nimoy, quinto, sheldon or just easily fascinated? cos not a lot happened here. lol

Edited May 8, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[Nogravitasatall]

I think a good many people on this forum can see an obvious story arc when they see one. When you have a character, who you wish to take from one point to another, there's always a plan. Next season, I'm approaching with caution.

and you got me worried about the L/P heat, but i'm going to coast on that till next season. Maybe they will amp it up. I predicted a solitary trip for Leonard, but i thought it would be to somewhere hot.

[hamerman55]

I think the last two episodes are focused on making two points. First, Sheldon knows where the Shamy has to go and is OK with it. Sort of like last year's finale with Sheldon reaching for Amy's hand. It was interesting that Amy made the point in "The Spoiler Alert Segmentation" that she replace Leonard as roommate. She was not discussing an increase in intimacy.

Second, Penny and Leonard are solid enough to handle an extended separation. Sure, they don't want to be apart, but both are confident that the other will be there and it will be fine.

My thoughts on next year remind me of the ending of "Superbad". The principle source of conflict will be separating Sheldon and Leonard.

A second source of stress will be career, as Sheldon is not doing well, Leonard is taking off, and tenure is at stake.

[Nogravitasatall]

I think the last two episodes are focused on making two points. First, Sheldon knows where the Shamy has to go and is OK with it. Sort of like last year's finale with Sheldon reaching for Amy's hand. It was interesting that Amy made the point in "The Spoiler Alert Segmentation" that she replace Leonard as roommate. She was not discussing an increase in intimacy.

Second, Penny and Leonard are solid enough to handle an extended separation. Sure, they don't want to be apart, but both are confident that the other will be there and it will be fine.

My thoughts on next year remind me of the ending of "Superbad". The principle source of conflict will be separating Sheldon and Leonard.

A second source of stress will be career, as Sheldon is not doing well, Leonard is taking off, and tenure is at stake.

nice synopsis. I would like them to pitch L/P a liitle harder is all. Pitch as in sell. From time to time, when they can squeeze in the hero, so to speak.

[sarah7]

I wonder why so many people get so easily scared by Shamys, are we really that bad? are all the others too sensitive?

It surprises me, because in my experience, of all the fandoms I've ever been part of (or just witnessed), I find Shamy to be perhaps the most level-headed, varied, analytical, thoughtful and quite respectful, to be honest.

It amuses me when, as bigbangsheldon says, outsiders tend to group us all and imply we are a giant squeeing and agressive entity.

Anyway.

Now, back to the (off-topic) topic, while I strongly dislike Sheldon's behaviour when is taken to extremes, I don't think he is being a jerk the whole time, in fact, I apprecciate the efforts he is doing in order to the relationship to be more fullfilling for Amy (even if they seem to be almost inperceptible). And I don't think he forcefully needed to become the "villain" of the relationship. As I said in my previous post, my problem is with the exaggeration of his bad qualities (or as we love to call them: "quirks"), most of the times, for the sake of supposed comedy.

 

I agree with Phantagrae, I know how Sheldon is, I know he is selfish, childish, condescending, and a long exasperating etc., I don't want him to radically change, and I don't want or need Shamy to be all unicorns and rainbows and puppy love,

 

I said it before, I know in fiction, conflict is neccesary, but not in exchange of denigrating the characters or the essence of the dynamic between them. I don't care just for the result, I also care about the road that takes us there.

 

Speaking in examples, I don't mind Sheldon saying out loud he prefers to spend a weekend gaming with his friends than attending social gatherings with his girlfriend, I don't mind their quarrels over wich one's field of study is better, I don't mind they having different hobbies or interests, I even understand the psichological reason behind him despising everything conventionally "romantic", such as dinner dates or anniversary celebrations.

 

Now, Sheldon expressing discomfort or boredom over spending time with Amy (even in ocassions not  relationship-related), demeaning her to the point of saying she could serve him only as a driver, treating her more as a fangirl than as his equal (remember: "she is the person most alike me I've ever met"?)

THAT's going overboard, it's not true, because it contradicts the fundation of their relationship, paints Sheldon under an awful light, lacks continuity (Sheldon doesn't need to love Biology to appreciate when a biology-related fact is interesting, just remember how enthusiastic he used to be about her performing surgery to herself or her work with animals), it's unnecessary, because contributes nothing to the plot and it's not even funny.

 

That's what I'm talking about.

Edited May 8, 2013 by sarah7

[hamerman55]

nice synopsis. I would like them to pitch L/P a liitle harder is all. Pitch as in sell. From time to time, when they can squeeze in the hero, so to speak.

I'm with you there. L/P have been averaging eight minutes an episode, when they are doing something big. Many episodes don't give them any meaningful interaction. They are just present in the scene. Even when they threw a party, it still had no real chance for them to interact. I don't think they should juggle three plot lines with 19-21 minutes per episode.

The writers do seem to space things out a bit with them too. There was a long period after Penny said ILY before Leonard and Penny even seemed to talk. It would be cute to have Leonard get involved with Penny's acting, like help her run lines. Maybe even use that to escalate the relationship.

[Nogravitasatall]

sie sind nicht sehr schlect aber du bist (?)

sarah7

there is a collective apprehension, i think... And maybe some sensitivity. Its meant to be a fun preoccupation not a contact sport. But im off the soapbox now.

[Chrismo]

I wonder why so many people get so easily scared by Shamys, are we really that bad? are all the others too sensitive?

It surprises me, because in my experience, of all the fandoms I've ever been part of (or just witnessed), I find Shamy to be perhaps the most level-headed, varied, analytical, thoughtful and quite respectful, to be honest.

It amuses me when, as bigbangsheldon says, outsiders tend to group us all and imply we are a giant squeeing and agressive entity.

 

So does that mean all the Lenny fans are disrespectful, not level headed, unvaried, non-analytical, thoughtless and not respectful?

Part of the problem is a few of the Shamys go crazy if you say something negative about the Shamy. It seems they take it personally like your saying something bad about a family member. I made a comment in another forum that the Shamys tend to be judged by a few bad apples and was told by many Shamys that was how racism started. Matter of fact there is one Shamy that stated she hates Penny/Kaley. Your fellow Shamy's were all right with that but had a problem with me. Now I find that amusing. 

[Moonbase]

Talking about a canon couple is fairly easy. The raw material is right there. Making a case for a non-canon couple, now that's challenging. I have visited the shamy thread many times and I don't find the conversations, any more elevated than any other ship. In fact Lenny threads seems more level headed IMO.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Moonbase

[Nogravitasatall]

you dont read all my posts then. Lol

[Moonbase]

you dont read all my posts then. Lol

 

I never understand your posts

[Nogravitasatall]

me neither.