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6.24 The Bon Voyage Reaction (May 16)

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Ahhhhhh, I see it that it's time for Kutra's monthly one note "I hate Penny" rant.

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Ahhhhhh, I see it that it's time for Kutra's monthly one note "I hate Penny" rant.

"Monthly"? ;)

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2

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"Monthly"? ;)

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2

Wishful thinking on @Tensor's part.

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Just read Simon Helborg's interview where he says that there will be something in tomorrow night's episode. I didn't get anything from the taping report other than it looked like a good episode for a season finale. Any body heard anything?

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Oh boy , this episode has not even aired , yet we are on the ninth page and that too this is an episode with no breaks in previous weeks lol.....

 

 

The red-shirt comment, I don't think it's a break in continuity. Sheldon's explaining how when he *first* meets people he pretends they are ST characters to cope with his social awkwardness (he is giving tips to Raj about how Lucy could meet them), so when he first met Leonard he was an unnamed red shirt. Yes, he's being condescending and irritating after that, but Sheldon is like that, he's not going to change overnight. We also know from the past though that he likes to mask what he's really feeling with excuses, like the first time they had a fight and Leonard ended up ignoring him and spending time at Penny's during the blackout: Sheldon missed him but wouldn't admit it.

 

Sheldon missed Leonard ..... hmmm...... I thought Sheldon missed a baby-sitter who would chauffeur him around.... It was clear that he would not have cared about Leonard if Stuart or any other week willed friend would have chauffeured him around.....and even if we ignore all this ....when Leonard agrees to come back  all he could give Leonard was a crummy card on his day ...then it clearly shows what was he missing on....

 

so Sheldon was not missing Leonard as a friend , Sheldon the bully or the baby was missing Leonard(or anyone) the wimp or baby-sitter......

Edited by vasu

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Just read Simon Helborg's interview where he says that there will be something in tomorrow night's episode. I didn't get anything from the taping report other than it looked like a good episode for a season finale. Any body heard anything?

 

Yes, but spoilers are forbidden in this thread.  It was in the taping report, you probably just didn't realize that's what Simon was talking about.  I'll PM you with the information.

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Guest DroneInTheSun

Well Leonard gets a major professional boost.Looks like all the characters except the failed "actress" / waitress are doing great in their careers.

 

That's not completely true. Amy was kicked off her addiction study for unprofessionnal behaviour and last time we heard of Sheldon's work, he was second best to Kripke. And Penny did give an impressive theatre performance in The Monster Isolation.

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Oh boy , this episode has not even aired , yet we are on the ninth page and that too this is an episode with no breaks in previous weeks lol.....

 

 

 

Sheldon missed Leonard ..... hmmm...... I thought Sheldon missed a baby-sitter who would chauffeur him around.... It was clear that he would not have cared about Leonard if Stuart or any other week willed friend would have chauffeured him around.....and even if we ignore all this ....when Leonard agrees to come back  all he could give Leonard was a crummy card on his day ...then it clearly shows what was he missing on....

 

so Sheldon was not missing Leonard as a friend , Sheldon the bully or the baby was missing Leonard(or anyone) the wimp or baby-sitter......

 

Sheldon always masks his deeper emotion inside his arrogant approach.  It's most obvious in the episode where he's trying to keep Leonard from attending Wil Wheaton's party.  When Leonard and Raj first leave for the party, Sheldon's all arrogant about how Leonard will regret becoming Sheldon's "enemy" by choosing Wheaton over him, but when Leonard returns (to tell him about Brent Spiner being at the party), his first reaction was joy when he thought that Leonard had returned to pick Sheldon over Wheaton.  "Oh, good, you picked me, you picked me!"

His pride keeps him from saying what he really feels, so he comes up with all kinds of convoluted ways to avoid saying, "please don't leave me" or whatever.

 

The business about the card was Sheldon again masking his feelings with his typical arrogance.  It's much easier for him to fall back on that type of response than to admit the depth of his feelings.

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Sheldon always masks his deeper emotion inside his arrogant approach.  It's most obvious in the episode where he's trying to keep Leonard from attending Wil Wheaton's party.  When Leonard and Raj first leave for the party, Sheldon's all arrogant about how Leonard will regret becoming Sheldon's "enemy" by choosing Wheaton over him, but when Leonard returns (to tell him about Brent Spiner being at the party), his first reaction was joy when he thought that Leonard had returned to pick Sheldon over Wheaton.  "Oh, good, you picked me, you picked me!"

His pride keeps him from saying what he really feels, so he comes up with all kinds of convoluted ways to avoid saying, "please don't leave me" or whatever.

 

The business about the card was Sheldon again masking his feelings with his typical arrogance.  It's much easier for him to fall back on that type of response than to admit the depth of his feelings.

 

What I'm saying is it was clear from that episode that if any other friend had agreed to chaufffeur him around , he would not have cared about Leonard...

 

Just like when Raj came to live in his apartment after Leonard started living with Priya .... it was clear that Sheldon was more than happy to have Raj as his roommate...and it was clear that he was not missing Leonard and neither wanted him back....

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Sheldon always masks his deeper emotion inside his arrogant approach.  It's most obvious in the episode where he's trying to keep Leonard from attending Wil Wheaton's party.  When Leonard and Raj first leave for the party, Sheldon's all arrogant about how Leonard will regret becoming Sheldon's "enemy" by choosing Wheaton over him, but when Leonard returns (to tell him about Brent Spiner being at the party), his first reaction was joy when he thought that Leonard had returned to pick Sheldon over Wheaton.  "Oh, good, you picked me, you picked me!"

His pride keeps him from saying what he really feels, so he comes up with all kinds of convoluted ways to avoid saying, "please don't leave me" or whatever.

 

The business about the card was Sheldon again masking his feelings with his typical arrogance.  It's much easier for him to fall back on that type of response than to admit the depth of his feelings.

 

I absolutely agree.  I think it's high praise and evidence of affection toward someone if Sheldon doesn't go out of his way to avoid him or her.  That's why it's so touching when he shows even a minor overt sign of affection for anyone.  Sheldon has shown these signs of affection for Leonard a few times, which is plenty to demonstrate his loyalty.

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Looking forward to the Sheldon and Penny scenes, even though Sheldon looks dead grumpy in the promo. It reminds me of the other grocery scene these two did, S1. Ep4.

Edited by Clover

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It is hard say who is more emotionally constipated - Sheldon or Penny - over the course of the show. Penny really has been crazy about Leonard since the early part of the first season. I feel the problem in "The Wheaton Recurrance" isn't that Penny doesn't love Leonard, it is that she is afraid of the fact that she does and is afraid to give into it. This season really is about Penny giving into her feelings. Sheldon feels quite strongly about Amy and Leonard. Every time there is a threat to his relationship with either, perceived or otherwise, he reacts. The rest of the time he acts just like he does with his mother. "The Rhinitus" episode sot of laid it all out for me. In many respects, he is still about eight.

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Well as you may have guessed my feelings are very different. I just don't think it takes that long, to know if you love someone or not. The whole story line was too stretched out and they never really explained why she didn't commit sooner. Its not like Leonard isn't a nice guy.

Edited by Clover
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I agree with you. She really knows she loves Leonard, but for a variety of reasons she avoids giving in to those feelings. Note that Penny told Alex she and Leonard "were involved in a five year experiment". Tacitly, she admits she has had strong feelings for Leonard since the first season. I think she was always insecure in her relationship with Leonard. Since she defined herself according to her beauty, she believes that is the only thing she has to offer Leonard. Alex was the perfect nightmare for her. Arguably as pretty as Penny, but highly accomplished as a scientist and raised in scientific culture. And interested enough in Leonard to hit on him multiple times, including asking him straight out on a date knowing he was with Penny.

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They use jealous in this relationship, as proof of love. It doesn't mean love if someone is jealous it means insecurity. The last time he went away she missed him though. They are probably going to use this same tactic again. I don't know, Leonard and Penny are a weird one because they should be more solid by now. Next season looks very predictable, all the relationships will move forward. Of course being a shenny, I'm not massively excited about that.

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Guest DroneInTheSun

It is hard say who is more emotionally constipated - Sheldon or Penny - over the course of the show.

 

Stefi62 from the other forum sums it up beautifully: Someone pointed out that Sheldon and Penny are somehow a bit similar with their fear of commitment. But I think that while Penny fears commitment for long term, and is okay with the intensity, Sheldon is okay with the long term (his beloved homeostasis need would be fulfilled) but has problems with the intensity. Which is totally consistent with their respective personalities: Sheldon is a person of habits and he fears change more than anything else, Penny is a spontaneous character and fears being trapped in a permanent situation.

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Stefi62 from the other forum sums it up beautifully: Someone pointed out that Sheldon and Penny are somehow a bit similar with their fear of commitment. But I think that while Penny fears commitment for long term, and is okay with the intensity, Sheldon is okay with the long term (his beloved homeostasis need would be fulfilled) but has problems with the intensity. Which is totally consistent with their respective personalities: Sheldon is a person of habits and he fears change more than anything else, Penny is a spontaneous character and fears being trapped in a permanent situation.

 

That's wonderfully written, but the word intensity doesn't really mean anything here. Penny is happy with what intensity exactly? Surely not emotional intensity, she backs away from that. Intensity can simple be replaced with sex. I do think that Sheldon and Penny are similar in their approach to their relationships. Both of them like homeostatus.

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They use jealous in this relationship, as proof of love. It doesn't mean love if someone is jealous it means insecurity. The last time he went away she missed him though. They are probably going to use this same tactic again. I don't know, Leonard and Penny are a weird one because they should be more solid by now. Next season looks very predictable, all the relationships will move forward. Of course being a shenny, I'm not massively excited about that.

 

You seem to be forgetting the fact that Penny has finally been able to admit that she loves Leonard and that she has been insecure about what she has to offer.

I think that she has begun to realize over the years--and especially this season--that even though Leonard was never the kind of guy she thought she'd love because he isn't like all the other guys she has dated, that he really is the guy for her.  She just had to grow up and realize that sex isn't the same as love, that looks aren't the same as attraction, that love isn't always about "sparks", but is often just comfortable and steady.

Leonard has loved her more than the other girls he's dated, which, IMO, is why he never wanted to cut Penny out of his life.  Even when he seemed to be in love with Priya, he wasn't ready to let Penny go and still went to her for help.  And when Priya went back to India, he was pretty easily tempted by that Alice girl (or whatever her name was) which meant he wasn't really all that in love with Priya after all.

 

At any rate, whatever their ups and downs have been, they've clearly realized that their true love lies with each other and Penny has finally listened to her heart, not her head, or has made her head finally understand what her heart was trying to say all along.

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That's wonderfully written, but the word intensity doesn't really mean anything here. Penny is happy with what intensity exactly? Surely not emotional intensity, she backs away from that. Intensity can simple be replaced with sex. I do think that Sheldon and Penny are similar in their approach to their relationships. Both of them like homeostatus.

 

I think Stefi's fruit analogy better explains the differences between them.  Penny is like a peach and Sheldon is like a coconut:

 

Think of a peach. Its soft flesh makes it easy to cut: which metaphorically means that it’s easy to make entry into the life of a "peach" person, though not too deeply, as you’ll soon run into the pit.

The coconut is hard to crack. Once you’re in, though, you’re in, you have total access to the flesh, to its heart. With the "coconut" people, relationships are hard to get going, but once they’re going, they go deep.

 

And Lucy1984 took it a little further:

 

Sheldon has a pronounced loyalty to people he is close to, like Leonard. Penny and Amy, and still maintains a deep affection for his grandmother. He's not the type to let go of people- the Santa Simulation episode dealt with how hard that is for him.

Penny, by contrast finds it easy to connect with anyone on a casual basis, but is very hard to get close too- it took Leonard several tries get through that tough (inner) exterior.

It makes me think about Leonard versus Amy as characters, however I do think those two are similar in many ways- the way they love borders on adoration, and they both seem more vulnerable, without the emotional defenses of either a Sheldon or a Penny style. Maybe they are both like a fruit that is soft all the way through?

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You seem to be forgetting the fact that Penny has finally been able to admit that she loves Leonard and that she has been insecure about what she has to offer.

I think that she has begun to realize over the years--and especially this season--that even though Leonard was never the kind of guy she thought she'd love because he isn't like all the other guys she has dated, that he really is the guy for her.  She just had to grow up and realize that sex isn't the same as love, that looks aren't the same as attraction, that love isn't always about "sparks", but is often just comfortable and steady.

Leonard has loved her more than the other girls he's dated, which, IMO, is why he never wanted to cut Penny out of his life.  Even when he seemed to be in love with Priya, he wasn't ready to let Penny go and still went to her for help.  And when Priya went back to India, he was pretty easily tempted by that Alice girl (or whatever her name was) which meant he wasn't really all that in love with Priya after all.

 

At any rate, whatever their ups and downs have been, they've clearly realized that their true love lies with each other and Penny has finally listened to her heart, not her head, or has made her head finally understand what her heart was trying to say all along.

 

But they dragged this out soooo long, I just don't think all of the fans are feeling it? Penny went through the jealous thing with Priya and then fell back into her usual behavour. It should have stopped then. I think this is who Penny really is! She can't help it. I am willing to bet, they will bring her old feelings back just when we think she is settled.

 

I don't really understand why you posted the other posts but,

 

Sheldon has what Penny lacks and visa versa. That is part of the reason they appeal to so much to me. They offer each other, something the other doesn't have.

Edited by Clover

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Wow those are some wonderful analogies that you reported Phanta!!! Spot on!!

 

Re: Penny, I totally agree that she didn't really know what being in a loving committed relationship was until Leonard, so of course if sex and superficial relationship is all she's ever been used to she will struggle to recognize a more serious, committed feeling that is not all adrenaline and hormones as love. That was the whole point of the speech she made in 6x02 to Amy and Bernadette: "I've been in love before, but it felt different. Maybe this is a new, boring, kind of love." So while they dragged it out for a long time because it is a tv show after all, and that's what they do, I don't think it was so unrealistic. Penny and Leonard have been back together for a little over a year now, and she had a lot of soul-searching to do still to figure out how to approach love as a grown up, not a kid. 

 

I like where they've taken Penny this season, and I hope they will continue to build on that. 

 

 

I don't really understand why you posted the other posts but,

 

Sheldon has what Penny lacks and visa versa. That is part of the reason they appeal to so much to me. They offer each other, something the other doesn't have.

 

 

Leonard provides Penny with what she never had in her previous relationships: commitment, stability, a way to grow up as a person. Penny provides Leonard with what he's always craved the most: affection, warmth and physicality and someone he can take care of. 

 

With Sheldon and Penny there is no exchange of anything because they both lack what the other needs: Sheldon needs intellectual companionship and Penny needs physicality. There is no exchange to be had there because Sheldon doesn't care about getting physical with someone who he has no mental connection to and Penny does not care about having a relationship of the mind with someone who doesn't want to be physical. The only way they can get what they lack is via someone who intrigues them on the level that they already know how to function at: Amy challenges Sheldon intellectually enough for him to want to give intimacy a try and Leonard gives Penny enough passion and affection for her to want to grow up and mature. 

 

I just don't understand how Sheldon and Penny could ever work. I can't even imagine what their relationship would be like: no communication and no sex. What would they do all day? 

Edited by koops
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What I'm saying is it was clear from that episode that if any other friend had agreed to chaufffeur him around , he would not have cared about Leonard...

 

Just like when Raj came to live in his apartment after Leonard started living with Priya .... it was clear that Sheldon was more than happy to have Raj as his roommate...and it was clear that he was not missing Leonard and neither wanted him back....

 

I'm sure he would have found plenty to complain about with Raj if the situation had gone on long enough.  It was the set-up for the moment (which led to Penny and Raj sleeping together) and in the end Sheldon always comes back to Leonard.

 

Yes, much of how he treats Leonard on the surface is selfish, but underneath it all, Sheldon truly does consider him his best friend and will freely say so.

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I like where they've taken Penny this season, and I hope they will continue to build on that. 

 

Oh god I don't. Penny is not in a good place. She drinks too much and tells stories about men. She had one positive thing happen, the play. But her life is stagnating. She's still waitressing after 6 years and thinks she's going to be a movie star because of a pyshic's message.

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I'm sure he would have found plenty to complain about with Raj if the situation had gone on long enough.  It was the set-up for the moment (which led to Penny and Raj sleeping together) and in the end Sheldon always comes back to Leonard.

 

Yes, much of how he treats Leonard on the surface is selfish, but underneath it all, Sheldon truly does consider him his best friend and will freely say so.

 

So now those scenes mean nothing because they were set up for something else....hmmmmm... why i am not surprised...

 

I agree that Sheldon considers Leonard his best friend ( his own words) ..but the situations I quoted previously never looked like Sheldon and Leonard were friends ...they were a pair of a bully and a wimp....

Edited by vasu
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But they dragged this out soooo long, I just don't think all of the fans are feeling it? Penny went through the jealous thing with Priya and then fell back into her usual behavour. It should have stopped then. I think this is who Penny really is! She can't help it. I am willing to bet, they will bring her old feelings back just when we think she is settled.

 

I don't really understand why you posted the other posts but,

 

Sheldon has what Penny lacks and visa versa. That is part of the reason they appeal to so much to me. They offer each other, something the other doesn't have.

 

The reason the L/P romance has been drawn out is that this is a TV series, not a movie.  The ups and downs of their relationship is one of the main pillars of the show that was set up in the Pilot.  Will Leonard and Penny become a couple so that Leonard's dream of "smart and beautiful" babies will come true?  It has to be ongoing because to wrap it up right away would be like giving Sheldon a Nobel prize in the 2nd season.

The growth of their relationship is going to be an ongoing saga and yes, Penny is finally starting to grow up.

 

But she and Sheldon do not have what each other lacks.  Leonard provides more of what Penny needs than does Sheldon.  Leonard offers her stability and acceptance and he's not afraid to wait for her to mature and realize that being in a long-term, steady committed relationship is nothing to fear.  And Penny has always loved Leonard.

 

Sheldon doesn't want whatever it is that Penny has.  Amy is the one to whom he is drawn because she is someone who speaks the same language as him.  She is the one person who truly understands him, quirks and all.  Amy is the one person he can truly open up to--as he finally did in the bedroom scene in Love Spell.  While he has shared personal things with Leonard and Penny, they are like siblings to him, and oftentimes like parents, Amy is the one to whom he has truly opened his heart.  She cracked his coconut without him even realizing it, initially.  I think she cracked it in that first meeting in the coffee shop.

 

At any rate, Sheldon and Penny have never been--and never will be--romantically or sexually attracted to each other.

 

Yes, the characters have great friend/enemy antagonistic chemistry together--kudos to the writers and to Jim and Kaley for created that energy--but they do not have sexual or romantic connections.

 

Penny loves Leonard and Leonard loves Penny.

Sheldon loves Amy and Amy loves Sheldon (though they're still working on articulating those feelings.)

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